Hyper grace

[Grace777x70]

I see what you mean..maybe it might be better the say.. " How to deal with sin?"...of course repenting ( changing our mind ) and confessing is definitely a part of " Reckon yourself dead to sin and alive to Christ ".

Umm, I agree with most the chart on the HG side but I do see it unfair (3rd up from the bottom) to put repentance and confession as a means of "How to overcome sin". When a child confesses to his father he is not overcoming anything, he is healing a relationship gone a bit sour.

 

[crossnote]

And the last one CHRIST-CONSCIOUS is the reason why this whole hyper-grace thing is totally wrong.

Back in the 1970's, I was in the New Age movement. For many, the goal of "spirituality" was to develop "Christ-consciousness."

The very use of that word, which you can find in many New Age books, but NOT the bible, tells me the entire hyper-grace movement needs to be thrown out.

We are to have Christ work in and through us. We are to renew out minds in Christ through the Holy Spirit. But never are we instructed that "the message makes me Christ-concious."

I am very glad you posted this chart, as it shows to me the underlying fallacy of the entire hypergrace movement.


Here is a quote from a New Age website. It says exactly what I was taught back in the 1970's.

"“Christ consciousness” is a term which means different things to different people.Some use it to mean the same as an ascended being, such as an ascended master or such as us after Ascension. The galactics often use it in this context.
Since the Fifth Dimension is the same as the Mental Plane on the spirit planes, it follows that it would also mean the state of consciousness attained by those who reach the Mental Planes. But those who are in the Mental Planes rarely refer to themselves as having Christ Consciousness, which has often caused me to ponder this particular usage. (See New Maps of Heaven.[1])
Some associate it with Brahmajnana or supposed “God Realization,” a state of samadhi attained when the kundalini or spiritual energy reaches the seventh or Crown chakra. At this state of enlightenment, the spiritual heart or hridayam opens but shuts again and the state of samadhi therefore is not permanent.
Others associate it with sahaja nirvikalpa samadhi, which is a more advanced state of enlightenment, visible in Ramana Maharshi and (I believe) Adyashanti. At sahaja, the spiritual heart opens and does not shut again. This is the level of mukti or liberation, not Brahmajnana.
Still others use it as a synonym for “perfection.” But there is no perfection short of mergence with God which comes at a level probably well beyond the highest orders of angels. Paramahansa Yogananda used often to employ it to mean “the perfect man or woman.” “Christed being” is another probable example of this use of the term.
A few reserve it to mean an avatar or a descent of God into form. But if this were the case it could not be used for very many people and certainly would not apply to us, who are ascenders, and not descenders.
Some don’t use the term at all, such as Sri Ramakrishna, even though he was a great admirer of Christ and merged with him in one of his many spiritual experiences.
The “Christ” itself refers to the Light that we are – the Self, the Atman, the Buddha nature, the Child of God, pearl of great price, treasure buried in a field, measure of meal that leavened the whole loaf, or mustard seed that grew into a great tree.
The “Christ” is the “particle” of the Formless that is placed in the womb of Shakti, the Holy Spirit, who is the Divine Mother, mater, matter. (Note the Trinity here of Father, Son, and Holy Ghost or Brahman, Atman, and Shakti – or, for that matter, Osiris, Isis and Horus.)"
What is Christ Consciousness? - Golden Age of Gaia

A google search reveals Deepak Chopra, Edgar Cayce (totally and absolutely a spiritist!) Blavatsky (Theosophy) as well as a bunch of "modern" philsophers use this term!

Nice catch...It makes me wonder who made up the chart and just how accurate it is.

 

[crossnote]

I see what you mean..maybe it might be better the say.. " How to deal with sin?"...of course repenting ( changing our mind ) and confessing is definitely a part of " Reckon yourself dead to sin and alive to Christ ".

I disagree. Confessing one's sin is not talking to oneself, reminding themselves that they are dead to sin etc.
It is speaking TO God in relationship owning up to the scondrel you (we) are.

 

[Grace777x70]

The new age movement also talk about meditation so do we throw out meditation now because of that? Of course not..

Being Christ conscious simply means to view everything through Him and His finished work on our behalf.

Performance-based Christianity says.." you do, do, do " ..it can be about THEM in the doing..

Christ-centered Christianity says.. " it's done, done, done..He did it all"..it's all about Him..

Christ's life expressing through us produces the "fruit" of doing good things. Everything originate with the Lord Jesus.

And the last one CHRIST-CONSCIOUS is the reason why this whole hyper-grace thing is totally wrong.

Back in the 1970's, I was in the New Age movement. For many, the goal of "spirituality" was to develop "Christ-consciousness."

The very use of that word, which you can find in many New Age books, but NOT the bible, tells me the entire hyper-grace movement needs to be thrown out.

We are to have Christ work in and through us. We are to renew out minds in Christ through the Holy Spirit. But never are we instructed that "the message makes me Christ-concious."

I am very glad you posted this chart, as it shows to me the underlying fallacy of the entire hypergrace movement.


Here is a quote from a New Age website. It says exactly what I was taught back in the 1970's.

"“Christ consciousness” is a term which means different things to different people.Some use it to mean the same as an ascended being, such as an ascended master or such as us after Ascension. The galactics often use it in this context.
Since the Fifth Dimension is the same as the Mental Plane on the spirit planes, it follows that it would also mean the state of consciousness attained by those who reach the Mental Planes. But those who are in the Mental Planes rarely refer to themselves as having Christ Consciousness, which has often caused me to ponder this particular usage. (See New Maps of Heaven.[1])
Some associate it with Brahmajnana or supposed “God Realization,” a state of samadhi attained when the kundalini or spiritual energy reaches the seventh or Crown chakra. At this state of enlightenment, the spiritual heart or hridayam opens but shuts again and the state of samadhi therefore is not permanent.
Others associate it with sahaja nirvikalpa samadhi, which is a more advanced state of enlightenment, visible in Ramana Maharshi and (I believe) Adyashanti. At sahaja, the spiritual heart opens and does not shut again. This is the level of mukti or liberation, not Brahmajnana.
Still others use it as a synonym for “perfection.” But there is no perfection short of mergence with God which comes at a level probably well beyond the highest orders of angels. Paramahansa Yogananda used often to employ it to mean “the perfect man or woman.” “Christed being” is another probable example of this use of the term.
A few reserve it to mean an avatar or a descent of God into form. But if this were the case it could not be used for very many people and certainly would not apply to us, who are ascenders, and not descenders.
Some don’t use the term at all, such as Sri Ramakrishna, even though he was a great admirer of Christ and merged with him in one of his many spiritual experiences.
The “Christ” itself refers to the Light that we are – the Self, the Atman, the Buddha nature, the Child of God, pearl of great price, treasure buried in a field, measure of meal that leavened the whole loaf, or mustard seed that grew into a great tree.
The “Christ” is the “particle” of the Formless that is placed in the womb of Shakti, the Holy Spirit, who is the Divine Mother, mater, matter. (Note the Trinity here of Father, Son, and Holy Ghost or Brahman, Atman, and Shakti – or, for that matter, Osiris, Isis and Horus.)"
What is Christ Consciousness? - Golden Age of Gaia

A google search reveals Deepak Chopra, Edgar Cayce (totally and absolutely a spiritist!) Blavatsky (Theosophy) as well as a bunch of "modern" philsophers use this term!

 

[crossnote]

The new age movement also talk about meditation so do we throw out meditation now because of that? Of course not..

Being Christ conscious simply means to view everything through Him and His finished work on our behalf.

Performance-based Christianity says.." you do, do, do " ..it can be about THEM in the doing..

Christ-centered Christianity says.. " it's done, done, done..He did it all"..it's all about Him..

Christ's life expressing through us produces the "fruit" of doing good things. Everything originate with the Lord Jesus.

It definitely would have been better to use the term 'Christ Centered' rather than Christ Consciousness"
The latter definitely sets off alarms for those of us who were thick into the New Age before it was called New Age

 

[Grace777x70]

The original question was "how to overcome sin".. I think the "repenting, confession circle of things was in relation to how some people deal in their thinking about overcoming sin"

it wasn't about confessing sin per se... it's about how do us Christians overcome all this sin stuff that Adam got us into.

Confessing means " to say the same thing"....so the word can be used when talking to the Lord about wrong doing/sin..or confessing ( saying the same thing ) to Him what He says about yourself about any subject

I disagree. Confessing one's sin is not talking to oneself, reminding themselves that they are dead to sin etc.
It is speaking TO God in relationship owning up to the scondrel you (we) are.

 

[Grace777x70]

good point crossnote! I think they were trying to get over the "mindset" aspect of things but Christ-centered" works for me too!

It definitely would have been better to use the term 'Christ Centered' rather than Christ Consciousness"
The latter definitely sets off alarms for those of us who were thick into the New Age before it was called New Age

 

[Grace777x70]

Hey it's a blessing they didn't have in that chart... ."meditate" on the word of Christ..imagine the bells that would have set off..

see..there are always good things to look at!...

Nice catch...It makes me wonder who made up the chart and just how accurate it is.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hmmm I'm pretty sure that the nation of Israel consisted of people....selah If I was going to address a million people in one place and said I was giving them $100...I would bet anything everyone of them would be in the line-up to get that $100.

Just because people take the teachings wrong and "blame God is not a good reason not to embrace all the Lord has for us so we can bless others!

Health and wealth are good things.....poverty and sickness are evil things..

Acts 10:38 (KJV)
How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

And I will say again, God never promised anyone prosperity and wealth All he promised was to take care of your needs.

To preach otherwise is to give people a false hope

Health and wealth teachers are an abomination to the lord. and lead people to false hopes.

 

[james57]

The original question was "how to overcome sin".. I think the "repenting, confession circle of things was in relation to how some people deal in their thinking about overcoming sin"

it wasn't about confessing sin per se... it's about how do us Christians overcome all this sin stuff that Adam got us into.

Confessing means " to say the same thing"....so the word can be used when talking to the Lord about wrong doing/sin..or confessing ( saying the same thing ) to Him what He says about yourself about any subject

In destined to reign JP gives examples of people stopping smoking, overcoming porn addiction etc once they knew they were the righteousness of God in Christ. Their sin couldn't condemn them, for Jesus paid the price of it all


In other words, when you know your imperfections cannot condemn you, you see much victory over sin/ bad habits

 

[Grace777x70]

Let me ask you a question:

1) one person has $10 left over after his needs are met..so he has $10 to give to others.

2) another person has $10,000 left over after his needs are meet...so he has $10,000 to bless others

If you had a daughter that needed an operation that costs $10,000..would you be thankful for the blessing of the person in 2)?

..it is the Lord your God that gives you power to get wealth....the Lord blesses us so we can be a blessing...there is no virtue in being poor and sick...heaven is going to drive some of us Christians to go nuts when see the health and wealth there.

The poverty and sickness mindset is against the nature of our loving heavenly Father!

And I will say again, God never promised anyone prosperity and wealth All he promised was to take care of your needs.

To preach otherwise is to give people a false hope

Health and wealth teachers are an abomination to the lord. and lead people to false hopes.

 

[Grace777x70]

this is so true...the scripture says "Awake to righteousness and sin not"

We need to grow up in Him...as we grow in our understanding in what Christ did for us and realize our righteousness in Him..sin falls away

Hebrews 5:13 (NASB)
For everyone who partakes only of milk is not accustomed to the word of righteousness, for he is an infant.

Brethern..we need to get over this sin-sonsciousness and grow up in the righteousness of our Lord... focus on our Lord!!!! Sin Has been dealt with!!!!! He did it all for us!

In destined to reign JP gives examples of people stopping smoking, overcoming porn addiction etc once they knew they were the righteousness of God in Christ. Their sin couldn't condemn them, for Jesus paid the price of it all


In other words, when you know your imperfections cannot condemn you, you see much victory over sin/ bad habits

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Let me ask you a question:

1) one person has $10 left over after his needs are met..so he has $10 to give to others.

2) another person has $10,000 left over after his needs are meet...so he has $10,000 to bless others

If you had a daughter that needed an operation that costs $10,000..would you be thankful for the blessing of the person in 2)?

..it is the Lord your God that gives you power to get wealth....the Lord blesses us so we can be a blessing...there is no virtue in being poor and sick...heaven is going to drive some of us Christians to go nuts when see the health and wealth there.

The poverty and sickness mindset is against the nature of our loving heavenly Father!

so the person who only had 10 left (which is not wealth) is not blessed by God? says who?

that proves my point. how dare you??

one does not have to be financially wealthy to be wealthy. you have it wrong!

 

[ladylynn]

If you were righteous, there would be no reason for Paul to admonish you to put on the clothing of Christ's righteousness.

But put on the Lord Jesus Christ and do not make provision for the desires of the flesh. Romans 13:14

Put on
G1746 ἐνδύω enduo (en-doo'-o) v.
1. to invest with clothing​

Simply means walk the truth out in your life. The battle is in the mind ... as a man thinks so is he... this is not looney tunes new age mysticism or wacky humanism., The Bible says- "and you shall know the truth and the truth will set you free.." The truth WILL set you free but it cannot set you free if you don't believe it. Since Jesus took the believers sin.,guilt,penalty.,judgment., when He became the sacrifice for our sin... If we don't walk that truth out each day but decide to walk around like we have not been cleansed from our sin., we will fail.

The Bible says that those who fail are those who have forgotten that they were cleansed. So our thinking has a major impact on how we walk out our Christian life.

2 Peter 1:2-10 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.

Seeing that His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and excellence.

For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises in order that by them you might become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust.

Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, in your moral excellence, knowledge;
and in your knowledge, self control, and in your self control, perseverance, in your perseverance, godliness;
and in your godliness brotherly kindness, and in your brotherly kindness, love.

For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus.

FOR HE WHO LACKS THESE QUALITIES IS BLIND OR SHORTSIGHTED, HAVING FORGOTTEN HIS PURIFICATION FROM HIS FORMER SINS.

You see, those who are NOT strong in the Lord and the power of His might, NOT walking in victory are those believers who have allowed satan to steal the truth from them. They have forgotten who they are in Christ; saints, sons, daughters, redeemed, holy, sanctified (set apart) heirs and joint heirs with Christ. Accepted in the beloved., the righteousness of God in Christ.

Put on the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Grace777x70]

of course both people are blessed by God.


Nobody said the $10 blessing was not blessed from God...you are "reading" that into it.

I was merely pointing out that $10,000 has a great effect on helping people in this world then $10.


Being wealthy incudes all good things including money to give to others...

so the person who only had 10 left (which is not wealth) is not blessed by God? says who?

that proves my point. how dare you??

one does not have to be financially wealthy to be wealthy. you have it wrong!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

of course both people are blessed by God.


Nobody said the $10 blessing was not blessed from God...you are "reading" that into it.

I was merely pointing out that $10,000 has a great effect on helping people in this world then $10.


Being wealthy incudes all good things including money to give to others...

God gives people many gifts all just as important. To focus on wealth and not every gift, again is wrong.

And as I said, 10 dollars is not wealth. Many people who you prech this too who only have 10 dollars is not going to be very happy.

 

[ladylynn]

Refusing the prosperity of the Lord at it's core is extreme self-centeredness ...characterized by a distorted view of our loving heavenly Father. The purpose of wealth is to be a blessing to others!!!

We take the admonitions in the bible against wealth in a totally wrong way, The bible warns about NOT trusting in riches and NOT in God..

1 Timothy 6:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Instruct those who are rich in this present world not to be conceited or to fix their hope on the uncertainty of riches, but on God, who richly supplies us with all things to enjoy.


Notice that it is God who richly supplies us with all thing to enjoy....

People who think that poverty and sickness are a virtue and from God sent to "teach" us something....are going to have an enormous fit when they get to heaven! They will also not be able to learn anything new because there is no poverty and sickness there to "teach" them things. It's going to be a horrible experience for them! Traumatic!

The enemy wants us to believe poverty and sickness are good things so that he can stop the work of our loving Father to others that need our help!

And again., not believing the promises will yield a lack of seeing them in our lives. If the enemy can get us to believe sickness., poverty, illness and death are from God our Father, we will accept it as from God and many have and many do.

(and I will insert this thought here., we need to repent--change our minds--- of our knowledge of God and allow the HolySpirit to renew our minds to the truth of all God is to us because of Christ) The Bible clearly says Jesus came to give us life and that MORE abundantly.

The devil=death Jesus=Life. We can't allow in our lives - evil to be called good and good to be called evil. Jesus is not the author of death., He is the Author of life, the Giver of life. By His stripes we are healed.

If the enemy of our souls who the BIBLE CLEARLY SAYS satan is the one who comes to KILL STEAL AND DESTROY., if he can deceive us to NOT walk out the promises of God by faith... we will lack and be short sighted., we will be blind because we will be living as our former selves having forgotten we have been cleansed and made new IN Christ. Believing we are no different than the rest of the world.

 

[crossnote]

In destined to reign JP gives examples of people stopping smoking, overcoming porn addiction etc once they knew they were the righteousness of God in Christ. Their sin couldn't condemn them, for Jesus paid the price of it all


In other words, when you know your imperfections cannot condemn you, you see much victory over sin/ bad habits

Hmmm, one of those 3 easy steps to victory type books...$$$$$

 

[Grace777x70]

Who is focusing on wealth and not every gift? This line of thinking doesn't make sense to me. If a person says..Jesus gives us wisdom...with the above reasoning...one should then say.."To focus on wisdom and not every gift is wrong!" ..again the one that said Jesus gives us wisdom is not implying wisdom is the all and be all gift from God.

I'm quite sure that any reasonable thinking person would say that $10,000 provides more help then $10 provides.

it has absolutely nothing to do with the $10 being less of God's blessing someone then $10,000 does.

God gives people many gifts all just as important. To focus on wealth and not every gift, again is wrong.

And as I said, 10 dollars is not wealth. Many people who you prech this too who only have 10 dollars is not going to be very happy.

 

[crossnote]

And again., not believing the promises will yield a lack of seeing them in our lives. If the enemy can get us to believe sickness., poverty, illness and death are from God our Father, we will accept it as from God and many have and many do.

(and I will insert this thought here., we need to repent--change our minds--- of our knowledge of God and allow the HolySpirit to renew our minds to the truth of all God is to us because of Christ) The Bible clearly says Jesus came to give us life and that MORE abundantly.

The devil=death Jesus=Life. We can't allow in our lives - evil to be called good and good to be called evil. Jesus is not the author of death., He is the Author of life, the Giver of life. By His stripes we are healed.

If the enemy of our souls who the BIBLE CLEARLY SAYS satan is the one who comes to KILL STEAL AND DESTROY., if he can deceive us to NOT walk out the promises of God by faith... we will lack and be short sighted., we will be blind because we will be living as our former selves having forgotten we have been cleansed and made new IN Christ. Believing we are no different than the rest of the world.

Poor Paul...

2Co 11:23-28 Are they servants of Christ? I am a better one—I am talking like a madman—with far greater labors, far more imprisonments, with countless beatings, and often near death. (24) Five times I received at the hands of the Jews the forty lashes less one. (25) Three times I was beaten with rods. Once I was stoned. Three times I was shipwrecked; a night and a day I was adrift at sea; (26) on frequent journeys, in danger from rivers, danger from robbers, danger from my own people, danger from Gentiles, danger in the city, danger in the wilderness, danger at sea, danger from false brothers; (27) in toil and hardship, through many a sleepless night, in hunger and thirst, often without food, in cold and exposure. (28) And, apart from other things, there is the daily pressure on me of my anxiety for all the churches.