Hyper grace

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Feb 24, 2015
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This is mixing the covenants.
The problem with your position is on balance grace is about sanctification.
What you do is go one step further, no rules or commands. You dishonour all Jesus's teaching.
When Jesus says His words are eternal, will never go away, it is not they only apply until the cross.

Your view about law is so extreme, you reject any sense of rules, as if rules define safety. Rules exist to help guide people into safety, they are not being safe. Even if you do not know the rules, if you break the principles you get hurt.

These principles define life. For someone who claims God accepts them no matter what, you seem to want to abandon any sensible reference points in case you start feeling condemned. It is like saying to a child, look both ways when crossing the road. The child could say I want to obey this to keep my parents happy, or do it because it keeps you safe.

The covenant with Israel was completed by Jesus's, the cornerstone. If this served no purpose, why actually have a bible at all. Now I prefer to stick with God and His revelation, thousands of years of experience expressed for our benefit.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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An observation:

There has been a subtle but massive shift over the centuries from preaching the gospel - the good news that Chris alone saved you and Christ alone continues to save you - to preaching the demands of our "human response".

I am incapable of generating faith on my own as faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of Christ. If self-effort is involved, it is not faith.

The gospel does not demand faith...it supplies it.

The true flavor of faith is not striving "to do". That is willpower, not faith. The flavor of faith is resting in the completed work of Christ for us.

The fruit of this resting in Him produces the fruit of His life in our everyday lives. And Christ gets all the glory!!
The striving is in putting the flesh to death. The labor is crucifying the old man daily. We work to abide in Christ's rest.
 
Oct 21, 2015
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The problem with your position is on balance grace is about sanctification.
What you do is go one step further, no rules or commands. You dishonour all Jesus's teaching.
When Jesus says His words are eternal, will never go away, it is not they only apply until the cross.

Your view about law is so extreme, you reject any sense of rules, as if rules define safety. Rules exist to help guide people into safety, they are not being safe. Even if you do not know the rules, if you break the principles you get hurt.

These principles define life. For someone who claims God accepts them no matter what, you seem to want to abandon any sensible reference points in case you start feeling condemned. It is like saying to a child, look both ways when crossing the road. The child could say I want to obey this to keep my parents happy, or do it because it keeps you safe.

The covenant with Israel was completed by Jesus's, the cornerstone. If this served no purpose, why actually have a bible at all. Now I prefer to stick with God and His revelation, thousands of years of experience expressed for our benefit.
The rules are within the Christian, the Holy Spirit wrote them on the minds and placed them on the hearts of those truly born again. The Christian in their heart wants to obey God.

The problem is this. If you ask people what the core of the new covenant is they will say Jesus died for your sins. But in reality, they get the first part already mentioned, for the Holy Spirit will place the law within you. You don't have to ask him to do it, you don't have to believe he will do it, he will do it
But you are asked to believe the other core component on which the new covenant stands:

Their sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more

The reality is, most do not accept the second part as it is, only the first part, for that specific part they don't have to ask for or believe, it is automatic at conversion
 
Oct 21, 2015
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The striving is in putting the flesh to death. The labor is crucifying the old man daily. We work to abide in Christ's rest.
You strive to put your flesh to death?

We work to keep ourselves in Christ's rest?
 
Nov 22, 2015
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The old man is dead...dead...dead. You can only die once.

Romans 6:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] knowing this, that our old selfwas crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;

Is Jesus being crucified daily still? ..was crucified is aorist passive ( passive is something is done to you..you don't do it )

The old man died on the cross..this is where we get the new man which has been created in righteousness and holiness. It is also called the inner man of the heart or the new creation in Christ.

I think confusion comes in when Paul says.."I die daily"..in 1 Cor.15:
Paul wasn’t speaking of dying to himself daily, as is so often taught from this verse. He was speaking of facing physical death on a daily basis. The Message Bible renders this verse as, “I look death in the face practically every day I live. Do you think I’d do this if I wasn’t convinced of your resurrection and mine as guaranteed by the resurrected Messiah Jesus?”

This verse is often quoted as Paul dying to sin daily, but that is not what this is saying. The context makes it very clear that Paul was speaking of physical death. He was saying that he faced death on a daily basis. It would be stupid to do so if there were no resurrection. If there were no resurrection and no eternal destiny at stake, we should just “party” and forgo the hardships (1 Corinthians 15:32).

The Bible does not teach a daily death to sin. It clearly states that we died unto sin once, just as Jesus did (Romans 6:1-11), and that we should continually reckon that to be so Romans 6:2 and at Romans 6:6).



Andrew Wommack's Living Commentary.


The striving is in putting the flesh to death. The labor is crucifying the old man daily. We work to abide in Christ's rest.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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I believe the laws written on the new creation in Christ..our heart..are the following:

1)The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus - Romans 8:2

2) The law of faith - Romasn3:27

3) The law of love - romans 13:8,10

4) The law of liberty - james 1:25

Love is the fulfillment of the law...so I have faith that the life of Christ in me with the help of the Holy Spirit will guide me in my dealings on this earth.

I firmly believe in Jesus' commandments..here they are in the New Covenant.

1 John 3:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.

Jesus words are spirit and they are life!

We need to look at all things said through the lens of the New Covenant. Rightly divide the truth.

If you say to obey all what Jesus says to people without taking in the context is dangerous

Jesus said "go and sell all that you have."..did you do this?..you are being disobedient if you haven't.

Jesus said " cut your hand off if it causes you to steal"..ever in your life steal?..still have your hands?

Jesus said " if you eyes cause you to stumble because you lust with it..pluck it out."..ever lust?..still have your eyes?

Jesus said "be perfect"..how is that one going?

Violation of these commandments from Jesus is disobedient and not honoring His words.

No, my brother.....we need to rightly divide the word thru the lens of the New Covenant under the guidance of the Holy Spirit within us.


The problem with your position is on balance grace is about sanctification.
What you do is go one step further, no rules or commands. You dishonour all Jesus's teaching.
When Jesus says His words are eternal, will never go away, it is not they only apply until the cross.

Your view about law is so extreme, you reject any sense of rules, as if rules define safety. Rules exist to help guide people into safety, they are not being safe. Even if you do not know the rules, if you break the principles you get hurt.

These principles define life. For someone who claims God accepts them no matter what, you seem to want to abandon any sensible reference points in case you start feeling condemned. It is like saying to a child, look both ways when crossing the road. The child could say I want to obey this to keep my parents happy, or do it because it keeps you safe.

The covenant with Israel was completed by Jesus's, the cornerstone. If this served no purpose, why actually have a bible at all. Now I prefer to stick with God and His revelation, thousands of years of experience expressed for our benefit.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
So,...if you feel that is true...does that mean there is no room for grace and forgiveness.....or that kiss?..( just trying to add some humor )
there is always room. God forgives unconditionally. I am forgiven, as are all his children.

Just sad some thinks they are better than others.. then again, brothers fight.. and will always fight until the lord returns and we finally figure out how wrang we are were on certain issues.
 
Oct 21, 2015
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what does Paul mean exactly by the Christian not being under the law? Well he states in Romans 10:4, “For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.” (KJV, emphasis mine)
So we see, when Paul says we are not under the law, he means the Christian is not under a law of righteousness before God. So Paul is not saying Christ is the end of the law full stop. No! He says Christ is the end of the law for righteousness. The law remains, therefore, but the penalty attached to it for breaking the law (sin) is removed. You see, if you are not under a law of righteousness before God, you cannot be made unrighteous in His sight for your imperfections concerning those laws, can you? It is not possible. You cannot be condemned, therefore, for your imperfections where those laws are concerned. You are off the hook. This is what so many find so hard to reconcile, however. They find it so hard to accept the Christian is not under a righteousness of obedience to the law before God. They know that must mean you cannot be condemned for your sin, the penalty, for it must have been removed, and to them, that gives a person a licence to sin. You see, however, it is much easier to understand Paul’s comments about us not being under the law if we accept the core terms of being under the New Covenant. I would place them before you again, if I may, in Hebrews 10:16-17:

This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. ‘I will put my laws in their hearts,and I will write them on their minds.’ Then he adds: ‘Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more.’” (NIV, emphasis mine)

As I have previously mentioned, the New Covenant hinges on not one, but two core points. At the point of conversion, the Holy Spirit writes the law on our minds and places it on our hearts. We have then been born again. We have been changed into people who want to obey in our hearts the law God desires us to keep. At the very moment this happens, we are not under law but under grace, for we have a Saviour from our sin. Our sins and lawless acts will be remembered no more. You see, friend, Jesus cannot be your Saviour from sin unless you are born again. For He will not be anyone’s Saviour from sin unless they desire in their heart to live as His Father wants them to. You see, God is not stupid. He didn’t make a covenant that would give anyone a license to sin if the penalty for sin were removed. Born again people cannot view this covenant that way, for they want to obey from their hearts. That is the whole point of being born again. If you want to obey God from your heart, as I have previously mentioned, it is impossible for you then to wilfully − without conscience − seek to break God’s laws. It cannot happen, friend. Jesus said to Nicodemus, “Ye must be born again.” (emphasis mine) It is not an option; it is pivotal. Without that happening, you cannot be saved.
You see, no matter which country you live in, you are expected to obey the laws of your land, aren’t you? That doesn’t mean, however, you want to obey them all in your heart, does it. They are legal laws written down (or typed) on pieces of paper; they are not placed in your heart. Because that is the case, there is a penalty attached to them for non-compliance to dissuade you from breaking them, isn’t there? And that penalty deters most from breaking whichever laws of their land they do not want to obey in their hearts. If the penalty wasn’t there, you could happily go and rob a bank and suddenly become a millionaire, couldn’t you? After all, what is there to stop you? You see, however, the law God requires you to keep has been transferred from an external law written on tablets of stone, to an internal law written on tablets of human hearts. Paul states in 2 Corinthians 3:3, [SUP][/SUP]You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.(NIV, emphasis mine)
Now, friend, why would the law be transferred onto your heart if the penalty for sin (breaking the law) must remain for you? If the penalty must remain, the law would remain where it was, wouldn’t it? So, because Christians have been born again, they are not under law but under grace. Paul preached the New Covenant, and he preached it mightily. You have been changed into someone who wants to obey God in your heart, and because that has happened, your sins and lawless acts will be remembered no more. You are in a covenant of grace. You are not under the law for righteousness before God.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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yes! Thank God for His unconditional love for us!


there is always room. God forgives unconditionally. I am forgiven, as are all his children.

Just sad some thinks they are better than others.. then again, brothers fight.. and will always fight until the lord returns and we finally figure out how wrang we are were on certain issues.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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You strive to put your flesh to death?

We work to keep ourselves in Christ's rest?
Do I need to post the many verses that say this? How about a few for starts.


... I die daily. 1 Corinthians 15:31

And they that are Christ's crucify the flesh with the affections and lusts. Galatians 5:24

Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able to, Luke 13:24
 
Sep 4, 2012
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The old man is dead...dead...dead. You can only die once.

Romans 6:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] knowing this, that our old selfwas crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;

Is Jesus being crucified daily still? ..was crucified is aorist passive ( passive is something is done to you..you don't do it )

The old man died on the cross..this is where we get the new man which has been created in righteousness and holiness. It is also called the inner man of the heart or the new creation in Christ.

I think confusion comes in when Paul says.."I die daily"..in 1 Cor.15:
Paul wasn’t speaking of dying to himself daily, as is so often taught from this verse. He was speaking of facing physical death on a daily basis. The Message Bible renders this verse as, “I look death in the face practically every day I live. Do you think I’d do this if I wasn’t convinced of your resurrection and mine as guaranteed by the resurrected Messiah Jesus?”

This verse is often quoted as Paul dying to sin daily, but that is not what this is saying. The context makes it very clear that Paul was speaking of physical death. He was saying that he faced death on a daily basis. It would be stupid to do so if there were no resurrection. If there were no resurrection and no eternal destiny at stake, we should just “party” and forgo the hardships (1 Corinthians 15:32).

The Bible does not teach a daily death to sin. It clearly states that we died unto sin once, just as Jesus did (Romans 6:1-11), and that we should continually reckon that to be so Romans 6:2 and at Romans 6:6).



Andrew Wommack's Living Commentary.
The aorist is indefinite in that case, not simple past. You didn't crucify anything to begin with. You were crucified and buried with Christ; you didn't do that yourself. Now we are to put the old man to death daily. There are too many verses that refute what you're saying. This is why you are putting a stumbling block before the brothers.
 
Oct 21, 2015
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Do I need to post the many verses that say this? How about a few for starts.

... I die daily. 1 Corinthians 15:31

And they that are Christ's crucify the flesh with the affections and lusts. Galatians 5:24

Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able to, Luke 13:24
How does the flesh get crucified? By human effort?


[SUP] [/SUP]For it is we who are the circumcision, we who serve God by his Spirit, who boast in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh 2Cor3:3

Yes, enter through the narrow door, most refuse to take it. They take the broad road of trying to attain by their own human effort rather than trusting Christ for obedience for obedience comes from faith(Rom1:5)

The Christians job is to look to Christ and trust him and rely on the sanctification of the spirit. They trust/rely on themselves for nothing
 
Oct 21, 2015
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Paul tells us where the power of sin lies. He states in 1 Corinthians 15:56, “The power of sin is the law.” (NIV)
Why does Paul state this? Well Paul is referring here to the law with its penalty in place for breaking it. As we have seen, the true power of sin is in the penalty attached to the law if you break it, for through that penalty sin has the power to condemn you to hell, and through the fear of that penalty many sinful passions are aroused in you. With the penalty of sin removed from you, sin has been robbed of its true power in and dominance over your life. For your righteousness before God rests in what Jesus did for you at Calvary, not obedience to the law.
The great Evangelist Kathryn Khulman said, “Christ died to pay the penalty of your sin, and he died to break the power of sin.” By achieving the first, the second automatically follows.
God created a covenant whereby he put the desire in your heart to obey Him − you have been born again. Because that is the case, Jesus paid the penalty of your sin, but though he paid the penalty of your sin, the law remains intact on your heart. By Jesus paying that penalty, He removed the true power of sin from your life. Now what happens, friend, if you take the power of something away? It must weaken, mustn’t it? Nothing else is possible. The Christian’s born again heartfelt desire to obey can now come to fruition, for Jesus’ sacrifice at Calvary has fatally weakened sin, which is what opposes obedience. So Paul states in Romans 3:31, “Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? [a righteousness of faith in Christ-not obedience to the law] Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.” (NIV, emphasis mine)
 
Oct 21, 2015
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uh yeah, by denying our will.


But the Christian has been born again, they in their heart want to obey. Obedience comes from faith(Rom 1:5) and putting no confidence in the flesh(Phil3:9)
Then God has all the glory, that is what he wants. And those who truly love God in their hearts want him to have all the glory, they don't seek it for themselves
 
Nov 22, 2015
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I die daily was already dealt with..nothing to do with the old man

Galations 5:24 have crucified the flesh ...The flesh is not the old man..he's dead..dead..dead

The flesh is what is left over after in the body
..the old man = dead...now we have a new man

walk according to the flesh = bad stuff happening

walk according to the Spirit ( our inner man where Christ lives in us ) = good stuff happening

Old man not involved in any of this...because he is a goner!..buried with Christ!

I know this is what we have been taught in the past....honest viewing of scripture just goes doesn't back it up.

It's all in "seeing" the new creation in Christ and understanding what the circumcision of Christ and the flesh is. The Holy Spirit has sealed our inner person from our flesh. We are still responsible for what we choose to do..either walk according to the flesh or according to the Spirit.


Do I need to post the many verses that say this? How about a few for starts.

... I die daily. 1 Corinthians 15:31

And they that are Christ's crucify the flesh with the affections and lusts. Galatians 5:24

Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able to, Luke 13:24
 
Sep 4, 2012
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But the Christian has been born again, they in their heart want to obey. Obedience comes from faith(Rom 1:5) and putting no confidence in the flesh(Phil3:9)
Then God has all the glory, that is what he wants. And those who truly love God in their hearts want him to have all the glory, they don't seek it for themselves
Your flesh doesn't want to obey.
 
Oct 21, 2015
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Your flesh doesn't want to obey.

Of course it doesn't. But your born again heart does.
Obedience comes by faith in Christ and the power of the holy Spirit within you.
You have to look away from yourself and to Christ
 
Sep 4, 2012
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I die daily was already dealt with..nothing to do with the old man

Galations 5:24 have crucified the flesh ...The flesh is not the old man..he's dead..dead..dead

The flesh is what is left over after in the body
..the old man = dead...now we have a new man

walk according to the flesh = bad stuff happening

walk according to the Spirit ( our inner man where Christ lives in us ) = good stuff happening

Old man not involved in any of this...because he is a goner!..buried with Christ!

I know this is what we have been taught in the past....honest viewing of scripture just goes doesn't back it up.

It's all in "seeing" the new creation in Christ and understanding what the circumcision of Christ and the flesh is. The Holy Spirit has sealed our inner person from our flesh. We are still responsible for what we choose to do..either walk according to the flesh or according to the Spirit.
You're in denial due to your compartmentalization. Your old man is dead in God's eyes, but very much alive on this earth. If you don't put the old man and his longings to death, and walk in the spirit you will die.
 
Oct 21, 2015
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You're in denial due to your compartmentalization. Your old man is dead in God's eyes, but very much alive on this earth. If you don't put the old man and his longings to death, and walk in the spirit you will die.
You cannot put your flesh to death