misunderstandings between Catholics and Christians

KenAllan · Jan 12, 2016

Loco, when it comes to Truth from God ONLY God has the Truths.

There are no Truths outside of God, even the number Pi. God knows the exact number for Pi. Just because God did not put the number Pi in the Scriptures means nothing Loco!

Again i state only God has all the Truths! There are no Truths outside of God!

KenAllan · Jan 12, 2016

Catholics cannot serve two Masters Loco. Therefore Catholics cannot be followers of God because Mary is their god also.

fordman · Jan 12, 2016

Utah said:

Catholics believe in salvation by grace alone, yet grace must not be resisted, either before justification (by remaining in unbelief) or after (by engaging in serious sin). Read carefully 1 Corinthians 6, Galatians 5, and Ephesians 5.

Second, the Bible nowhere uses the expressions "justification by faith alone" or "salvation by faith alone." The first was directly the invention of Luther; the second his by implication. Luther inserted "alone" into the German translation of Romans 3:28 to give credence to his new doctrine.

In John 3:16, this passage speaks of the saving power of faith, but in no sense does it diminish the role of obedience to Christ in the process of getting to heaven.

In fact, it assumes it. Just as Fundamentalists overlook the rest of the chapter in connection with what being born of water and the Holy Spirit really means--they ignore the water part, which refers to baptism--they also overlook the context when interpreting Christ's words about obtaining eternal life in John 3:16.

In John 3:36 we are told, "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever disobeys the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains upon him."

This expands on John 3:16. It is another way of saying what Paul says in Romans 6:23: "The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

Although we cannot earn God's unmerited favor by our good works, we can reject his love by our sins (that is, by our evil works) and thereby lose the eternal life he freely offers us in Christ. --Catholicanswers.com
　
　
　

Pax Christi

notuptome · Jan 12, 2016

fordman said:

Catholics believe in salvation by grace alone, yet grace must not be resisted, either before justification (by remaining in unbelief) or after (by engaging in serious sin). Read carefully 1 Corinthians 6, Galatians 5, and Ephesians 5.

Second, the Bible nowhere uses the expressions "justification by faith alone" or "salvation by faith alone." The first was directly the invention of Luther; the second his by implication. Luther inserted "alone" into the German translation of Romans 3:28 to give credence to his new doctrine.

In John 3:16, this passage speaks of the saving power of faith, but in no sense does it diminish the role of obedience to Christ in the process of getting to heaven.

In fact, it assumes it. Just as Fundamentalists overlook the rest of the chapter in connection with what being born of water and the Holy Spirit really means--they ignore the water part, which refers to baptism--they also overlook the context when interpreting Christ's words about obtaining eternal life in John 3:16.

In John 3:36 we are told, "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever disobeys the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains upon him."

This expands on John 3:16. It is another way of saying what Paul says in Romans 6:23: "The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

Although we cannot earn God's unmerited favor by our good works, we can reject his love by our sins (that is, by our evil works) and thereby lose the eternal life he freely offers us in Christ. --Catholicanswers.com

Busy rewriting the bible again?

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

What you need are biblical answers not the apostasy of Rome.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

fordman · Jan 12, 2016

Euphemia said:

So Euphemia, do believe that Confession, Infant Baptisim,The Real Presence in the Eucharist, or the Sacrifice of the Mass are teachings of the Catholic Church?
　

Pax Christi

fordman · Jan 12, 2016

notuptome said:

No...no.... no.... you are mistaken, it wasen't the Catholic Church that re-wrote the bible, it was your own Martin Luther who you can blame for that. It was he (Martin Luther) that tossed out seven books that the early Christians and the early Church considered canonical. Not only that, Martin Luther also wanted to toss out other books from the New Testament including Hebrews, Jude, Revelations and James! The only reason he didn't get his way is because some of the other protesters said "Whoa there Marty"!!!! we don't think thats such a good idea! So you see, he couldn't talk them into it, so they kept them.

Did you know why he wanted to toss the book of James? Well, he called it "an epistle of straw" because James 2:14-26 conflicted with his personal beliefs on good works.

And did you also know he added the word "only" in Romans 3:20 and Romans 4:15?

Not only that, he also added the word "Alone" in Romans 3:28!

I think not....... I think what is needed, is for you to do some reseach into the true history of the bible before making such an outlandish remark.
　

Pax Christi

Utah · Jan 12, 2016

PoetMary said:

Don't tell that to me, tell it to the overwhelming number of Catholics I serve that are shell-shocked from overdosing on Catholicism. Not my words, theirs.

Utah · Jan 12, 2016

blue_ladybug said:

What don't you understand, Blue?

Utah · Jan 12, 2016

Loco said:

Loco, don't give up your day job. You're not even remotely funny, or offensive, at least you could have been one or the other, but you lack the skills. However, you are naive for 57 years of age.

As far as John the Baptist, I know he is proud of my no-nonsense approach to heretics, but infinitely more importantly, God is well pleased. I'm respectful at first, but when the heresies continue, I take off the gloves. But don't you worry, Loco, feel free to play nice with heretics while they ignore the Truth and continue to spew forth their blasphemous fallacies. We don't ever want to jolt them in such a manner that they may open their eyes to the Truth.

blue_ladybug · Jan 12, 2016

Utah said:

It most certainly is the Catholic Church's fault. If the church shared the Truth of God's love and grace rather than wrongfully placing heretical burdens upon the hearts and minds of its parishioners then the people wouldn't live in such despair.

No worries epostle, keep blaming the rape victim rather than the rapist.

Utah said:

The sentence bolded in red above. Couldn't you have worded it a little more delicately than that? I get your point, but still....

Utah · Jan 12, 2016

notuptome said:

Fordman, I appreciate your response in post 883, but I agree with notuptome. You're adding incorrect context to the very simple message of salvation through faith alone.

Utah · Jan 12, 2016

blue_ladybug said:

Utah said:

I'll repeat my question because I love you, Blue. What don't you understand? What is it about my post that you fail to understand? Epostle blames Catholics carte blanche for feeling despair rather than blaming the Catholic Church who imprisons its parishioners with gloom and doom and places heretical undue burdens upon them. He's blaming the rape victim rather than the rapist. That's the severity of the Catholic Church's guilt. I stand by my words.

blue_ladybug · Jan 12, 2016

Utah said:

blue_ladybug said:

Like I said, I get the point you were making in your post to epostle. It's just that I'm very touchy on that particular subject. No worries, I forgive you.

KenAllan · Jan 13, 2016

I agree with you fordman we can reject the Love God has for us by practicing our sins. Therefore by bowing down to statues of Mary and Praying the Hail Mary to Mary, you are practicing your sin of Idolatry and have lost the right to enter into Heaven fordman.

1 Peter 1:7-9
[SUP]7 [/SUP] so that the tested genuineness of your faith—more precious than gold that perishes though it is tested by fire—may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Though you have not seen him, you love him. Though you do not now see him, you believe in him and rejoice with joy that is inexpressible and filled with glory,
[SUP]9 [/SUP] obtaining the outcome of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

Ephesians 2:8-9
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
[SUP]9 [/SUP] not of works, lest anyone should boast.

We obtain our Salvation by our Faith and by God's Grace fordman.

Romans 5:18-19
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] For as by the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man’s obedience the many will be made righteous.

We have been Justified by the Righteousness of Jesus Christ and we have been made Righteous by the obedience of Jesus Christ!

KenAllan · Jan 13, 2016

The problem with you fordman is you are mixing your Works with the free Gift of Salvation from God. You are mixing your efforts with what God freely has already done for you.

But then i truly believe you may be one of those who were never chosen by God to enter into Heaven fordman.

Matthew 22:14
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For many are called, but few are chosen.”

Ephesians 1:4-10
[SUP]4 [/SUP] even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love
[SUP]5 [/SUP] he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,
[SUP]6 [/SUP] to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace,
[SUP]8 [/SUP] which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight
[SUP]9 [/SUP] making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ
[SUP]10 [/SUP] as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

PaulMack · Jan 13, 2016

You are wasting your time Ken.

Fordman will never accept anything from the Scriptures. Its what the Catholic Church says that is fordman only source for the Truth. Because the Catholic Church says its not a sin to honor Mary by praying the Hail Mary to her, fordman will never listen to the Holy Spirit who does say it is a sin.

List of Authority on the Truth from the Catholic Church.
1. The Catholic Church.
2. What the World says.
3. The Scriptures.

On the list of Authority the Catholic Church is on the top of the list, with the teachings of the World in second place and then the Word of God, the Scriptures, coming in dead last on the list.

This is what fordman believes and this is what fordman will defend.

He is totally dedicated to the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church to him is his Truth, not God. This is why he shreds what God says to preach the Catholicism of the Catholic Church.

Again i say its a waste of time trying to show Catholics the Truth God has for them.

notuptome · Jan 13, 2016

fordman said:

Hogwash. You just hate Martin Luther for the sake of hating someone.

What is wrong with you? You endeavor to use a faulty translation to impeach another translation. Show from the Greek where the text is in error but be prepared to have your text submitted to the same standard.

Frivolous remarks. Romanism did not preserve the true text of the bible. Israel had the OT long before anyone even knew of Romanism. The books removed from Rome's version of the bible were removed because of historical and doctrinal errors. Contradictions within the books and with other books that are above reproach cause their removal not Martin Luther.

You are very religious but no man can will himself to be a Christian.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Loco · Jan 13, 2016

KenAllan said:

God is Truth. God chose to make an image of Himself from dust, called it Adam, fashioned Eve from Adam, communicated Truth to them, and placed all things on Earth save the fruit of one tree under their dominion. Satan reversed the creation order by having an animal (the serpent) deceive Eve to fall into error, who then caused Adam to sin directly in rebellion to God's command.

While we are marred, we remain the image of God. While sin corrupts our mind so it is difficult to think clearly, still the Truth God placed in us is not wholly abolished. To say otherwise is to contradict Romans 1.

God has, in fact He is Truth, and He is all Truth. As James wrote ALL Good gifts come from the Father above, and Truth is one such gift. However, by both the common Grace that informs even the wicked, and much more so by the specific Grace which is imparted by the Holy Spirit to the regenerate; there is now Truth in us. Not all Truth, no man but the Glorified Christ posseses all Truth, but there is some Truth in us, and sufficient in me to grant permanent, certain salvation.

You argue with yourself when you say "There are no Truths outside of God!" I believe I understand what you are trying to say, but I am trying to show you there is a clearer way of stating it.

Of course God knows Pi, but you stated earlier that all Truth can be found in Scripture as if that was what is meant by sola Scriptura. I showed you what is plain, that not all that is True is found in Scripture.

So what does sola Scriptura mean? Maybe it would help you to watch a video by someone like James White, John McArthur or anyone else that you might trust. It is clear you find me a half-heretic that is somehow trying to sneak tradition or some other RC doctrine in the back door. You are wrong. Tradition never, ever, EVER trumps the plain sense of the written Scripture.

Please, do yourself a favor and go read from the very people who coined the term "sola Scriptura" what they meant by it.

MikeHenderson · Jan 13, 2016

Actually fordman Martin Luther was from the Catholic Church. He was not from any Protestant Church. He was a Catholic who actually listened to what God had said in the Scriptures. He had the courage and Truth from God to take on the corrupted Catholic Church.

Guess what fordman, God did win!

If God was able to bring Martin Luther out of the Catholic Church, God then is able to bring others out of the Catholic Church.

Its not all about what the Catholic Church says fordman, its all about what God says. This is the point you and others are missing.

Until you wake up and accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior fordman, you will never escape from the Catholic Church. If it were not for Martin Luther, John Calvin, and others who escaped from the Catholic Church, we would all be still under the yoke of the corrupted Catholic Church!

Did you know fordman that if a Catholics was caught reading the Scriptures he could be put to death? Its was a decree from the Catholic Church to put all those who read the Scriptures to death just for reading the Words of God!

"The Council of Trent (1545-1564) placed the Bible on its list of prohibited books, and forbade any person to read the Bible without a license from a Roman Catholic bishop or inquisitor. The Council added these words: "That if any one shall dare to read or keep in his possession that book, without such a license, he shall not receive absolution till he has given it up to his ordinary." Rome's attempt to keep the Bible from men has continued to recent times. Pope Pius VII (1800-1823) denounced the Bible Society and expressed shock at the circulation of the Scriptures. Pius VII said, "It is evidence from experience, that the holy Scriptures, when circulated in the vulgar tongue, have, through the temerity of men, produced more harm than benefit." Pope Leo XII called the Protestant Bible the "Gospel of the Devil" in an encyclical letter of 1824. Pope Gregory XVI (1831-1846) railed "against the publication, distribution, reading, and possession of books of the holy Scriptures translated into the vulgar tongue." Pope Leo XII, in January 1850, condemned the Bible Societies and admitted the fact that the distribution of Scripture has "long been condemned by the holy chair."

Loco · Jan 13, 2016

KenAllan said:

RC doctrine is a confusing mishmash of all manner of stuff. Most RC are not Christians. Most Protestants, most Orthodox are not Christian either. When you look on a particular person you need to separate what they actually believe from the group they choose to identify themselves with. When trying to evaluate an institution this is a judgment call.

If someone is trusting in a prayer from Mary to be saved, that person is not saved. If someone is trusting in any work they do, or any sacrament, rite or whatever to add to the possibility of being saved, they are not Truly Christian. NOTHING can be added to salvation, contra fordman, not one iota as plainly stated throughout Scripture.

We are to judge when we must, but do so carefully. Not everyone that appears lost is, and not everyone who appears saved is either. For most RC Mary is indeed a god in reality, contra all the "magisterial" theories.

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