Are we sinners?

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

No what I did was show you that you don't know what you're talking about... your reply right here proves it. Jesus Himself said you were the light of the world and do not fear... (just to name a few) so you can take it up with Him. I am simply asking you if you're actually making disciples of nations as He commanded us to do. Because He said false teachers will be known by their fruit, so I'm asking to inspect your fruit. Because as far as I'm concerned and what I've seen actually produce fruit it's the exact opposite of what you teach. But I actually wanted to see if you had some testimonies of what God has done through what your teaching because maybe there was fruit in it, but your reply answers my question.

C.

My testimony is a holy, blameless life before GOD and a conscience free of offense. With that he is well pleased. There are things that I have done, but I wouldn't tell you because I'm not into a spirit of boasting.

Christ instructed the apostles to make disciples of all nations, and of course the body of Christ as a whole is tasked with that chore. But that is far from the primary directive given to every believer, which is to have faith in the son of GOD and love one another. If churches would simply focus on this, the remnant would (super)naturally be drawn to the faith and produce the fruits of the spirit that GOD is looking for, i.e., righteousness and holiness.

Instead the church focuses on its methods and programs for church building and labors in the flesh to increase church membership, not caring if the pews are filled with tares, as long as they act according to peer pressure and pay tithes. And then it glories in the flesh that it is building the kingdom of GOD.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I know and I really don't like being confrontational. But when people lift themselves up as teachers there is a harsher judgment. Which I have accepted because of the importance of the message. And I don't want to see more people be burdened by these rules and anti-grace messages. But you're right I should leave it alone. I understand how Paul felt when he said he wept about those who were enemies of the cross, my heart hurts right now. I should just go. I always think if only I knew these people in person, then maybe I could show them the truth instead of arguing about it. Ugh arm-chair theology! That's why I don't like to write on these boards. Because at the end of the day I feel like it doesn't achieve much and I end up just getting frustrated because of seeing people mislead. Especially when people completely ignore so many Scriptures that I take the time to show them. I think that frustrates me more than anything. But I am hopeful because of Scripture that says He is well able to make His servants stand or fall. So I will rest in that and not type here anymore. Thanks Grace for being awesome and encouraging me. I love your posts, eternall's, ladylynn's and everyone elses.

C.

Other people see your posts. Iron sharpens iron I always say, You say stuff some of us do not think about.. even though we have the same message, Nd it is there for all to see.

While I agree, Certain people here will not change (Only God can help them now) I do hope you still post. because you strengthen the rest of us..

I have been blessed greatly by your posts.

 

[posthuman]

But who can discern their own errors?
Forgive my hidden faults.
(Psalm 19:12) ​

 

[kathryn]

But who can discern their own errors?
Forgive my hidden faults.
(Psalm 19:12) ​

We are strange creatures aren't we?
Sometimes we are are own worst critic, at other times we excuse our faults, try to justify them.

That's me anyway

 

[popeye]

The Lord has reminded me that you can not help someone who does not believe they have a problem. I do not think this is a wise use of my time anymore. Feel free to message me if you have any questions about what I have written. Bless you all. I know I am passionate about the things I believe and have experienced, but I love each of you. I wish only the best for you all. And I pray the Holy Spirit Himself continues to lead you in all truth.

C.

Testimony is good.

But you have made yours a yardstick in a discussion.

IOW,your claims indirectly elevate you.

The word is the standard.

You have made cee the standard.

You need to post WHY your success is bible truth,not that you PERSONALLY cancel your opponent.

 

[popeye]

Other people see your posts. Iron sharpens iron I always say, You say stuff some of us do not think about.. even though we have the same message, Nd it is there for all to see.

While I agree, Certain people here will not change (Only God can help them now) I do hope you still post. because you strengthen the rest of us..

I have been blessed greatly by your posts.

He is a little gun shy on the challenges

We all are

He will have to deal with it or stay away.

He went personal.

Not good on this venue.

 

[Grace777x70]

This is for Cee to consider while on here...

That is so true! It does not matter what you say as they "read' other stuff into it and twist our words. SOme we have told over 20 times what we have said and they still say the opposite of what was told them....we need to just let them continue to attack us and not answer them in this folly....and speak to those that are hungry for growing in the Lord..

Cee....it really does not matter what you say..they will only twist what was said...it is a waste of time to deal with them.."shake your boots" buddy and walk on to the people that want the Lord and His righteousness and want to trust in Him only and His wonderful grace freely given to them.!


Consider staying but only dealing with those that want to grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord.

I for one greatly appreciated your posts and I'm sure their are many "guest" are being taught of the Lord while watching on the side lines.

He is a little gun shy on the challenges

We all are

He will have to deal with it or stay away.

He went personal.

Not good on this venue.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

He is a little gun shy on the challenges
We all are
He will have to deal with it or stay away.
He went personal.
Not good on this venue.

I love challenges. Nothing makes me re-examine my faith more.

Going personal is always a fail. It doesn't change anything except the threat level a person experiences when cherished beliefs are threatened.

 

[eternallife7]

I love challenges. Nothing makes me re-examine my faith more.

Going personal is always a fail. It doesn't change anything except the threat level a person experiences when cherished beliefs are threatened.

With God you are never alone.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Jesus calls us to be righteous, to walk without sin.
The problem is always between what is sin and what is the causes.
In Christ we are counted as acceptable, but not to continue in sin but to be set free.

Hi Peter, nice to meet you. I have been reading a lot of your posts!

I am not sure I understand what the difference is between the cause of sin and sin. I have never thought of them as separate.

It's like...pride and self love are the cause of my getting angry and my getting angry is murder. They all three are sin.

And Eve did not believe God told her the truth. This caused her to do what He said not to do. The unbelief was sin and the disobeying of His explicit command was sin.

I can somewhat separate them as the cause and the sin but then I think about it and find I really can't in fact separate them since both the cause that began hidden in my heart and the effect that affects others are...both sin...

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I

And the new covenant commandments are believe into Christ and love one another.

These things take effort on our part and the application of our will, which are anathema in Modern Grace doctrine.

I can somewhat understand what you are saying. It does take some effort of purpose\will to obey Jesus. It's because what He says and what everyone else says are pretty much opposite of each other.

It's pretty much a daily thing to refuse what everyone else says and determine to believe what He said instead.

And also, it requires some purpose to put away self regard in order to do this. I guess no one wants to die to self regard and live in dependence instead, so it involves some struggle. But it is hardwired into us to resist our own death.

 

[eternallife7]

If we were perfected beings without a sinful nature to lug around, it would be effortless. Unfortunately, we live in a fallen world with a fallen nature, and it requires our effort and the application of our will to keep ourselves set apart (holy) so that we may do the will of GOD through the power of the new nature that produces the fruit. The pernicious doctrine of Modern Grace tries to short circuit this process through a self-identity religion masquerading as faith.

I've also noticed that the "modern grace" as you call it is very selfish and is only concerned about how the person thinks that they are saved from the damnation of hell. Some preachers in everyone of their sermons are all about one thing how they are saved from hell.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I truly believe every Christian goes through this.

The problem I think many get into is they think abiding in Christ is following his law. As long as we follow his law we are good.

As you just showed us, That is far from the truth. If we try to do it that way, We fail (that is also what Paul said so clearly in romans 7, following the law was following the flesh, and he could not do what he wanted to do when he did this.

Sadly, We all want to serve God 24/7, but we do not do it, because sadly, we still want to do things ourself.. Our pride still needs broken.

So I think we all have this, as you call it, crazy problem!!

Yes! Abiding does not mean following the law! It means believing what God has said and trusting Him to accomplish His promises!

Sometimes I fully get it and sometimes I don't. So odd!

But the law is not done away with as some say. The law is spiritual and good. It isn't ever done away with, because He fulfills it IN me. But the catch is that He only does it after I realize I can't. I have to cease all striving to be good, see that I'll fail every single time, stop trying to help Him keep His promise, and send away the child of my own making because...it's the child of Gods making that receives the promises and blessings...! Big, jaw dropping, wow factor in all of that...

 

[Grace777x70]

Yes..the law has not been done away with..it does serve a purpose for the unrighteous unbeliever.


Philippians 3:9 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith,

1 Timothy 1:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

The Law is good and holy but it was not made for us believers in Christ now as He fulfills the law for us..and we live through Him in us.

Jesus is the fulfillment of all the law and prophets. We fulfill all the requirement of the law by being in Christ.

The law had 4 purposes.

1) To reveal our sinful state - Romans 3:20

2) To inflame sin - Rom 7:8

3) To minister death - Rom 7:10-11

4) To lead us to Jesus - Galatians 3:24

Yes! Abiding does not mean following the law! It means believing what God has said and trusting Him to accomplish His promises!

Sometimes I fully get it and sometimes I don't. So odd!

But the law is not done away with as some say. The law is spiritual and good. It isn't ever done away with, because He fulfills it IN me. But the catch is that He only does it after I realize I can't. I have to cease all striving to be good, see that I'll fail every single time, stop trying to help Him keep His promise, and send away the child of my own making because...it's the child of Gods making that receives the promises and blessings...! Big, jaw dropping, wow factor in all of that...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I've also noticed that the "modern grace" as you call it is very selfish and is only concerned about how the person thinks that they are saved from the damnation of hell. Some preachers in everyone of their sermons are all about one thing how they are saved from hell.

So the gospel (being saved from Hell) which is the whole message of the bible (that being How God planned to restore he creation to himself and save them from hell) is a bad thing..

Mind to tell me what church you go to? I would like to steer people away from a church which does not spread the word of salvation to its congregation..

 

[posthuman]

Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.
(Philippians 3:13-14)


​

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I've also noticed that the "modern grace" as you call it is very selfish and is only concerned about how the person thinks that they are saved from the damnation of hell. Some preachers in everyone of their sermons are all about one thing how they are saved from hell.

I think I can see what you're saying...it bothers me to see some people I meet think that being saved from death is the end prize. Then they seem to not be changed at all and in some cases, they seem to be...WORSE!

I have a teacher right now ( for a trade I am learning) who made it known she was a Christian and who prayed for us all the first time we left the classroom to practice working on live subjects. Then she proceeded to just...act as if she didn't know or consider God at all in the circumstances of the day. She is snippy and snotty and arrogant and impatient and money driven. You couldn't tell she was a believer unless she had said so because she acts like everyone else.

Being saved from eternal damnation is not the end prize. Being saved from myself daily is more the prize for me.

I think sometimes that people like my teacher have put a superficial tiny bandaid over a mortal, blood spurting wound. I think they are deceived.

Then, I think I am being judgemental and can see their faults but not my own. Then I remember that we know them by their fruit. No fruit there.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I think I can see what you're saying...it bothers me to see some people I meet think that being saved from death is the end prize. Then they seem to not be changed at all and in some cases, they seem to be...WORSE!

I have a teacher right now ( for a trade I am learning) who made it known she was a Christian and who prayed for us all the first time we left the classroom to practice working on live subjects. Then she proceeded to just...act as if she didn't know or consider God at all in the circumstances of the day. She is snippy and snotty and arrogant and impatient and money driven. You couldn't tell she was a believer unless she had said so because she acts like everyone else.

Being saved from eternal damnation is not the end prize. Being saved from myself daily is more the prize for me.

I think sometimes that people like my teacher have put a superficial tiny bandaid over a mortal, blood spurting wound. I think they are deceived.

Then, I think I am being judgemental and can see their faults but not my own. Then I remember that we know them by their fruit. No fruit there.

I see what your saying but as I see it, if I am just saved for say maybe 30 years of a rotten life of sin,, But am doomed for all eternity to a separation from God. Then what good was my 30 years.

Any gospel not based on the "position" in Christ (now therefore no condemnation) (has eternal life) (Shall never perish) is no gospel at all. Because the change in our life cannot be maintained apart from that.

Paul considered all his suffering a momentary light affliction. Because his base was eternity, Not what goes on on this earth.

Justification is being saved eternally

Sanctification is our lives changing and having our daily lives saved.

Both are acts of God.. Both are truths we can rely on.

Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

Both (eternal salvation and conditional sanctification) are parts of the gospel of Christ.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I see what your saying but as I see it, if I am just saved for say maybe 30 years of a rotten life of sin,, But am doomed for all eternity to a separation from God. Then what good was my 30 years.

Any gospel not based on the "position" in Christ (now therefore no condemnation) (has eternal life) (Shall never perish) is no gospel at all. Because the change in our life cannot be maintained apart from that.

Paul considered all his suffering a momentary light affliction. Because his base was eternity, Not what goes on on this earth.

Justification is being saved eternally

Sanctification is our lives changing and having our daily lives saved.

Both are acts of God.. Both are truths we can rely on.

Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

Both (eternal salvation and conditional sanctification) are parts of the gospel of Christ.

Yes, I agree. I am in this odd position where I see people arguing who are telling the truth, just different pieces of the truth. I agree with both sides, which is weird, but...I don't have a problem with part a truth being spoken. I am able to keep the other part in mind and get help listening to both sides. I don't need all aspects to be pointed out at once. It doesn't threaten me or my beliefs or my security to hear the argument but it puzzles me that there is argument at all...
I guess I would rather get practical help right now or even give practical help if possible rather than argue. I am practical I guess.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes, I agree. I am in this odd position where I see people arguing who are telling the truth, just different pieces of the truth. I agree with both sides, which is weird, but...I don't have a problem with part a truth being spoken. I am able to keep the other part in mind and get help listening to both sides. I don't need all aspects to be pointed out at once. It doesn't threaten me or my beliefs or my security to hear the argument but it puzzles me that there is argument at all...
I guess I would rather get practical help right now or even give practical help if possible rather than argue. I am practical I guess.

lol. I agree, It will not hurt us.

Maybe you just have not been here a lot. The issue is the gospel.. How one gets to heaven.

That is what the argument or discussion is about.