Hyper grace

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Oct 21, 2015
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I keep finding it interesting that most I have bumped into in this movement have had a legalistic upbringing.
What's wrong with sanctification being a process? Isn't it God who is in us both to will and do of His good pleasure? (phil 2:13)
I guess I have not been following the thread closely enough. I hadn't noticed some do not believe we live evermore holy lives as our christian walk progresses
 

crossnote

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Nov 24, 2012
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The above I do agree with, wilfull sin damages our relationship with God, but our place in his family is secure. I doubt Lynn or grace770 would disagree with that.
Though we must differentiate between wilful sin as it were and sin we are in our hearts trusting Christ for victory over
IE

An alcoholic becomes a christian and earnestly seeks victory over alcohol addiction through faith in Christ. He is seeking to cross over from being a slave of sin to a slave of righteousness, but it takes time as Paul clearly tells us( gal2:15-17) just suppose it took the alcoholic a month to be freed from his addiction. During Thi time his relationship with God us not damaged through his drinking for he is following after the holy spirit in the truth of the Gospel message to see victory over the alcohol.
However, if once the man is freed from his addiction he gets bored one night, goes to the pub and gets drunk, that is very different, and cannot be viewed the same as when through faith in Christ he sought victory over his drinking
And here I thought you were in agreement with 777 and Lynn.
 

crossnote

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Nov 24, 2012
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It takes some of us a bit of time to learn to distinguish between Orthodoxy and Orthopraxy. We often try to go at it backwards.
In my book they should go hand in hand...orthodoxy maybe a step ahead.
 
L

ladylynn

Guest
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The problem with your reasoning is that you (apparently) don't understand your position in the covenant. Sinning does not make one fall from righteousness. That is yours forever, imputed to you through the new covenant. However, sinning does take us out of fellowship with GOD. Relationships get strained when wrongdoing occurs, but they don't end. That is what I mean by fellowship. If you don't believe that happens with GOD, you are in denial of what many verses of scripture witness. Restoration of fellowship requires admittance of wrongdoing.

This thread made me realize that BenFTW is under the influence of this teaching.

Began commenting on your post HeRose but my computer shut down for updates!!! Shouldn't it ask first!?
:) everything disappeared. RATS!!

Anyway, speaking from the experience of one who lost fellowship with God for long spells of time I have since learned that it was not God who left, it was me. God never leaves or forsakes us. I had to change my mind about God and who He is and what He requires. Jesus has secured that for us. Sin cannot break fellowship with God. It is us who listen to the enemy of our souls who says we have let God down, we are not worthy, we are dirty rotten sinnersssss. When we start listening to the lies of satan We do not avail ourselves to the gift of no condemnation that is OURS bought and paid for by Jesus on the cross. We become self conscience and not Christ conscience. We let go of who we rightly are because of Jesus and some of us fall big time.

We don't hold on by faith the promises of God IN Christ. All we have is because of Jesus. We have the Father's love unconditionally. He never breaks fellowship with us no more than He would His Son.
Because of the great price Jesus paid on the cross, we have full and constant access to God. What Jesus did was more than enough. And as one of the brothers reminded us ... where sin abounds grace does much more....

I still find it astounding as I walk this life out that God will never leave me or forsake me. When I think of Him., I don't think of how much I love Him., I think of how much He loves me. His love is unchanging unwavering. It's unconditional. Grace is unconditional favor..love ... acceptance. Have you ever considered how much we need grace in our day to day lives in order to survive??

It's old covenant teaching that says "if I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me"
We have new hearts now. Under the new covenant we have Jesus our Advocate who sits at the right hand of the Father ever making intercession for us. We have our Great High Priest who forever maketh intercession for us. We are to always remember to magnify Jesus and not ourselves. Not in our failures and not in our triumphs. Jesus is all in all., We have forgiveness because of Him and all we have or can do is because of Him. In all things especially our identity for our walk here on earth and later in heaven it's all IN and about Jesus.

We will not need faith when we get to heaven. The faith issue is for here and now and our faith can't be in our good works for sanctification. Jesus is our sanctification. You see., there He is again.,
 
Oct 21, 2015
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And here I thought you were in agreement with 777 and Lynn.
Have they denied if a person commits wilful sin the relationship with God must suffer by doing so until we say sorry to God?
You do not fall out of fellowship with God, but your peace and happiness are certainly affected.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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It might come from the fact that most of us Christians went to church...not that all churches are legalistic...but judging from what I read..there certainly is a lot of them. With that we do not throw the baby out with the dirty water..we need each other in the Body of Christ! We are just getting rid of the religious junk and unfortunately some of our " sacred cows " have to be sacrificed!...lol
Well in your iconoclasm just don't get rid of that religious bible thingy. :rolleyes:
 

crossnote

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Nov 24, 2012
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I guess I have not been following the thread closely enough. I hadn't noticed some do not believe we live evermore holy lives as our christian walk progresses
Have they denied if a person commits wilful sin the relationship with God must suffer by doing so until we say sorry to God?
You do not fall out of fellowship with God, but your peace and happiness are certainly affected.
My point was they are not speaking of sanctification as a process ...you were.
 
Oct 21, 2015
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My point was they are not speaking of sanctification as a process ...you were.
When I read Destined to Reign by Joseph prince I did not get the impression he was opposed to sanctification as a process, but rather he believed that process was seen to better effect by the truth of grace he believes in.
And he did quote rom6:14 in the book, something which I was grateful for

If anyone else has read the book they can comment on whether they believe the impression I had was correct or not
 
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weakness

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Tit. To the pure all things are Pure. 1Cor.10:23 All things are lawful, but all things edify not. Gal5:24 Having crucified the affections and lust. Make clean the outside of the cup, and the inside will be clean also. Rom. 6:4 Buried with him in baptism, we are baptised into his death. Paul was delivered unto death daily. Whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God , neither him that loveth not his brother
 
Oct 21, 2015
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Tit. To the pure all things are Pure. 1Cor.10:23 All things are lawful, but all things edify not. Gal5:24 Having crucified the affections and lust. Make clean the outside of the cup, and the inside will be clean also. Rom. 6:4 Buried with him in baptism, we are baptised into his death. Paul was delivered unto death daily. Whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God , neither him that loveth not his brother
Make clean the outside of the cup and the inside will be clean also?
I thought it was the other way around
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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When I read Destined to Reign by Joseph prince I did not get the impression he was opposed to sanctification as a process, but rather he believed that process was seen to better effect by the truth of grace he believes in.
And he did quote rom6:14 in the book, something which I was grateful for

If anyone else has read the book they can comment on whether they believe the impression I had was correct or not
Romans 6:13-16 KJVS
[13] Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. [14] For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. [15] What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. [16] Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

1. We are to yield ourselves to God.
2. Sin shall not have DOMINION over us, but that does not mean at times it will not trip us up.
3. We become servants to whever we yield to. This implies a reconciliation to God when weve been running with red hoof.

See that wasn't hard, and I didn't even need Prince to show me the way. lol
 
L

ladylynn

Guest
Just checked out today's devotional and what do my wondering eyes should appear!!!???? Just the topic we were discussing.



[TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 100%, align: left"]Romans 4:7–8
“Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.” [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 3"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 3, align: left"] Some people think that if they were more “right” with God, then He would hear their prayers. For example, they sometimes believe that if they had not quarreled with their wives or had those bad thoughts earlier in the day, then God would answer their prayers.
God is not like that. He wants you to know beyond any doubt that you can always come to His throne of grace with boldness and have every confidence that you will receive His mercy and grace. (Hebrews 4:16) You see, because of Jesus’ finished work on the cross, you are already right with God. You don’t need to do anything to make yourself more right with God.
In fact, by faith in Jesus, you have received the righteousness of God Himself! (2 Corinthians 5:21) And no matter how many mistakes you make, you will never lose that righteousness because in the first place, God gave it to you apart from your works. (Romans 4:5–6) In other words, God did not impute righteousness to you because you were good, but because you believed in Jesus.
Because of what Jesus has done for you at the cross, all your sins—past, present and future—are forgiven. God will by no means ever remember your sins or count them against you! (Hebrews 8:12, 10:17)
My friend, because Jesus has been punished for your sins, today, God is not counting your sins against you. This means that your sins won’t stop Him from hearing and responding to your prayers. So you can always run into His presence knowing that you can boldly stand in and enjoy His presence and His love.
When you know this truth, it is going to set you free in your relationship with God. You can talk to Him without fear or any sense of condemnation. You can practice His presence and trust that He always hears you. Should something happen at home or at work, you don’t always have to call for your church leaders—you pray and God hears you!
Beloved, you are righteous in Christ and God hears your prayers—all because of Jesus!
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Destined to Reign devotional for Dec.1
 
Oct 21, 2015
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Romans 6:13-16 KJVS
[13] Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. [14] For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. [15] What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. [16] Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

1. We are to yield ourselves to God.
2. Sin shall not have DOMINION over us, but that does not mean at times it will not trip us up.
3. We become servants to whever we yield to. This implies a reconciliation to God when weve been running with red hoof.

See that wasn't hard, and I didn't even need Prince to show me the way. lol
But you are only going to live more according to the verses around 6:14 if you live by that truth. That is central to living as Paul taught.
No, you didn't have to read destined to reign to quote the verses, but JP did to an extent give reasons why sin shall not be your master for you are not under law but under grace. I always appreciate hearing differing views on that.
I'm not asking you to lol
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,770
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Just checked out the Scriptures, and what to my inquiring eyes did appear!!!??? Just the topic we were discussing.

2 Peter 3:17-18 KJVS
[17] Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. [18] But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,770
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But you are only going to live more according to the verses around 6:14 if you live by that truth. That is central to living as Paul taught.
No, you didn't have to read destined to reign to quote the verses, but JP did to an extent give reasons why sin shall not be your master for you are not under law but under grace. I always appreciate hearing differing views on that.
I'm not asking you to lol
Sin shalt not be my master because Christ set me free at Calvary...I didn't need Prince for that one either.
 
Oct 21, 2015
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Just checked out the Scriptures, and what to my inquiring eyes did appear!!!??? Just the topic we were discussing.

2 Peter 3:17-18 KJVS
[17] Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. [18] But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
You cannot grow in grace without following rom6:14
 
Oct 21, 2015
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Sin shalt not be my master because Christ set me free at Calvary...I didn't need Prince for that one either.
I'm not telling you to read his book lol, but personally I love reading of people who understand what romans 6:14 is saying and explain why Paul wrote what he did.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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Here is a long but helpful read for any interested in exposing this movement...

Modern Grace Message: Revolution or Rebellion?

For example footnote#2 gives this revealing tidbit... (names that have been bantered about CC as of late.)

2.Prominent figures associated with the movement we are considering include Steve McVey, Rob Rufus, Paul Ellis, Joseph Prince, Andrew Wommack, John Crowder, Andre van der Merwe, Tullian Tchividjian, Andre Rabe, Andrew Farley, and Clark Whitten.
But you are only going to live more according to the verses around 6:14 if you live by that truth. That is central to living as Paul taught.
No, you didn't have to read destined to reign to quote the verses, but JP did to an extent give reasons why sin shall not be your master for you are not under law but under grace. I always appreciate hearing differing views on that.
I'm not asking you to lol
JP? I'm beginning to see another problem common to these followers...

2 Timothy 4:3 KJVS
[3] For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,770
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You cannot grow in grace without following rom6:14
No one said otherwise. But one would grow faster if they had a proper understanding of it.

Romans 6:14 KJVS
[14] For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
 
L

ladylynn

Guest
Just checked out the Scriptures, and what to my inquiring eyes did appear!!!??? Just the topic we were discussing.

2 Peter 3:17-18 KJVS
[17] Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. [18] But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.



John 13:34 A new commandment I give you., that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another.