Originally Posted by
P1LGR1M
The teaching is clearly the physical destruction of unbelievers in the Tribulation and when Christ returns. You charge me with ignoring but I have not ignored anything.
Perhaps you can wow yourself into actually addressing that passage itself.
God bless.
I see.
So you maintain that lot was left behind,but the wicked were taken.
Not sure why you are having a hard time understanding that the passage deals with those taken in judgment, other than what is obvious...that you merge and blend teachings to the point where each teaching loses it's meaning.
So let's look at the specific teaching:
Luke 17:26-37
King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]26 [/SUP]And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
As in v.30, in view is the Return of Christ, which is to take place at the end of the Tribulation. The days of Noah were, like the Tribulation, a day of judgment upon the wicked. When the Lord Returns the first things He does is destroy the wicked which have gathered for war. So we understand the references to Noah and Lot to refer to judgment of the wicked.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
These were taken in judgment, just as the Lord concludes this teaching, saying that those taken will be carcasses.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
[SUP]29 [/SUP]But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
Again, His point is not that Lot escaped, but that the wicked are destroyed.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
The "even thus" is tied to what He just said, Popeye...people will be destroyed.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]Remember Lot's wife.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
Those, like Lot's wife, who give more thought to their physical possessions, will perish,
be destroyed...just like Lot's wife.
This is not a Rapture teaching, it is a teaching that consists of people in the Tribulation. The Rapture has already taken place.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
[SUP]35 [/SUP]Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
[SUP]36 [/SUP]Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
[SUP]37[/SUP]And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.
Now if you have a Scriptural reference that associates eagles with the Saints, please feel free to present it.
If you care to see a reference that associates fowl with people in a context of judgment, though, you can consider these:
Ezekiel 39
King James Version (KJV)
1 Therefore, thou son of man, prophesy against Gog, and say, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee, and will cause thee to come up from the north parts, and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel:
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And I will smite thy bow out of thy left hand, and will cause thine arrows to fall out of thy right hand.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy bands, and the people that is with thee: I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Thou shalt fall upon the open field: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord God.
Revelation 19:17-21
King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
[SUP]18 [/SUP]That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
You maintain that baby Jesus was left behind,but the wicked children were taken
I have no clue how the Lord as a baby is relevant to the teaching. Perhaps you could quote what I have said that causes you to draw this conclusion, or, since nothing I have said confuses the Rapture with the Tribulation passages as you do, perhaps you could simply clue me in to what it is you have in mind.
I won't even mention Noah,
Too late: you already err by equating Noah's deliverance to the Rapture.
The Ark was not Christ and Noah's salvation was only physical. Just like Lot's salvation was only physical.
The difference between those two events and the Rapture is that all who participate in the Rapture are eternally redeemed born again believers who are instantaneously transformed from physical believers to believers physically resurrected.
There is no comparison between those Raptured and Noah, Lot, or those who live through the Tribulation, who are not resurrected at the end of the Tribulation unless they have died during the Tribulation.
or the 5wise virgins(both taken into a structure FIRST),
The Structure is the Kingdom of Heaven, which is the Millennial Kingdom, not Heaven itself:
Matthew 25:1; 10-11
King James Version (KJV)
1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
We can cross reference His statement here with...
Matthew 7:22-23
King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
due to the ridiculous disguises NEEDED to cancel those no brainers.
The fact that no thought has been given to it is clear, lol.
I realize you can't biblically reconcile that wicked taken first nonsense,
Sure I can. It is very simple if we properly identify the group that is in view.
Just like everything in Matthew 24 is given for those who are in the Tribulation, so is this teaching.
In the Tribulation, there is the possibility of physical death for the believer, there is no such fear for believers in the Rapture, but the opposite, they are resurrected physically.
You are the one imposing into the Context Rapture teaching, which I will remind you was a mystery at the time of the Lord's teaching here, something not yet revealed. It is revealed by Paul here:
1 Corinthians 15:50-53
King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]50 [/SUP]Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
[SUP]51 [/SUP]Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
[SUP]52 [/SUP]In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
[SUP]53 [/SUP]For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
Most people understood the foundational teaching of resurrection as taught in the Old Testament and by Christ, but, they were not aware of the glorified Saint and the distinction between them and the wicked who will also be resurrected into bodies suitable for the eternal punishment they receive.
So let's not try to impose something into the Lord's teaching that isn't there, especially when He is so clear that physical destruction is in view.
The days of Noah and Lot were days of physical destruction upon physical people, just as there will be physical destruction upon the wicked of this world who, like the wicked of Noah and Lot's day...rejected the will of God.
but you need to stop,because YOU UNWITTINGLY STRIKE GODS CHARACTER,AS IF HE WOULD DO SUCH A THING
What I need to stop is Pre-Tribulation believers like you who have such a horrible approach to exegesis that they give Post-Tribulation and A-Millennial believers many reasons to deny the clearly taught Pre-Tribulation Rapture of the Church.
Your attitude is very much like theirs, and seems more the whining of a small child upset that his favorite stuffed toy has been taken away than someone trying to debate Biblical Doctrine.
You quote one thing I have said that in any way detracts from the Holy Character of God, my friend, and we will discuss it.
God bless.