Healthcare in America

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Oct 16, 2015
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#21
Woman dies after being forcibly removed from hospital

I thank God for my doctors, and the hospitals that have cared for me. I have heard these stories, and read about stories like the one above, but thank God I have only experienced the best care possible.

I live in the panhandle of Florida, and there are many small hospitals like the one in the above article. They support communities where a large portion of the population qualify for Medicaid, and Florida's refusal to expand the program has resulted in the reduction of the money that has supported these hospitals. This reduction has actually resulted in the closure of some of these hospitals, and reduction of hospital direct care staff. The inability to pay competitive salaries doesn't allow them attract even average direct care candidates.

We live in one of the most prosperous countries in the world, yet we seem to be unable to provide quality health care. When attempts are made to do so, we see the most divided country in the world. My friends and fellow Christians, it is time to step up to the plate, bite the bullet, and provide universal healthcare. We have spent enough providing the security for countries that have taken their savings and provided universal healthcare to pay for our own security, and provide universal healthcare for our country.
You say that you have experienced the best care possible and then you the U.S. is unable to provide quality health care. Which is it?

I believe the U.S. offers the finest health care in the world. There are machines and tests available here that are not available elsewhere. EMS are able to save patients with severe injuries because of excellent training and rapid response. People travel from all over the world to come to the U.S. to be treated. Medical students from all over the world come to be trained in the U.S. because we have the finest medical schools in the world. My wife and I have considered retiring in Ecuador or Panama, but we will probably retire in the U.S. because we want to have the best possible health care.

Health care is not free. Not in Canada or any other country. Someone has to pay. It may be in the form of a tax or fee, but someone is paying.

There is more to the stories posted here from people not satisfied with their service or the charges. For instance, I visited a specialists at the Mayo Clinic a few weeks ago for a consultation. I got a bill for $318. That seems high for a ten minute discussion that resulted in me deciding not to have surgery. Then my insurance negotiated a reduction of $79.50 on the bill and paid $218.50, leaving me a balance of $20. The premium I pay for me health care and my wife's health care coverage is less than people pay in Canada. I don't have to wait weeks to be seen or to have tests performed. I have many choices of where to go.

You will have people in the U.S. who do not have insurance. They usually walk into an ER and get treated. Some cities use parking ticket fines to help offset the cost of treating poor people with no insurance. I can understand why some thing health care is a right, and want it for free. In the U.S. there is a growing number of people who live their lives expecting everything for free. They feel no personal responsibility to take care of themselves or their families. They want the government to do all of that for them.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,782
2,951
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#22
Of course our health care in Canada is paid for with our taxes. But the point is, every single person is covered! So I pay my taxes, and the poor person who would not get coverage working a part time job or entry level job is covered. But there is no one in Canada who does not realize that it may be them who needs health care and cannot afford it next time.

As for treatment, it depends upon the province, and which speciality. Any kind of lab tests, you walk in get it done and the results are posted on line the next day. Amazing that Canada is almost up there with the US, despite the lies you have read in the right wing media.

If it is urgent, you see a specialist immediately. I got in to see my new rheumatologist the same week I moved here. He always has room for me if something comes up in my treatment, just like my rheumatologist did in Alberta.

Bone density, MRIs and xrays might take a few days to get in, unless it is urgent, then it is immediately. If you just want to consult with a specialist, you might have to wait, but if it is urgent it gets taken care of quickly. This is in a small town, but large cities are the same.

The principal is that we are willing to sacrifice a bit in time, if it means knowing that everyone is cared for. Americans are "all about me." I want my health care now, and I want it fast! And let those poor people go to the ER to get thrown out and die! Which was the OP as I recall!

In Canada, we are a Christian nation, in that our values means we want to see everyone covered, even if it means waiting a day or two.

When my son played pro hockey in the US, he was stunned when he went in for stitches, and was given every test imaginable, none of which had anything to do with the small cut he had. He was even more shocked when he saw the bill, and the one kleenex he used cost $10. That is greed, they took his insurance for all they were worth. That would never happen in Canada. We use our resources wisely, we do not squander them on the rich, or those who have fancy health care insurance!
 

Billyd

Senior Member
May 8, 2014
5,069
1,504
113
#23
You say that you have experienced the best care possible and then you the U.S. is unable to provide quality health care. Which is it?

I believe the U.S. offers the finest health care in the world. There are machines and tests available here that are not available elsewhere. EMS are able to save patients with severe injuries because of excellent training and rapid response. People travel from all over the world to come to the U.S. to be treated. Medical students from all over the world come to be trained in the U.S. because we have the finest medical schools in the world. My wife and I have considered retiring in Ecuador or Panama, but we will probably retire in the U.S. because we want to have the best possible health care.

Health care is not free. Not in Canada or any other country. Someone has to pay. It may be in the form of a tax or fee, but someone is paying.

There is more to the stories posted here from people not satisfied with their service or the charges. For instance, I visited a specialists at the Mayo Clinic a few weeks ago for a consultation. I got a bill for $318. That seems high for a ten minute discussion that resulted in me deciding not to have surgery. Then my insurance negotiated a reduction of $79.50 on the bill and paid $218.50, leaving me a balance of $20. The premium I pay for me health care and my wife's health care coverage is less than people pay in Canada. I don't have to wait weeks to be seen or to have tests performed. I have many choices of where to go.

You will have people in the U.S. who do not have insurance. They usually walk into an ER and get treated. Some cities use parking ticket fines to help offset the cost of treating poor people with no insurance. I can understand why some thing health care is a right, and want it for free. In the U.S. there is a growing number of people who live their lives expecting everything for free. They feel no personal responsibility to take care of themselves or their families. They want the government to do all of that for them.
My friend, I can afford to pay for my healthcare (including the bill for 21 days of hospitalization after a heart attack) and I always get great healthcare. Money talks. Unfortunately I don't meet many people who can do the same. I have an Aunt 10 years older than me. She pays nearly 1/3 of her income (social security) on healthcare and supplements. That is ridiculous.

Ask anyone in any country that provides universal healthcare, and you won't find many who will give it up, nor will they complain about the cost.
 

Dude653

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2011
12,348
1,044
113
#26
received_917277531690667.jpeg
you made a petty and unnecessary comment about race just to try to get they rise out of me. textbook example of trolling. I know now that you are but an relevant troll and thus forward will regard you as such. P.S....racism is not a good look
 

Dude653

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2011
12,348
1,044
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#27
Oops..I meant irrelevant troll
 
Dec 1, 2014
9,701
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#28
View attachment 141866
you made a petty and unnecessary comment about race just to try to get they rise out of me. textbook example of trolling. I know now that you are but an relevant troll and thus forward will regard you as such. P.S....racism is not a good look
You took post #25 completely out of context, and in doing so you've once again shown the unrighteous blight of your heart. But no worries, I'll leave you to wallow in your hatred of the po po and everything White; i.e. the White Establishment. You know, the establishment that made this country so great that people risk their lives to come here. Yeah, that one.
 

Dude653

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2011
12,348
1,044
113
#29
You took post #25 completely out of context, and in doing so you've once again shown the unrighteous blight of your heart. But no worries, I'll leave you to wallow in your hatred of the po po and everything White; i.e. the White Establishment. You know, the establishment that made this country so great that people risk their lives to come here. Yeah, that one.
Oh you mean the people that built this country on the backs of minorities but took the credit for themselves?...gotcha
 
Oct 16, 2015
824
12
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#30
My friend, I can afford to pay for my healthcare (including the bill for 21 days of hospitalization after a heart attack) and I always get great healthcare. Money talks. Unfortunately I don't meet many people who can do the same. I have an Aunt 10 years older than me. She pays nearly 1/3 of her income (social security) on healthcare and supplements. That is ridiculous.

Ask anyone in any country that provides universal healthcare, and you won't find many who will give it up, nor will they complain about the cost.
I'm glad that Canada has a health care program that many Canadians like. I can say that I love my American health care as well.

As far as the cost, there are many ways to lower them. Someone mentioned trail lawyers who seek enormous compensation for people who have been treated inadequately. Those attorneys raise tens of millions of dollars to support politicians who promise they will never set limits on what they can ask for in settlements.

I got hit by a neighbors car when I was lying next to the curb while painting a new address number on the curb. The 3 mile ambulance ride was $920. The 90 minutes in the ER, with doctors fees, and the cost of a CT Scan, and the cost of a couple other tests, came to $28,000. Obviously, my neighbors insurance should pay for all of it. It's been six months and so far, I have paid what my insurance company negotiated for services. That was about $3500, not $28,000. I hired an attorney to get my $3500 back. I probably could have gotten my neighbors State Farm agent to pay me back right away, but they were slow to respond and I decided to hire a lawyer, which slowed everything down. This is all part of the American system.

Here is the mindset of Americans. They want lots of government services and they don't want to pay for them. They demand lower taxes and more government services. They don't understand the math. Therefore, they look at the $18 trillion dollar debt and figure it's also someone else's problem, not theirs. Liberal / Progressive politicians campaign by telling voters they will give them free college tuition, free health care, subsidize alternative energy, double teachers salaries, improve roads and bridges, send men to Mars, provide free abortions on demand, and double the minimum wage. They promise they can do all of that without raising taxes on anyone but the 1% wealthiest. Only the math doesn't work and they double the deficit spending and add another several trillion dollars to our debt. Universal health care is just one of the promises that can't be paid for in full. But it sounds wonderful. Next they will promise free housing and call it a human right.
 
Dec 1, 2014
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#31
Oh you mean the people that built this country on the backs of minorities but took the credit for themselves?...gotcha
Mistakes were made, and if I were alive back then, I would have fought on the side of righteousness like I do now. Though there was a grave injustice that lasted 250 years, the tables have been righted and this is the greatest nation Earth has ever seen. Talk about being a troll. You exemplify trollism.
 
M

Matt210

Guest
#32
I disagree with Dude653 on more issues than I can possibly expound here, but this country has major issues. I agree with his side on this one. Yes, we are improving on some issues, but it is still a huge issue. Look up easily accessible statistics about poverty and race. Also look up the same easily accessible stats (if you are on this website, you have access to this information and are to lazy to look it up, sorry I don't know of a nicer way to say it) on race and incarceration. This system is broke. This is the American way, we need to pull ourselves up by the bootstraps, acknoweldge where we are failing and fix it. People who will not acknowledge the problems are stopping the positive changes that can be made.

Dude, I think we could be online friends one day, we probably have more in common than I originally thought based on your views about my faith.

Back to Utah, let's try a thought experiment. "You were born a black male in inner-city Chicago. Your family has not recovered from the racism and prejudice that has affected this marginalized group that did not have basic human rights for most of this country's existence. Are you strong enough to pull yourself and your family out of this hole, without access to basic educational needs?" Great change comes from asking the hard questions. Is America great? YES

Does America need serious change in regard to race? YES

Donald Trump is receiving huge poll numbers as we speak, especially from Christian groups. How can a Christian read the Bible and agree with his statements on immigrants? If you have read the gospels, you can easily understand how Our Lord is probably crying every time that lunatic speaks. I ask you Utah, what does this tell you about the state of our country?
 
Dec 1, 2014
9,701
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#33
I disagree with Dude653 on more issues than I can possibly expound here, but this country has major issues. I agree with his side on this one. Yes, we are improving on some issues, but it is still a huge issue. Look up easily accessible statistics about poverty and race. Also look up the same easily accessible stats (if you are on this website, you have access to this information and are to lazy to look it up, sorry I don't know of a nicer way to say it) on race and incarceration. This system is broke. This is the American way, we need to pull ourselves up by the bootstraps, acknoweldge where we are failing and fix it. People who will not acknowledge the problems are stopping the positive changes that can be made.

Dude, I think we could be online friends one day, we probably have more in common than I originally thought based on your views about my faith.

Back to Utah, let's try a thought experiment. "You were born a black male in inner-city Chicago. Your family has not recovered from the racism and prejudice that has affected this marginalized group that did not have basic human rights for most of this country's existence. Are you strong enough to pull yourself and your family out of this hole, without access to basic educational needs?" Great change comes from asking the hard questions. Is America great? YES

Does America need serious change in regard to race? YES

Donald Trump is receiving huge poll numbers as we speak, especially from Christian groups. How can a Christian read the Bible and agree with his statements on immigrants? If you have read the gospels, you can easily understand how Our Lord is probably crying every time that lunatic speaks. I ask you Utah, what does this tell you about the state of our country?
God is Just, and there's a whole lot of injustice from all parties; therefore I can read the Gospels and be at peace knowing anything Trump says is not as bad as what our race-baiting President does. Try again.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,352
6,633
113
#34
Oh you mean the people that built this country on the backs of minorities but took the credit for themselves?...gotcha
The people of Ireland thank you................


(still, I now better understand many of your comments made here............)
 
Dec 1, 2014
9,701
251
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#35
Oh you mean the people that built this country on the backs of minorities but took the credit for themselves?...gotcha
If only the minorities' kinfolk didn't kidnap and sell their own to the imperialist entrepreneurs.

But I digress. They're not culpable. And we all know you have no hate for them whatsoever.
 
M

Matt210

Guest
#36
Please do not associate yourself as a Christian. I am personally not a huge fan of Mr. Obama for different reasons, but he is not "race-baiting".

I will go back to questions that I am sure you will not answer (thank you for proving me correct in advance). What has President Obama said or done that is worse than rounding up thousands of innocent, poverty stricken children and sending them back to drug riddled, human trafficking, ghettos?

Oops, I forgot the best part, Mr. Trump is going to make the Mexican government pay for this roundup. But of course, anyone that knows Our Lord also knows that Jesus wants to round up Mexican children and get them out of MERICA. God loves ignorant hillbillies that love MERICA and hate everyone else. I think thats what Jesus teaches in the gospels.

If you wish to discuss specific economic policies, legitimate statistics, or anything based in facts, please respond, otherwise, stop with the hate speech and please read the gospels. After you read the gospels, please attempt to gain a basic understanding of how this republic operates, and stop basing your information off of Republican radicals (by the way, I lean Republican, I am very sensitive about idiots misrepresenting me). Rush Limbaugh is not credible. Glen Beck has lost his mind. I assume this is where you get your info.
 
M

Matt210

Guest
#37
Thank you for proving me correct Utah. I humbly wait for your response.
 
Dec 1, 2014
9,701
251
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#38
Please do not associate yourself as a Christian. I am personally not a huge fan of Mr. Obama for different reasons, but he is not "race-baiting".

I will go back to questions that I am sure you will not answer (thank you for proving me correct in advance). What has President Obama said or done that is worse than rounding up thousands of innocent, poverty stricken children and sending them back to drug riddled, human trafficking, ghettos?

Oops, I forgot the best part, Mr. Trump is going to make the Mexican government pay for this roundup. But of course, anyone that knows Our Lord also knows that Jesus wants to round up Mexican children and get them out of MERICA. God loves ignorant hillbillies that love MERICA and hate everyone else. I think thats what Jesus teaches in the gospels.

If you wish to discuss specific economic policies, legitimate statistics, or anything based in facts, please respond, otherwise, stop with the hate speech and please read the gospels. After you read the gospels, please attempt to gain a basic understanding of how this republic operates, and stop basing your information off of Republican radicals (by the way, I lean Republican, I am very sensitive about idiots misrepresenting me). Rush Limbaugh is not credible. Glen Beck has lost his mind. I assume this is where you get your info.
Did you accidentally leave out the "A" or are you one of those hypocritical left wing scumbags that hate conservatism yet do everything in their power to live high atop a plush ivory tower without ever considering being in the trenches with the disenfranchised? Answer honestly then I'll answer your questions thoroughly (and honestly).
 
Dec 1, 2014
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#39
Thank you for proving me correct Utah. I humbly wait for your response.
Three minutes? You waited three minutes then posted this? You're an idiot.
 
M

Matt210

Guest
#40
Honestly, here is my answer. I usually vote Republican. I understand economic policy and the Republican platform makes the most sense. My reasons are as follows: the private sector does a better job of educating the masses (college graduation rates are much higher and overall cost to the country (taxpayers) is less), the private sector tends to do a better job of helping the most vulnerable (aborted children, minorities that have been persecuted, people with mental or physical illnesses that can't support themselves, and the other vulnerable people of this society). However, the fringe part of the conservative movement are making us all look like idiots.

Would you like to discuss: The indifference curves of the labor market? The calculus behind the rate of change in the job market (derivative) behind the supply and demand changes due to Mr. Trump's proposed policies?

Or we could continue to spew random hyperbole.

Would you like to engage in intelligent dialogue or just repeat what you hear on hyper-conservative radio?