I want to understand the Catholic faith so....

[Vdp]

I do not agree with everything you are saying epostle.

I attend a Catholic Church. My whole family attends Catholic Churches. There are some of us in the Catholic Church that do not believe that Mary was sinless. I personally do not accept the doctrines of Mary. And yet i still am a Catholic.

I totally believe we are to study the Bible first to see what God says. There has been too many changes to the Catholic Church and changes not for the better.

 

[epostle]

You are pulling the old "bait-and-switch" here. I never said "good" works are bad, I said Catholics work to receive and maintain their salvation - which is absolutely Catholic dogma. You can deny it all you want, but your "church" teaches that fact repeatedly.

If that were true, someone would have proven it by now. Jesus and Paul never ripped love (good works) from faith but you manage to. That's your error and it's anti-biblical. Please cite the "works" dogma. All Catholic teaching is available to the public. If you are going to repeat the same LIE after faith/good works has been explained to you 100 times, I will send you to my ignorasium and play with the Whore-duh-Babble-on psychos.

Without the Mass your sins cannot be forgiven, because Jesus is offered daily as the same sacrifice for sins as He offered on the cross. Without the Confessional Booth your sins cannot be forgiven because your "church" teaches you must perform penance to receive forgiveness.

That's 3 topics. If you have questions about the Mass, I would be happy to answer them, but don't bash out of ignorance. In a court of law, restitution is demanded to make up for loss, theft or damage. A person who steals a car has to give it back. That's what penance is. You rail against things you know nothing about, or you judge Catholicism based on funnymentalist hate speech.

Your own Catechism and rulings from the Council of Trent proclaim that if anyone denies these things they are "anathema" - which means they are damned.

No, that is not what anathema means.

And don't try word substitution when it comes to the Sacraments. Whether you say they are "received" rather than performed makes no difference - without them, you are eternally lost - which contradicts the Bible teaching that salvation is a gift that cannot be earned in any way.

Does that include the Sacrament of Matrimony? The Anointing of the Sick? When you WANT to know what Catholics REALLY believe, and discover for yourself how much you have been LIED TO about the sacraments, read this link. Biblical Evidence for Catholicism: Sacramentalism Until you do, I'll not try to give something to a person with their hands clenched in fists.

Roman Catholicism is indeed a works-based, pagan religion.

May the Holy Spirit heal you of your blind prejudice.

 

[Magenta]

I attend a Catholic Church. My whole family attends Catholic Churches. There are some of us in the Catholic Church that do not believe that Mary was sinless. I personally do not accept the doctrines of Mary. And yet i still am a Catholic.

As a Catholic, you are bound to accept the infallible dogmas.

Also: Why attend a church that teaches heresies?

 

[Vdp]

As a Catholic I am bound to follow Jesus. Not Jesus and Mary. There are many issues i do not agree with in the Catholic Church.

I stay in the Church because my friends and family are in the Church. If i was outside the Catholic Church they would not listen to what God has said in the Bible. I stay to bring the Gospel of Salvation to my family and friends.

 

[PennEd]

If that were true, someone would have proven it by now. Jesus and Paul never ripped love (good works) from faith but you manage to. That's your error and it's anti-biblical. Please cite the "works" dogma. All Catholic teaching is available to the public. If you are going to repeat the same LIE after faith/good works has been explained to you 100 times, I will send you to my ignorasium and play with the Whore-duh-Babble-on psychos.



That's 3 topics. If you have questions about the Mass, I would be happy to answer them, but don't bash out of ignorance. In a court of law, restitution is demanded to make up for loss, theft or damage. A person who steals a car has to give it back. That's what penance is. You rail against things you know nothing about, or you judge Catholicism based on funnymentalist hate speech.

No, that is not what anathema means.

Does that include the Sacrament of Matrimony? The Anointing of the Sick? When you WANT to know what Catholics REALLY believe, and discover for yourself how much you have been LIED TO about the sacraments, read this link. Biblical Evidence for Catholicism: Sacramentalism Until you do, I'll not try to give something to a person with their hands clenched in fists.

May the Holy Spirit heal you of your blind prejudice.

There are MANY works to get and keep salvation doctrines in Catholicism.

But indulgences, which still goes on today in the form of mass cards one must BUY, to keep the supreme heresy of Purgatory cannot be double-talked away.

I say this to those honest skeptic catholics who can feel in their souls that this church is bad.

 

[Vdp]

There are some of us in the Catholic Church that do not believe in Purgatory.

 

[ThomistColin]

There are some of us in the Catholic Church that do not believe in Purgatory.

And there are many of us who do. Though I'm of the grouping that doesn't believe Purgatory is a place.

 

[epostle]

I do not agree with everything you are saying epostle.

I attend a Catholic Church. My whole family attends Catholic Churches. There are some of us in the Catholic Church that do not believe that Mary was sinless. I personally do not accept the doctrines of Mary. And yet i still am a Catholic.

Mary cannot be "Full of Grace" and have room for sin of any kind, or she is not full of grace: kecharitomene in Greek
It's a no brainer.

The Greek geeks remain strangely silent.

2087 Our moral life has its source in faith in God who reveals his love to us. St. Paul speaks of the "obedience of faith"[SUP]9[/SUP] as our first obligation. He shows that "ignorance of God" is the principle and explanation of all moral deviations.[SUP]10[/SUP] Our duty toward God is to believe in him and to bear witness to him.

2088 The first commandment requires us to nourish and protect our faith with prudence and vigilance, and to reject everything that is opposed to it. There are various ways of sinning against faith:
Voluntary doubt about the faith disregards or refuses to hold as true what God has revealed and the Church proposes for belief.
Involuntary doubt refers to hesitation in believing, difficulty in overcoming objections connected with the faith, or also anxiety aroused by its obscurity. If deliberately cultivated doubt can lead to spiritual blindness.

2089 Incredulity is the neglect of revealed truth or the willful refusal to assent to it. "Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him."[SUP]11
[/SUP]Catechism of the Catholic Church - The first commandment

I totally believe we are to study the Bible first to see what God says.

Yes, but there are parameters to remain in, that hopefully keeps people from coming up with wacky theories because they "found it in the bible".

​

 

[epostle]

As a Catholic I am bound to follow Jesus. Not Jesus and Mary. There are many issues i do not agree with in the Catholic Church.

I stay in the Church because my friends and family are in the Church. If i was outside the Catholic Church they would not listen to what God has said in the Bible. I stay to bring the Gospel of Salvation to my family and friends.

You mean what you say God says in the Bible. You claim to be Catholic yet you appear in an anti-Catholic forum doing more damage than they try to do.

 

[Vdp]

Grace is a standing with God. Grace is a Gift from God. How can Grace be a physical object epostle?

A person can be "Full of Grace" and be a sinner at the same time epostle. Grace like i said is not a physical object that fills up a glass. Grace is a blessing, its not physical epostle.

You do know epostle that everybody who has accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior is full of Grace? God has given us Grace upon Grace! We all are full of Grace just like Mary was!

Its not what I say That God say, its what God says. But yet its what YOU say God says in the Bible. Like i said, i received Salvation, received Jesus as my Lord and Savior. I stay in the Catholic Church to bring the Gospel of Salvation to my Family and friends.

How can i bring my Family and friends the gift of Salvation if i leave the Catholic Church?

I'm not anti-catholic, i'm anti-false teachings. I accept what God says in the Bible. I reject those teachings the Priests cannot prove by the Bible.

Get use to it epostle, there are some of us Catholics who can think for ourselves.

 

[Magenta]

As a Catholic I am bound to follow Jesus. Not Jesus and Mary. There are many issues i do not agree with in the Catholic Church.

I stay in the Church because my friends and family are in the Church. If i was outside the Catholic Church they would not listen to what God has said in the Bible. I stay to bring the Gospel of Salvation to my family and friends.

As a Christian you are bound to follow Jesus, but by rejecting the infallible dogmas you have rejected Roman Catholicism, so are not really a Catholic. Thank you for explaining why you stay in a church that promotes heresies. Also, welcome to CC!

 

[epostle]

There are MANY works to get and keep salvation doctrines in Catholicism.

There is no such thing as "works" salvation in Catholicism. This LIE appears in every page when Catholicism is discussed.

But indulgences, which still goes on today in the form of mass cards one must BUY, to keep the supreme heresy of Purgatory cannot be double-talked away.

Because you double talk your way into believing lies. Your system cannot "bind and loose", you have no idea what it means, you attack indulgences because its an easy bat to beat Catholics with and requires thinking to even begin to understand, and you refuse to bend from your preconceived notions.

I say this to those honest skeptic catholics who can feel in their souls that this church is bad.

The Church is bad to you because you accept lies as truth. Blind prejudice can only be healed by the Holy Spirit, not in forums.

[h=1]“There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church, but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.” Bishop Sheen.[/h]PRIMER ON INDULGENCES

MYTHS ABOUT INDULGENCES

WHAT ARE MASS CARDS?

Others might read the links but I know you won't. Ignorance is bliss but it is never illuminating.

[h=1][/h]

 

[Magenta]

There is no such thing as "works" salvation in Catholicism. This LIE appears in every page when Catholicism is discussed.

Do Catholics not believe and teach that infant baptism saves? That it in fact removes original sin from their souls?

Born with a fallen human nature and tainted by original sin, children also have need of the new birth in Baptism to be freed from the power of darkness and brought into the realm of the freedom of the children of God, to which all men are called. The sheer gratuitousness of the grace of salvation is particularly manifest in infant baptism. The Church and the parents would deny a child the priceless grace of becoming a child of God were they not to confer Baptism shortly after birth (CCC 1250).

So who is the liar here?

 

[JeniBean]

Do Catholics not believe and teach that infant baptism saves? That it in fact removes original sin from their souls?

Born with a fallen human nature and tainted by original sin, children also have need of the new birth in Baptism to be freed from the power of darkness and brought into the realm of the freedom of the children of God, to which all men are called. The sheer gratuitousness of the grace of salvation is particularly manifest in infant baptism. The Church and the parents would deny a child the priceless grace of becoming a child of God were they not to confer Baptism shortly after birth (CCC 1250).

So who is the liar here?

OH, boy you just opened up a can of worms!!!! Many Christians, even ones on here do not believe in Infant Baptism! I personally have been told I am wrong on my belief of infant baptism. OH NO I entered BDF...gotta leave now!

 

[Magenta]

OH, boy you just opened up a can of worms!!!! Many Christians, even ones on here do not believe in Infant Baptism! I personally have been told I am wrong on my belief of infant baptism. OH NO I entered BDF...gotta leave now!

I would simply like to know which side of the mouth we are supposed to believe when a Catholic speaks. Perhaps it is neither. That too is an option. If lies are being told, and people are being deceived, should we not know?

 

[epostle]

Grace is a standing with God. Grace is a Gift from God. How can Grace be a physical object epostle?

Where did I say it was?

A person can be "Full of Grace" and be a sinner at the same time epostle. Grace like i said is not a physical object that fills up a glass. Grace is a blessing, its not physical epostle.

An analogy is a comparison in which an idea or a thing is compared to another thing that is quite different from it. It aims at explaining that idea or thing by comparing it to something that is familiar. Metaphors and similes are tools used to draw an analogy.

You do know epostle that everybody who has accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior is full of Grace? God has given us Grace upon Grace! We all are full of Grace just like Mary was!

Not according to scripture. Luke 1:28 - also, the phrase "full of grace" is translated from the Greek word "kecharitomene." This is a unique title given to Mary, and suggests a perfection of grace from a past event. Mary is not just "highly favored." She has been perfected in grace by God. "Full of grace" is only used to describe one other person - Jesus Christ in John 1:14. NOWHERE IN SCRIPTURE IS THIS FULLNESS USED TO DESCRIBE THE GRACE GIVEN TO EVERY BELIEVER. And the Greek geeks remain strangely silent.

Its not what I say That God say, its what God says.

Yes, and you are among the millions of Protestants with conflicting interpretations of what they claim "God says".

But yet its what YOU say God says in the Bible.

I go by what the Church says. She consistently teaches the same thing since the Apostles. Your "bible alone theology" was invented in the 16th century and is an unbiblical tradition of men.

Like i said, i received Salvation, received Jesus as my Lord and Savior.

I'm happy for you but don't confuse an emotional experience from some 2-bit preacher as "salvation".

I stay in the Catholic Church to bring the Gospel of Salvation to my Family and friends.

OK, so you admit to being an apostate and a hypocrite. I admire your honesty.

How can i bring my Family and friends the gift of Salvation if i leave the Catholic Church?

Because you are still living at home and don't want to scandalize your family with your rebellion.

I'm not anti-catholic, i'm anti-false teachings. I accept what God says in the Bible. I reject those teachings the Priests cannot prove by the Bible.

Proving everything by the Bible is not in the Bible.

Get use to it epostle, there are some of us Catholics who can think for ourselves.

You may go to Mass with your parents and spectate, but obviously you are not a participant. A Catholic would know what I am talking about.


Gen. to Rev. - Scripture never says that Scripture is the sole infallible authority for God's Word. Scripture also mandates the use of tradition. This fact alone disproves sola Scriptura.


Matt. 28:19; Mark 16:15 - those that preached the Gospel to all creation but did not write the Gospel were not less obedient to Jesus, or their teachings less important.


Matt. 28:20 - "observe ALL I have commanded," but, as we see in John 20:30; 21:25, not ALL Jesus taught is in Scripture. So there must be things outside of Scripture that we must observe. This disproves "Bible alone" theology.


Mark 16:15 - Jesus commands the apostles to "preach," not write, and only three apostles wrote. The others who did not write were not less faithful to Jesus, because Jesus gave them no directive to write. There is no evidence in the Bible or elsewhere that Jesus intended the Bible to be sole authority of the Christian faith.

2 Peter 1:20 - interpreting Scripture is not a matter of one's own private interpretation. Therefore, it must be a matter of "public" interpretation of the Church. The Divine Word needs a Divine Interpreter. Private judgment leads to divisions, and this is why there are 30,000 different Protestant denominations.

2 Peter 3:16 - the Scriptures are difficult to understand and can be distorted by the ignorant to their destruction. God did not guarantee the Holy Spirit would lead each of us to infallibly interpret the Scriptures. But this is what Protestants must argue in order to support their doctrine of sola Scriptura. History and countless divisions in Protestantism disprove it.

Scripture Catholic - SCRIPTURE ALONE ("SOLA SCRIPTURA")

 

[notuptome]

OH, boy you just opened up a can of worms!!!! Many Christians, even ones on here do not believe in Infant Baptism! I personally have been told I am wrong on my belief of infant baptism. OH NO I entered BDF...gotta leave now!

Jesus never baptized any babies. Jesus blessed the children.

Mat 19:13 ¶ Then were there brought unto him little children, that he should put his hands on them, and pray: and the disciples rebuked them.
14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.
15 And he laid his hands on them, and departed thence.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

Gen. to Rev. - Scripture never says that Scripture is the sole infallible authority for God's Word. Scripture also mandates the use of tradition. This fact alone disproves sola Scriptura.

So if you believe scripture is the sole source of infallible authority you cannot be Catholic?

2 Tim 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

I must conclude that Paul takes a position in opposition to yours.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Magenta]

Gen. to Rev. - Scripture never says that Scripture is the sole infallible authority for God's Word. Scripture also mandates the use of tradition. This fact alone disproves sola Scriptura.

So if you believe scripture is the sole source of infallible authority you cannot be Catholic?

2 Tim 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

I must conclude that Paul takes a position in opposition to yours.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Well, this is just more of the obvious and typical Catholic doublespeak, for out of one side of their mouth they proclaim that Sola Scriptura is invalid because it is not explicitly stated to be so in Scripture, while all the things we reject as their heresies they rabidly and vociferously defend despite the fact that none of them are explicitly found in Scripture. Some even defy Scripture. This they will not acknowledge because they elevate their falsities above the very Word of God..

 

[Budman]

Please cite the "works" dogma.

Simple. If it's the gospel (repentance and faith) PLUS anything, it is a works based salvation.

Answer this simple question: If you fail to attend mass, partake of the eucharist, confess your sins to a priest, go to church, do penance, etc., will you lose your salvation and thus go to hell?

Answer wisely, because your "church" has already ruled on this.

If you have questions about the Mass, I would be happy to answer them, but don't bash out of ignorance.

I'm not ignorant of it at all. Actually, it's you who appears ignorant of your own "church's" teachings.

No, that is not what anathema means.

Merriam-Webster dictionary: " the denunciation of something as accursed; Ecclesiastical excommunication."

(If one is accursed by the Catholic "church" are they saved in her eyes?)

If one is thus excommunicated, they are cut off from the sacraments, which, according to your "church", means they have no recourse for getting their sins forgiven, and will be LOST.

Dictionary.com: "a person or thing accursed or consigned to damnation or destruction."

The free dictionary.com: "One that is cursed or damned."


Your "church" adds conditions to salvation. It twists the gospel and puts the emphasis on the individual's performance and not on Christ. It claims the sacrifice Jesus made on the cross wasn't enough to pay for all sins, and people must suffer in a "purgatory" to pay for themselves, what Jesus could not.

It denies the sufficiency of Scripture by adding traditions that directly contradict God's Holy word, i.e., Mary as a mediator, Mary being sinless, Jesus being called down from Heaven and sacrificed over and over and over again for sins, teaching there is no salvation outside of the Catholic "church", purgatory, teaching there are venial vs mortal sins, bowing before idols, claiming the Apocrypha as Holy Scripture, teaching that man has the power and authority to forgive sin, etc.

You are spiritually blind. Blinded by the god of this world and your so-called "church".