Hyper grace

[KennethC]

Christ didn't preach legalistic law that i am aware.

How will we sin if we walk in love?

Please tell me why you fail to obey all of Christ literal commands, for that is your yardstick, obeying Christs literal commands.

You see, you can give the perfect response, but neither you nor anyone else can live up to the perfectly pat statements/standards.

The fact is you link obedience to the literal letter to attaining heaven. You can say you are speaking of love in order to obey the literal letter but your hope of heaven is still in the letter being obeyed, not faith in Christ. For you can only have one bottom line, faith or law, not both.
And you fail your own statements for I am sure you do not even try and obey each and every literal command of christ

You again are speaking as if we are alone in this walk in the faith of Jesus.

God's grace and the guidance from the Holy Spirit will help us to walk properly.

Do we stumble at times ? YES, but that in no way excuses or allows us to continually be disobedient to His teachings and commands.

This is why when we stumble we will be lead to repentance by the Spirit, and will confess that sin to God. Return to walking the narrow path !!!

 

[Grace777x70]

Well...this is where I would have to side with the scriptures on this..

1 Cor 1:30 states we have become the righteousness of God In Christ. We are in Christ!

Romans 8:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.

If you want to believe you are 100% unrighteous that is your choice. You are right that it is by faith we have Christ's righteousness.

Romans 10:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

I just don't have the faith in the 100% unrighteous concept that you are proposing.

No, you are not righteous. By faith you are clothed in Christ's righteousness. You are not that clothing; it is something that has been imputed to you as a gift that covers your nakedness. Walk in it, or walk in what you are: 100% unrighteous.

 

[james57]

You again are speaking as if we are alone in this walk in the faith of Jesus.

God's grace and the guidance from the Holy Spirit will help us to walk properly.

Do we stumble at times ? YES, but that in no way excuses or allows us to continually be disobedient to His teachings and commands.

This is why when we stumble we will be lead to repentance by the Spirit, and will confess that sin to God. Return to walking the narrow path !!!

I am afraid your words are pointless in respect of helping a born again christian for they in their heart want to obey God.
But in a negative way they could affect a christian. For your emphasis is on what man must do, not what God can and will do for those who know they are secure with him through Christ

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

You again are speaking as if we are alone in this walk in the faith of Jesus.

God's grace and the guidance from the Holy Spirit will help us to walk properly.

Do we stumble at times ? YES, but that in no way excuses or allows us to continually be disobedient to His teachings and commands.

This is why when we stumble we will be lead to repentance by the Spirit, and will confess that sin to God. Return to walking the narrow path !!!

Here. I've reworded your comment as I have come to understand what you believe.

You again are speaking as if we are alone in this walk of observing the 10 commandments in the faith of Jesus.

God's grace and the guidance from the Holy Spirit will help us to walk properly in the law.

Do we stumble at times ? YES, but that in no way excuses or allows us to continually be disobedient to His teachings and 10 commandments.

This is why when we stumble at keeping the 10 commandments (what I call the MORAL LAW) we will be lead to repentance by the Spirit, and will confess that sin to God. Return to walking the narrow path of observing the law!!!

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Well...this is where I would have to side with the scriptures on this..

1 Cor 1:30 states we have become the righteousness of God In Christ. We are in Christ!

Romans 8:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.

If you want to believe you are 100% unrighteous that is your choice. You are right that it is by faith we have Christ's righteousness.

If you were righteous, there would be no reason for Paul to admonish you to put on the clothing of Christ's righteousness.

But put on the Lord Jesus Christ and do not make provision for the desires of the flesh. Romans 13:14

Put on
G1746 ἐνδύω enduo (en-doo'-o) v.
1. to invest with clothing​

 

[Grace777x70]

Romans 10:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] For Moses writes that the man who practices the righteousness which is based on law shall live by that righteousness.

Galatians 3:12 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

Galatians 2:19-21 (NASB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] "For through the Law I died to the Law, so that I might live to God.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] "I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] "I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly."

James 2:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.

In the mind of God and the apostles there is no such distinction between the moral and law and the ceremonial law...break one..You break them..if you break it..you have to pay for it. ( I always disliked that sign in crystal glass shops )

Here. I've reworded your comment as I have come to understand what you believe.

 

[KennethC]

I am afraid your words are pointless in respect of helping a born again christian for they in their heart want to obey God.
But in a negative way they could affect a christian. For your emphasis is on what man must do, not what God can and will do for those who know they are secure with him through Christ

Well I am sorry you feel that way, but I am not the one who set the standard, it was our Lord Jesus Christ who did.

I am only repeating what He said that those who believe in Him by having their faith built on His foundation are those that DO what He said and keeps His commandments.

We must not go and follow what other men teach over the clear teachings of Jesus.

Unfortunately that is what many do when they downplay obedience, and seperate the walk from the faith.

Do you really think the Holy Spirit will not guide us to be obedient ???

Even Jesus said if He abides in us we will produce MUCH fruit !!!

 

[Grace777x70]

Yes! Put on who you really are in Christ!

Ephesians 4:24 (NASB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth.

This "put on" is the same word as in Romans 13:14

In other words..."be" outwardly who you already are in Christ!!

You cannot become righteous by doing righteous acts...that is the Old Covenant way..which was observing the Law..all of it!!!...break one..you break them all.

In the New Covenant..Christ is our righteousness!! We do righteous deeds BECAUSE we are righteous! Believe on Him and what He has done.

If you were righteous, there would be no reason for Paul to admonish you to put on the clothing of Christ's righteousness.

But put on the Lord Jesus Christ and do not make provision for the desires of the flesh. Romans 13:14

Put on
G1746 ἐνδύω enduo (en-doo'-o) v.
1. to invest with clothing​

 

[james57]

Well I am sorry you feel that way, but I am not the one who set the standard, it was our Lord Jesus Christ who did.

I am only repeating what He said that those who believe in Him by having their faith built on His foundation are those that DO what He said and keeps His commandments.

We must not go and follow what other men teach over the clear teachings of Jesus.

Unfortunately that is what many do when they downplay obedience, and seperate the walk from the faith.

Do you really think the Holy Spirit will not guide us to be obedient ???

Even Jesus said if He abides in us we will produce MUCH fruit !!!

Firstly I refer you to my previous answer.

Secondly. Do you not want to be obedient? Is the holy spirit not leading you to be obedient?

For you keep insisting obedience is obeying Christs literal commands.
I am sure you do not even try and obey all of Christs literal commands.
Therefore you are doing what the Pharisees of Jesus day did, preaching to others what you do not even try and attain to un your own life. And the result will be the same now as it was for people who believed the Pharisees, they will be crushed.
You just failed to obey the second most important commandment. Are you condemned, or will the love, mercy and compassion of God save you through a sole righteousness of faith in Christ?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Well I am sorry you feel that way, but I am not the one who set the standard, it was our Lord Jesus Christ who did.

I am only repeating what He said that those who believe in Him by having their faith built on His foundation are those that DO what He said and keeps His commandments.

We must not go and follow what other men teach over the clear teachings of Jesus.

Unfortunately that is what many do when they downplay obedience, and seperate the walk from the faith.

Do you really think the Holy Spirit will not guide us to be obedient ???

Even Jesus said if He abides in us we will produce MUCH fruit !!!

You leave out so many words! I don't like to type either. According to what I've learned you believe, here's what I think you said (meant?).

Well I am sorry you feel that way, but I am not the one who set the standard of keeping the 10 commandments, it was our Lord Jesus Christ who did.

I am only repeating what He said that those who believe in Him by having their faith built on His foundation are those that DO what He said and keeps His 10 commandments.

We must not go and follow what other men teach over the clear teachings of Jesus to observe the 10 commandments.

Unfortunately that is what many do when they downplay obedience to the 10 commandments, and seperate the walk from the faith that produces the fruit of keeping the 10 commandments.

Do you really think the Holy Spirit will not guide us to be obedient to the 10 commandments???

Even Jesus said if He abides in us we will produce MUCH fruit of following the law !!!

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

In the New Covenant..Christ is our righteousness!! We do righteous deeds BECAUSE we are righteous! Believe on Him and what He has done.

Christ is your righteousness. You are not Christ. Put on Christ that your nakedness may be covered.

 

[Grace777x70]

I know the confusion in me prior to seeing the difference between the Old and New Covenants were around Jesus' commandments.

Now we were told ( and rightly so..) you need to keep Jesus commandments. Do the red letters ..Don't you love Jesus?

But to tell you the truth if one looked at those statements for their face value - none of us obey His commandments.

Who has sold everything they have and gave it to the poor?

Who has plucked out their eye and cut off their hand to stop from sinning?

Who has "obeyed" the Lord when He said " Go only to the house of the lost sheep of Israel" ( we go to other people now..we are so dis-obedient )

We need to look at all the words spoken in context. Some words were meant for specific people..other words were for all. The Holy Spirit reveals all things to us. We need Him.

Jesus was the great law preacher and the greatest grace teacher at the same time. To those trying to live by the law..He gave them Law 2.0 to reveal their need of a Savior. To those who knew they needed a Savior..He gave them grace.

Don't take someone else's medicine!

What were Jesus' commandments as viewed thought the lens of the New Covenant? Thank God that John told us what they were!

1 John 3:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.

Ahhhhh...finally the Holy Spirit has shown us exactly what Jesus' commandments are for us in the New Covenant! Rightly dividing the word of truth!

Firstly I refer you to my previous answer.

Secondly. Do you not want to be obedient? Is the holy spirit not leading you to be obedient?

For you keep insisting obedience is obeying Christs literal commands.
I am sure you do not even try and obey all of Christs literal commands.
Therefore you are doing what the Pharisees of Jesus day did, preaching to others what you do not even try and attain to un your own life. And the result will be the same now as it was for people who believed the Pharisees, they will be crushed.
You just failed to obey the second most important commandment. Are you condemned, or will the love, mercy and compassion of God save you through a sole righteousness of faith in Christ?

 

[Grace777x70]

Of course we are not Christ Himself..where would you get such a thought that people were Christ Himself?.. He is distinct from everyone else ..just like He is distinct from the Father and Holy Spirit. Yet the 3 of them have the same nature.

We are in Christ and He is in us..we have His wisdom. His sanctification, His righteousness, His life, His love, His nature, ...we are one with Him.

This is the mystery Paul talked about:

Ephesians 5:31-32 (KJV)
[SUP]31 [/SUP] For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
[SUP]32 [/SUP] This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
Colossians 1:27 (KJV)
[SUP]27 [/SUP] To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:




If any man be in Christ, they are a new creation. Old things have passed away Behold ( look intently ) all things have become new!

Christ is your righteousness. You are not Christ. Put on Christ that your nakedness may be covered.

 

[KennethC]

Firstly I refer you to my previous answer.

Secondly. Do you not want to be obedient? Is the holy spirit not leading you to be obedient?

For you keep insisting obedience is obeying Christs literal commands.
I am sure you do not even try and obey all of Christs literal commands.
Therefore you are doing what the Pharisees of Jesus day did, preaching to others what you do not even try and attain to un your own life. And the result will be the same now as it was for people who believed the Pharisees, they will be crushed.
You just failed to obey the second most important commandment. Are you condemned, or will the love, mercy and compassion of God save you through a sole righteousness of faith in Christ?

Well you would be wrong with your assumptions as I do not follow the example of the Pharisees.

Lord Jesus did not rebuke them for giving the law, He rebuked them for defiling the law and not helping others out in need.

They neglected the more important parts of faith, mercy, and justice.

They used the law for greed, vengeance, and self-righteousness. Their obedience was to self and not the love of God.

Obedience to Christ and His teachings should never be put in the same stance of being obedient to the literal letter or written ordinances of the Mosaic law.

I do not care what the written ordinances say because they do not apply to me, for what the law says it is to those who are under the law (transgressors).

I do because of my love and trust in Jesus do care about what He said that does apply to all believers.. see the Great Commission command !!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Well I am sorry you feel that way, but I am not the one who set the standard, it was our Lord Jesus Christ who did.

Yeah he did, You can not ive up to it, I can not live up to it. and no man who ever walked the earth (excet Christ himself) lived up to it.

I am only repeating what He said that those who believe in Him by having their faith built on His foundation are those that DO what He said and keeps His commandments.

We must not go and follow what other men teach over the clear teachings of Jesus.

Unfortunately that is what many do when they downplay obedience, and seperate the walk from the faith.

Do you really think the Holy Spirit will not guide us to be obedient ???

Even Jesus said if He abides in us we will produce MUCH fruit !!!

Those who are his children DO DO HIS COMMANDS. So whats your problem?

Again, You not perfect. nor am I. so if perfection is required non of us will get there.

Why do you demand everyone follow some code you yourself can not follow

 

[KennethC]

I know the confusion in me prior to seeing the difference between the Old and New Covenants were around Jesus' commandments.

Now we were told ( and rightly so..) you need to keep Jesus commandments. Do the red letters ..Don't you love Jesus?

But to tell you the truth if one looked at those statements for their face value - none of us obey His commandments.

Who has sold everything they have and gave it to the poor?

Who has plucked out their eye and cut off their hand to stop from sinning?

Who has "obeyed" the Lord when He said " Go only to the house of the lost sheep of Israel" ( we go to other people now..we are so dis-obedient )

We need to look at all the words spoken in context. Some words were meant for specific people..other words were for all. The Holy Spirit reveals all things to us. We need Him.

Jesus was the great law preacher and the greatest grace teacher at the same time. To those trying to live by the law..He gave them Law 2.0 to reveal their need of a Savior. To those who knew they needed a Savior..He gave them grace.

Don't take someone else's medicine!

What were Jesus' commandments as viewed thought the lens of the New Covenant? Thank God that John told us what they were!

1 John 3:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.

Ahhhhh...finally the Holy Spirit has shown us exactly what Jesus' commandments are for us in the New Covenant! Rightly dividing the word of truth!

Yes this is true what you have said, but the problem is not "believe in Him, or love your neighbor.

I think all or most of us agree with both those commandments.

The issue stems from when one tries to give the meat of what those 2 commandments entail.

For believing in Christ is not only He came in flesh, died on the cross, and rose on the third day. That is part of it, but we can not go by that alone and leave off what else Jesus said in John 3:21 and Luke 6:46-49.

Context is very important when studying, and examples of the rich man selling all he had and giving to the poor, and cutting one's hand off were only to be taken in the context of how important it is to remove sinful behavior in our lives.

Jesus showed the rich man his trust and faith was on his possessions and not in Him.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Obedience to Christ and His teachings should never be put in the same stance of being obedient to the literal letter or written ordinances of the Mosaic law.

I do not care what the written ordinances say because they do not apply to me, for what the law says it is to those who are under the law (transgressors).

I do because of my love and trust in Jesus do care about what He said that does apply to all believers.. see the Great Commission command !!!

Here. I'm rewording part of your comment so that others can better understand what (I think) you said.

Obedience to Christ and His teachings of following the 10 commandments should never be put in the same stance of being obedient to the literal letter or written ordinances of the Mosaic law (by that I mean everything other than the 10 commandments in Moses' law).

I do not care what the written ordinances say because they do not apply to me because I try to keep the 10 commandments, for what the law says it is to those who are under the law (transgressors, i.e., those who don't follow the 10 commanments).

I do follow the 10 commandments because of my love and trust in Jesus do care about what He said that does apply to all believers.. see the Great Commission command, i.e., go into all the world and teach them to keep the 10 commandments !!!

 

[james57]

Well you would be wrong with your assumptions as I do not follow the example of the Pharisees.

Lord Jesus did not rebuke them for giving the law, He rebuked them for defiling the law and not helping others out in need.

They neglected the more important parts of faith, mercy, and justice.

They used the law for greed, vengeance, and self-righteousness. Their obedience was to self and not the love of God.

Obedience to Christ and His teachings should never be put in the same stance of being obedient to the literal letter or written ordinances of the Mosaic law.

I do not care what the written ordinances say because they do not apply to me, for what the law says it is to those who are under the law (transgressors).

I do because of my love and trust in Jesus do care about what He said that does apply to all believers.. see the Great Commission command !!!

Kenneth , when you obey all of Christs literal commands then tell others they should. Lead by example.
For if you do not do yourself what you insist everyone else must do to be obedient and follow after the holy spirit you bring great trouble on yourself

For the measure you use to judge others will be used to judge you

That is one of Jesus teachings

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Kenneth , when you obey all of Christs literal commands then tell others they should. Lead by example.
For if you do not do yourself what you insist everyone else must do to be obedient and follow after the holy spirit you bring great trouble on yourself

For the measure you use to judge others will be used to judge you

That is one of Jesus teachings

in other words, he has to water down the commands of God to a point he is able to obey, and then demand everyone obey up to HIS level.

In the meantime, Gods level is thrown out the door. and not even seen.

 

[Grace777x70]

Very True! It's funny how the rich man thought he keep all the law from his youth...and in reality he broke the very first one!..lol I love how Jesus preached Moses 2.0 those who live by the Law.

The answer is " believe in Him and love your neighbor"

John 3:21 is a beautiful scripture of the Lord saying to come to the Light ( which is receiving Him as He is Light )...so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God! WOW! This scripture is exactly what grace-loving Christians are always talking about.

The context of the above verse is that Jesus is talking to Nicodemus a Pharisee. The Pharisee thought he was righteous because he keep the law of Moses ( or so he thought ). Pharisees were people who "were holy" in outward appearances but because they were sinners just like everyone else..they needed a Savior. Their trust was in them keeping the law and there are sincere christians today that think by them " being good or doing righteous acts" is the requirement to be holy or righteous.

Good behavior does not produce righteousness. Righteousness within produces good behavior which is a "fruit" of righteousness.

Of course we know that trusting in Christ alone makes us holy and righteous as He took our place. As we see who we really are now as a new creation in Christ - His life is displayed out into our behavior.

Right believing leads to right "seeing" of who we are in Christ which leads to right living.

It always starts from the right believing. It's all from His life coming from us. Without Him we can do nothing!

Yes this is true what you have said, but the problem is not "believe in Him, or love your neighbor.

I think all or most of us agree with both those commandments.

The issue stems from when one tries to give the meat of what those 2 commandments entail.

For believing in Christ is not only He came in flesh, died on the cross, and rose on the third day. That is part of it, but we can not go by that alone and leave off what else Jesus said in John 3:21 and Luke 6:46-49.

Context is very important when studying, and examples of the rich man selling all he had and giving to the poor, and cutting one's hand off were only to be taken in the context of how important it is to remove sinful behavior in our lives.

Jesus showed the rich man his trust and faith was on his possessions and not in Him.