Hyper grace

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BenFTW said:
Yes, and in some ways it reveals a subtly of self-righteousness. Mostly due to people being bombarded with sin, sin, and more sin. Don't do this and don't do that instead of preaching grace and victory to people. Basically just demolishing their dreams and grandeur of being righteous in and of themselves.

You see, the fire and brimstone preacher would hit you over the head with the ten commandments to no avail, whereas a grace preacher will lead you to Jesus and allow the revelation of God's grace and mercy to transform you. No longer tearing you down to strive to be something you are incapable of being through self-efforts but renewing your mind to who you are in Christ and who He has made you to be.
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I am glad we both believe I grace and also a christian is sin conscious
 
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
That's not what I meant. By sin-focused I meant dwelling on sin rather than Christ, which brings condemnation. By sin awareness I meant dwelling on Christ's grace. We cannot not walk in grace without being aware of our sinfulness. Grace means passing over of judgment rightfully due. Being aware of sin in the light of grace does not bring condemnation; it brings gratitude.
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True enough, and I am not saying otherwise. Maybe the terminology is confusing or can be misunderstood, but as I said in previous posts, to not be sin-conscious is not to be in denial of sin. It is only to not be focused on it. :)
 
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james57 said:
That does not suprise me you gave me that answer you couldnt say anything else could you. Do you remember that post I wrote saying how I could look back on my life trying to attain heaven as a Pharisee and I quoted rom7:7-11

You said that hinged on, the assumption Paul didn't try as a christian to obey the law( of righteousness)
So if you admitted now Paul was told by any of the people mentioned he was not under a law of righteousness as a christian you would then have to admit you were wrong. And you are not going to do that are you

I leave it up to the unbaised observer if they believe it us credible that neither, Ananias, Barnabas, the disciples in Damascus, or the Apostles in Jerusalem made sure Paul understood the core of the christian faith before he left them

As i said, it is a waste of time. Peoples first concern is not spiritual truth, but saying anything to avoid admitting to error
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Honestly, the way you think is so confusing to me that I really don't know what you're talking about. The words law of righteousness mean something very important to you, but it doesn't to me. I just call it the law. You seem to imbue it with something that has special significance to you, but I frankly don't understand.
 
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
Honestly, the way you think is so confusing to me that I really don't know what you're talking about. The words law of righteousness mean something very important to you, but it doesn't to me. I just call it the law. You seem to imbue it with something that has special significance to you, but I frankly don't understand.
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I understand very well, you cannot contemplate admitting to error, so this is why you write as you are now
 
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
You're assuming that Paul didn't try to keep the law as a Christian. Yet you yourself admit that you did try to keep the law as a Christian.
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HRFTD

My post you responded to in the above was concerning me trying to attain to heaven under the law

As per your response. Would those I have repeatedly mentioned to you not have told Paul he was not under the law( of righteousness) as a christian
 
james57 said:
I am glad we both believe I grace and also a christian is sin conscious
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Right, but I would say a Christian can be (instead of is) sin conscious, and to be honest which of us aren't? The goal should be to get to a place of rest where sin doesn't ruin your confidence and intimacy with the Lord. You may still sin, but such sin doesn't alienate you from the Lord because you are aware of His grace and the blood of Jesus Christ cleansing you from all unrighteousness.

So, yes, Christians are sin conscious (doesn't make it right) but should go through a process of growing in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ in order to have confidence before the Lord that is not affected by sin. Sin being taken care of by Jesus, and sin not having dominion over us for we are not under the law, but grace. Is there a Christian who isn't sin conscious? It may be a matter of degree, but we must continue to pour His truth into our hearts about His grace and no condemnation so that sin is but a fleeting thought and Christ is centerfold.
 
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
Honestly, the way you think is so confusing to me that I really don't know what you're talking about. The words law of righteousness mean something very important to you, but it doesn't to me. I just call it the law. You seem to imbue it with something that has special significance to you, but I frankly don't understand.
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If I mention law of righteousness you do not know what I am talking about????

Does anyone else not understand the term law of righteousness in Thi debate?
 
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
That's pretty funny. You ask me a question, I respond, and then you accuse me of not admitting to error.
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I will put my original post up, then your response to it. If there I anyone in this debate who is fair minded and honest they will understand why i have asked you the question about Paul knowing if he is under a law of righteousness and they will draw the correct conclusions
 
Christians are sin conscious because preachers preach condemnation and dos and donts in the name of Christ instead of Christ crucified.
 
james57 said:
I responded to an altar call when I was young and set out on the christian path. What I didn't know then was, I tried to attain heaven EXACTLY as Paul the Pharisee did. Do you understand that? I was in earnest not to commit sin in order to attain heaven. Again I couldn't at that age relate it to law keeping or much more, for i understood little. But i was determined to live a pure and holy life for God.
The first thing I noticed was I became sin conscious. On the outside I could appear to be the perfect christian, but in the inside I started to become heavy and depressed because I knew on the inside I could not be sinless. My personality became affected, I wasn't such a nice person anymore because of the inner turmoil. I had no peace, whereas before I became a christian I did have peace. Sin grew in me at a rapid rate. In a sense I was dying.
Now I know of grace I can look back at that time and see clearly concerning it. How should i describe that tine of my life when I in reality tried to attain heaven as a Pharisee? How could I now rooted in the christian faith describe it?

I hadn't known sin before the law came to me. I hadn't known lust before the commandment/ law came to me. But through knowledge of the law or commandment all manner of concupiscence was aroused in me.


I had felt alive before the law came to me, but when it did come sin( consciousness) sprang to life in me and i died. The commandment that was ordained( in my view) to give me life( if i obeyed it) instead brought death( for i could not keep it)
Sin through the law had slew me
However I know there wad nothing wrong with Gods good and holy laws, the problem was my sin

Like I say, at the time I did not know this/ I could not have reasoned or seen that was what happened. But now as a christian looking back on my past when I tried to attain heaven as a Pharisee i can see it.

You simply don't understand, few do.
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............
 
james57 said:
Really?

I will put it another way. After spending time with Ananias, Barnabas, the disciples in damascus and the Apostles in Jerusalem was Paul left with the belief heaven hinged on obeying the law. Or, had he been told by the people mentioned he was not under a law of righteousness before God
Just to be even clearer.
By the Tim he left the Apostles in Jerusalem did Paul understand as a christian he was not under a law of righteousness

You must understand now, I am sure everyone else does
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HeRoseFromTheDead said:
Christians are sin conscious because preachers preach condemnation and dos and donts in the name of Christ instead of Christ crucified.
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Precisely my point, they need a revelation of God's grace and the Lord is more than willing to share it. Jesus died for it, I think its a rather serious matter. He wants people to walk in victory, to reign in life.
 
It will probably be a bit too much to hope for to receive a fairminded opinion on the matter, but at least i tried
 
This looks like a good place for this scripture to come in...

Romans 5:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.


BenFTW said:
Precisely my point, they need a revelation of God's grace and the Lord is more than willing to share it. Jesus died for it, I think its a rather serious matter. He wants people to walk in victory, to reign in life.
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People can see all kinds of things in the Old Testament you can see the history of Israel, you can see prophecy against nations, but what people don't believe is that you will also seen God pronouncing punishments on you as well. Why? because the Old Testament is the ministry of death 2 Corinthians is talking about. It may have a purpose, but after that purpose is completed we are to cast it out and realise that it is written for the ungodly 1 Timothy 1:9
 
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