Hyper grace

[Grace777x70]

I believe that we are 100% holy now in our inner man and that as we renew our minds to who we are in Christ - His life in us gets "worked out" to this outside world.

So, I believe we are sanctified and are having this sanctification being displayed outwardly. It's kinda like being an orange tree - the tree is still an orange tree even if it has not grown up to produce those round, orange, sweet, juicy things! The point is that the orange tree has always through out has always been an "orange tree".

I believe it is simply a working out something that already exists.

Hebrews 10:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

My point was they are not speaking of sanctification as a process ...you were.

 

[Grace777x70]

Beautiful scripture!

This is why when people come against grace believing Christians and label them as hyper-grace ( as if it was a bad thing ) by saying they believe they can sin all they want because of grace - it reveals the fact that they really do not know what these grace people are actually saying. If we are receiving the true grace of God sin will not have dominion over us.

This comes from believing the gospel of grace of Christ.

Hyper-grace does not give us a freedom TO sin but a freedom FROM sin!

I for one love the hyper-grace of God revealed in the finish work of our Lord Jesus!!!!!

Romans 6:13-16 KJVS
[13] Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. [14] For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. [15] What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. [16] Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

1. We are to yield ourselves to God.
2. Sin shall not have DOMINION over us, but that does not mean at times it will not trip us up.
3. We become servants to whever we yield to. This implies a reconciliation to God when weve been running with red hoof.

See that wasn't hard, and I didn't even need Prince to show me the way. lol

 

[Grace777x70]

Amen! Let's grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Romans 5:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.

Bring on the hyper-grace to us!!!



Bring on the hyper-grace Lord!

Just checked out the Scriptures, and what to my inquiring eyes did appear!!!??? Just the topic we were discussing.

2 Peter 3:17-18 KJVS
[17] Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. [18] But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

 

[Grace777x70]

Paul says in Romans 6:7 and 6:10-11 said that we have died to sin just the same way Jesus died to sin when He died. We died with Him.

It's interesting that in Rom 7:17-23 he talks about sin being in him..that is in his flesh....warring against his inner man ( verse 22-23 )

All of this stuff I believe can only be seen when one gets a revelation of the new creation in Christ.

Good scriptures guys!

i didn't say we have died to sin and the law through the death of Christ?

 

[Grace777x70]

I agree 100%.

The Holy Spirit does use "people" like Paul, james, crossnote, Joseph Prince,..etc

So, let's be willing to eat from any source the Lord brings but to always be " ready to receive the word spoken to them and searching the scriptures daily to see whether those things being told are true "

Hey, I love to eat at restaurants even though most of my eating is at "home"

God's Word vs man's word ...I'd rather hear God's Word quoted any day over man's...rightly handled it's the best teacher.

 

[Grace777x70]

Beautiful scripture. Us hyper-grace believers absolutely love being built up in HIM.

That is the whole point for us hyper-gracers..lol It's all about HIM and what He has already done for us.

Just beautiful!

Well just a hint before I go.
It's all in the Person of Christ not some systematic formula drummed up by Scripture Spinners

Colossians 2:6-10 KJVS
[6] As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: [7] Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. [8] Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. [9] For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. [10] And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

 

[Grandpa]

Wow. 27 pages.

What's the conclusion? tldr...

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I believe that we are 100% holy now in our inner man and that as we renew our minds to who we are in Christ - His life in us gets "worked out" to this outside world.

So, I believe we are sanctified and are having this sanctification being displayed outwardly. It's kinda like being an orange tree - the tree is still an orange tree even if it has not grown up to produce those round, orange, sweet, juicy things! The point is that the orange tree has always through out has always been an "orange tree".

I believe it is simply a working out something that already exists.

Hebrews 10:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

We are 100% holy, period. Our flesh is no less holy than our spirit. Yet our spirit is 100% righteous, and our flesh is 100% unrighteous. We cannot walk in our 100% righteousness without acknowledging our 100% unrighteousness.

 

[Grace777x70]

I totally understand that! I had the exact same thoughts run through my mind. It turned that what people were saying about the so called hyper-grace message ( there really is no such thing as it is and always has been the gospel of Christ who is grace personified ) - was not indeed what was actually being said. For example - hyper-grace people say you can go out and sin as much as you like...it is a licence to sin. People who say that have absolutely no clue wha these hyper-grace people are saying as I have nvere heard that in my life ..and I have listened to over 1,000 messages.

For me what changed me was when I sincerely asked the Lord to know HIM and not necessarily what I was taught by my religious upbringing .

After that I started to change my "lens" of how I viewed scriptures in the sense of making sure I understood the differences between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant. The understanding of the new creation in Christ helped immensely as well. The understanding of grace and the gift of righteousness.

Relying on the Hole Spirit to guide us into all truth - to reveal Jesus to us!

With this background those scriptures which "appeared" to be contradictions actually showed the beauty of the grace and love of our Lord. It's all in the lens of how we view things.

For example - we could view homosexuals as vile creatures that all deserve to go to hell for their sin (I am being foolish here..)...or I could take the "lens" of Jesus who says..I love them dearly..they are precious to me.. I died for them...tell them I love them and I gave my life up so that they could live with Me...tell them they have the forgiveness of sins when they come to Me..tell them they can be free!!!

it's all in the lens!

Hi Grace, that's kind, thank you. I have to say though, that what I have seen of the HyperGrace message doesn't square with what I read in God's word.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I believe that we are 100% holy now in our inner man and that as we renew our minds to who we are in Christ - His life in us gets "worked out" to this outside world.

So, I believe we are sanctified and are having this sanctification being displayed outwardly. It's kinda like being an orange tree - the tree is still an orange tree even if it has not grown up to produce those round, orange, sweet, juicy things! The point is that the orange tree has always through out has always been an "orange tree".

I believe it is simply a working out something that already exists.

Hebrews 10:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

This sounds eerily like perfectionism..

So you think according to the law and all of Gods commands, his children are perfect?

 

[Grace777x70]

I agree with a lot of what you said! Well put.

real righteousness is Christ's righteousness which we already have through believe in Him. The "fruit" of this righteousness will reflect itself out in our lives.

I believe that us grace people can become "grace Pharisees" too and verbally attack the person that is against grace. There is a difference between talking about the religious mindset and attacking the person who believes differently then what you do.

That is a great point that you brought up! Thank you.

I define "religious" as being anything that is man made. There is a difference between "labelling " the person THEMSELVES as religious verse talking about the " religious mindset " or doctrine.

Matthew 16:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

Matthew 16:12 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

The doctrine or teachings of the religious mindset is dead against grace! This is why Jesus was constantly attacking the Pharisees and Sadducees.!

Hyper grace is a problem if it is actually walking in the world and justifying worldly self indulgence above walking in the Lord.

My experience here and in the church is people are deeply troubled and conflicted within their hearts, but use anything to cover it up. Wealth is often the first layer of reassurance people reach out to, or a super spiritual miracles zapping view, or I do not have to change because x is true.

Jesus promises us reality.

And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life.
Matt 19:29

Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.
Matt 5:8

For this people’s heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.
Matt 13:15

These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.
Matt 15:8

A good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and an evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. For the mouth speaks what the heart is full of.
Luke 6:45

The Lord brings consistency and reality to our hearts, so we behave on the surface the same as we are inside.

Now if people who talk about anything, but cannot acknowledge these realities, does not know Jesus.
It is impossible to love until you have loved and accepted yourself, warts and all. It is impossible to love until you see people as flawed and needy as yourself. It is impossible to have spiritual parents, children, brothers and sisters until you know how to be these things to others. This is real maturity, real righteousness, being an over-comer.

Why is it therefore the "spiritual" camp find these words or realities so hard to accept?

What I have read here about Jesus and grace is what I experience over 30 years ago. It maybe new to you, but it is not news to me. What is wrong is the desire do condemn everyone else as religious if their expression is not the same.

This is not walking in grace at all, but condemnation. So I am very skeptical that this is not just self indulgence and often pure escapism.

 

[Grace777x70]

We were unrighteousness before we came to Christ but now we are 100% righteous in Him.

We can't be both at the same time..100% righteous and 100% unrighteous...perhaps I mis-read your quote..

2 Corinthians 6:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

The distinction here is believer/unbeliever..righteousness/unrighteousness...light/darkness

We are translated out of darkness into His light!

Something good happens to us when we receive our Lord...it's all good stuff!!!

We are 100% holy, period. Our flesh is no less holy than our spirit. Yet our spirit is 100% righteous, and our flesh is 100% unrighteous. We cannot walk in our 100% righteousness without acknowledging our 100% unrighteousness.

 

[crossnote]

I agree 100%.

The Holy Spirit does use "people" like Paul, james, crossnote, Joseph Prince,..etc

So, let's be willing to eat from any source the Lord brings but to always be " ready to receive the word spoken to them and searching the scriptures daily to see whether those things being told are true "

Hey, I love to eat at restaurants even though most of my eating is at "home"

But when it comes to proving a point let's NOT go to ones like Prince, crossnote, 777, Spurgeon etc., let's go to Scripture.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

We were unrighteousness before we came to Christ but now we are 100% righteous in Him.

We can't be both at the same time..100% righteous and 100% unrighteous...perhaps I mis-read your quote..

2 Corinthians 6:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

The distinction here is believer/unbeliever..righteousness/unrighteousness...light/darkness

We are translated out of darkness into His light!

Something good happens to us when we receive our Lord...it's all good stuff!!!

No, you are not righteous. By faith you are clothed in Christ's righteousness. You are not that clothing; it is something that has been imputed to you as a gift that covers your nakedness. Walk in it, or walk in what you are: 100% unrighteous.

 

[Grace777x70]

I believe what I wrote concerning sanctification as outlined in the quote.

I believe Jesus was perfect according to the law and all of God's commands.

My faith is in Him and what He did on our behalf. He has become our wisdom, righteousness, sanctification and redemption. 1 Cor 1:30

I believe we are complete in Him!

Colossians 2:8-10 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,
[SUP]10 [/SUP] and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority;

I is and will forever be all about Jesus our Lord!

This sounds eerily like perfectionism..

So you think according to the law and all of Gods commands, his children are perfect?

 

[crossnote]

He does - but both sides of this discussion would claim the Holy Spirit is illuminating the word for them. We need to interpret the Scriptures correctly in order for Him to do so, right?

Like I said,He takes His Word and grants us understanding. Anyone can claim it, but His Word will reveal it as true or not.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I believe what I wrote concerning sanctification as outlined in the quote.

I believe Jesus was perfect according to the law and all of God's commands.

My faith is in Him and what He did on our behalf. He has become our wisdom, righteousness, sanctification and redemption. 1 Cor 1:30

I believe we are complete in Him!

Colossians 2:8-10 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,
[SUP]10 [/SUP] and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority;

I is and will forever be all about Jesus our Lord!

I asked if you were perfect, or thought we were? Sinless.

Jesus is our justification our perfection. We are IN HIM.. thus we have been perfected.

But is our sanctification complete, or ongoing, a process that will continue the rest of our lives as we grow in him?

 

[Grace777x70]

I agree buddy!

Let's let the scripture have the first say and the final say in all matters.

But let's be open to allow the Spirit of God to use others to explain Jesus to us. Teachers are a gift from our Lord to us but the ultimate teacher is the Holy SPirit who is in us!

I know you believe in teachers that God sends to us as well. We need both but the scriptures rightly divided by the Holy Spirit is the final say in my life!..as I'm sure it is in yours.

But when it comes to proving a point let's NOT go to ones like Prince, crossnote, 777, Spurgeon etc., let's go to Scripture.

 

[Grace777x70]

I will sin ( that is my flesh will sin ) and will continue to sin for the rest of my life until I get out of this body. I can choose to either yield to my flesh = bad stuff happening or to my inner man/Spirit = good stuff happening. so, I am responsible for what I yield myself to. One brings dead ( yielding to the flesh )..the other ( yielding to the Spirit ) brings life and peace to my life here on this earth.

I believe the inner man...the new creation in Christ is sinless and indeed cannot sin. 1 John 3:9, 1 John 5:18 are among a couple of the scriptures that speak to that.

To your question : But is our sanctification complete, or ongoing, a process that will continue the rest of our lives as we grow in him?

Yes! The answer is yes to both as I have talked about just recently on this thread.

I asked if you were perfect, or thought we were? Sinless.

Jesus is our justification our perfection. We are IN HIM.. thus we have been perfected.

But is our sanctification complete, or ongoing, a process that will continue the rest of our lives as we grow in him?

 

[PeterJens]

For example - we could view "sinners" as vile creatures that all deserve to go to hell for their sin (I am being foolish here..)...or I could take the "lens" of Jesus who says..I love them dearly..they are precious to me.. I died for them...tell them I love them and I gave my life up so that they could live with Me...tell them they have the forgiveness of sins when they come to Me..tell them they can be free!!!
it's all in the lens!

Sinners without love working in their hearts are doomed to destruction because there is no value in what they do only death.
Christians who are still slaves to sin, are equally as doomed.

The problem is without love being alive in any person there is no eternal life, only chaos and a lack of being able to do anything of real value. There is no place into eternity for those who do not have this, because this is eternity.

People have the idea sin is like a small failure, with a little polish and cleaning can fix the issue. The idea the whole building of our lives has to be rebuilt is just too much for most.

The only way to set love free, to bring healing and hope, is to let Jesus in. On this foundation is eternity made real.