Hyper grace
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This is mixing the covenants. Forgiveness under the Old Covenant was based on you forgiving. Jesus model prayer here was for that time while they where still under the law. You do this...and I God will do this in return.
The New Covenant did not begin at Matthew 1:1. It started when He went to the Father. Jesus lived under the law so that He could fulfill it for us and not have it hanging over our heads anymore.
Galatians 4:4 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law,
Part of this model prayer is "Your kingdom come..your will be done" The disciples prayed this prayer until the kingdom came after the cross. The kingdom of God is now inside us after the cross. DO we pray for the kingdom to come?..it's here now inside us! Thank God!
Can we learn things from this old covenant prayer that Jesus told His disciples to pray before He went to the cross?..of course we can!
Remember when the young ruler came and asked what must I do to be saved?..Jesus gave him the law..Keep the commandments. Now do we "keep the commandments" after Jesus died for us on the cross now to be saved?..of course not.
What is the grace-based answer Jesus gave to be saved? Believe on the One who the Father has sent. Believing on Christ for our salvation is fundamental to our Christian life.
So..what about forgiveness now?..is our forgiveness depending on whether we forgive others as it was in the Old Covenant?
Let's ask Paul seeing that Jesus gave him the revelation of Himself and the New Covenant.
Ephesians 1:7 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
Notice there is no IF you don't forgive..God will not forgive you. We HAVE the forgiveness of sins!
Colossians 3:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] bearing with one another, and forgiving each other, whoever has a complaint against anyone; just as the Lord forgave you, so also should you.
Here we forgive because Christ has already forgiven us.
See the difference? In the Old Covenant - you do and God will do
In the New Covenant - God has done it..we do it because we are forgiven and His life in us compels us the "be like Him"..when we see Him..we become like Him.
We have an awesome salvation!
The New Covenant did not begin at Matthew 1:1. It started when He went to the Father. Jesus lived under the law so that He could fulfill it for us and not have it hanging over our heads anymore.
Galatians 4:4 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law,
Part of this model prayer is "Your kingdom come..your will be done" The disciples prayed this prayer until the kingdom came after the cross. The kingdom of God is now inside us after the cross. DO we pray for the kingdom to come?..it's here now inside us! Thank God!
Can we learn things from this old covenant prayer that Jesus told His disciples to pray before He went to the cross?..of course we can!
Remember when the young ruler came and asked what must I do to be saved?..Jesus gave him the law..Keep the commandments. Now do we "keep the commandments" after Jesus died for us on the cross now to be saved?..of course not.
What is the grace-based answer Jesus gave to be saved? Believe on the One who the Father has sent. Believing on Christ for our salvation is fundamental to our Christian life.
So..what about forgiveness now?..is our forgiveness depending on whether we forgive others as it was in the Old Covenant?
Let's ask Paul seeing that Jesus gave him the revelation of Himself and the New Covenant.
Ephesians 1:7 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
Notice there is no IF you don't forgive..God will not forgive you. We HAVE the forgiveness of sins!
Colossians 3:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] bearing with one another, and forgiving each other, whoever has a complaint against anyone; just as the Lord forgave you, so also should you.
Here we forgive because Christ has already forgiven us.
See the difference? In the Old Covenant - you do and God will do
In the New Covenant - God has done it..we do it because we are forgiven and His life in us compels us the "be like Him"..when we see Him..we become like Him.
We have an awesome salvation!
I understand. Grace is scandalous! Preachers of grace will be called antinomian ..giving licence to sin. It's a sure sign that they are preaching the gospel that Paul preached. He had the exact same accusations against him.
Grace is offensive to the flesh! We want to "do" stuff! It's the way of the world. It's a hard thing for us humans to accept and to get around and ladylynn talked about earlier.
Grace is offensive to the flesh! We want to "do" stuff! It's the way of the world. It's a hard thing for us humans to accept and to get around and ladylynn talked about earlier.
As you mentioned a rabbit lol!
If you live under a law of righteousness, the penalty for sin remains. If you live under grace, the penalty of sin has been removed. Now Paul believed sin will not be your master, for you are not under law but under grace. So he is really saying that sin will not be your master, for you are not under the penalty attached to the law if you break it.
You see, it is the penalty of sin that makes you so fearful of sin, and your fear of sin produces great allurement in you to sin. If I said to you, “If you think of a pink rabbit, God will condemn you to hell,” what is the first thing you will think of if you believe me? You would try desperately never to think of such a creature, wouldn’t you? You would become agitated at the thought of a pink rabbit. You would be, animated, overwrought, disturbed, nervous, and panic stricken at the thought of the creature. You would end up in a frenzied state concerning it, I imagine. Now the more these emotions overcome you concerning the creature, the more the thought of the creature will overwhelm you; it will become irresistible. You see, however, as you know there is no penalty of condemnation in place if you think of a pink rabbit, you will not get worked up about it, will you? Paul states Romans 7:5-6:
For when we were in the realm of the flesh, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death.But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code. (NIV)
Paul tells us the law arouses sinful passions in us when we live under it. For he goes on to say we die to the law − we have been released from the law (of righteousness) as Christians and serve in the new way of the Spirit, not the old way of the written code (the law). Why does he say the law arouses sinful passions for those living under it?
Well, you see, the same emotions that would overcome you at the thought of a pink rabbit, if you believed such thoughts could condemn you, would also overcome you where sin is concerned if you live under the law. The penalty for sin is in place if you live under the law, isn’t it? Your sin, therefore can condemn you to hell. You would be extremely agitated at the thought of sin. You would be animated, overwrought, disturbed, nervous, and panic stricken at the thought of sin. Now the more these emotions concerning sin overcome you, the more sin will overwhelm you, and the more your ability to resist sin will weaken. Why is this? Because those emotions bring you to an excited state, friend. They are all bar panic-stricken definitions of the word excite. And the definition of panic-stricken is “frenzy,” and the definition of frenzy is “wild excitement.” The emotions that result from your fear of the penalty for sin bring you to a very excited (or aroused) state where sin is concerned. If you live under the law, therefore, your fear of breaking it (sin) results in sinful passions being aroused in you. That is why Paul tells us the law arouses sinful passions in us if we live under it.
If you live under a law of righteousness, the penalty for sin remains. If you live under grace, the penalty of sin has been removed. Now Paul believed sin will not be your master, for you are not under law but under grace. So he is really saying that sin will not be your master, for you are not under the penalty attached to the law if you break it.
You see, it is the penalty of sin that makes you so fearful of sin, and your fear of sin produces great allurement in you to sin. If I said to you, “If you think of a pink rabbit, God will condemn you to hell,” what is the first thing you will think of if you believe me? You would try desperately never to think of such a creature, wouldn’t you? You would become agitated at the thought of a pink rabbit. You would be, animated, overwrought, disturbed, nervous, and panic stricken at the thought of the creature. You would end up in a frenzied state concerning it, I imagine. Now the more these emotions overcome you concerning the creature, the more the thought of the creature will overwhelm you; it will become irresistible. You see, however, as you know there is no penalty of condemnation in place if you think of a pink rabbit, you will not get worked up about it, will you? Paul states Romans 7:5-6:
For when we were in the realm of the flesh, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death.But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code. (NIV)
Paul tells us the law arouses sinful passions in us when we live under it. For he goes on to say we die to the law − we have been released from the law (of righteousness) as Christians and serve in the new way of the Spirit, not the old way of the written code (the law). Why does he say the law arouses sinful passions for those living under it?
Well, you see, the same emotions that would overcome you at the thought of a pink rabbit, if you believed such thoughts could condemn you, would also overcome you where sin is concerned if you live under the law. The penalty for sin is in place if you live under the law, isn’t it? Your sin, therefore can condemn you to hell. You would be extremely agitated at the thought of sin. You would be animated, overwrought, disturbed, nervous, and panic stricken at the thought of sin. Now the more these emotions concerning sin overcome you, the more sin will overwhelm you, and the more your ability to resist sin will weaken. Why is this? Because those emotions bring you to an excited state, friend. They are all bar panic-stricken definitions of the word excite. And the definition of panic-stricken is “frenzy,” and the definition of frenzy is “wild excitement.” The emotions that result from your fear of the penalty for sin bring you to a very excited (or aroused) state where sin is concerned. If you live under the law, therefore, your fear of breaking it (sin) results in sinful passions being aroused in you. That is why Paul tells us the law arouses sinful passions in us if we live under it.
We absolutely believe in Christ interceding for us with His Blood! Thank God He took our sin away just like John the Baptist said..Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world ( John didn't say..wait....there is a hidden clause...He will only take your sin away if you confess every one..)..we confess we were sinners that needed His grace and forgiveness..now we believe in His finished work..His blood speaks of better things!
At least in the Old Covenant the person had their sins covered for one year. They had it better back then this " get it under the blood" mentality. The Blood has been applied already on the altar in heaven and it ever lives! Believe it and receive it! This is a New Covenant built upon better promises...Jesus blood speaks of better things.
At least in the Old Covenant the person had their sins covered for one year. They had it better back then this " get it under the blood" mentality. The Blood has been applied already on the altar in heaven and it ever lives! Believe it and receive it! This is a New Covenant built upon better promises...Jesus blood speaks of better things.
This conversation started when crossnote responded to a post in which I wrote that people were healed of pornography addiction and smoking through following the truth of grace. Crossnote then criticised the post and in a following post stated not all of the faithful are healed. I then asked hjim, if he believed ALL the faithful who follow the truth of the Gospel will be healed of pornography addiction and smoking if they desire to be. Despite my repeated requests for an answer he never gave one. As you are responding to posts in that conversation may I ask you the same question.
Do you believe healing of pornographic addiction and smoking are available for ALL of the faithful if they follow the true message of Grace?
Do you believe healing of pornographic addiction and smoking are available for ALL of the faithful if they follow the true message of Grace?
Jesus showed them how to pray then before He died ..until the kingdom came. Under the Old Covenant we pray for this now!
We need to look at all the scriptures with the lens of the New Covenant. If we don't we are going to be mixing up the covenants and end up with a bunch of people taking the wrong medicine
Jesus gave the law to those who were thinking they could live by the law. He brought on Moses 2.0 though to expose their failure. ( Like ...if you even think about a woman to lust in your mind..you have broke the law..be perfect!..who can be perfect?? )
He gave grace to those who recognized their need of Him
Jesus was the greatest law preacher and at the same time the greatest grace teacher.
Don't take someone else's medicine!
We need to look at all the scriptures with the lens of the New Covenant. If we don't we are going to be mixing up the covenants and end up with a bunch of people taking the wrong medicine
Jesus gave the law to those who were thinking they could live by the law. He brought on Moses 2.0 though to expose their failure. ( Like ...if you even think about a woman to lust in your mind..you have broke the law..be perfect!..who can be perfect?? )
He gave grace to those who recognized their need of Him
Jesus was the greatest law preacher and at the same time the greatest grace teacher.
Don't take someone else's medicine!
We have a new nature.We need to see the new creation that we are in Christ. We are not evil now that Jesus took our place.
Ephesians 4:23-24 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind,
[SUP]24 [/SUP] and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth.
..has been created ( aorist tense - past tense..passive = it was done to you..you don't so it ) We are new creations in Christ! Praise the Lord!
We are the righteousness of God in Christ!
2 Corinthians 5:21 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
But you are free to call yourself "evil"...we all have a "chooser" in us!
Ephesians 4:23-24 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind,
[SUP]24 [/SUP] and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth.
..has been created ( aorist tense - past tense..passive = it was done to you..you don't so it ) We are new creations in Christ! Praise the Lord!
We are the righteousness of God in Christ!
2 Corinthians 5:21 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
But you are free to call yourself "evil"...we all have a "chooser" in us!
The Corinthian church had dissensions and back-biting..devouring one another along with sexual sins. They were carnal and not able to partake of meat because they were babes...inexperienced in the word of righteousness. This is why he said to them first before dealing with sin, that they are righteousness , sanctification, wisdom, redemption. He told them who they were in Christ first before dealing with any behavior issues.
The meat is understanding the "word of righteousness":
Hebrews 5:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For everyone who partakes only of milk is not accustomed to the word of righteousness, for he is an infant.
The meat is understanding the "word of righteousness":
Hebrews 5:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For everyone who partakes only of milk is not accustomed to the word of righteousness, for he is an infant.
The bible nowhere says that we are the righteousness of GOD. It says that Christ is our righteousness, and that Christ paid for our sins that we may become the righteousness of GOD. Until then we live through the faith that GOD in his grace passes over the judgment due us through the imputed righteousness of Christ.
You don't believe in imputed righteousness. You believe you have been made righteous. If you were righteous, you wouldn't need GOD's grace. You think grace was a one-time deal that made you perfect, and now all you have to do is believe it; and you call that grace. That is no different than the mental sleight-of-hand that sinless perfectionists use to deceive themselves.
You don't believe in imputed righteousness. You believe you have been made righteous. If you were righteous, you wouldn't need GOD's grace. You think grace was a one-time deal that made you perfect, and now all you have to do is believe it; and you call that grace. That is no different than the mental sleight-of-hand that sinless perfectionists use to deceive themselves.
Us Christians that base our walk with God on what "we do" and walking according to the flesh ( which is self-effort..law righteousness ). Like Hagar ( that had the son according to the flesh with Abraham ) persecuted the son of the promise.
This is a type of trying to fulfill the promise of God ( salvation in our case) through the flesh or through the Spirit.
Believers in the grace of Christ alone will always be persecuted by those that what "to do" their salvation.
Galatians 4:29-31 (NASB)
[SUP]29 [/SUP] But as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so it is now also.
[SUP]30 [/SUP] But what does the Scripture say? "CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN AND HER SON, FOR THE SON OF THE BONDWOMAN SHALL NOT BE AN HEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREE WOMAN."
[SUP]31 [/SUP] So then, brethren, we are not children of a bondwoman, but of the free woman.
This is a type of trying to fulfill the promise of God ( salvation in our case) through the flesh or through the Spirit.
Believers in the grace of Christ alone will always be persecuted by those that what "to do" their salvation.
Galatians 4:29-31 (NASB)
[SUP]29 [/SUP] But as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so it is now also.
[SUP]30 [/SUP] But what does the Scripture say? "CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN AND HER SON, FOR THE SON OF THE BONDWOMAN SHALL NOT BE AN HEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREE WOMAN."
[SUP]31 [/SUP] So then, brethren, we are not children of a bondwoman, but of the free woman.