The Immaculate Conception Error

[KennethC]

The endless drumbeat of "Mary worship" is false, insulting, and hateful and explanations are ignored. . Equating the Catholic Church with the Whore of Babylon is scripture twisting at its worst, and is hate speech, not to mention sadistic stupidity. Insulting the Pope with nothing substantial other than bigotry and ignorance, or headlines from cheap tabloids, is hate speech.

Rule #2. No conduct that is offensive or counterproductive to fellowship.
We like to welcome all to Christian Chat, but if anyone is not here for fellowship (or for wanting to know about Christianity), but simply for disrupting fellowship, offending people, whatever, then that person is not welcome.

(but offending Catholics is ok, that's called a double standard)

But this anti-Catholic forum is not alone. Philip Jenkin's, a non-Catholic sociology professor, has a book:
The New Anti-Catholicism, The Last Acceptable Prejudice.
here is a review:

Anti-Catholicism has a long history in America. And as Philip Jenkins argues in The New Anti-Catholicism, this virulent strain of hatred--once thought dead--is alive and well in our nation, but few people seem to notice, or care. A statement that is seen as racist, misogynistic, anti-Semitic, or homophobic can haunt a speaker for years, writes Jenkins, but it is still possible to make hostile and vituperative public statements about Roman Catholicism without fear of serious repercussions. Jenkins shines a light on anti-Catholic sentiment in American society and illuminates its causes, looking closely at gay and feminist anti-Catholicism, anti-Catholic rhetoric and imagery in the media, and the anti-Catholicism of the academic world. For newspapers and news magazines, for television news and in movies, for major book publishers, the Catholic Church has come to provide a grossly stereotyped public villain. Catholic opinions, doctrines, and individual leaders are frequently the butt of harsh satire. Indeed, the notion that the church is a deadly enemy of women--the idea of Catholic misogyny--is commonly accepted in the news media and in popular culture, says Jenkins. And the recent pedophile priest scandal, he shows, has revived many ancient anti-Catholic stereotypes. It was said that with the election of John F. Kennedy, anti-Catholicism in America was dead. This provocative new book corrects that illusion, drawing attention to this important issue.
http://www.amazon.ca/The-New-Anti-Catholicism-Acceptable-Prejudice/dp/0195176049

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY - Catholic League

[h=1]Matthew 510 “Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.[/h]11 “Blessed are you when people revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely[a] on my account. 12 Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Why is it always us? Because the Catholic Church is the true church founded by Jesus Christ.


​

The last statement right there is one of your issues.

The part that Catholics are told Jesus founded their church.

Error is because the Catholic church was not founded tell the 4th century.

The term catholic was not even used tell the 2nd century (101-200 AD).

Well after the Church started, and in the 2nd and 3rd centuries it was never used as the one true church aspect of today.

It was only used to describe the universal aspect that anybody no matter what race or background can be a follower of Christ.

It was never to be used as the title of the one true Church, because the Church is not a building, or a denominationd.

The Church is the believers in Christ !!!

If you believe in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour you are part of the Church.

 

[KenAllan]

So i guess epostle, showing where God says in the Scriptures that everybody is a sinner is offensive and counterproductive to fellowship?

Are you epostle saying that its offensive and counterproductive to fellowship when God teaches anything the Catholic Church hates?

I believe its offensive and counterproductive to fellowship when you misinterpret the Scriptures to justify your teaching that Mary was without sin.

 

[KenAllan]

Yes epostle its true that if you tell a lie and keep repeating it long enough people will come to believe in it.

Just like the lie that Mary was without sin.

Just like the lie that Mary is our Mediator.

Just like the lie that Mary was assumed into Heaven.

AND just like the lie that not all the Truths from God are in the Scriptures.

AND just like the lie there are sources of Truth outside of God.

You have given in to the lies of the Catholic Church epostle.

 

[epostle]

WARNING: The video footage included below is shocking and contains violence and censored nudity. Viewer discretion is advised.

Mar de Plata, October 13, 2015 (LifeSiteNews) - A horrific and surreal scene unfolded Monday night outside the Cathedral of Mar de Plata in Argentina as hordes of women, many of them masked and half naked, violently assaulted a group of young men who stood outside the Cathedral of Mar de Plata praying and standing watch.

Such violence is becoming the norm for the annual March for Women in the Pope's native land of Argentina, although this year's violence seemed to be the most extreme yet, with the women turning their violence against the police, and even attempting to set the Cathedral on fire.
<strong style="box-sizing: border-box;">[video=youtube;T0BsB0BOgGo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0BsB0BOgGo[/video]

The difference between certain ChristianChat anti-Catholics and the above radicals is profound,
and so are the similarities.

 

[KenAllan]

Rule #2. No conduct that is offensive or counterproductive to fellowship.
We like to welcome all to Christian Chat, but if anyone is not here for fellowship (or for wanting to know about Christianity), but simply for disrupting fellowship, offending people, whatever, then that person is not welcome.

You have just broken rule #2 epostle.

 

[epostle]

Just to remind KenAllen

for believing his own lies, and worse, preaching them.

 

[KenAllan]

Rule #2. No conduct that is offensive or counterproductive to fellowship.
We like to welcome all to Christian Chat, but if anyone is not here for fellowship (or for wanting to know about Christianity), but simply for disrupting fellowship, offending people, whatever, then that person is not welcome.

Again epostle you have broken rule #2.

 

[KenAllan]

You are disrupting fellowship and offending me. You are breaking Rule #2 epostle.

 

[epostle]

The Masons plotted to destroy the Catholic Church in Mexico beginning in 1917..."
The Mexican Government Versus the Catholic Church

"...In 1914, President Carranza, put in place by the US, inaugurated a period of open persecution: priests were massacred (160 were killed in Mexico in February, 1915). John Lind, one of Woodrow Wilson's advisors, rejoiced over the news: "Great news! The more priests they kill in Mexico, the happier I shall be!" An American pastor, indignant about the outraging of the nuns in Vera Cruz, received this reply from Wilson's personal representative: "After prostitution, the worst thing in Mexico is the Catholic Church. Both must disappear!"[SUP]13

[/SUP][SIZE=+0]In 1924, Plutarco Elias Calles became President. For this descendant of Spanish Jews,[SUP]14[/SUP] a 33rd degree Mason, "the Church is the unique cause of all Mexico's misfortunes." For him, too, she had to disappear.[SUP]15[/SUP] With the complicity of a Masonic priest, Fr. Perez, proclaimed by the government "Patriarch of the Mexican Catholic Church," Calles founded a schismatic "patriotic Church," as the Communists were to do later in China.[SUP]16[/SUP] The wine used in the Mass was replaced by mescal. But the maneuver was met with widespread contempt. The government could finance the opening of 200 Protestant schools and Calles could smooth the way for heretical sects (already well financed by the US), but the Mexican people remained stubbornly attached to Rome![/SIZE]
[SIZE=+0]In 1926, the president and his clique launched a new offensive which they hoped to be definitive: "Now there must be a psychological revolution," Calles declared. "We must penetrate and take hold of the minds of the children and the youth because they must belong to the revolution." The Catholic schools were shut down, the congregations expelled, Christian trade unions forbidden, numerous churches confiscated and profaned (turned into stables or halls) or destroyed. Public school attendance became mandatory, atheism was officially taught, and religious insignia (medals, crucifixes, statues, and pictures) were forbidden, even at home.
[/SIZE]THE CRISTEROS

Well, if those on my ignore list aren't Masons, they sure act like them.

 

[KennethC]

Rule #2. No conduct that is offensive or counterproductive to fellowship.
We like to welcome all to Christian Chat, but if anyone is not here for fellowship (or for wanting to know about Christianity), but simply for disrupting fellowship, offending people, whatever, then that person is not welcome.

Again epostle you have broken rule #2.

I know a couple OSASers on here as well that break that rule often.

 

[Roberth]

Acts 17:11 Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

In other words they used the Scripture, the OT, to verify if Paul's words were in line with what had been written.

Galatians 1:8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!

In other words if one wants to know what gospel that Paul preached he/she must get it from the NT Bible.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Nothing here is said of tradition. The Bible and the Bible alone is the measuring stick of truth.

You are a historical revisionist and not worth my time.

Is 8:20 To the law (OT) and to the testimony (NT): if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

 

[Roberth]

Is 8:20 To the law (OT) and to the testimony (NT): if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

"Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the command of God our Savior and of Christ Jesus our hope" [1 Tim 1:1]

"Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God" [2 Tim 1:1]

Paul is the apostle to the Gentiles (see Acts 13:46/Gal 1:15,16). He became an apostle by the will of God.

If you want to know what Paul thought of "the man of sin" read the Bible, especially his letters.

That makes the Bible the standard - the measuring stick of truth.

 

[epostle]

Certain anti-Catholic liars and bigots don't remember Pope John Paul II being shot. I have to wonder if they are sorry the plot to kill the Pope failed, given their irrational hatred for the Church.

[video]www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwTOLL404JA[/video]

OnOctober 22, 1978, Pope John Paul II stepped out on to the balcony in St. Peters Square and proclaimed:

"Be Not Afraid!Open up, no; swing wide the gates to Christ. Open up to his saving power the confines of the State, open up economic and political systems, the vast empires of culture, civilization and development….Be not afraid!"

Affirmed by many as one of the chief architects ofthe Second Vatican Council and its extraordinary document on therelationship of the Church to the “modern” world”(entitled "Joy and Hope" or “Gaudium et Spes” in Latin), this strong, passionate, charismatic priest and Bishop now occupied the chair of Peter

.At a critical time in the history of both the Church and the world, he stepped forward like a lion, with a prophetic roar...

...Hestrode onto that platform with strength and vitality. This mountainclimbing Polish Pope was so filled with the love of God it wascontagious. A talented and gifted "man of letters", a playwright, a philosopher, an intellectual giant, a poet, but more importantly, a genuine human being with a heart that embraced the whole world, like the Heart of the One whom he represents on earth.

Hetruly has been the “Vicar of Christ”, representing the Lord, theKing of Kings, for so many millions throughout the world.

Likea lion in Peter’s chair, he consistently and tirelessly lived whathe boldly proclaimed with great courage. Unafraid, he traversed the globe, proclaiming freedom to the captives and truth to the victims of failed false ideologies that had ravaged the people of the twentieth century, the bloodiest in all of human history.

He has not stopped passionately re-presenting the classical, unchanging,Christian message with a prophetic urgency, profound clarity and contemporary relevance.

Communism, atheism, secularism, false humanisms … have now all been exposed in both their empty promises and the horrors that they unleashed in the wake of their false utopian claims.

This Pope proclaimed that the “Redeemer of Man” (the title of his first encyclical letter), Jesus Christ, is the path to authenticpersonal, social and universal freedom!

He authored more encyclical letters, apostolic exhortations, constitutions and letters than any Pope in the two thousand year history of the Christian Church. In these writings and so many allocutions, this marvelous man has given us a treasury to unpack for centuries.

He has meticulously and brilliantly developed themes during his service to the Church and the world. Among them;"The Culture of Life", "The Civilization of Love","The New Evangelization", "The New Springtime of world missions ", "The Universal Call to holiness";"Christian Marriage and family life as a domestic church";

And further: "A Spirituality of Communion"; "The Theology of the Body"; "The Common Good"; "The Unity of Life"; "The New Humanism"; "The New feminism and the Feminine Genius"; "The Two Lungs of East and West";“A New Catholic Action", and a “New Advent” for all of humanity in Jesus Christ.

The Pope’s rich teaching sets a framework for what I believe will be a five hundred year renewal of the Church and, through her, a transformation of the entirety of human culture, including the arts, politics, the academy, and economic and political theory ;

• because no area of human experience is “off-limits” to the influence of the Gospel and the Church. The Church is, in the words of the Fathers of the second Vatican Council, an “expert in humanity”.

Pope John Paul II has called all men and women to the Redeemer, Jesus Christ. In Him they are invited to discover the purpose and fulfillment of human life itself. He has proclaimed the profound truth that human existence itself is an invitation to communion with God and with one another.

He has proclaimed to an age bent of “self fulfillment” that we only find our human fulfillment in giving ourselves in love to God and to one another.

He calls us to live a dynamic, integrated Christian faith and lifestyle,what he calls a “unity of life”, wherein the implications of the Christian faith inform the entirety of ones life with no contradiction or separation...

I could go on. The point is...this is what certain so called "Christians" hate?

 

[KenAllan]

Did you know epostle that Pope John Paul II gave ALL Glory to Mary for saving his life? Not once did he ever thank God for saving him. All the Glory and Praise that was due to God Pope John Paul II gave to Mary instead!

It does not matter what the Catholic Church says about how great Pope John Paul II was because Mary was his god, not Jesus.

Pope John Paul II will spend Eternity in the Lake of Fire with his god Satan.

 

[KenAllan]

Jesus said:

John 14:6
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

Its through Jesus we come to the Father, not through Mary like Catholicism teaches. Not through Pope John Paul II either!

 

[valiant]

Certain anti-Catholic liars and bigots don't remember Pope John Paul II being shot. I have to wonder if they are sorry the plot to kill the Pope failed, given their irrational hatred for the Church.

[video]www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwTOLL404JA[/video]

OnOctober 22, 1978, Pope John Paul II stepped out on to the balcony in St. Peters Square and proclaimed:

"Be Not Afraid!Open up, no; swing wide the gates to Christ. Open up to his saving power the confines of the State, open up economic and political systems, the vast empires of culture, civilization and development….Be not afraid!"

Affirmed by many as one of the chief architects ofthe Second Vatican Council and its extraordinary document on therelationship of the Church to the “modern” world”(entitled "Joy and Hope" or “Gaudium et Spes” in Latin), this strong, passionate, charismatic priest and Bishop now occupied the chair of Peter

.At a critical time in the history of both the Church and the world, he stepped forward like a lion, with a prophetic roar...

...Hestrode onto that platform with strength and vitality. This mountainclimbing Polish Pope was so filled with the love of God it wascontagious. A talented and gifted "man of letters", a playwright, a philosopher, an intellectual giant, a poet, but more importantly, a genuine human being with a heart that embraced the whole world, like the Heart of the One whom he represents on earth.

Hetruly has been the “Vicar of Christ”, representing the Lord, theKing of Kings, for so many millions throughout the world.

Likea lion in Peter’s chair, he consistently and tirelessly lived whathe boldly proclaimed with great courage. Unafraid, he traversed the globe, proclaiming freedom to the captives and truth to the victims of failed false ideologies that had ravaged the people of the twentieth century, the bloodiest in all of human history.

He has not stopped passionately re-presenting the classical, unchanging,Christian message with a prophetic urgency, profound clarity and contemporary relevance.

Communism, atheism, secularism, false humanisms … have now all been exposed in both their empty promises and the horrors that they unleashed in the wake of their false utopian claims.

This Pope proclaimed that the “Redeemer of Man” (the title of his first encyclical letter), Jesus Christ, is the path to authenticpersonal, social and universal freedom!

He authored more encyclical letters, apostolic exhortations, constitutions and letters than any Pope in the two thousand year history of the Christian Church. In these writings and so many allocutions, this marvelous man has given us a treasury to unpack for centuries.

He has meticulously and brilliantly developed themes during his service to the Church and the world. Among them;"The Culture of Life", "The Civilization of Love","The New Evangelization", "The New Springtime of world missions ", "The Universal Call to holiness";"Christian Marriage and family life as a domestic church";

And further: "A Spirituality of Communion"; "The Theology of the Body"; "The Common Good"; "The Unity of Life"; "The New Humanism"; "The New feminism and the Feminine Genius"; "The Two Lungs of East and West";“A New Catholic Action", and a “New Advent” for all of humanity in Jesus Christ.

The Pope’s rich teaching sets a framework for what I believe will be a five hundred year renewal of the Church and, through her, a transformation of the entirety of human culture, including the arts, politics, the academy, and economic and political theory ;

• because no area of human experience is “off-limits” to the influence of the Gospel and the Church. The Church is, in the words of the Fathers of the second Vatican Council, an “expert in humanity”.

Pope John Paul II has called all men and women to the Redeemer, Jesus Christ. In Him they are invited to discover the purpose and fulfillment of human life itself. He has proclaimed the profound truth that human existence itself is an invitation to communion with God and with one another.

He has proclaimed to an age bent of “self fulfillment” that we only find our human fulfillment in giving ourselves in love to God and to one another.

He calls us to live a dynamic, integrated Christian faith and lifestyle,what he calls a “unity of life”, wherein the implications of the Christian faith inform the entirety of ones life with no contradiction or separation...

I could go on. The point is...this is what certain so called "Christians" hate?

you should start unpacking LOL

this is called exaggeration and lauding a man to the skies as rhetoric. you should be a scriptwriter LOL

But he forgot to do any miracles on earth. So he had to do them from Heaven in order to be sainted LOL

 

[MikeHenderson]

You do know epostle that Pope John Paul II never was a True Christian?

It does not matter what he said because Pope John Paul II had never received Salvation before he died.

Its interesting that the Catholic Church claimed he performed a miracle. What miracle? It was the healing of a French nun from Parkinson's disease. It was by the lying of other Catholics that they said he performed this miracle.

Do you see how evil Catholicism is when they lie and proclaim their Popes can preform miracles that cannot be verified outside of the Catholic Church?

When will you understand epostle that nothing good can ever come out of the Catholic Church?

 

[joeyruready]

Jesus was never a sinner.

He is misquoting this verse: 2 Corinthians 5:21[SUP]21 [/SUP]For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

 

[PaulMack]

Jesus was without sin, Jesus never sinned.

Hebrews 4:15
[SUP]15 [/SUP] For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.

 

[BradC]

But that's not true at all....Jesus was "of the seed of David according to the flesh. He was "born of a woman".

Jesus was born in the 'likeness of sinful flesh' without sin. When he was made to be sin for us it started with the 'likeness of sinful flesh' as a man and on the cross our sin was imputed to him and he suffered the wages of our sin. In his life on earth he knew no sin though he was tempted in all points as we are, yet without sin. The term phrase, 'knew no sin & yet without sin' is two fold, no indwelling sin and no disobedience that led to sin.

He was a friend of sinners without partaking of man's sin. The sin that Christ became was imputed or laid to his charge by the Father. He was not born with sin as we are and was never acquainted with it. All of his imaginations and thoughts as a man from birth were without sin and iniquity alienating us from him. He, as the Son of God, was tempted of the devil in the wilderness with temptations not common to man. To take away sin you must be free from sin and to put sin away you must be a perfect sacrifice without spot of blemish.

Isaiah 53:6 " All we like sheep have gone astray (estranged from the womb PS 58:3), we have turned everyone to his own way, and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

The writer identified himself with and as the wicked by using 'we' and 'us'. The word for 'laid on him' is paga, which is translated ' to burden with' or 'to meet out and fall upon'. This is an outward burden that feel upon him concerning our sin and iniquity.