I want to understand the Catholic faith so....

[onlinebuddy]

Especially known for his devotion to the Holy Name of Jesus, Bernardine devised a symbol—IHS, the first three letters of the name of Jesus in Greek, in Gothic letters on a blazing sun. This was to displace the superstitious symbols of the day, as well as the insignia of factions (for example, Guelphs and Ghibellines). The devotion spread, and the symbol began to appear in churches, homes and public buildings. Opposition arose from those who thought it a dangerous innovation. Three attempts were made to have the pope take action against him, but Bernardine’s holiness, orthodoxy and intelligence were evidence of his faithfulness.

Who gave Bernadine the right to create a "christogram?" The world needs Christ and not christograms! What was the last command of Jesus? Please read Matthew 28:18-20? Was it to create christograms?

These symbols have become idols today. How do we know? The catholic church has become totally dependent on these, and these are displayed almost everywhere. To make matters worse the words IHS are always inscribed inside the image of the sun- a pagan symbol.

Are you saying that in order to purge pagan superstitions, Bernadine created another pagan symbol. Absurd!

If what Bernadine created was useful, just ask an average catholic what IHS stands for, or what it means, and you will not get a proper answer. Whom are we fooling with all this symbolism?

If one wants to displace superstitions(just as Bernadine is said to have wanted to), point them to the Word of God!!! That's it! We do not require symbols and traditions to protect or promote the things of God. People tend to remember the symbols and forget purpose. People tend to remember the tradition, but forget God. It just beats the purpose. Jesus rebuked the Pharisees for the very same things. All catholic traditions are nullifying the word of God [Mt 7:13] to such an extent that they no longer believe that the Bible is the word of God anymore. Very sad state of affairs!

 

[onlinebuddy]

This insane post proves my theory: that Mary-bashing anti-Catholics are doctrinally anti-Semitic.

John 19:26 - Jesus makes Mary the Mother of us all as He dies on the Cross by saying "behold your mother." Jesus did not say "John, behold your mother" because he gave Mary to all of us, his beloved disciples. All the words that Jesus spoke on Cross had a divine purpose. Jesus was not just telling John to take care of his mother.

Rev. 12:17 - this verse proves the meaning of John 19:26. The "woman's" (Mary's) offspring are those who follow Jesus. She is our Mother and we are her offspring in Jesus Christ. The master plan of God's covenant love for us is family. But we cannot be a complete family with the Fatherhood of God and the Brotherhood of Christ without the Motherhood of Mary.

John 2:3 - this is a very signifcant verse in Scripture. As our mother, Mary tells all of us to do whatever Jesus tells us. Further, Mary's intercession at the marriage feast in Cana triggers Jesus' ministry and a foreshadowing of the Eucharistic celebration of the Lamb. This celebration unites all believers into one famiy through the marriage of divinity and humanity.

John 2:7 - Jesus allows His mother to intercede for the people on His behalf, and responds to His mother's request by ordering the servants to fill the jars with water.

Psalm 45:9 - the psalmist teaches that the Queen stands at the right hand of God. The role of the Queen is important in God's kingdom. Mary the Queen of heaven is at the right hand of the Son of God.

1 Kings 2:17, 20 - in the Old Testament Davidic kingdom, the King does not refuse his mother. Jesus is the new Davidic King, and He does not refuse the requests of his mother Mary, the Queen.

1 Kings 2:18 - in the Old Testament Davidic kingdom, the Queen intercedes on behalf of the King's followers. She is the Queen Mother (or "Gebirah"). Mary is our eternal Gebirah.

1 Kings 2:19 - in the Old Testament Davidic kingdom the King bows down to his mother and she sits at his right hand. We, as children of the New Covenant, should imitate our King and pay the same homage to Mary our Mother. By honoring Mary, we honor our King, Jesus Christ.

1 Kings 15:13 - the Queen Mother is a powerful position in Israel's royal monarchy. Here the Queen is removed from office. But now, the Davidic kingdom is perfected by Jesus, and our Mother Mary is forever at His right hand.

2 Chron. 22:10 - here Queen Mother Athalia destroys the royal family of Judah after she sees her son, King Ahaziah, dead. The Queen mother plays a significant role in the kingdom.

Neh. 2:6 - the Queen Mother sits beside the King. She is the primary intercessor before the King.

The Davidic Kingdom was Babylonian??? Your anti-Catholicism is psychotic.

Epostle,

Nice attempt, but you can't fool those who know their Bibles.
All the above verses are outrageously stripped out of their contexts.
All allusions made to Mary are completely baseless!
This is what cults do!
[The "Heavenly Mother" cult of Ansahnghong (whom I have personally encountered) interprets the Bible in a similar way that catholics do..(google it out)]

Let's take Revelation 12, for instance.

Rev. 12:17 - this verse proves the meaning of John 19:26. The "woman's" (Mary's) offspring are those who follow Jesus. She is our Mother and we are her offspring in Jesus Christ. The master plan of God's covenant love for us is family. But we cannot be a complete family with the Fatherhood of God and the Brotherhood of Christ without the Motherhood of Mary.

How on earth is this verse connected to John 19:26???
Where does it say that we as a family are incomplete without Mary??? You are making this up!
What makes you say that the woman is Mary?
If the woman was Mary, what is the sun, moon and the 12 stars? I'm sure catholics have a fantastic explanation for this. If you want a biblical answer, please read Gen 37:9.
When did Mary flee from satan to the desert for 1260 days?
What does time, times and half a time refer to, when the woman was kept out of Satan's reach?

In Revelation 12:9 John identifies the dragon as Satan; in v10 he clearly identifies the son as the Messiah; but he never identifies the woman as Mary. This is because scripture (elsewhere) already tells us who the woman is.

The "early church fathers" up to the 3rd century did not teach that the woman of Revelation 12 was Mary.
For eg: Hippolytus (AD 170-235) wrote: By the woman then clothed with the sun, he meant most manifestly the Church, endued with the Father’s word, whose brightness is above the sun. And by the “moon under her feet” he referred to her being adorned” (Hippolytus, Treatise on Christ and Antichrist).
Read more here:
http://www.justforcatholics.org/a131.htm#1

Psalm 45:9 - the psalmist teaches that the Queen stands at the right hand of God. The role of the Queen is important in God's kingdom. Mary the Queen of heaven is at the right hand of the Son of God.

The following is an excerpt from a catholic article. Woman Clothed With The Sun
"Finally, let me point out that the Scriptures never call Mary the “Queen of Heaven.” That was the title of a pagan false deity, probably the Canaanite goddess Astarte. The prophet Jeremiah was commanded to speak out the Lord’s disapproval of Israel’s worship of the “Queen of Heaven” (7:18; 44:17-19). Should we dishonour the blessed mother of our Lord by attributing to her the title of a despicable pagan goddess?"
Catholics, make up your minds!

But we cannot be a complete family with the Fatherhood of God and the Brotherhood of Christ without the Motherhood of Mary.

Now, when you (or the false teachers you follow) use the phrases "Fatherhood of God" and "Motherhood of Mary" as components of the family of God, you are doing something very heretical: You are equating Mary with God.

If you read the Bible in its context, you will find out that your views in their entirety are dangerously flawed. May God help you, since you refuse to listen to those who know his Word!

 

[Mantvydas]

From Romans 1. 1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:
7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.
9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;
10 Making request, if by any means now at length I might have a prosperous journey by the will of God to come unto you.
11 For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established;
12 That is, that I may be comforted together with you by the mutual faith both of you and me.
13 Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles.
14 I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise.
15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

 

[Mantvydas]

2 this chapter 2. 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

 

[GaryA]

you remind me of a puppy barking at the truck

"...a truck being driven by Satan..."

 

[GaryA]

You give her lip service when it can't be avoided, like nativity scenes at Christmas time. That's what your "honor" amounts to. All the Catholic bashing in here proves that much. It's BLESSED VIRGIN MARY. You won't find her proper title { ?????????? } in your literature or sermons.

Mary has no title.

 

[GaryA]

Satan was trying very hard to infiltrate it

Satan infiltrated it when it was originally created by Constintine...

 

[KenAllan]

The problem epostle is you and Catholicism have mixed up honoring a person with Worshiping a person. We can honor a person, but you Catholics have crossed the line by actually Worshiping Mary. How do i know this you ask?

Its simple epostle. First what Catholicism has done is pull verses out of context about Mary and have strung them together to make it look like the "Hail Mary" Prayer is from the Scriptures. Second, Catholicism has added Prayer beads alone with the "Hail Mary" Prayer. Third, Catholicism teaches there is nothing wrong with having a carved Image of Mary. Forth, Catholicism see's nothing wrong with bowing down to a statue of Mary.

Praying the "Hail Mary" Prayer is Worshiping Mary as your God epostle. Also Praying to Mary is Idolatry.

Praying the Rosary is Worshiping Mary as your God. Praying the Rosary is Idolatry epostle which will keep you from entering into Heaven.

Bowing down to a statue of Mary is Worshiping that statue as your God epostle. Bowing down to a statue of Mary is Idolatry.

Pope John Paul II followed Mary as his God. Pope John Paul II Worshiped Mary as his God. Pope John Paul II Worshiped Statues of Mary as his God. Pope John Paul II committed Idolatry. Pope John Paul II will never be allowed to enter into Heaven. The Lake of Fire is where Pope John Paul II will spend Eternity epostle.

If you continue on the path you are on epostle, you will end up in the Lake of Fire with Pope John Paul II.

Its so easy to enter into Heaven epostle. Just repent of all your sins and accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior.

Turn away from Mary, turn away from Catholicism, accept the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit and follow Jesus Christ only. Reject the false teachings of Catholicism, read the Scriptures asking the Holy Spirit to reveal the Truth to you. Study was God says in the Scriptures and reject what Catholicism says.

 

[epostle]

Epostle,

Nice attempt, but you can't fool those who know their Bibles.
All the above verses are outrageously stripped out of their contexts.
All allusions made to Mary are completely baseless!
This is what cults do!
[The "Heavenly Mother" cult of Ansahnghong (whom I have personally encountered) interprets the Bible in a similar way that catholics do..(google it out)]

No, we do not. First, you are being insulting. Second, associating Mary with a cult figure is heretical and insulting. You haven't a shred of evidence supporting your ridiculous assertion.
Is Catholicism Pagan? | Catholic Answers

Let's take Revelation 12, for instance.

How on earth is this verse connected to John 19:26???
Where does it say that we as a family are incomplete without Mary??? You are making this up!

With regard to John 19:26-27, we must first note that the composition of St. John's Gospel is quite unusual. It is told in the first person as the eyewitness account of one called the "beloved disciple" who is never named. It seems obvious from the context that this disciple is St. John, son of Zebedee. Some scholars have contested this but it seems clear to me, to the majority of modern scholars, and to the Catholic Tradition.

Most modern scholars who comment on this Gospel think that the unnamed first person narrator is done for a LITERARY purpose. That is, the reader is intended to project himself into that role so that he can experience what it was like to be in the presence of Jesus. As such, statements made to the "beloved disciple" by Jesus were intended by the author to be addressed to the reader. An example of this is where Jesus said that the beloved disciple might even tarry until he returns (John 21:22). This is telling the reader that Jesus could return at the very time that he is reading this Gospel.

So,when Jesus gives his mother Mary to the care of that Beloved Disciple, he is giving her to everyone who reads this Gospel as his or her mother.

This is sound biblical theology. It also conforms to the universal understanding of the Church down through the centuries. It is only denied by those who do not want to reach this conclusion because of anti-Catholic prejudice and because they want to follow man-made systems instead of the Church founded and superintended by the Holy Spirit.

What makes you say that the woman is Mary?
If the woman was Mary, what is the sun, moon and the 12 stars? I'm sure catholics have a fantastic explanation for this. If you want a biblical answer, please read Gen 37:9.
When did Mary flee from satan to the desert for 1260 days?
What does time, times and half a time refer to, when the woman was kept out of Satan's reach?

You can stick to a single meaning of Rev. 12:1 if you want, you will still be 1/3 correct.
Note that the Woman gives birth to a male child who is to rule the nations with a rod of iron. That’s a reference to the Messianic prophecy in Psalm 2, where we read:
Ask of me, and I will make the nations your heritage, and the ends of the earth your possession. You shall break them with a rod of iron [Ps. 2:8-9].
Jesus fulfilled this Messianic prophecy.

The fact that the male child is caught up to the throne of God is a reference to Jesus’ Ascension into heaven, so we have another confirmation that the male child is Jesus.
And since the Woman who gives birth to him is his Mother, we could infer that the Woman here is Jesus’ mother, the Virgin Mary.
But there is more to the story.

Is She Israel . . . or the Church?

The symbolism connected with the Woman is drawn from the book of Genesis, where the patriarch Joseph has a dream involving the sun, the moon, and the stars.
Then he dreamed another dream, and told it to his brothers, and said, "Behold, I have dreamed another dream; and behold, the sun, the moon, and eleven stars were bowing down to me."
But when he told it to his father and to his brothers, his father rebuked him, and said to him, "What is this dream that you have dreamed? Shall I and your mother and your brothers indeed come to bow ourselves to the ground before you?” [Gen. 37:9-10].

The symbolism of the sun, moon, and twelve stars comes from Genesis, where it refers to the family of Jacob and the twelve patriarchs, who headed the twelve tribes of Israel.
That has led some to say that the Woman in Revelation 12 is Israel.
You could go further and note that the Church is the spiritual Israel. So some have suggested that the Woman as the Church.

Which view is true?

• Is the Woman Mary?
• Is the Woman Israel?
• Is the Woman the Church?

You could try to solve this problem by making some of the symbols primary and some secondary.
For example, you could make the Woman’s role as the mother of Jesus primary, so she’s his literal mother, Mary, and the sun, moon, and stars imagery only means that Mary was a Jewish woman.
Or you could make the sun, moon, and stars imagery primary and say that she’s Israel, and the fact that Mary was the particular Jewish woman who gave birth to Jesus is secondary.

Either/Or Vs. Both/And

We don’t have to make that choice, because if you study the way symbolism is used in the book of Revelation, it often uses a single symbol points to more than one thing.
For example, Revelation 17 tells us what the seven heads of the beast represents:

This calls for a mind with wisdom: the seven heads are seven mountains on which the [Whore of Babylon] is seated; they are also seven kings (Rev. 17:9-10).

If the seven heads can be seven mountains and seven kings
then the Woman clothed with the sun might be the Virgin Mary and Israel and the Church.

This proves many symbols can have more than one meaning. I like to think of it as multi-dimensional, thus avoiding the this-or-that problem.

In Revelation 12:9 John identifies the dragon as Satan; in v10 he clearly identifies the son as the Messiah; but he never identifies the woman as Mary. This is because scripture (elsewhere) already tells us who the woman is.

Scripture reveals Mary as "woman" in several places. God said “woman” in Genesis 3:15, and He said “woman” in Rev. 12: >> The only two places in scripture where you have a woman and a serpent in the same verse. Genesis and Revelation, the beginning and the end of the Bible.
God said “women” at the Wedding of Cana, and He said “woman” while dying on the cross. The beginning and the end of his of His earthly ministry.

The "early church fathers" up to the 3rd century did not teach that the woman of Revelation 12 was Mary.

They didn't teach she wasn't either.

For eg: Hippolytus (AD 170-235) wrote:

By the woman then clothed with the sun, he meant most manifestly the Church, endued with the Father’s word, whose brightness is above the sun. And by the “moon under her feet” he referred to her being adorned” (Hippolytus, Treatise on Christ and Antichrist).

He wasn't all wrong, and neither are you.

Read more here:
http://www.justforcatholics.con

All those misrepresentations and lies have been refuted and debunked 1000 times over. justforcatholics is a closed site, it gives Catholics no opportunity for a defense. It's a reference for bigots.

The following is an excerpt from a catholic article. Woman Clothed With The Sun
"Finally, let me point out that the Scriptures never call Mary the “Queen of Heaven.” That was the title of a pagan false deity, probably the Canaanite goddess Astarte. The prophet Jeremiah was commanded to speak out the Lord’s disapproval of Israel’s worship of the “Queen of Heaven” (7:18; 44:17-19). Should we dishonour the blessed mother of our Lord by attributing to her the title of a despicable pagan goddess?"
Catholics, make up your minds!

That is from your "bible-Christian" Catholic bashing site, (who have nothing better to do with their resources) not from any Catholic article. (that you failed to cite)

Now, when you (or the false teachers you follow) use the phrases "Fatherhood of God" and "Motherhood of Mary" as components of the family of God, you are doing something very heretical: You are equating Mary with God.

No, we are equating the Motherhood Mary as mother of all who keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. (Rev. 12:17)I don't know how you squeeze "equating Mary with God" from that statement. Jesus gave us His mother to all of us from the cross.The woman in Rev. 12:17 is mother of the offspring. Your understanding of "church" is not a family which is why you have no mother. You live in a broken home. If the Church is the offspring then who is the woman???

17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Any Bible commentator worth his salt will tell you the "remnant of her seed" or "offspring" is the Church.

"Equating Mary with God" is a common sadistic insult because it doesn't require any thinking. It's a brainless flaming zinger that has one purpose: to annoy Catholics. Once you start to understand Mariology basics anyone can see what a stupid false canard it is.

If you read the Bible

in its context, you will find out that your views in their entirety are dangerously flawed. May God help you, since you refuse to listen to those who know his Word!

No, I have given citations followed by a brief exegesis of the text; you are demanding a comprehensive treatise on every citation I give and you are not being realistic. Since you accuse me of taking scripture out of context, the onus is on you to prove otherwise with the correct context. I explained, with scripture, how the Davidic kings had queens. You don't like my evidence because it violates your preconceived notions about the Davidic Kingdom as foreshadowing the Queenship of Mary. That may be why you have to be insulting.

Pontificating is easy, research is hard.

 

[onlinebuddy]

No, we do not. First, you are being insulting. Second, associating Mary with a cult figure is heretical and insulting. You haven't a shred of evidence supporting your ridiculous assertion.

I don't mean to be insulting.
I'm just saying that the catholic church displays cultist behavior when it exalts Mary to a height that neither Jesus nor the apostles did. You have made Mary 'everything a person would ever need.' This is not scriptural.

In order to prove that your beliefs are scriptural, you take Bible verses that do not talk about Mary at all, and you connect these to Mary; thus creating false allusions.

Furthermore, you refer to extra-biblical sources and call that an education. Those who do not study these extra-biblical sources are considered uneducated by you.

Let me say this: The Bible is not a mystery. Most of it is plain and clear. One does not need to do tons of research to understand simple truths.

 

[KenAllan]

Teaching that Mary was born without sin will keep you from entering into Heaven epostle because your Heart is not right with God.

Until you stop teaching the lies of the Catholic Church as Truths from God epostle, your Heart will never be right with God.

Even Judas who was with Jesus for years never accepted Jesus as his Lord and Savior. You are a lot like Judas epostle. Putting yourself above the very Word of God to teach the lies from Satan.

If your Heart is not right with God epostle, you are wasting your time and will never enter into Heaven.

Matthew 7:21-23
[SUP]21 [/SUP] "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
[SUP]23 [/SUP] And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'

You are not doing the Will of the Father when you proclaim that Mary was born without sin epostle.

Matthew 7:24-27
[SUP]24 [/SUP] "Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock:
[SUP]25 [/SUP] and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock.
[SUP]26 [/SUP] But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand:
[SUP]27 [/SUP] and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall."

Unfortunately epostle you are a foolish man who has built his house on sand, Catholicism, and not on Jesus who is the Word of God.

 

[epostle]

I don't mean to be insulting.
I'm just saying that the catholic church displays cultist behavior when it exalts Mary to a height that neither Jesus nor the apostles did.

God exalted Mary first.

You have made Mary 'everything a person would ever need.' This is not scriptural.

That is false and you would be hard pressed to prove it.

"...In Scripture, the term "worship" was similarly broad in meaning, but in the early Christian centuries, theologians began to differentiate between different types of honor in order to make more clear which is due to God and which is not.
​

As the terminology of Christian theology developed, the Greek term latria came to be used to refer to the honor that is due to God alone, and the term dulia came to refer to the honor that is due to human beings, especially those who lived and died in God’s friendship—in other words, the saints. Scripture indicates that honor is due to these individuals (Matt. 10:41b).

A special term was coined to refer to the special honor given to the Virgin Mary, who bore Jesus—God in the flesh—in her womb. This term, hyperdulia (huper [more than]+ dulia = "beyond dulia"), indicates that the honor due to her as Christ’s own Mother is more than the dulia given to other saints. It is greater in degree, but still of the same kind. However, since Mary is a finite creature, the honor she is due is fundamentally different in kind from the latria owed to the infinite Creator...

...Unfortunately, many non-Catholics have been so schooled in hostility toward the Church that they appear unable or unwilling to recognize these distinctions. They confidently (often arrogantly) assert that Catholics "worship" Mary and the saints, and, in so doing, commit idolatry. This is patently false, of course, but the education in anti-Catholic prejudice is so strong that one must patiently explain that Catholics do not worship anyone but God—at least given the contemporary use of the term. The Church is very strict about the fact that latria, adoration—what contemporary English speakers call "worship"—is to be given only to God.
read more here

In order to prove that your beliefs are scriptural, you take Bible verses that do not talk about Mary at all, and you connect these to Mary; thus creating false allusions.

Then why can't you find the name "Jesus" in the Old Testament???

Furthermore, you refer to extra-biblical sources and call that an education. Those who do not study these extra-biblical sources are considered uneducated by you.

Since you didn't quote what "extra-biblical sources" I used, I am left guessing.
The ante-Niacaen Fathers are a good source for what the earliest Christians believed and practiced. They shared the same language and culture as the Apostles. They relied on Apostolic Teaching before the canon of Bible came into fruition. The consensus of their teaching is without error. You don't like them because none of them taught sola scriptura or sola fide. You are doctrinally divorced from the early church.

Let me say this: The Bible is not a mystery. Most of it is plain and clear. One does not need to do tons of research to understand simple truths.

Let me say this: The Bible has many ambiguities that can only be resolved by the same authority that canonized it, especially when some heretic comes along with a private opinion.

If most of the Bible is plain and clear, why are Protestants so badly divided over baptism?

Tons of research is not required to understand revealed truth, but humility is. The humble person knows that the truths he receives are not his. The vain person thinks the truth is his possession.

 

[KenAllan]

Its very plain and clear that God has said ALL have sinned epostle. Its very plain and clear that God says NONE are righteous epostle.

The problem is not that the Scriptures are not clear. The problem is your Heart epostle! That is the problem. You have hardened your Heart to the Truth from the Scriptures. You have hardened your Heart to what God says in the Scriptures.

You are a lot like Judas. He hardened his Heart against Jesus, just like you have hardened your Heart against God.

The extra-Biblical sources the Catholics use IS their Oral Traditions that were NEVER written down! It was centuries later that any Tradition was written down and there is no way to know exactly what that tradition said in the first place.

With us True Christians, only God and His Scriptures have the Truth only.

With the Catholics its their Traditions and and what the Catholic Priests say and the Scriptures that have the Truth. If you notice the Catholics put their Traditions first with the Priests being second and the Scriptures being the Last.

This is why epostle cannot accept the Truth in the Scriptures. Its the Church and the Priests he listens to first with God being at the very bottom of the list.

This is why many Catholics have been deceived by Satan into rejecting the Scriptures.

 

[Utah]

The problem epostle is you and Catholicism have mixed up honoring a person with Worshiping a person. We can honor a person, but you Catholics have crossed the line by actually Worshiping Mary. How do i know this you ask?

Its simple epostle. First what Catholicism has done is pull verses out of context about Mary and have strung them together to make it look like the "Hail Mary" Prayer is from the Scriptures. Second, Catholicism has added Prayer beads alone with the "Hail Mary" Prayer. Third, Catholicism teaches there is nothing wrong with having a carved Image of Mary. Forth, Catholicism see's nothing wrong with bowing down to a statue of Mary.

Praying the "Hail Mary" Prayer is Worshiping Mary as your God epostle. Also Praying to Mary is Idolatry.

Praying the Rosary is Worshiping Mary as your God. Praying the Rosary is Idolatry epostle which will keep you from entering into Heaven.

Bowing down to a statue of Mary is Worshiping that statue as your God epostle. Bowing down to a statue of Mary is Idolatry.

Pope John Paul II followed Mary as his God. Pope John Paul II Worshiped Mary as his God. Pope John Paul II Worshiped Statues of Mary as his God. Pope John Paul II committed Idolatry. Pope John Paul II will never be allowed to enter into Heaven. The Lake of Fire is where Pope John Paul II will spend Eternity epostle.

If you continue on the path you are on epostle, you will end up in the Lake of Fire with Pope John Paul II.

Its so easy to enter into Heaven epostle. Just repent of all your sins and accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior.

Turn away from Mary, turn away from Catholicism, accept the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit and follow Jesus Christ only. Reject the false teachings of Catholicism, read the Scriptures asking the Holy Spirit to reveal the Truth to you. Study was God says in the Scriptures and reject what Catholicism says.

Matthew 2 states the Magi worshiped Jesus; not Mary, not Jesus AND Mary, not Jesus and anyone else; they worshiped Jesus and only Jesus. Dit, dot, dash, ballgame!

 

[MikeHenderson]

Matthew 4:10
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Then Jesus said to him, "Away with you, Satan! For it is written, 'You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve.' "
Epostle, we are to Worship God only and only God are we to Serve.

Matthew 15:8-9
[SUP]8 [/SUP] 'These people draw near to Me with their mouth, And honor Me with their lips, But their heart is far from Me.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.' "

Even God says your Heart is far from Him epostle because you teach as Doctrines the commandments of Catholicism!
Its in Vain you are Worshiping God epostle.


Its not what your mouth says epostle, its all about where your Heart is epostle. If your Heart is not right with God then you worship Him in Vain!

 

[Budman]

God said salvation is a gift that can't be earned. Catholics say they agree with this - and then work like crazy to earn it.

Humongous contradiction.

If they claim salvation is not earned, I would ask what happens if they don't go to church and perform the sacraments?

The Catholic "church" teaches they would lose their salvation and go to hell.

Looks like it's a works based religion after all....

...and not Christian.

 

[epostle]

Matthew 4:10
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Then Jesus said to him, "Away with you, Satan! For it is written, 'You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve.' "
Epostle, we are to Worship God only and only God are we to Serve.

Matthew 15:8-9
[SUP]8 [/SUP] 'These people draw near to Me with their mouth, And honor Me with their lips, But their heart is far from Me.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.' "

Even God says your Heart is far from Him epostle because you teach as Doctrines the commandments of Catholicism!
Its in Vain you are Worshiping God epostle.

Its not what your mouth says epostle, its all about where your Heart is epostle. If your Heart is not right with God then you worship Him in Vain!

I don't usually reply to people who make judgments on the state of my soul. I usually ignore unteachable, blind prejudiced ignorant anti-Catholic bigots infected by hate propaganda, but I give them several chances before commending them to the ignorasium featuring lego and coloring books.. .

​

God said salvation is a gift that can't be earned. Catholics say they agree with this - and then work like crazy to earn it.

Humongous contradiction.

If they claim salvation is not earned, I would ask what happens if they don't go to church and perform the sacraments?

The Catholic "church" teaches they would lose their salvation and go to hell.

Looks like it's a works based religion after all....

...and not Christian.

Catholics do good works for the same reason as non-Catholics/Protestants/Evangelicals/ Non-denoms do.
We all want to love our neighbor as we love ourselves for the love of God. That's why we do good works. It has NOTHING to do with earning salvation. No Christian of any flavor should object to this.
A "works based religion" is as false as it is insulting. That's Pelagianism, a heresy condemned by the Church at the Council of Orange 1000 years before the first Protestant came on the scene. Yet the myth lives on...

If they claim salvation is not earned, I would ask what happens if they don't go to church and perform the sacraments?

Sacraments are not performed, they are received.

Evangelical Protestants of the "low church" or non-denominational variety especially, oftentimes exhibit an antipathy to matter as a conveyor of grace (or "blessing"). In other words, they tend to deny the sacramental principle. This hearkens back to the Docetic heresy, with traces of Nestorianism and Donatism. Non-Catholic and non-Orthodox Christians frequently express the notion that matter is a step down, a "reduction" of Christ's Atonement: Matter vs. Spirit. Catholics (and Orthodox and many Anglicans and Lutherans) believe that the truth is quite the contrary, both prima facie and when examined in scriptural and reasoned depth.
read more here

 

[Budman]

Catholics do good works for the same reason as non-Catholics/Protestants/Evangelicals/ Non-denoms do.
We all want to love our neighbor as we love ourselves for the love of God. That's why we do good works. It has NOTHING to do with earning salvation. No Christian of any flavor should object to this.
A "works based religion" is as false as it is insulting. That's Pelagianism, a heresy condemned by the Church at the Council of Orange 1000 years before the first Protestant came on the scene. Yet the myth lives on...

Sacraments are not performed, they are received.

You are pulling the old "bait-and-switch" here. I never said "good" works are bad, I said Catholics work to receive and maintain their salvation - which is absolutely Catholic dogma. You can deny it all you want, but your "church" teaches that fact repeatedly.

Without the Mass your sins cannot be forgiven, because Jesus is offered daily as the same sacrifice for sins as He offered on the cross. Without the Confessional Booth your sins cannot be forgiven because your "church" teaches you must perform penance to receive forgiveness.

Your own Catechism and rulings from the Council of Trent proclaim that if anyone denies these things they are "anathema" - which means they are damned.

And don't try word substitution when it comes to the Sacraments. Whether you say they are "received" rather than performed makes no difference - without them, you are eternally lost - which contradicts the Bible teaching that salvation is a gift that cannot be earned in any way.

Roman Catholicism is indeed a works-based, pagan religion.

 

[Mec99]

But we can know the state of your Soul epostle by the very fact that you believe and teach Mary was without sin. Its not anti-catholic, its not hate propaganda, its all about you teaching Doctrines that are not from God.

You can try to muddy the waters all you want epostle, but the plain Truth is you do not follow God. You follow Catholicism instead.

Through out the Scriptures God has spoken about everybody being a sinner and everybody sinning. By saying Mary was without sin proves you have either never read the Scriptures or you have read the Scriptures but refuse to accept anything God says that is the opposite of what the Catholic Church teaches.

Either way epostle your Heart is not right with God.

Matthew 15:8-9
[SUP]8 [/SUP] 'These people draw near to Me with their mouth, And honor Me with their lips, But their heart is far from Me.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.' "

These verses do apply to you epostle. You may say you are honoring God, but it is only lip service you are giving to God. You are teaching the commandment of men when you declare Mary was without sin epostle.

Your eternal Soul is in danger of Hell Fire epostle and you are too blind to see it.

 

[MikeHenderson]

You still miss the point epostle. Its not about working for Salvation. Its not about the Sacraments. Its all about your rejection of the Truth from God in the Scriptures. Its all about you following the teachings of the Catholic Church and rejecting the Truth from God.

I truly believe that you have been very deceived by the god of this world. Your eyes have been blinded to the Truth by the god of this world.