Hyper grace

james57 · Dec 17, 2015

I used to love watching that programme. There was a £250,000 question once. Four books were given the man had to say which was not a book of the bible, he didn't know.
I guess questions are easy if it I your pet subject!

Grace777x70 · Dec 17, 2015

I laughed at the guys eyes when he saw his choices?...lol

james57 said:

Euphemia · Dec 17, 2015

Moses and David et al enjoyed acrelationship with God due to their receiving God's grace and mercy. Their righteousness was not gained by only their adherence to the Torah, but they were great, shining examples because they lived for God while maintaining the hope of the coming Messiah according to the revelation they were given.

PeterJens said:

Failure. The concept put forward here is the temple and the law failed. But they actually succeeded in demonstrating the problem of sin and the path to reconciliation. A few through faith found the place of intimacy with God, Moses, the prophets, David etc. but they were few, and what was demonstrated was confusion and failure to understand.

Jesus took all the violence, hatred, bitterness that people could throw at Him and forgave them unto death. The judge said if you follow me, I will not hold your sin against you. The key is to aim at holiness, empowered by the Spirit. But this is the inheritence of the law and the prophets not a new gospel. And the sin not held against us is sin done in ignorance, not will full. And the condition is on following.

Everything in hyper-grace sounds ok except not repenting of sin, changing the temple etc in failure and not a shadow, and making the gospel about compromise and not righteousness. The sin we do is our sin, and we need to understand it, in intimate detail, so we can overcome it, and be set free. Jesus carried the consequences of sin, death, and forgave us.
We are saved because we admit the sins commited against Jesus are our sins, so we are forgiven, or the punishment is not taken on us for them. Unless we follow then this is no longer true. We put Jesus to death, we need to drink His blood and eat His flesh, to know the depths of love He has for us.

But the sin is ours not Jesus's. We need to be honest about it, and work through it, not ignore it, and say it belongs to someone else. That is called denial, projecting on to another bad behaviour that we ourselves do. In psychological terms this leads to the worst types of behaviour and disfunctional outlooks. Jesus calls us to own our sin, admit it and turn from it. It is humbling, difficult and painful. It deals with the excuses, the pain inflicted upon others and how we are guilty.
But in the end Jesus says, "I forgive you, sin no more."

james57 · Dec 17, 2015

Grace777x70 said:

Euphemia said:

No one was truly righteous under torah

Euphemia · Dec 17, 2015

You make no sense, accusing others of inconsistency when clearly you are far afield in your understanding. Stop trying to bring people intobyour delusion. Open your heart and ask Holy Spirit to teach you the truth.

james57 said:

You wrote:

Absolutely non christians have no power to say no to sin

I replied:

You believe Paul is speaking as a christian in rom 7:14-25

He said in those verses he was sold as a slave to sin. He could not do the good he wanted to do but rather the evil he did not want to do, what he hated to do he did.(in other words paul had no power to say no to sin)

You are all over the place here

You responded:

Every word Paul wrote was as a believer.

Contradiction on your part with no effort to repudiate it.

You stated:

''It is the mark of a christian that addiction to a life of sin I broken?''

I responded:

Yet you believe in rom 7:14-25 Paul is speaking of his christian life

Wisdom is always proved right by its inconsistencies

You responded:
The wisdom of God is right. No inconsistency.

No effort made to repudiate your contradiction

You wrote:
That is a complete untruth. Unbelievers have no power to say no to sin, where Christians have that ability...as did Paul.

I responded:

Absolutely non christians have no power to say no to sin

You believe Paul is speaking as a christian in rom 7:14-25

He said in those verses he was sold as a slave to sin. He could not do the good he wanted to do but rather the evil he did not want to do, what he hated to do he did.(in other words paul had no power to say no to sin)

You are all over the place here

You responded

Every word Paul wrote was as a believer.

No effort made to repudiate your contradiction

On top of that you refused to address the following:

As a Pharisee you believe Paul obeyed the law to the nth

As a christian you believe Paul could not do the good he wanted to do but rather the evil he did not want to do, what he hated to do he did
You also believe Paul the christian had all manner of concupiscence aroused in him by sin through the law. Sin grew/ got stronger in Paul the christian

According to your beliefs Paul the Pharisee sinned less than Paul the Christian''

As you can see, every time I addressed your points and showed your inconsistencies you failed to address them with your responses

james57 · Dec 17, 2015

Euphemia said:

Once again an empty comment, simply bluster no substance just attack the individual. Well that is the only way you can deflect from your inability to address your glaring inconsistencies isn't it
Classic reaction to being unable to do so

Euphemia · Dec 17, 2015

Hmmm...well, your problem is this: self. Closed up ears to the truth of God's word about God's perfect grace work. Confusion reigns in you. I will pray for God to break down your walls.

james57 said:

Your problem is this. You refuse to address your glaring inconsistencies. While at the same time trying to give the impression of one most knowledgeable of the new covenant. It is not credible. If you were as knowledgeable as you think you are you would address the points I raised, but you are unable to.
I would not have a problem discussing sin consciousness with you, and affording you Tha opportunity. However debate must be two way and frankly you know you cannot defend your beliefs that I have questioned therefore you run from responding to them. If you started responding properly to questions asked, I would happily discuss sin consciousness with you.
Your rudeness I am afraid I simply a cover up for your inability to defend your beliefs, and may also be a result of your hyper grace

james57 · Dec 17, 2015

Euphemia said:

It is sad really. You are unable to address points, you show little knowledge and even less substance. All you are left with is to attack the individual
And yet you consider yourself knowledgeable. I haven't seen any evidence of it

eternally-gratefull · Dec 17, 2015

james57 said:

funny how you do this very thing you always judge others of doing.

Maybe you are the one everyone needs to ignore..

Euphemia · Dec 17, 2015

Says the king of bluster and obfuscation.

james57 said:

Euphemia · Dec 17, 2015

What hypocrisy.

james57 said:

james57 · Dec 17, 2015

Euphemia said:

I'm trying to remember when you replied with any substance to a spiritually related question. I cant think of any. Why dud you come on Thi website?
Theres a couple of you who at best know the very basics of grace. Yet you are flushed, believing you know a lot more than you actually do.
I don't want to burst your bubble, nayve I should put you on ignore as well. As you cannot discuss substance

james57 · Dec 17, 2015

Euphemia said:

Your pride has been hurt hasn't it as it is obvious you have major inconsistencies and obviously cannot defend then
You need to mature a wee bit.

eternally-gratefull · Dec 17, 2015

Euphemia said:

seems like i am not the only one who sees this..

james has some good things to say, Sadly he is one of those who make demands when someone disagrees with him, yet he will not follow the same demands one someone holds him up to those things.

ie, do as I say, not what I do. or the interpretation of a hypocrite..

You can not discuss Gods word with someone who is set in stone, and condemns or bellittles everyone who disagrees with him, it because a war of words, a destruction of the unity of Christ, a stain on the church of God and a waste of time..

eternally-gratefull · Dec 17, 2015

james57 said:

says the one who ignores people who does not agree with him..

this is distastefull, and arrogant, and sadly, I am not sure it is not even a reportable offense..

Euphemia · Dec 17, 2015

In the short time I've been here, the neon sign that flashes around you declares: "I AM ALL KNOWING. I DEMAND YOU ANSWER ME ACCORDING TO MY LIKING!"

Please....ignore me. Now. I can't wait to belong to that illustrious group of your ignorees.

james57 said:

james57 · Dec 17, 2015

Euphemia said:

I will happily ignore you but in truth you are speaking of yourself.
You and one other in particular seem to believe you understand grace as others don't. And unless your version of hyper grace I accepted you go around attacking others beliefs as if they are legalistic and need to be where you are at

A sign of spiritual immaturity

eternally-gratefull · Dec 17, 2015

james57 said:

lol. thats funny, So many people in this room have said the same thing, yet he says it is just us too.

This person is so far out there, he thinks it is only two who hold that view..

again, he just proved he is a hypocrite. he teaches believe what I say or you are (insert whatever insult he feels like throwing at you)

I called him out for it, he did not like it, Aint that too bad. He keeps proving me right though.

like I said, everyone should place him on ignore, he has nothing to give to the room, only sarcasm, and arrogance.. even the words he speaks in truth are useless because of his attitude against the person he is trying to discuss the word with. (excuse me, wrong word to us, I mean trying to force feed his belief system or else into them)

Euphemia · Dec 17, 2015

James, you need to take yourself in hand, dear. Your behaviour is glaringly adolescent.

HeRoseFromTheDead · Dec 17, 2015

I noticed that the phrase "the law of righteousness" does not exist in the bible. The phrase law of righteousness only occurs twice in one verse.

But Israel, which followed after a law of righteousness, has not attained to a law of righteousness. Romans 9:31

Clearly this term is somewhat ambiguous because it has a double meaning: the law of Moses (letter) and the righteousness required by the law of Moses. Of course, that's just the way Paul wrote.

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