Undeniably overwhelming and resounding proof of the truth of WOF, NICI, and BIGI.

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Feb 24, 2015
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Joh 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
Did you lose a job?
Then according to the above verse, the devil stole your job, not God.
Did you or a relative get sick?
Then
according to the above verse, the devil is the one who stole your health and/or the relative's health, not God.
Did someone you know get sick, or get shot, or have an accident of some kind, and die?
Then
according to the above verse, the devil is the one that killed them, not God.
Never has this interpretation been made in christian history because it is simply wrong. Crops fail, business's go bust, customers stop buying, so jobs are lost.

In your theology this is satan, not just life. Jesus has no problems defeating satan, so all christians can keep everything through faith. That is simply insane logic, but because you can interpret and extend one verse, it must be true.

How many business's have you worked with that have succeeded or failed? I have worked with both, but never have I spiritualised the results. I just walk with Jesus and look to him for guidance as to what to do next.

If evil people come and take my life, is that because of my lack of faith, or is it what Jesus said would happen?
You have made yourselves into super-men and a spiritual battle of good and evil which mixes wealth, health and domination all together. You are creating an insane construct which only survives because of peace and justice in our society and there is so much wealth everywhere. Things are going to change and get much harder, and your dream fall into dust.
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
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If you would read the scriptures without your preconceived doctrine blinding you. You could see that what I have stated is true. Instead you want to mock me and attack me personally. Is that what true Christians do? You are so full of yourself you can't see anything else. I really am sorry for you.
Preconceived vs ill conceived. What a pair we make!

I'm not attacking you, I'm attacking your ill conceived ideas. But again... more power to you.

Fly please?
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
3,100
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PeterJens;
You keep dodging the question, so I have to continue to put it back up here.
Is there a reason why you refuse to reply to this post.
You pick and choose a small part of each post but continue to avoid the one you know you can't get around. You know I'm right and can't prove otherwise.
What does the will of God have to do with the words we speak?
Please reply to that.

You said you won't listen to anything because it doesn't deal with "the will of God" issue.
Can you show me where the will of God is in the words we speak? God's will goes out the window, because we can and do, for the most part, say what we want, when we want and feel like saying whatever comes to mind.
Those who use God's will as an excuse not to believe what is written, have to add what is not written to the scriptures, and equally have to ignore all that is written.
Both blessings and cursing come about in our lives due to what come out of our mouths. What we name and claim verbally, whether good or bad, for or against us and our loved ones, will determine what comes to pass in our lives.
Pro 12:13 The wicked is snared by the transgression of his lips: but the just shall come out of trouble.
Pro 12:14 A man shall be satisfied with good by the fruit of his mouth: and the recompense of a man's hands shall be rendered unto him.

Pro 13:2
A man shall eat good by the fruit of his mouth: but the soul of the transgressors shall eat violence.

Pro 13:3 He that keepeth his mouth keepeth his life: but he that openeth wide his lips shall have destruction.

That is to say, he that watches what he says or what comes out of his mouth, like a wise man, will keep or preserve his life, but those who don't, like the fool, will have torment and destruction in his life.


Pro 18:20
A man's belly shall be satisfied withthe fruit of his mouth; andwith the increase of his lips shall he be filled.

Pro 18:21 Death and life arein the power of the tongue:and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof.

Isa 57:19
I create the fruit of the lips; Peace, peace to him that is far off, and to him that is near, saith the LORD; and I will heal him.


Psa 103:5 Who satisfieth thy mouth with good things;so that thy youth is renewed like the eagle's.

All the above verses have to do with the words that come out of your mouth. And these are just a few, there are many more.
Again, God creates what we say, whether it be for our good or to our detriment, it depends on the words we speak, or naming it and claiming it. It is a law of faith, and it works for good or evil, for or against.

Jas3:2 For in many things we offend all. If any man offend notin word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.
Jas 3:6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.

This too is saying that our tongue sets on fire the course of nature, or God creating the fruit of our lips, or death and life being in the power of the tongue.

Deu 30:11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
Deu 30:12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
Deu 30:13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
Deu 30:14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

Rom 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise,Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above
Rom 10:7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith,which we preach;
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Mat 12:33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.
Mat1 2:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
Mat 12:35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
Mat 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
Mat 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

Luk 6:45Agood man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth thatwhich is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heartbringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the hearthis mouth speaketh.

Luk24:11 And their words seemed to them as idle tales, and they believed them not.

So here are even more verses that say you have what you say without the will of God making you say what He wants you to say. The will of God is, what you say, you will have.

The will of God is,

Deu 11:26 Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse;
Deu 11:27 A blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you this day:
Deu 11:28 And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the LORD your God, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known.

Deu 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
The choice is your, to obey or not to. To speak life and belief or death and doubt.

Since you obviously are not walking in the Spirit, for you are carnally minded and do not believe, I ask you, where is the will of God with your actions and your words of doubt?
We all see what is going on in this world and go through problems, but God is our hope, and we put our trust in Him and His word, Jesus, to deliver us out of ALL our troubles.
Psa 34:17 The righteous cry, and the LORD heareth, and delivereth them out of all their troubles.
2Ti 3:11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.
 
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Feb 24, 2015
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The will of God -

The will of God is that we might believe in Jesus and be saved.

It is God’s will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; that each of you should learn to control your own body in a way that is holy and honorable, not in passionate lust like the pagans, who do not know God;
1 Thess 4:3-5

Moses said to the people, “Do not be afraid. God has come to test you, so that the fear of God will be with you to keep you from sinning.”
Exodus 20:20

Take delight in the Lord, and he will give you the desires of your heart.
Psalm 37:4

God said to Solomon, “Since this is your heart’s desire and you have not asked for wealth, possessions or honor, nor for the death of your enemies, and since you have not asked for a long life but for wisdom and knowledge to govern my people over whom I have made you king"
2 Chron 1:11

But Samuel replied: “Does the Lord delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices as much as in obeying the Lord? To obey is better than sacrifice, and to heed is better than the fat of rams.
1 Sam 15:22

Blessed are all who fear the Lord, who walk in obedience to him.
Psalm 128:1

You are my friends if you do what I command.
John 15:14

Gods will is about righteousness, doing what Jesus commanded. Gods way is demonstrating the truth through suffering.

Paul and Silas........they had been severely flogged, they were thrown into prison, and the jailer was commanded to guard them carefully......
About midnight Paul and Silas were praying and singing hymns to God, and the other prisoners were listening to them.........The jailer called for lights, rushed in and fell trembling before Paul and Silas. He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Acts 16:22-30

Healing and wealth have nothing to do with these principles. Both the poor and rich can walk in these ways, and health or wealth in this world is not guaranteed rather the opposite, oppression and persecution.
 
W

weakness

Guest
Knowing the will of God.
What is the will of God, or how can we know what His will is?
God is sovereign, but His word is His will, it is a law that is established forever in heaven. He has put His word above all His names, and He has to perform it, because Jesus IS the Word of God, therefore He cannot deny Himself. It is said that we cannot put God in a box. Just because you see it that way, doesn't mean it is that way. Again those who say such things reveal their ignorance of God, His will, and how His kingdom operates, when even the devil moved His hand against Job and the people moved Jesus to do what they wanted by healing and delievering them? God has limited Himself in many things because of our faith, not because of a lack of willingness on His part. If God didn't want something or a law a certain way, He is smart enough to know what laws and restrictions to set and what not to set. God has to do what He said He would do in His word. If He doesn't, then He lied.
1Jn 5:14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
So if it is His will, whatever we ask for will be given to us, for He will hear us. Since hearing is associated with doing. Isn't that what this verse says? Which means, if you don't know what His will is, then you don't know if He heard you, therefore you will not have any confidence that what you asked for has been given to you or done. At best, it will be the same old wishful thinking or hoping, that I mentioned above. It's not going to happen. God doesn't answer hopeful prayers.
So how do we know if what we desire is His will or not?
If you don't believe what God said in His word, if you don't know if He wants you and your loved ones healthy and/or healed, then you are in for some hard times and big time failures.
Most of you, act like you are in a boat with no powered motor, in a fast moving river. And for some of you, there is a huge waterfall at the end. And you just wait for it.
If you are waiting to see what happens or what the outcome will be after you pray, to see whether or not it was God's will, or to determine what His will was, then again, you are in for the same kind of fall or failures. If this is your method for finding out what the will of God is, then you have seriously and completely missed it. What do you think, "fight the good fight of faith" means? It didn't say fight the fight of THE FAITH, which would refer to the Christian faith. But of faith, which is referring to the thing in which you are/were praying for or desiring. If you don't know what the will of God is before you pray, then you are simply HOPING. Is that what you were doing to get yourself saved? Were you hoping God would save you when you said the sinner's prayer, asking Jesus to come into your heart and to be lord of your life? If you did, then you didn't get saved my friend. Do you find in scripture, that God will give you what you hope for apart from faith? And yet most of you do just that when you pray, because you don't know what His will is. If it is not hoping then it is wishing, when you say, "I will wait and see what happens" or when you stupidly pray in total ignorance, "if it be His will". In most cases, nothing happens, so you say, 'I GUESS it wasn't God's will after all'. Using the outcome to determine the will of God. Which is why most of you had to pervert the word of God to explain away or say why your prayers failed in the first place, and to explain why it wasn't God's will to heal so and so. WHERE IN THE BIBLE DID YOU READ THAT CRAP?! Talk about a doctrine of devils,... that's it! That's what I call stupidity personified! And yet most of you do just that. How do I know? Well first of all, many of you have written that foolishness and argued against the doctrine of WOF, NICI, and BIGI on CC. And secondly, if you don't know that name it claim it, as you like to call it, is a truth of God, then you don't know how faith works, and if you don't know how faith works, then you too will fall to the foolishness of hoping it to be, “His will”. For that IS one form of faith in action.
Where have you read in the bible that the God kind of faith was based on, the uncertainty of knowing God's will, or believing in a particular person, situation, circumstance, the words of a person, like a doctor, hope or wishful thinking, wavering, double minded, medication, treatments, or in any other thing in this world? In short, the God like or God kind of faith is based solely on trusting in God's faithfulness to perform His written word. There are of course, other things to consider. Such as what your attitude is and what comes out of your mouth in the interim period. Once you come to know and act on God's word, then as Jesus said, "nothing shall be impossible to you". If you're not sure what God is going to do for you, or what His will is concerning the thing you asked for, then it is not the God kind of faith, and the chances or likelihood of God moving on your behalf is very minimal, because it will be based on hope, not faith. Also, if you are walking in any kind of fear of bad or evil things happening, or the contrary of what you asked for in prayer, then your faith is in the negative and the law of fear, which is the reciprocal of faith, will cause the bad to come to pass in your life as it did in Job's.
Job 3:25 For the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me, and that which I was afraid of is come unto me.
The reciprocal of faith is called, fear. It too is a law of God, and will cause the bad thing in which you believe could happen, to come to pass when you act on that fear. That was one of Job's sins. Like faith, fear requires corresponding action to that which you are afraid of. The more you act on it, the more of a hold it will have on you, and cause the thing which you fear, to come to pass or to manifest itself in the natural.
Everything in the natural world is subject to change, and it is especially true to God and His word, which is law, for His word is forever settled in heaven.
Again, if you want to know what God's will is, then look at what He said in the bible. For God's word IS His will, and what He said He will do in His word, is exactly what He will do, and nothing short of what is written in His word, because that is what He wanted. The will of God is according to what He wrote/said.
Num 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
Why do you believe that it is God's will or desire for all men to be saved? Isn't it because He said in His word that He doesn't wish that any should perish?
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Just because you didn't get what you asked for in the past, doesn't mean you know everything there is to know about God, His will, or how the kingdom of heaven operates when you start thinking that it wasn't His will in the first place. Quite the contrary, it reveals your ignorance.
Your pride causes you to pervert scripture by reasoning away or making excuses for your failures to receive, whether it be for yourself or others.
By-the-way, just because you or any other person prays a heart felt prayer with tears and sobings, doesn't mean God will or is obligated to answer. Yes, God is touched by the feelings of our infirmity, but in every case, without faith, God will not and does not move on the behalf of the person praying. God does not watch over our prayers or tears, but over His word. Nor does He move because of our feelings, but because of His faith in us.
This does not however, negate God's love for and toward us. God is love and He still loves us, but He still watches over all His word to perform it. Many people, especially women, don't like to see God this way, and so reject it because they are compassionate and caring, and therefore think God would be the same way.
Mat 23:12 “And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.” The “whosoever” includes you, the so-called child of God. It doesn't matter who you are, for God is no respecter of persons, if you exalt yourself, God WILL humiliate or mortify you.
There are of course times when we need directions, not knowing where to go or what to do. If such is the case, then God tells us to ask Him what to do or where to go in faith, nothing waivering, and He WILL answer. “Nothing waivering” means exactly that,... nothing, not even the slightest doubt. If you waiver any or are double minded even just a little, then God said, “let not that man think that He shall receive ANYTHING of the lord”. That not only means the knowledge you just asked God for, but for anything else that you might ask Him for. Which translates into, you get absolutely nothing, through hoping, wishing, waivering, being double minded, or fearing. Now are you going to try and tell me again that those who have TRIED this WOF stuff, did so without ANY waivering, not even the least bit? And that you know this for certain, like you can see into there heart? So who do you think I'm going to believe, when I am told that so and so believed that way and died? You or that which is written in the bible?
Jas 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
Jas 1:6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
Jas 1:7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.
If you will notice, the word says, “...and it SHALL be given him”. Did you see a 'maybe' in there anywhere. What about, 'if it be His will', it shall be given him? Well, if you didn't see it there to start with, then why do you continue putting it there, or adding to it, as though it is there or that it's suppose to be there, while condemning those who believe it the way it is written? I thought the bible was suppose to be the source of your faith in which you believe. Well, the bible is no longer God's word if you keep rewriting it, to say what you want it to say, or what you have been taught. Why don't you just believe the pure word of God, just as it is written, instead of turning His word into a lie of the devil.
If God refuses to give you anything you ask for because of your lack of faith, then it would hold true to that which you speak, say, or command as well. Even if you say it in the name of Jesus. Though every knee has to bow at the name of Jesus, without faith, it has no power. The same holds true with the word of God. Without faith, there is no power in it. Same thing with your prayers, without faith, no power in it and nothing will happen.
​ Tribulation works patience, patience experience,and experience hope, and hope makes us not ashamed because the love of God is shed in our hearts. Faith is the substance of things hoped for. We have to have hope before we have faith. It seems so much emphasis is put on us, and some rightly so, but we have the Holy Spirit, Jesus makes intercession for us. The Holy Spirit bears witness to the truth and the will of God. It seems you are talking way above you pay grade. Jesus is the Father's word, God was manifest in the flesh, and we have seen him. Jesus took upon him the form of a servant. Let this mind be in you which was in Christ Jesus. Let us mind the things of others and not just things for ourselves.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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My conclusion of this thread is no WOF etc are missguided heresy.

To those who say walking with God is like an experiment is read Elijah and his works. He got discouraged, but nothing went wrong or miss-stepped.

To claim the kind of authority some WOF preachers do, they are close to blasphemy and should be careful. We stand by the grace of God, and judgement can fall. It should be no surprise to some, when some of these guys die, what that really means in terms of the doctrine.
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
3,100
180
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The will of God -

The will of God is that we might believe in Jesus and be saved.

It is God’s will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; that each of you should learn to control your own body in a way that is holy and honorable, not in passionate lust like the pagans, who do not know God;
1 Thess 4:3-5

Moses said to the people, “Do not be afraid. God has come to test you, so that the fear of God will be with you to keep you from sinning.”
Exodus 20:20

Take delight in the Lord, and he will give you the desires of your heart.
Psalm 37:4

God said to Solomon, “Since this is your heart’s desire and you have not asked for wealth, possessions or honor, nor for the death of your enemies, and since you have not asked for a long life but for wisdom and knowledge to govern my people over whom I have made you king"
2 Chron 1:11

But Samuel replied: “Does the Lord delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices as much as in obeying the Lord? To obey is better than sacrifice, and to heed is better than the fat of rams.
1 Sam 15:22

Blessed are all who fear the Lord, who walk in obedience to him.
Psalm 128:1

You are my friends if you do what I command.
John 15:14

Gods will is about righteousness, doing what Jesus commanded. Gods way is demonstrating the truth through suffering.

Paul and Silas........they had been severely flogged, they were thrown into prison, and the jailer was commanded to guard them carefully......
About midnight Paul and Silas were praying and singing hymns to God, and the other prisoners were listening to them.........The jailer called for lights, rushed in and fell trembling before Paul and Silas. He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Acts 16:22-30

Healing and wealth have nothing to do with these principles. Both the poor and rich can walk in these ways, and health or wealth in this world is not guaranteed rather the opposite, oppression and persecution.
You are a master of dodging, evading, and rejecting the question, subject, and truth of God's word, respectively.
I have no problem with the truth of God's word, regardless of the subject.
So I suppose, what you have written might be God's will, but there are other verses that speak directly to his will as well.
Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

I have signs following me, do you?
Back to the question.
What does the will of God have to do with what we say?
The fact remains that it doesn't.
When someone refuses to answer a question, they unwittingly admit they're wrong, and the other person is right.
The fact remains, that God allows us the freedom to say what we choose to say. But that's not the problem is it?
God also said in many places throughout the bible, the same book you say you believe, that He will cause what we say to come to pass, regardless of how good or bad it may be.
I must have used at least 30 different scripture verses and 8 or more topics to prove that fact.
So why deny the truth and refuse to accept it, when it is clearly written in God's word?
Again, God says,...

Pro 12:13 The wicked is snared by the transgression of his lips: but the just shall come out of trouble.
Pro 12:14 A man shall be satisfied with good by the fruit of his mouth: and the recompense of a man's hands shall be rendered unto him.

Pro 13:2
A man shall eat good by the fruit of his mouth: but the soul of the transgressors shall eat violence.

Pro 13:3 He that keepeth his mouth keepeth his life: but he that openeth wide his lips shall have destruction.

That is to say, he that watches what he says or what comes out of his mouth, like a wise man, will keep or preserve his life, but those who don't, like the fool, will have torment and destruction in his life.


Pro 18:20
A man's belly shall be satisfied withthe fruit of his mouth; andwith the increase of his lips shall he be filled.

Pro 18:21 Death and life arein the power of the tongue:and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof.

Isa 57:19
I create the fruit of the lips; Peace, peace to him that is far off, and to him that is near, saith the LORD; and I will heal him.


Psa 103:5 Who satisfieth thy mouth with good things;so that thy youth is renewed like the eagle's.

All the above verses have to do with the words that come out of your mouth. And these are just a few, there are many more.
Again, God creates what we say, whether it be for our good or to our detriment, it depends on the words we speak, or naming it and claiming it. It is a law of faith, and it works for good or evil, for or against.

Jas3:2 For in many things we offend all. If any man offend notin word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.
Jas 3:6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.

This too is saying that our tongue sets on fire the course of nature, or God creating the fruit of our lips, or death and life being in the power of the tongue.

Deu 30:11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
Deu 30:12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
Deu 30:13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
Deu 30:14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

Rom 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise,Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above
Rom 10:7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith,which we preach;
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.


Mat 12:33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.
Mat1 2:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.Mat 12:35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
Mat 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle [careless and thoughtless] word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
Mat 12:37For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
Luk 6:45Agood man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the hearthis mouth speaketh.

Mar 11:23 For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.


Over and over again, God says the same thing.
You shall have whatever you say.

I'm not the one who came up with this. God is.
I'm just a messenger of the King that wrote it.
You say this is just a pipe dream, a fantasy, or fallacy of mine?
Is heaven also just a pipe dream?
If you could get rid of your biases, and receive the word of God in your heart, as it is written, you wouldn't have to fight against the truth. Neither would you have to reject it.
Try interpreting some of the above verses.
Are you able to accept, agree with, and receive the truth?
If you can't agree with and accept what is written, then you cannot receive the truth of God's word.
Anyway, the truth of the matter is that God's will has nothing to do with what come out of our mouths, and yet He says, we shall have what we say. Whether it be for good or evil, for or against us and our loved ones, for life or for death, or for success or failure, God creates the fruit of our lips or that which proceeds out our mouths, and we shall eat the fruit of that which God created.
In other words, much of the bad things that happen to you and your family, is a direct result of your evil hearts.
To put it bluntly, you cause most of the bad things that take place in your life by the words that come out of your mouth.
Again, this is not what I have said, but what God has decreed in His word, repeatedly.
That is the truth, and that is the will of God.
 
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I've been in churches that some would call name it and claim it and it's not at all about saying that I have a million dollars until it somehow appears. It's not about money except in the small way that we all need money in this life. it's simply about finding a promise God gave concerning your situation and believing it.

Yes, speaking is part of it but only to the extent that I don't want to say anything that disagrees with what God said about that situation.

Let me give you an example. Let's say that one of my grown children is having a problem and stressing about it. I'm not going to say to my wife, "You know Kayla has really messed up this time." "I think she is going to loose everything she has before this is all over." I may feel that way, but I won't express my doubt and it certainly wouldn't help the situation if I did.

I'm going to go to God in prayer, asking Him to help my daughter. I will only say to my wife what the scripture says.
Isaiah 54:13New King James Version (NKJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]All your children shall be taught by the Lord,
And great shall be the peace of your children.

I'll say, "Well you know honey, Kayla shall be taught of the Lord and great shall be her peace in this situation." In that case my wife can agree with me and we are operating then on Matt.18:19 that says where any two of us agree on earth, it shall be done of our Father in Heaven.

Now if I make the negative statement, is that something God will get involved in? The scripture says God watches over his word to perform it. No, I will stand on God's word in this situation and I'll see God deliver my daughter.

That my friends is the evil practices of WOF.
:smoke: that was a nice verse my brethren :happy:
and because of that we would like to give some verses from the scriptures
for we hope this may also comfort your spirit when dealing to others
specially unto each members of each and every family in this reality . ...
:read:
Numbers: 11. 17. And I will come down and talk with thee there: and I will take of the spirit which is upon thee, and will put it upon them; and they shall bear the burden of the people with thee, that thou bear it not thyself alone.

:now: that will depend upon our spirit when god help us
from passing our understanding :whistle:
unto someone to become a better person
for themselves and to everyone . ...

God bless us all always

:ty:
 
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You shall have whatever you say.
He replied, “Because you have so little faith. Truly I tell you, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you.”
Matt 17:20

There is a simple problem here. Jesus is saying in the pursuit of God and righteousness nothing is impossible, but outside this nothing is guaranteed.

Normal people have little faith or authority. Christians appear also to have little authority. So the question then comes is the problem the faith, the thing being asked of or actually the reason for being involved in the first place.

The apostles answer is basically the direction in which the believer is travelling is important and the reason why the step of faith is being made. So faith is not alone, but also why you are pursuing it.

To resolve failure preachers simplify this down to a failure of belief and the need to persist like it is a test. This is actually unbelief, refusing to believe you have done something wrong and the Lord is blessing, but invisibly. Another name for it is delusion.

God intends us to die, to learn from and be present in the world and its experiences, but to be of heaven.
Salvation is despite these experiences and provides eternal deliverance at the last day physically, but spiritually today.

What you want is eternity now, with the eternal body here and authority to command what we desire.

One "christian" demonstrated the problem of this idea. He was angry with God that he did not have what he wanted and that it cost so much, it was unfair. In your world he would be happy, because he would get everything, and would give a passing nod to Jesus, but hate Him in his heart. Too many people have idols before God, and if they were taken away it would all fall apart.

But this side of life you are ignoring, as if it does not exist. As they say, it will bite you in the but very soon.
 
P

popeye

Guest
My conclusion of this thread is no WOF etc are missguided heresy.

To those who say walking with God is like an experiment is read Elijah and his works. He got discouraged, but nothing went wrong or miss-stepped.

To claim the kind of authority some WOF preachers do, they are close to blasphemy and should be careful. We stand by the grace of God, and judgement can fall. It should be no surprise to some, when some of these guys die, what that really means in terms of the doctrine.
You trade one Extreme for another.

A man on a cruise bragged on his thrifty discipline while disembarking the ship.

"I roughed it. Staying in my cabin and eating cheese,crackers and water. I saved so much money that would have been foolishly wasted on food."

They all laughed"The awesome buffet was included in the price of the ticket!! Didn't you read the brochure????"

GET A BIBLE,LOOK UP THE PROSPERITY,AND AUTHORITY VERSES,And STOP ACTING LIKE THEY ARE NOT THERE.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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GET A BIBLE,LOOK UP THE PROSPERITY,AND AUTHORITY VERSES,And STOP ACTING LIKE THEY ARE NOT THERE.
This kind of statement makes me laugh.

Jesus said you have to give up everything, but much more will be given back you in return.

What the prosperity gospel is preaching is give up nothing and claim more than you would otherwise get through any other means.

So God prospers His people, blesses righteousness, integrity, love, honesty etc. because these are the foundations of life, but this is not like a pot of gold waiting to be discovered. The church is falling apart because it has left its first love, love itself and sold out to an easy life, in wealth and self indulgence. Worse still this has been put back into the church so the church now makes this life of wealth the spiritual fulfillment of Gods eternal plan.

My fellow christians biggest problem is their houses, their security, their future, their pension, not sin and their relationships.

Likewise the problem in the church is their property, the flow of money, the size of the congregations, their future and not sin and their relationships. And so the church is fading away.

But WOF wants to accelerate this process and make the whole church so lost in money there is no gospel at all.
 
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ladylynn

Guest
You trade one Extreme for another.

A man on a cruise bragged on his thrifty discipline while disembarking the ship.

"I roughed it. Staying in my cabin and eating cheese,crackers and water. I saved so much money that would have been foolishly wasted on food."

They all laughed"The awesome buffet was included in the price of the ticket!! Didn't you read the brochure????"

GET A BIBLE,LOOK UP THE PROSPERITY,AND AUTHORITY VERSES,And STOP ACTING LIKE THEY ARE NOT THERE.




Popeye that is such a good description of certain brethren. They have all the freedom on the ship to enjoy the buffet AND they were even invited to sit WITH the Captain at HIS table!! But alas, :confused: they think the Captain would think more highly of them when they stay in the cabin and eat less than cheese and crackers., They miss the great buffet AND the close friendship with the amazing Captain who invited them. :(


 
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ladylynn

Guest


Jesus declared in John 10:10 that He came that you may have life, and that you may have it more abundantly. Thank you Jesus.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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Jesus declared in John 10:10 that He came that you may have life, and that you may have it more abundantly. Thank you Jesus.
I love this verse, but I have never read wealth into it because wealth is irrelevant. To those who see the term an abundant life is one with wealth, as if that is the goal, it surprises me. The reason is the world believes to its core is wealth is happiness, which is a hollow joke.

Now christians who think the same way show the fruit of their hearts. Jesus's abundance is in peace, joy, love, resolution, overcoming sin, walking in righteousness and integrity. Now it is like electric, if I make these points, I am somehow wrong, evil, carnal. Now that is odd, because I am not lusting after the world but after true spirituality.

Guess who argues strongest against walking in love, obedience and righteousness? Why it is these people.

So the fruit of the world is to oppose Gods principles and His heart, and this is what these groups are opposing.
I would suggest therefore they are showing they are 100% carnal, and everything is about the cravings of the flesh and an easy life.

I am not holding myself up as a glowing example, but simply how the argument and fruit is going. There are many groups who walk in the Holy Spirit who do not follow this theology and way of life, as it has nothing to do with the Holy Spirit but the leading these guys want to go after.
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
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Jesus declared in John 10:10 that He came that you may have life, and that you may have it more abundantly. Thank you Jesus.
He meant there, not here. The life we strive for is on the other side.

James 4:4
Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? Whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

1 John 2:15
Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

John 15:19
If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

John 12:25
Anyone who loves their life will lose it, while anyone who hates their life in this world will keep it for eternal life.

2 Corinthians 10
That is why, for Christ’s sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.

Are you happy with this world and it's trappings? You're doing something wrong.
 
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popeye

Guest
He meant there, not here. The life we strive for is on the other side.

James 4:4
Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? Whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

1 John 2:15
Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

John 15:19
If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

John 12:25
Anyone who loves their life will lose it, while anyone who hates their life in this world will keep it for eternal life.

2 Corinthians 10
That is why, for Christ’s sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.

Are you happy with this world and it's trappings? You're doing something wrong.
Just because the passengers show up 3 times a day for the free food that is offered on the cruise ship,does not mean that they are food worshippers.

It is a family. God the father takes good care of his children.
Anything less would be shameful to the kingdom.
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
3,100
180
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He replied, “Because you have so little faith. Truly I tell you, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you.”
Matt 17:20

There is a simple problem here. Jesus is saying in the pursuit of God and righteousness nothing is impossible, but outside this nothing is guaranteed.

Normal people have little faith or authority. Christians appear also to have little authority. So the question then comes is the problem the faith, the thing being asked of or actually the reason for being involved in the first place.

The apostles answer is basically the direction in which the believer is travelling is important and the reason why the step of faith is being made. So faith is not alone, but also why you are pursuing it.

To resolve failure preachers simplify this down to a failure of belief and the need to persist like it is a test. This is actually unbelief, refusing to believe you have done something wrong and the Lord is blessing, but invisibly. Another name for it is delusion.

God intends us to die, to learn from and be present in the world and its experiences, but to be of heaven.
Salvation is despite these experiences and provides eternal deliverance at the last day physically, but spiritually today.

What you want is eternity now, with the eternal body here and authority to command what we desire.

One "christian" demonstrated the problem of this idea. He was angry with God that he did not have what he wanted and that it cost so much, it was unfair. In your world he would be happy, because he would get everything, and would give a passing nod to Jesus, but hate Him in his heart. Too many people have idols before God, and if they were taken away it would all fall apart.

But this side of life you are ignoring, as if it does not exist. As they say, it will bite you in the but very soon.

Sir, you need to leave the dark side and come over into the light.
Since you tend to believe only what you see, you need to go to some spirit filled American churches where God moves in people's lives when they pray.
I'm talking real impossible miracles.
Is it possible for a steel rod in someone's body to turn to flesh and bone, with have the x-rays to prove it? Or for a solid steel rod going through the joint of a man's leg to keep it straight, to bend. Or where the discs of a person's spine are fused together with steel reinforcement rods to prevent them from bending, to where they are bending, touching the floor, and the list goes on and on.
Does everyone get healed.
No. But at least God is moving and we are learning more and more.
You don't need to wait till you get to heaven to get a new body, God is working on the ones we have in the here and now.
The bible says God is a present help in time of need. Having a healthy body is a need.
The bible says my God shall supply all you need, according to His riches in glory.
Even though you have to add to your interpretation to make the verse you used to fit your doctrine, thereby perverting it, Mk 11:23 had nothing to do with the pursuit of God and righteousness, but that of faith and how it worked.
Yet again, you continue to ignore and evade the scriptures I presented, only to hold on to your doctrine. I'm not the one whose going to pay for it sir, you and those whom you hold dear to you will.
Why did you even bother placing my quote up their when you didn't even talk about it?
You wrote about faith, I have been talking about God causing what you say to come to pass. That God creates the fruit of the lips. I have been centering on your words, not on your believing.
How many times have I been asking you to answer a simple question, only for you to take the conversation elsewhere? I don't know, I've lost count.
Personally I tire of dealing with someone always dodging and evading the subject of the thread they are writing about only to turn it in an entirely unrelated direction.
You have been set on this course, thinking that WOF and NICI is only about obtaining things from God, or how to get things you lust for, while completely ignoring everything I showed scripturally.
Personally, I have found the most godly, holy, and loving people I know to be those who live by faith. Because they actually help people, to where God actually moves in people's lives.
And people like you to be the most carnally minded. You who think you are a shining example of a holy, humble, righteous and loving child of God, because you preach poverty, sickness, and things of this world.
Being spiritually minded has to do with believing the word of God over a situation.
Being carnally minded has to do with believing and trusting in worldly things. Such as a cold, sickness, and diseases to take their natural course. You trust in doctors and medication to get well while condemning those who trust in God and His word for their healing.
There's just something wrong and wicked about that.
 
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ladylynn

Guest
Just because the passengers show up 3 times a day for the free food that is offered on the cruise ship,does not mean that they are food worshippers.

It is a family. God the father takes good care of his children.
Anything less would be shameful to the kingdom.


Hey you did it again Popeye!!! Excellent example in it's simplicity. I've heard a preacher say..;

"You have to be TAUGHT HOW TO "NOT" see this truth" Someone must sit a person down and teach them MAJOR distortion for them not to see the simplicity and beauty of the Father's love and care for His own. God the Father takes good care of the family He owns., We have a loving Father indeed.
 
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ladylynn

Guest
Sir, you need to leave the dark side and come over into the light.
Since you tend to believe only what you see, you need to go to some spirit filled American churches where God moves in people's lives when they pray.
I'm talking real impossible miracles.
Is it possible for a steel rod in someone's body to turn to flesh and bone, with have the x-rays to prove it? Or for a solid steel rod going through the joint of a man's leg to keep it straight, to bend. Or where the discs of a person's spine are fused together with steel reinforcement rods to prevent them from bending, to where they are bending, touching the floor, and the list goes on and on.
Does everyone get healed.
No. But at least God is moving and we are learning more and more.
You don't need to wait till you get to heaven to get a new body, God is working on the ones we have in the here and now.
The bible says God is a present help in time of need. Having a healthy body is a need.
The bible says my God shall supply all you need, according to His riches in glory.
Even though you have to add to your interpretation to make the verse you used to fit your doctrine, thereby perverting it, Mk 11:23 had nothing to do with the pursuit of God and righteousness, but that of faith and how it worked.
Yet again, you continue to ignore and evade the scriptures I presented, only to hold on to your doctrine. I'm not the one whose going to pay for it sir, you and those whom you hold dear to you will.
Why did you even bother placing my quote up their when you didn't even talk about it?
You wrote about faith, I have been talking about God causing what you say to come to pass. That God creates the fruit of the lips. I have been centering on your words, not on your believing.
How many times have I been asking you to answer a simple question, only for you to take the conversation elsewhere? I don't know, I've lost count.
Personally I tire of dealing with someone always dodging and evading the subject of the thread they are writing about only to turn it in an entirely unrelated direction.
You have been set on this course, thinking that WOF and NICI is only about obtaining things from God, or how to get things you lust for, while completely ignoring everything I showed scripturally.
Personally, I have found the most godly, holy, and loving people I know to be those who live by faith. Because they actually help people, to where God actually moves in people's lives.
And people like you to be the most carnally minded. You who think you are a shining example of a holy, humble, righteous and loving child of God, because you preach poverty, sickness, and things of this world.
Being spiritually minded has to do with believing the word of God over a situation.
Being carnally minded has to do with believing and trusting in worldly things. Such as a cold, sickness, and diseases to take their natural course. You trust in doctors and medication to get well while condemning those who trust in God and His word for their healing.
There's just something wrong and wicked about that.[/QUOTE

Very well stated Know1 Excellent post. Liked all of your post but the last sentence was very telling,
"Being spiritually minded has to do with believing the Word of God over a situation. Being carnally minded has to do with believing and trusting in worldly things."

Stepping out and believing that God has and does and will do above what we can ask or even think is what He does! Amen. He keeps showing up in our lives when we dare to believe what He says in His Word. That is why He tells us that without faith it is IMPOSSIBLE to please Him. It pleases the Father to bless us. Then we get a hold of that truth we learn to be a blessing to others. We can't know how to do these things without His gracious example.

We love Him because He first loved us. We learn to love others because He first showed us by His example. He freely gives to us and we learn how to freely give to others. Blessed to be a blessing.
Those who never dare believe and expect His love can't give it. They never dare go have the blessings of the 'cruise ship" Popeye made an example of. They stay in their cabin and eat the complimentary crackers and cheese. They don't venture out into the ship and eat at the Captain's table. They never know what they are missing.

I show up like you and Popeye do 3 times a day for the free food that is offered and want to hang out with the Captain as much as possible.
:) Maybe we can encourage some of these others to come out of their cabins and enjoy His bountiful feast??
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
113
Someone I know once said this about the subject:

19“Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

(Matthew 6)

It's very clear here where some people's hearts are. (Their heads too)