What are the Consequences of Falling from Grace?

[Goodnewsman]

1 John 2:1-6 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
[SUP]2 [/SUP] And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
did you notice verse 1 said "don't sin" but then went on to say "IF" "IF" "IF" IF" not "WHEN" if you sin you have an advocate with the father

if we sin we must go to the father and ask for forgiveness and he "is faithful and just to forgive us our sins"

 

[Grace777x70]

Yep..John is describing what a believer looks like.....and Jesus is our Advocate..He is the righteous one..telling the Father that His blood cleanses us from all sin....His blood speaks of better things..

 

[Goodnewsman]

AGAIN thanks for your opinion, but there like noses, we all have one

You have no faith in the cross. That is obvious.. You twist and take scripture out of context. and claim to be a man of God. You Have made yourself God by judging people..

I already responded to those two passages a few days ago. I hate playing kids games. If you want to play like a child and keep ignoring people who respond to what you say and say we have not answered them, that's on you.

Eternal life is eternal. You want to make it conditional

Eternal life is a gift, You want to make it a reward

Eternal life is based on the blood of Christ, You want to make it based on self will and works

Stop saying people only want to see passages that support them. When you have done that since you got here.

 

[Grace777x70]

Hey EG....If we asked RoboOp to do an IP address check..I wonder what would happen?

 

[Goodnewsman]

thanks for telling all of use what the bible "REALLY MEANT TO SAY"
my first grader can tell you what the words "heareth and believeth" means

please tell me what the bible "REALLY MEANT TO SAY" when john said John 15:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

if we don't abide in the vine we are cast forth into the fire

John 5:24 (NASB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

This hearing and believes , Jesus was talking to the Pharisees and that time and so He is speaking in the present tense.

John 5:18-19 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, Now as far as verse 24..notice Jesus said that when they hear and believe His words.. "has passed" out of death into life.

"has passed" = perfect tense

Perfect Tense


The basic thought of the perfect tense is that the progress of an action has been completed and the results of the action are continuing on, in full effect. In other words, the progress of the action has reached its culmination and the finished results are now in existence. Unlike the English perfect, which indicates a completed past action, the Greek perfect tense indicates the continuation and present state of a completed past action.


This is a beautiful scripture about the security of the believer! This person that hears and believes about Christ - they have LIFE from an action has been completed and the results of the action are continuing on, in full effect.

We have eternal life and it will always be ours because we are in Christ when we believe. This verse actually confirms the security of the believer in Christ. No matter how we try - we can never "do" things to get nor "keep" eternal life. It's all to do with God's abundant grace and it comes when we hear and believe on Him.

 

[Grace777x70]

Abiding in the vine...

“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.” (Jn 15:6)
What does it mean to abide in the vine?

You need to have a good answer to that question because Jesus warned that there are consequences for not abiding in the vine. He also said that those who do abide in the vine will bear much fruit:

“As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit.” (Jn 15:4)

Many people interpret the words of Jesus as carrots and sticks. They think, if I fail to abide I will be cast out and burned, but if I do abide I will bear much fruit, so I’d better start bearing fruit. Read it like this and Jesus’ words will become a law for you: produce or perish! And that’s going to be a problem because the fruit Jesus is looking for you can’t produce. Apart from Him the only thing you can produce is Frankenfruit!

In this short series on the commands of Jesus, we have seen that Jesus expects us to do impossible things, namely, He expects us to do the same works He did and greater works still. Happily, He has promised that we will do these impossible things because He is in us and we are branches to His vine.

Unfruitful branches are not chopped off, but are lifted up out of the dirt. This lifting up and the bearing of fruit in us is something that He does. So far, so good.

But what does it mean to abide or remain in Him? That sounds as if Jesus is putting conditions on us.

It sounds like He is saying, you have to do something otherwise you’ll be tossed and burned. But what is the something we must do? I guarantee you that any list of somethings that man comes up with will include keep short accounts with God or confess your sins. This is a classic example of watering down scripture to accommodate human shortcomings.

You want something to do? Try this:

“Whoever abides in Him does not sin.” (1 Jn 3:6, NKJV)

Click the link below for the rest of what Abiding in the Vine means...

John 15:6 – Abiding in the Vine – Escape to Reality

 

[Goodnewsman]

What, you guys think you know me? well I can tell you know, and you can tell EG my name isn't John. This John fellow must have really told you two how the cow ate the cabbage was he from NC?

Hey EG....If we asked RoboOp to do an IP address check..I wonder what would happen?

 

[Goodnewsman]

wow you and EG must be keen to each other sir, just because you write a lot of "words" doesn't mean you answered my question. in fact the only way you could've said less is if you would have said more. I've read it twice and you only gave what you think it should've said. i'm surprised God didn't get you to help write the bible since your so good at telling what I should have said. lol

Abiding in the vine...

“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.” (Jn 15:6)
What does it mean to abide in the vine?

You need to have a good answer to that question because Jesus warned that there are consequences for not abiding in the vine. He also said that those who do abide in the vine will bear much fruit:

“As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit.” (Jn 15:4)

Many people interpret the words of Jesus as carrots and sticks. They think, if I fail to abide I will be cast out and burned, but if I do abide I will bear much fruit, so I’d better start bearing fruit. Read it like this and Jesus’ words will become a law for you: produce or perish! And that’s going to be a problem because the fruit Jesus is looking for you can’t produce. Apart from Him the only thing you can produce is Frankenfruit!

In this short series on the commands of Jesus, we have seen that Jesus expects us to do impossible things, namely, He expects us to do the same works He did and greater works still. Happily, He has promised that we will do these impossible things because He is in us and we are branches to His vine.

Unfruitful branches are not chopped off, but are lifted up out of the dirt. This lifting up and the bearing of fruit in us is something that He does. So far, so good.

But what does it mean to abide or remain in Him? That sounds as if Jesus is putting conditions on us.

It sounds like He is saying, you have to do something otherwise you’ll be tossed and burned. But what is the something we must do? I guarantee you that any list of somethings that man comes up with will include keep short accounts with God or confess your sins. This is a classic example of watering down scripture to accommodate human shortcomings.

You want something to do? Try this:

“Whoever abides in Him does not sin.” (1 Jn 3:6, NKJV)

Click the link below for the rest of what Abiding in the Vine means...

John 15:6 – Abiding in the Vine – Escape to Reality

 

[Grace777x70]

The post was not really meant for you as you have already chosen what you want to believe....which is entirely your choice to do.

The post was for others that want to see a grace-based view of scripture....

This is a good way to live and how we chose to believe....have a great day!.....

Romans 14:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves.

wow you and EG must be keen to each other sir, just because you write a lot of "words" doesn't mean you answered my question. in fact the only way you could've said less is if you would have said more.

 

[Goodnewsman]

Fair enough. Hope u have a great day as we'll

 

[valiant]

thanks for telling all of use what the bible "REALLY MEANT TO SAY"
my first grader can tell you what the words "heareth and believeth" means

please tell me what the bible "REALLY MEANT TO SAY" when john said John 15:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

if we don't abide in the vine we are cast forth into the fire

yes because he was a fruitless branch, a non-christian. he was not abiding in the vine.

 

[Goodnewsman]

i'm going to give you the benefit of doubt and assume you didn't read your post before you hit ENTER:

a non-Christian??? Jesus is talking about "the branch" and last I checked a branch is part of the tree. why would Christ tell you to 'REMAIN" in the vine if he never was a part of the vine? surely you can see that! the limbs that fall from the trees where you live, do you assume they was never a part of a tree? (I know, sounds crazy, right?)

yes because he was a fruitless branch, a non-christian. he was not abiding in the vine.

 

[royalscot]

yet the branch covers , the former , then the latter. ie if history is not proven to be correct, then the past is a lie. etc

 

[Goodnewsman]

wow! that's a lot to respond to sondra333. lol. I think you are real confused about the "trials of life" and "sin". you said "God could be accepting your sin.....to teach you something"...NO!! A hundred times NO!!

if you want to know what God thinks of sin, look at the cross, a bloody savior hanging there etc.. and you think God would use sin to teach you something? God didn't open your eyes to that (as you stated)

sounds like you are sincere and from your post you are struggling with some pet sins and instead of praying through you've been deceived that God is using them to help you grow spiritually. (do you see how crazy that sounds?)

contrary to popular opinion, it's not enough to just say "I love God" you must also "Hate sin" as Job did. God said Job "he was a perfect and upright man, who feared God and eschewed or hated evil"

as far as me "judging" I wonder if you went to the doctor and he said "i'm sorry ma'am but you have cancer" would you also look at him and say "stop judging me?"[

did you know the bible says in 1cor. 2:15 that a spiritual man judgeth all things?

QUOTE=sondra333;2434296]Brother Goodnewsman,
Hello, and God Bless You! The only response i had while reading what you had stated is this... I understand your anger and your frustration at hypocrites, which is to say those that profess to know Me and yet their hearts are far from Me..but i would caution you my brother as i have cautioned myself which is to not get to caught up in judgement for some can truly be trying their hardest to quit all of these terrible habits that you had mentioned and i know that i am one and long for the day when i will recieve His robes and be changed in the twinkle of an eye. Neverless i don't like to say absolutely NO i will not ever be perfect in this flesh for i am a reborn new creature in Christ and i have been baptised by God's Holy Spirit so i wish to not place boundaries or constrictions (as if i could) on God's will for me, but i do know with certainty that (I) will NEVER achieve such a wonderous thing no matter how much i long for it. Also i have come to realize in prayer that when i still struggle with sin, especially one that keeps lingering no matter how hard i try He finally opened my eyes to the realization that what if it is His decision as to what weaknesses He decides to heal and in His time to heal, for He accepted me regardless of worthyness or deservement is His love that He gave freely to me....And because of that acceptance of my weakness or sin let's say that there is one or some that again no matter how i try He had decided to accept me and heal me but not in this earthly time but in His time. Could it be for the sake of teaching me long suffering patience to not only bring to my attention that everything is possible with Him and with me nothing is, but to also bring to my attention the lack of trust and ultimately lack of faith in His power, and the wanting to pull away because i tried so hard and finally frustated and hurt i left it in His hands and yet i did not change, did i really leave it within His hands then? Or did i have any kind of patience in His will and His timing? Or ultimately was i behaving as a spoiled child that wants it NOW FATHER! in my time. Also i remind myself when i feel like judging that i can NOT see into a man's heart is that not the purpose of God Almighty being the One and True Judge? It troubles me when we get caught up in judging instead of lovingly correcting...for again we can not see into another's heart and to be so quick to "take away" one's salvation when He went thru so much to give it, i am sorry but i don't agree with that for again if they truly be hypocrites then did they really ever recieve His salvation and why trouble yourself with it if they are or not for He KNOWS. You take care my brother and love to you from your sister in Christ.[/QUOTE]

 

[Grace777x70]

Here is a great grace-based teaching on the unfruitful branches...

What Happens to Unfruitful Branches?

Jesus said, “if you love me, you will keep my commandments” (Jn 14:15, NASB). In the hands of a religious person this becomes a conditional statement: You have to keep the commands of Jesus to prove your love. The problem with that, however, is the commands of Jesus are impossible to keep.

As we saw in our last post, Jesus said anyone who keeps His commands, “will do what I have been doing and even greater things.” Well Jesus healed the sick and raised the dead. Can you? On your own it’s impossible, but that’s okay because you know what? Jesus has a plan. In the very next verse He begins to tell us what it is:


“I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, who will stay with you forever.” (Jn 14:16)

Who is the Helper? He’s the Holy Spirit, the One who empowers us to show and tell the gospel of the kingdom (Rms 15:19). (Note that the Holy Spirit doesn’t come and go. Jesus said He will “be with you forever”!) Jesus then tells the disciples that on the day that the Holy Spirit is given,

“… you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.” (Jn 14:20)

Click on the link below to view the rest of the article...it will bless you and exalt Jesus in your life.

What Happens to Unfruitful Branches? – Escape to Reality

 

[Goodnewsman]

hmmm you undoubtedly have not read many of my post's because that's all I've been doing. as far as your question of me "knowing my bible" I don't know it near as much as i'd like to. are you judging me?

Ive noticed you say alot without bringing scripture to back up your view.Do you know your Bible?

 

[Goodnewsman]

of course the word "cigarette" or "smoker" is not in the bible. but it is there in principal. I mean after all the word "bible: is not in the "bible"

just so you breathe easy blondie, I do not think there is a difference in the sin of smoking or the sin of gluttony.
1 Corinthians 6:19-20 (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
[SUP]20 [/SUP] For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

we belong to God and smoking abuses God's property
even the surgeon general had enough since to put a label on the side of WARNING THIS WILL KILL YOU
1 Corinthians 6:12 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

is smoking addictive? sure it is. and apostle paul said "i will not be brought under the power of any"

The Lord promises us long life in the Bible but those who violate His commandments are choosing to shorten their own lives. Psalm 91:16 says, “With long life will I satisfy him, and show him my salvation.” Consider also Proverbs 4:10, “Hear, O my son, and receive my sayings; and the years of thy life shall be many.”

Galatians 6:7-8 tells us that in time we shall reap corruption from our sinful habits – “Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.”

Romans 12:1-2 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
1 Corinthians 3:16-17 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
[SUP]17 [/SUP] If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
I know first hand the power cigarettes can have you, I use to be a smoker myself (smoked it and chewed it) but I can also tell you that God has the power to help you break this awful addiction. he did it for me. praise God!!!!

Smokers go to hell? How about gluttons? Scripture plz

 

[Goodnewsman]

did I just read what I thought I did? did you just write that Jesus said "keep my commandments" and then proceeded further to say "the commands of Jesus are impossible to keep"

tell me you didn't read that before you did copy and paste

what does that say about Jesus (from your point of view)

only a cruel father would give commandments to his children knowing they couldn't do it.


QUOTE=Grace777x70;2435326]Here is a great grace-based teaching on the unfruitful branches...

What Happens to Unfruitful Branches?

Jesus said, “if you love me, you will keep my commandments” (Jn 14:15, NASB). In the hands of a religious person this becomes a conditional statement: You have to keep the commands of Jesus to prove your love. The problem with that, however, is the commands of Jesus are impossible to keep.

As we saw in our last post, Jesus said anyone who keeps His commands, “will do what I have been doing and even greater things.” Well Jesus healed the sick and raised the dead. Can you? On your own it’s impossible, but that’s okay because you know what? Jesus has a plan. In the very next verse He begins to tell us what it is:


“I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, who will stay with you forever.” (Jn 14:16)

Who is the Helper? He’s the Holy Spirit, the One who empowers us to show and tell the gospel of the kingdom (Rms 15:19). (Note that the Holy Spirit doesn’t come and go. Jesus said He will “be with you forever”!) Jesus then tells the disciples that on the day that the Holy Spirit is given,

“… you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.” (Jn 14:20)

Click on the link below to view the rest of the article...it will bless you and exalt Jesus in your life.

What Happens to Unfruitful Branches? – Escape to Reality[/QUOTE]

 

[Goodnewsman]

I guess your Mr. Miyagi and i'm the grasshopper so please teach me

That's three strikes in one statement, you're out. There is so much you still need to learn, and I pray that one day you will look back and marvel that you once believed such nonsense.

 

[Goodnewsman]

explain please

yet the branch covers , the former , then the latter. ie if history is not proven to be correct, then the past is a lie. etc