Young Earth creationism

[Tintin]

It almost sounds like you think God originally created Satan evil.

In Ezek.28, God showed that He originally created Satan perfect in his ways. Satan served God back then prior to his rebellion. He was even perfect in serving God then, which is what that means. So if you can understand it, when Satan was a good cherub following God, there was no... evil or sin in that time.

In 1 John 3, he said the devil sinned from the beginning. John is referring to the actual FIRST sin ever done, i.e., Satan coveting God's Throne and drawing a third of the angels into rebellion with him. Since Satan was already in God's Eden as "that old serpent" tempting Eve, then it means he had already sinned, even before Adam and Eve did.

Rev.12:3-4 reveals an old beast kingdom Satan first rebelled with, a beast system that had ten horns, seven heads, but only seven crowns. That one is not the one for the end in Rev.13 which has ten crowns. That one with seven crowns in Rev.12:3-4 is given in conjunction with the time of Satan drawing a third of the angels to the earth with him.

So where do you think Satan had that old beast kingdom with seven crowns setup against God? On this old earth is where.

Revelation isn't entirely linear. Also, it covers the same events from different perspectives (repeats them in different ways to really get the point across). I don't believe Revelation is as difficult or as easy to understand as some people here make it out to be.

 

[wincam]

lol.. Now who is talking silly. I already asked how all that water in the atmosphere could possibly cover the earth in a worldwide flood. Where ALL dry land is covered? which by the way, we know there is not enough water in the autmosphere to do this, let alone maintain rain across thr whole planet for 40 days and nights.

Again, if you just open you mind you may see, how the subteranian water column burst through the earth after a major catastrophic upheaval of the land (which started the continental drift I may add)

there is proof that this happened, but sadly I do not think you have any desire to discuss this your mind is made up.. so why are we even bothering?

the great mistaken thinking is that mountains had to be covered and covered they were in more ways than one due to turbulence and tilt the water was sloshed about and mountains due to water pressure appeared from sea beds with fish and marine fossils on mountain tops - before the global flood the earth was created very good viz flat, smooth, level, even and easily flooded - wincam

 

[DP]

Revelation isn't entirely linear. Also, it covers the same events from different perspectives (repeats them in different ways to really get the point across). I don't believe Revelation is as difficult or as easy to understand as some people here make it out to be.

Our Lord's Revelation is laid out very similar to how The Books of the OT prophets are, the timeline sometimes moving back and forward quickly. But recognizing the events so as to stay on subject, that's the matter.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You simply don't want to admit what the Gen.1:2-9 show about the location of those waters upon the earth, with God moving part of them up above the earth to form today's cloud atmosphere. The rest of those waters of Gen.1:2 He left upon the earth. And then He still had to move the waters left on the earth to make the dry land appear, again. So either way during Noah's flood, the waters just in the sky would have been enough to flood the earth.

Thats not what the text says though, It says the fountains of the great deep broke open. And it says the fountains kept pouring water into the atmosphere for 40 days until God closed them back up.

8 Then God remembered Noah, and every living thing, and all the animals that were with him in the ark. And God made a wind to pass over the earth, and the waters subsided. [SUP]2 [/SUP]The fountains of the deep and the windows of heaven were also stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained. [SUP]3[/SUP]

and I also said there was evidence of this occuring, But you seem to just want to argue.. Thats on you bud.

 

[DP]

Thats not what the text says though, It says the fountains of the great deep broke open. And it says the fountains kept pouring water into the atmosphere for 40 days until God closed them back up.

8 Then God remembered Noah, and every living thing, and all the animals that were with him in the ark. And God made a wind to pass over the earth, and the waters subsided. [SUP]2 [/SUP]The fountains of the deep and the windows of heaven were also stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained. [SUP]3[/SUP]

and I also said there was evidence of this occuring, But you seem to just want to argue.. Thats on you bud.

Gen 7:11-12
11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.


12 And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.
KJV

Can't exclude those waters in the sky being brought down on the earth.

Where's the great shaking of the earth in the Heb.12 level of comparison? It's not there. God did not shake the earth to create the flood of Noah's time.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Gen 7:11-12
11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.


12 And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.
KJV

Can't exclude those waters in the sky being brought down on the earth.

Where's the great shaking of the earth in the Heb.12 level of comparison? It's not there. God did not shake the earth to create the flood of Noah's time.

I never said no rain came from the heavens (sky), So all your doing is creating a strawman, and supporting your theories by saying something about me which is not true. That is not going to help you convince me of what you believe. all that will do is stop the discussion, because there can be no conversations if strawmen keep getting thrown around.

as far as your question, But you ignore the other souce of water, the fountains of the great deep (water underground, or in chambers of the earth)

Again, if you look in the hebrews. That is where they great shaking of the earth is..

 

[DP]

I never said no rain came from the heavens (sky), So all your doing is creating a strawman, and supporting your theories by saying something about me which is not true. That is not going to help you convince me of what you believe. all that will do is stop the discussion, because there can be no conversations if strawmen keep getting thrown around.

as far as your question, But you ignore the other souce of water, the fountains of the great deep (water underground, or in chambers of the earth)

Again, if you look in the hebrews. That is where they great shaking of the earth is..

I'm not the one here creating a "strawman" argument. You have failed to show Scripture of events like the end of Heb.12 happened during the time of Noah. And the reason is because there is nothing written like that about the time of the flood of Noah.

Furthermore, what you apparently don't see that you're inadvertently supporting, is a flood condition like the days of Noah at Gen.1:2, which has been my point all along. And that's the time the "Yet once more" of Heb.12 is actually pointing to.

 

[ATH1]

NayborBear,

Hello, You must have been reading some of my posts, lol I would sure like to discuss some of this stuff with you if you like.

humbly...allan

 

[pottersclay]

It is suggested by some that the battle between God and Satan happened between gen1:2 and 1:3 in a study done by Chuck missler on you tube.
In genesis the term the Lord's host or host of the Lord ...host is translated army, which may give a clue to the 2thirds of the angles left.
The flood of Noah was a world wide event from both the canopy falling and the secret caverns in the seas as far as I can tell. If it was just a local flood then God would be a liar as he said he would not do it again. We still have serious floods today.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I'm not the one here creating a "strawman" argument. You have failed to show Scripture of events like the end of Heb.12 happened during the time of Noah. And the reason is because there is nothing written like that about the time of the flood of Noah.

Furthermore, what you apparently don't see that you're inadvertently supporting, is a flood condition like the days of Noah at Gen.1:2, which has been my point all along. And that's the time the "Yet once more" of Heb.12 is actually pointing to.

Actually I did show it, Because you disagree does not mean I did not

The fountains of the great deep broke up.

In Hebrew, that is a massive breaking up of the earths crust (the definition of a major earthquake) and this major event caused the fountains of the great deep to burst through Condense, and fall back to the earth as rain.

That is what scripture says happened, And as I already said, Science shows this is what happened..

Again, If you do not believe it, does not make it true

We can agree to disagree but do not say I did not say something I did.

 

[crossnote]

I'm not the one here creating a "strawman" argument. You have failed to show Scripture of events like the end of Heb.12 happened during the time of Noah. And the reason is because there is nothing written like that about the time of the flood of Noah.

Furthermore, what you apparently don't see that you're inadvertently supporting, is a flood condition like the days of Noah at Gen.1:2, which has been my point all along. And that's the time the "Yet once more" of Heb.12 is actually pointing to.

Hebrews 12:25-27 KJVS
[25] See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape , if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven: [26] Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven. [27] And this word , Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.

Yet once more is tying the giving of the law at Sinai (shaking/trumpet blasts etc.) with the end of all things. Not sure how you get Gen 1:2 out of all that.

 

[Tintin]

the great mistaken thinking is that mountains had to be covered and covered they were in more ways than one due to turbulence and tilt the water was sloshed about and mountains due to water pressure appeared from sea beds with fish and marine fossils on mountain tops - before the global flood the earth was created very good viz flat, smooth, level, even and easily flooded - wincam

Not possible. Water finds its own level, Winny. Explain that one. There was a global Flood and it was devastating.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Actually, we don't know exactly when God's angels were created. We just know that they had to be created during Creation Week (because everything was created then, starting with space, time and matter).

The problem is we want to think in the physical realm but God (and His angels) are spirit. I doubt that the angels were created during the first seven days because they were not mentioned, and if we know one thing about God, He is the God of details

 

[Tintin]

The problem is we want to think in the physical realm but God (and His angels) are spirit. I doubt that the angels were created during the first seven days because they were not mentioned, and if we know one thing about God, He is the God of details

In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. The ancient Hebrews didn't have a word for 'universe', so 'heavens and earth' is used in its place to be all encompassing. Everything, both spiritual and physical, was created during Creation Week.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

I assume that Angels etc were already in existence prior to Genesis. Reason being is that Genesis refers to the creation of OUR Universe and world, not spiritual, we do not know what already existed in other dimensions.

This dimension we live in was at one point the empty void, if you look at string theory and so on, you will see that science is now coming to terms that numerous dimensions can exist, albeit an empty nothingness.

Therefore angels may have been around for some time prior to Genesis. For all we know Genesis creation could have been the final straw that made Satan rebel.

Elohim is plural but remember God is Father, Son and Spirit and the angels did not take part in the creation event (or at least I haven't read it in the Bible )

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. The ancient Hebrews didn't have a word for 'universe', so 'heavens and earth' is used in its place to be all encompassing. Everything, both spiritual and physical, was created during Creation Week.

I can't see it in the Bible but that is a matter of opinion. Agree to disagree

 

[gotime]

Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Job 38:5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
Job 38:6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

 

[Agricola]

Subterranean water has been found in past few years, calculations have indicated there is at least 3 times as much water underground than there is on the surface. The chap who co-authored the Study, Steve Jacobsen, is quoted as saying the following in the New Scientist that the hidden water might also act as a buffer for the oceans on the surface, explaining why they have stayed the same size for millions of years. "If [the stored water] wasn't there, it would be on the surface of the Earth, and mountaintops would be the only land poking out," he said.

So there you have it, science proving that there is enough water today for a global flood and it was this water which was released by God to flood earth, which then all drained back down into the earth. This also means that we can still have huge mountains that can be covered.

http://www.theguardian.com/science/...underground-ocean-three-times-that-on-surface

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Subterranean water has been found in past few years, calculations have indicated there is at least 3 times as much water underground than there is on the surface. The chap who co-authored the Study, Steve Jacobsen, is quoted as saying the following in the New Scientist that the hidden water might also act as a buffer for the oceans on the surface, explaining why they have stayed the same size for millions of years. "If [the stored water] wasn't there, it would be on the surface of the Earth, and mountaintops would be the only land poking out," he said.

So there you have it, science proving that there is enough water today for a global flood and it was this water which was released by God to flood earth, which then all drained back down into the earth. This also means that we can still have huge mountains that can be covered.

Earth may have underground 'ocean' three times that on surface | Science | The Guardian

we keep seeing more and more, Science says there should be no water after a certain depth, because of the laws of physical. Yet two major digs found found water almost 7 miles below the earths surface, where no water was expected to be found, It is seen that their are chambers of water down their, in fact it is not just water, but super water. (2 hydrogen atoms and 2 oxygen atoms) The same type of water found on meteors which have hit the earth.

 

[Wall]

with all due respect, does it really matter?

Yeah, it matters

GEN.1 [9] AND GOD SAID, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.[10] And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

It was by the WORD of God that the earth was created

2 PETER [3] Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, [4]And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.[5] For this THEY WILLINGLY ARE IGNORANT of, that BY THE WORD OF GOD the HEAVENS WERE OF OLD, AND THE EARTH standing out of the water and in the water:

We are in those last days. At the time God spoke the WORD He created the heavens and the earth to look to be old. So why would God have made the heavens and the earth to appear older than they actually were at the time of creation? Was He trying to trick us? Do ya suppose it could simply come down to a matter of faith? Those with faith in God believe that God created the heavens and the earth just as the spoken Word says, even though the evidence for this is not seen.


HEBREWS 11 [1] Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.[2] For by it the elders obtained a good report.[3] THROUGH FAITH WE UNDERSTAND THAT THE WORLDS WERE FRAMED BY THE WORD OF GOD, SO THAT THINGS WHICH ARE SEEN WERE NOT MADE OF THINGS WHICH DO APPEAR.

It really does comes down to faith. You wont be able to prove that God created the heavens and the earth (as the Word says) through science or in a debate. Common sense? Yeah. Go outside on a clear night. Look up. Think. If then you don’t understand...you dont understand.