Nimrod

GodIsSalvation · Jan 15, 2016

This a good point too. Really good looks today all around ya'll.

It highlights the sorta ambiguity with Nimrod which is what I suppose makes him an interesting topic for Bible Study. Being a hunter alone doesn't necessarily make him bad no more than being a king. Note even though Esau was a hunter, in Genesis 27 Isaac himself instructs Esau to hunt, and Isaac was a good dude.

Lol of course ironically that was the perfect chance for Jacob, whose named means Usurper (for those that like the nomen ist omen logic) to take his blessing, which is legit as Jacob had bought his birthright and thus did not lie when he pretended to be Esau, though he was indeed very subtle. Either way I don't think it was because of him being a hunter that was why Esau is accounted a somewhat villain. Though to make one defense for Esau, him and Jacob's reconciliation later on is one of the most touching parts of Genesis, as with the reconciling of Joseph and his brothers, whom are the progenitors of the tribes of Israel, even beloved Judah.

Genesis 27

1 And it came to pass, that when Isaac was old, and his eyes were dim, so that he could not see, he called Esau his eldest son, and said unto him, My son: and he said unto him, Behold, here am I.[SUP]
2 [/SUP]And he said, Behold now, I am old, I know not the day of my death:
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Now therefore take, I pray thee, thy weapons, thy quiver and thy bow, and go out to the field, and take me some venison;
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And make me savoury meat, such as I love, and bring it to me, that I may eat; that my soul may bless thee before I die.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And Rebekah heard when Isaac spake to Esau his son. And Esau went to the field to hunt for venison, and to bring it.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And Rebekah spake unto Jacob her son, saying, Behold, I heard thy father speak unto Esau thy brother, saying,
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Bring me venison, and make me savoury meat, that I may eat, and bless thee before the Lord before my death.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Now therefore, my son, obey my voice according to that which I command thee.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Go now to the flock, and fetch me from thence two good kids of the goats; and I will make them savoury meat for thy father, such as he loveth:
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And thou shalt bring it to thy father, that he may eat, and that he may bless thee before his death.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And Jacob said to Rebekah his mother, Behold, Esau my brother is a hairy man, and I am a smooth man:
[SUP]12 [/SUP]My father peradventure will feel me, and I shall seem to him as a deceiver; and I shall bring a curse upon me, and not a blessing.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And his mother said unto him, Upon me be thy curse, my son: only obey my voice, and go fetch me them.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And he went, and fetched, and brought them to his mother: and his mother made savoury meat, such as his father loved.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And Rebekah took goodly raiment of her eldest son Esau, which were with her in the house, and put them upon Jacob her younger son:
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And she put the skins of the kids of the goats upon his hands, and upon the smooth of his neck:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And she gave the savoury meat and the bread, which she had prepared, into the hand of her son Jacob.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]And he came unto his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I; who art thou, my son?
[SUP]19 [/SUP]And Jacob said unto his father, I am Esau thy first born; I have done according as thou badest me: arise, I pray thee, sit and eat of my venison, that thy soul may bless me.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And Isaac said unto his son, How is it that thou hast found it so quickly, my son? And he said, Because the Lord thy God brought it to me.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]And Isaac said unto Jacob, Come near, I pray thee, that I may feel thee, my son, whether thou be my very son Esau or not.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]And Jacob went near unto Isaac his father; and he felt him, and said, The voice is Jacob's voice, but the hands are the hands of Esau.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And he discerned him not, because his hands were hairy, as his brother Esau's hands: so he blessed him.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]And he said, Art thou my very son Esau? And he said, I am.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]And he said, Bring it near to me, and I will eat of my son's venison, that my soul may bless thee. And he brought it near to him, and he did eat: and he brought him wine and he drank.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]And his father Isaac said unto him, Come near now, and kiss me, my son.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And he came near, and kissed him: and he smelled the smell of his raiment, and blessed him, and said, See, the smell of my son is as the smell of a field which the Lord hath blessed:
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Therefore God give thee of the dew of heaven, and the fatness of the earth, and plenty of corn and wine:
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Let people serve thee, and nations bow down to thee: be lord over thy brethren, and let thy mother's sons bow down to thee: cursed be every one that curseth thee, and blessed be he that blesseth thee.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]And it came to pass, as soon as Isaac had made an end of blessing Jacob, and Jacob was yet scarce gone out from the presence of Isaac his father, that Esau his brother came in from his hunting.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]And he also had made savoury meat, and brought it unto his father, and said unto his father, Let my father arise, and eat of his son's venison, that thy soul may bless me.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]And Isaac his father said unto him, Who art thou? And he said, I am thy son, thy firstborn Esau.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]And Isaac trembled very exceedingly, and said, Who? where is he that hath taken venison, and brought it me, and I have eaten of all before thou camest, and have blessed him? yea, and he shall be blessed.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]And when Esau heard the words of his father, he cried with a great and exceeding bitter cry, and said unto his father, Bless me, even me also, O my father.
[SUP]35 [/SUP]And he said, Thy brother came with subtilty, and hath taken away thy blessing.
[SUP]36 [/SUP]And he said, Is not he rightly named Jacob? for he hath supplanted me these two times: he took away my birthright; and, behold, now he hath taken away my blessing. And he said, Hast thou not reserved a blessing for me?
[SUP]37 [/SUP]And Isaac answered and said unto Esau, Behold, I have made him thy lord, and all his brethren have I given to him for servants; and with corn and wine have I sustained him: and what shall I do now unto thee, my son?
[SUP]38 [/SUP]And Esau said unto his father, Hast thou but one blessing, my father? bless me, even me also, O my father. And Esau lifted up his voice, and wept.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]And Isaac his father answered and said unto him, Behold, thy dwelling shall be the fatness of the earth, and of the dew of heaven from above;
[SUP]40 [/SUP]And by thy sword shalt thou live, and shalt serve thy brother; and it shall come to pass when thou shalt have the dominion, that thou shalt break his yoke from off thy neck.
[SUP]41 [/SUP]And Esau hated Jacob because of the blessing wherewith his father blessed him: and Esau said in his heart, The days of mourning for my father are at hand; then will I slay my brother Jacob.
[SUP]42 [/SUP]And these words of Esau her elder son were told to Rebekah: and she sent and called Jacob her younger son, and said unto him, Behold, thy brother Esau, as touching thee, doth comfort himself, purposing to kill thee.
[SUP]43 [/SUP]Now therefore, my son, obey my voice; arise, flee thou to Laban my brother to Haran;
[SUP]44 [/SUP]And tarry with him a few days, until thy brother's fury turn away;
[SUP]45 [/SUP]Until thy brother's anger turn away from thee, and he forget that which thou hast done to him: then I will send, and fetch thee from thence: why should I be deprived also of you both in one day?
[SUP]46 [/SUP]And Rebekah said to Isaac, I am weary of my life because of the daughters of Heth: if Jacob take a wife of the daughters of Heth, such as these which are of the daughters of the land, what good shall my life do me?

Is · Jan 15, 2016

GodIsSalvation said:

Lol everyone can fathom that, it is after all the pop culture portrayal. I think what's not being fathomed here is if that were that so it implies a fall before the fall which maketh no sense. Also no such episode is described in the Bible.

I disagree, lions and angels are both creations and both being used in the chapters to describe the people talked about in their respective chapters and verses. Judah was like a lion's cub (note: Jesus is the lion of Judah), just like the King of Tyre was like an anointed cherub until iniquity found in him.

Also just kinda a sidenote to go back to SirJesusLive's comment about Eden that I been investigating somewhat lately. There was a city of Eden, that existed around same location and time and that is mentioned in various parts of the Bible such as Amos 1 (Tyre/Tyrus mentioned in this chapter also), Ezekiel 27, and 2 Kings 19. So it is plausible the Eden of Ezekiel 28 could be literally that city. Also obviously word Eden itself means House of God/Garden of God, so it's sort of a spiritual point too. Other than that there's also the trees of Eden prophecy in Ezekiel 31 where we see another human, the Pharoah king of Egypt and his armies likened to trees in Eden. Kind of thematic to Ezekiel.

Lol yay praise Jesus because he did physically return being resurrected all ready.

Lol though I get what you mean lady IS, you meaning the end of days, and indeed Jesus will return in that manner of full glory too, praise God.

John 21

1 After these things Jesus shewed himself again to the disciples at the sea of Tiberias; and on this wise shewed he himself.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]There were together Simon Peter, and Thomas called Didymus, and Nathanael of Cana in Galilee, and the sons of Zebedee, and two other of his disciples.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing. They say unto him, We also go with thee. They went forth, and entered into a ship immediately; and that night they caught nothing.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]But when the morning was now come, Jesus stood on the shore: but the disciples knew not that it was Jesus.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Then Jesus saith unto them, Children, have ye any meat? They answered him, No.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And he said unto them, Cast the net on the right side of the ship, and ye shall find. They cast therefore, and now they were not able to draw it for the multitude of fishes.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Therefore that disciple whom Jesus loved saith unto Peter, It is the Lord. Now when Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he girt his fisher's coat unto him, (for he was naked,) and did cast himself into the sea.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And the other disciples came in a little ship; (for they were not far from land, but as it were two hundred cubits,) dragging the net with fishes.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]As soon then as they were come to land, they saw a fire of coals there, and fish laid thereon, and bread.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Jesus saith unto them, Bring of the fish which ye have now caught.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Simon Peter went up, and drew the net to land full of great fishes, an hundred and fifty and three: and for all there were so many, yet was not the net broken.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Jesus saith unto them, Come and dine. And none of the disciples durst ask him, Who art thou? knowing that it was the Lord.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Jesus then cometh, and taketh bread, and giveth them, and fish likewise.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]This is now the third time that Jesus shewed himself to his disciples, after that he was risen from the dead.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Verily, verily, I say unto thee, When thou wast young, thou girdest thyself, and walkedst whither thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and carry thee whither thou wouldest not.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee?
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do?
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?
[SUP]24 [/SUP]This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

GodIsSalvation said:

Oh yeah? and the King of Tyre was, where? (Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God), according to your interpretation. Is that all you have as Scriptural proof for humans being compared to angelic beings?

GodIsSalvation · Jan 15, 2016

Is said:

Eden was also a city in that region of the time (note verse 23) as one plausibility given the reference to it in Ezekiel 27, which also speaks about Tyrus/Tyre. Contains many similar themes to Ezekiel 28.

Ezekiel 27

1 The word of the Lord came again unto me, saying,
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Now, thou son of man, take up a lamentation for Tyrus;
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And say unto Tyrus, O thou that art situate at the entry of the sea, which art a merchant of the people for many isles, Thus saith the Lord God; O Tyrus, thou hast said, I am of perfect beauty.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Thy borders are in the midst of the seas, thy builders have perfected thy beauty.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]They have made all thy ship boards of fir trees of Senir: they have taken cedars from Lebanon to make masts for thee.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Of the oaks of Bashan have they made thine oars; the company of the Ashurites have made thy benches of ivory, brought out of the isles of Chittim.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Fine linen with broidered work from Egypt was that which thou spreadest forth to be thy sail; blue and purple from the isles of Elishah was that which covered thee.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]The inhabitants of Zidon and Arvad were thy mariners: thy wise men, O Tyrus, that were in thee, were thy pilots.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]The ancients of Gebal and the wise men thereof were in thee thy calkers: all the ships of the sea with their mariners were in thee to occupy thy merchandise.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]They of Persia and of Lud and of Phut were in thine army, thy men of war: they hanged the shield and helmet in thee; they set forth thy comeliness.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]The men of Arvad with thine army were upon thy walls round about, and the Gammadims were in thy towers: they hanged their shields upon thy walls round about; they have made thy beauty perfect.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Tarshish was thy merchant by reason of the multitude of all kind of riches; with silver, iron, tin, and lead, they traded in thy fairs.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Javan, Tubal, and Meshech, they were thy merchants: they traded the persons of men and vessels of brass in thy market.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]They of the house of Togarmah traded in thy fairs with horses and horsemen and mules.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]The men of Dedan were thy merchants; many isles were the merchandise of thine hand: they brought thee for a present horns of ivory and ebony.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Syria was thy merchant by reason of the multitude of the wares of thy making: they occupied in thy fairs with emeralds, purple, and broidered work, and fine linen, and coral, and agate.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Judah, and the land of Israel, they were thy merchants: they traded in thy market wheat of Minnith, and Pannag, and honey, and oil, and balm.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Damascus was thy merchant in the multitude of the wares of thy making, for the multitude of all riches; in the wine of Helbon, and white wool.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Dan also and Javan going to and fro occupied in thy fairs: bright iron, cassia, and calamus, were in thy market.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Dedan was thy merchant in precious clothes for chariots.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Arabia, and all the princes of Kedar, they occupied with thee in lambs, and rams, and goats: in these were they thy merchants.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]The merchants of Sheba and Raamah, they were thy merchants: they occupied in thy fairs with chief of all spices, and with all precious stones, and gold.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Haran, and Canneh, and Eden, the merchants of Sheba, Asshur, and Chilmad, were thy merchants.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]These were thy merchants in all sorts of things, in blue clothes, and broidered work, and in chests of rich apparel, bound with cords, and made of cedar, among thy merchandise.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]The ships of Tarshish did sing of thee in thy market: and thou wast replenished, and made very glorious in the midst of the seas.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]Thy rowers have brought thee into great waters: the east wind hath broken thee in the midst of the seas.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]Thy riches, and thy fairs, thy merchandise, thy mariners, and thy pilots, thy calkers, and the occupiers of thy merchandise, and all thy men of war, that are in thee, and in all thy company which is in the midst of thee, shall fall into the midst of the seas in the day of thy ruin.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]The suburbs shall shake at the sound of the cry of thy pilots.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]And all that handle the oar, the mariners, and all the pilots of the sea, shall come down from their ships, they shall stand upon the land;
[SUP]30 [/SUP]And shall cause their voice to be heard against thee, and shall cry bitterly, and shall cast up dust upon their heads, they shall wallow themselves in the ashes:
[SUP]31 [/SUP]And they shall make themselves utterly bald for thee, and gird them with sackcloth, and they shall weep for thee with bitterness of heart and bitter wailing.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]And in their wailing they shall take up a lamentation for thee, and lament over thee, saying, What city is like Tyrus, like the destroyed in the midst of the sea?
[SUP]33 [/SUP]When thy wares went forth out of the seas, thou filledst many people; thou didst enrich the kings of the earth with the multitude of thy riches and of thy merchandise.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]In the time when thou shalt be broken by the seas in the depths of the waters thy merchandise and all thy company in the midst of thee shall fall.
[SUP]35 [/SUP]All the inhabitants of the isles shall be astonished at thee, and their kings shall be sore afraid, they shall be troubled in their countenance.
[SUP]36 [/SUP]The merchants among the people shall hiss at thee; thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt be any more.

For the point of humans compared to non-human things let's examine Ezekiel chapter 31 likening Pharoah, a human king of Egypt and his armies, to trees in Eden. Whole prophecy is good, will underline the pertinent parts for you.

Ezekiel 31

1 And it came to pass in the eleventh year, in the third month, in the first day of the month, that the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Son of man, speak unto Pharaoh king of Egypt, and to his multitude; Whom art thou like in thy greatness?
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Behold, the Assyrian was a cedar in Lebanon with fair branches, and with a shadowing shroud, and of an high stature; and his top was among the thick boughs.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]The waters made him great, the deep set him up on high with her rivers running round about his plants, and sent her little rivers unto all the trees of the field.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Therefore his height was exalted above all the trees of the field, and his boughs were multiplied, and his branches became long because of the multitude of waters, when he shot forth.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]All the fowls of heaven made their nests in his boughs, and under his branches did all the beasts of the field bring forth their young, and under his shadow dwelt all great nations.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Thus was he fair in his greatness, in the length of his branches: for his root was by great waters.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]The cedars in the garden of God could not hide him: the fir trees were not like his boughs, and the chestnut trees were not like his branches; nor any tree in the garden of God was like unto him in his beauty.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]I have made him fair by the multitude of his branches: so that all the trees of Eden, that were in the garden of God, envied him.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Because thou hast lifted up thyself in height, and he hath shot up his top among the thick boughs, and his heart is lifted up in his height;
[SUP]11 [/SUP]I have therefore delivered him into the hand of the mighty one of the heathen; he shall surely deal with him: I have driven him out for his wickedness.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And strangers, the terrible of the nations, have cut him off, and have left him: upon the mountains and in all the valleys his branches are fallen, and his boughs are broken by all the rivers of the land; and all the people of the earth are gone down from his shadow, and have left him.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Upon his ruin shall all the fowls of the heaven remain, and all the beasts of the field shall be upon his branches:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]To the end that none of all the trees by the waters exalt themselves for their height, neither shoot up their top among the thick boughs, neither their trees stand up in their height, all that drink water: for they are all delivered unto death, to the nether parts of the earth, in the midst of the children of men, with them that go down to the pit.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Thus saith the Lord God; In the day when he went down to the grave I caused a mourning: I covered the deep for him, and I restrained the floods thereof, and the great waters were stayed: and I caused Lebanon to mourn for him, and all the trees of the field fainted for him.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]I made the nations to shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him down to hell with them that descend into the pit: and all the trees of Eden, the choice and best of Lebanon, all that drink water, shall be comforted in the nether parts of the earth.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]They also went down into hell with him unto them that be slain with the sword; and they that were his arm, that dwelt under his shadow in the midst of the heathen.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]To whom art thou thus like in glory and in greatness among the trees of Eden? yet shalt thou be brought down with the trees of Eden unto the nether parts of the earth: thou shalt lie in the midst of the uncircumcised with them that be slain by the sword. This is Pharaoh and all his multitude, saith the Lord God.

Is · Jan 15, 2016

GodIsSalvation said:

Eden was also a city in that region of the time (note verse 23) as one plausibility given the reference to it in Ezekiel 27, which also speaks about Tyrus/Tyre. Contains many similar themes to Ezekiel 28.

Ezekiel 27

1 The word of the Lord came again unto me, saying,
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Now, thou son of man, take up a lamentation for Tyrus;
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And say unto Tyrus, O thou that art situate at the entry of the sea, which art a merchant of the people for many isles, Thus saith the Lord God; O Tyrus, thou hast said, I am of perfect beauty.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Thy borders are in the midst of the seas, thy builders have perfected thy beauty.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]They have made all thy ship boards of fir trees of Senir: they have taken cedars from Lebanon to make masts for thee.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Of the oaks of Bashan have they made thine oars; the company of the Ashurites have made thy benches of ivory, brought out of the isles of Chittim.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Fine linen with broidered work from Egypt was that which thou spreadest forth to be thy sail; blue and purple from the isles of Elishah was that which covered thee.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]The inhabitants of Zidon and Arvad were thy mariners: thy wise men, O Tyrus, that were in thee, were thy pilots.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]The ancients of Gebal and the wise men thereof were in thee thy calkers: all the ships of the sea with their mariners were in thee to occupy thy merchandise.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]They of Persia and of Lud and of Phut were in thine army, thy men of war: they hanged the shield and helmet in thee; they set forth thy comeliness.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]The men of Arvad with thine army were upon thy walls round about, and the Gammadims were in thy towers: they hanged their shields upon thy walls round about; they have made thy beauty perfect.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Tarshish was thy merchant by reason of the multitude of all kind of riches; with silver, iron, tin, and lead, they traded in thy fairs.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Javan, Tubal, and Meshech, they were thy merchants: they traded the persons of men and vessels of brass in thy market.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]They of the house of Togarmah traded in thy fairs with horses and horsemen and mules.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]The men of Dedan were thy merchants; many isles were the merchandise of thine hand: they brought thee for a present horns of ivory and ebony.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Syria was thy merchant by reason of the multitude of the wares of thy making: they occupied in thy fairs with emeralds, purple, and broidered work, and fine linen, and coral, and agate.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Judah, and the land of Israel, they were thy merchants: they traded in thy market wheat of Minnith, and Pannag, and honey, and oil, and balm.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Damascus was thy merchant in the multitude of the wares of thy making, for the multitude of all riches; in the wine of Helbon, and white wool.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Dan also and Javan going to and fro occupied in thy fairs: bright iron, cassia, and calamus, were in thy market.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Dedan was thy merchant in precious clothes for chariots.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Arabia, and all the princes of Kedar, they occupied with thee in lambs, and rams, and goats: in these were they thy merchants.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]The merchants of Sheba and Raamah, they were thy merchants: they occupied in thy fairs with chief of all spices, and with all precious stones, and gold.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Haran, and Canneh, and Eden, the merchants of Sheba, Asshur, and Chilmad, were thy merchants.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]These were thy merchants in all sorts of things, in blue clothes, and broidered work, and in chests of rich apparel, bound with cords, and made of cedar, among thy merchandise.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]The ships of Tarshish did sing of thee in thy market: and thou wast replenished, and made very glorious in the midst of the seas.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]Thy rowers have brought thee into great waters: the east wind hath broken thee in the midst of the seas.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]Thy riches, and thy fairs, thy merchandise, thy mariners, and thy pilots, thy calkers, and the occupiers of thy merchandise, and all thy men of war, that are in thee, and in all thy company which is in the midst of thee, shall fall into the midst of the seas in the day of thy ruin.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]The suburbs shall shake at the sound of the cry of thy pilots.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]And all that handle the oar, the mariners, and all the pilots of the sea, shall come down from their ships, they shall stand upon the land;
[SUP]30 [/SUP]And shall cause their voice to be heard against thee, and shall cry bitterly, and shall cast up dust upon their heads, they shall wallow themselves in the ashes:
[SUP]31 [/SUP]And they shall make themselves utterly bald for thee, and gird them with sackcloth, and they shall weep for thee with bitterness of heart and bitter wailing.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]And in their wailing they shall take up a lamentation for thee, and lament over thee, saying, What city is like Tyrus, like the destroyed in the midst of the sea?
[SUP]33 [/SUP]When thy wares went forth out of the seas, thou filledst many people; thou didst enrich the kings of the earth with the multitude of thy riches and of thy merchandise.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]In the time when thou shalt be broken by the seas in the depths of the waters thy merchandise and all thy company in the midst of thee shall fall.
[SUP]35 [/SUP]All the inhabitants of the isles shall be astonished at thee, and their kings shall be sore afraid, they shall be troubled in their countenance.
[SUP]36 [/SUP]The merchants among the people shall hiss at thee; thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt be any more.

For the point of humans compared to non-human things let's examine Ezekiel chapter 31 likening Pharoah, a human king of Egypt and his armies, to trees in Eden. Whole prophecy is good, will underline the pertinent parts for you.

Ezekiel 31

1 And it came to pass in the eleventh year, in the third month, in the first day of the month, that the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Son of man, speak unto Pharaoh king of Egypt, and to his multitude; Whom art thou like in thy greatness?
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Behold, the Assyrian was a cedar in Lebanon with fair branches, and with a shadowing shroud, and of an high stature; and his top was among the thick boughs.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]The waters made him great, the deep set him up on high with her rivers running round about his plants, and sent her little rivers unto all the trees of the field.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Therefore his height was exalted above all the trees of the field, and his boughs were multiplied, and his branches became long because of the multitude of waters, when he shot forth.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]All the fowls of heaven made their nests in his boughs, and under his branches did all the beasts of the field bring forth their young, and under his shadow dwelt all great nations.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Thus was he fair in his greatness, in the length of his branches: for his root was by great waters.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]The cedars in the garden of God could not hide him: the fir trees were not like his boughs, and the chestnut trees were not like his branches; nor any tree in the garden of God was like unto him in his beauty.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]I have made him fair by the multitude of his branches: so that all the trees of Eden, that were in the garden of God, envied him.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Because thou hast lifted up thyself in height, and he hath shot up his top among the thick boughs, and his heart is lifted up in his height;
[SUP]11 [/SUP]I have therefore delivered him into the hand of the mighty one of the heathen; he shall surely deal with him: I have driven him out for his wickedness.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And strangers, the terrible of the nations, have cut him off, and have left him: upon the mountains and in all the valleys his branches are fallen, and his boughs are broken by all the rivers of the land; and all the people of the earth are gone down from his shadow, and have left him.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Upon his ruin shall all the fowls of the heaven remain, and all the beasts of the field shall be upon his branches:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]To the end that none of all the trees by the waters exalt themselves for their height, neither shoot up their top among the thick boughs, neither their trees stand up in their height, all that drink water: for they are all delivered unto death, to the nether parts of the earth, in the midst of the children of men, with them that go down to the pit.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Thus saith the Lord God; In the day when he went down to the grave I caused a mourning: I covered the deep for him, and I restrained the floods thereof, and the great waters were stayed: and I caused Lebanon to mourn for him, and all the trees of the field fainted for him.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]I made the nations to shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him down to hell with them that descend into the pit: and all the trees of Eden, the choice and best of Lebanon, all that drink water, shall be comforted in the nether parts of the earth.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]They also went down into hell with him unto them that be slain with the sword; and they that were his arm, that dwelt under his shadow in the midst of the heathen.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]To whom art thou thus like in glory and in greatness among the trees of Eden? yet shalt thou be brought down with the trees of Eden unto the nether parts of the earth: thou shalt lie in the midst of the uncircumcised with them that be slain by the sword. This is Pharaoh and all his multitude, saith the Lord God.

Can you read? I said angelic beings.

GodIsSalvation · Jan 15, 2016

Is said:

Lol I read that.

Still seems to me a symbolic likening of King of Tyre to a once beautiful cherubim. Seems to me perhaps same king of Tyre described in the chapter before it. As reference people can be likened to non-people, consider the trees written in the same book in chapter 31.

Praise Jesus and may your branches, bark, root, and fruit flourish lady IS and may all the precious CC trees of New Eden grow in the way best for them for God's new garden.

Tintin · Jan 15, 2016

We shouldn't raise up Josephus' works above the Bible or put them at the same level as the Bible, but his works are still very important from a historical perspective. So I wouldn't say he was dubious, nor that he was far removed from the history he reports (well, not all of it anyway).

jb · Jan 16, 2016

Is said:

I immediately thought of...

Is · Jan 16, 2016

jb said:

What is that?

GodIsSalvation · Jan 16, 2016

Is said:

jb said:

Nimbus chariot with a weird rod?

RachelBibleStudent · Jan 16, 2016

we know nothing with any certainty about nimrod other than what the bible tells us...which is not much...

given that the bible says so little about him...it is unlikely that he was anywhere near as influential on the course of history as many christians seem to think...

nimrod is not mentioned by name in any extrabiblical source that would have been even remotely contemporary with his life...remember this any time you hear anyone appealing to history or archaeology as sources of information about nimrod...

while i respect josephus and his work and i view him as a reliable source of information about times closer to his own...his account of nimrod is basically nothing more than jewish legend...

for anyone trying to identify nimrod with a known historical figure...the most likely candidate is king enmerkar of uruk...

prove-all · Jan 16, 2016

Re: Isaac

GodIsSalvation said:

Both the birthright and the scepter were repromised by the Eternal
to Abraham and [Isaac] and to Jacob.
----
that Isaac was born by promise, and by a miracle from God,
“And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed;
and thou shalt call his name Isaac:

and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant,
and with his seed after him. And as for Ishmael, I … will make him fruitful,
and will multiply him exceedingly … and I will make him a great nation.

But my covenant will I establish with Isaac …” (verses 19-21).

Abraham wanted ishmael, Genesis 17:18, but God chose Isaac, first lawful son
Abraham gave all that he had unto Isaac (Genesis 25:5)

The promise, as confirmed to Isaac, Genesis 26:3-5 all these countries...
Ishmael and Abraham’s other sons were rejected from this birthright.

a future nation to spring from Ishmael, from Sarah’s Egyptian handmaid
the angel of the Eternal had said to Hagar: “[H]e will be a wild man;
his hand will be against every man, and every man’s hand against
him; and he shall dwell to the east of all his brethren” (Genesis 16:12).

Ishmael’s descendants were to become a great nation,the birthright nations
were to be greater they were to dwell to the east of their brethren(Isaac)

The children of Ishmael have become the Arabs of today.

-

Isaac had twin sons, [Esau and Jacob]. Esau was the firstborn

And the first came out red, all over like an hairy garment;
and they called his name Esau.And after that came his brother out,
and his hand took hold on Esau's heel; and his name was called Jacob

The Eternal had said to Rebekah, regarding Esau and Jacob,
that they were the beginning of two nations—“two manner of people "
… the one people shall be stronger than the other people,” said God,
“and the elder shall serve the younger”(Genesis 25:23).

- would Esau have know he was to serve his brother.

And Esau said to Jacob, Feed me, I pray thee, with that same red pottage;
for I am faint: therefore was his name called Edom.”
And Jacob said, Swear to me this day; and he sware unto him:
and he sold his birthright unto Jacob.

“Edom” means, literally, “red soup,” and is so translated
remember the fact that “Edom” now refers to Esau

the name Edom refer to the descendants of Esau,
primarily the Turkish nation today.

prove-all · Jan 16, 2016

It was wrong for Esau to sell his birthright, specaily so cheep and with disregard for it.
It was wrong for Jacob to recieve blessings with deceit in mind for personal gain.

by buying his brothers birthright [future fathers physical possessions]
this act did not change Jacob name then. Esau was not seen bad for hunting,
but for selling his birthright dirt cheap, in a way dispising his fathers inheritence.

a recap of God’s Promises to Abrahams seed, or physical descendants- passed to Jacob

¦Genesis 12:1-2 | God promises Abraham that his descendants will become a great nation.
¦Genesis 17:1-6 | God promises Abraham will be a father of many nations, not just one.
¦Genesis 22:16-18|the birthright nations will possess the gates (access points) of their enemies.
¦Genesis 26:3-5 | God promises the birthright nations will multiply as the stars of heaven.

¦Genesis 27:26-29 | the birthright nations will become wealthy and rule over other nations.

¦Genesis 28:13-14 | the birthright nations will spread worldwide.
¦Genesis 35:11 | the birthright nations will become “a nation and a company of nations.”

prove-all · Jan 16, 2016

Re: Isaac

-his perfect chance for what ? was it not his mom, this ploy was her idea?

1And it came to pass, that when Isaac was old, and his eyes were dim,
so that he could not see, he called Esau his eldest son,

4And make me savoury meat, such as I love, and bring it to me, that I may eat;
that my soul may bless thee before I die.

-here Isaac was to bless his first born son, Esau was his first born, or eldest .

12My father peradventure will feel me, and I shall seem to him as a deceiver;
and I shall bring a curse upon me, and not a blessing.

13And his mother said unto him, Upon me be thy curse, my son:
only obey my voice, and go fetch me them.

- Jacob knew it was deception and a lie, but followed his mother anyway.
this blessing was also different then the birthright, where one could be cursed or blessed.

18And he came unto his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I;
who art thou, my son? And [Jacob said] unto his father,

[I am Esau] thy firstborn; I have done according as thou badest me:
arise, I pray thee, sit and eat of my venison, that thy soul may bless me.

-he was not Esau or the first born, also Isaac did not talk to Jacob about food.
his name was not changed, he was still Jacob here.

20And Isaac said unto his son, How is it that thou hast found it so quickly,
my son? And he said, Because the Lord thy God brought it to me

-was not this meal made by him and his mom, not from God.

24And he said, Art thou my very son Esau? And he said, I am.

-subtle? and again he lied to his allmost blind father that his name was Esau.

prove-all · Jan 16, 2016

Jacob lied and tricked his father into giving him the first blessing,
so Isaac blessed Jacob” (verses 21-23).

Therefore God give thee (Jacob) of the dew of heaven, and the fatness
of the earth, and plenty of corn and wine: increase and possession]:

Let people serve thee, and nations bow down to thee: be lord over thy brethren,
and let thy mother’s sons bow down to thee: cursed be every one that
curseth thee, and blessed be he that blesseth thee” Genesis 27:26-29

Isaac kinda cursed Esau,“Behold, thy dwelling shall be away from
the fatness of the earth, and of the dew of heaven from above;
And by thy sword shalt thou live, and shalt serve thy brother;

and it shall come to pass when thou shalt have the dominion,
that thou shalt break his yoke from off thy neck.

And Esau hated Jacob …” (verses 39-41).

-yes Esau could have killed his brother, like cain did.

this "yoke from off thy neck" has not been fulfilled I believe, future event
even though we see Esau and Jacob's as brothers reconciliation later on

-where material blessing of wealth in the things of the ground is added,
heathen nations shall be ruled by the birthright nations of Israel

And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread
abroad to the west, and to the east,and to the north,and to the south
(Genesis 28:13-14).

Israel shall eventually spread around the world as dust of the ground,
and sands of the sea shore. Genesis 28:15 “

I am with thee, and will keep thee in all places whither thou goest,
and will bring thee again into this land; for I will not leave thee,
until I have done that which I have spoken to thee of”

But after years of trial and test—after finally wrestling all night
with the angel (Genesis 32:24-29)—after confessing his name as

“supplanter”—God bestowed His blessing upon Jacob, took away
his reproachful name, and gave him a new, untainted name,

Israel—which means “prevailer,” or “overcomer with God.”

God appeared to Jacob, whose name was changed to Israel (Genesis 35:11).
through Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the promises were handed down
to one man at a time, but now they split.

--

The sceptre shall not depart from Judah …” (Genesis 49:10).
But the birthright was Joseph’s” (1 Chronicles 5:2).

Is · Jan 17, 2016

[TABLE="class: MsoNormalTable"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 295"][h=3]NIMROD[/h][/TD]
[TD="width: 295"][h=3]ANTICHRIST[/h][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 295"]Nimrod was son of Cush, son of Ham (Gen. 10:6-7) who was son of Noah, son of Adam, son of God.
[/TD]
[TD="width: 295"]Lucifer and all angels were created by God (Heb. 1:1-13, Col. 1:17). They are called “sons of God” (Gen. 6:2, Job 1:6), though not The SON of God (1 John 5:20).
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 295"]Ham and his descendants were cursed by God (Gen. 9:25) for Ham having looked at the nakedness of Noah (Gen. 9:22).
[/TD]
[TD="width: 295"]Satan, the “father” of the Antichrist (Rev. 13:2, 4) was cursed by God (Is 14:15) for having compared himself to God saying “I will ascend”, etc. (Is. 14:12-15).
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 295"]Ham was one third of the sons of Noah (Gen. 5:32).
[/TD]
[TD="width: 295"]Because of Lucifer’s rebellion, God threw one third of the angels down to the earth in judgment (Rev. 12:4, 9) and some were put in chains until the Great White Throne judgment (Jude 1:6).
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 295"]Nimrod “began to be a mighty one in the earth” (Gen. 10:8)
[/TD]
[TD="width: 295"]Nimrod prefigured him “whose coming is after the working of Satan, with all power and signs and lying wonders” (2 Thess. 2:9). It is interesting to note that Nimrod “began to be mighty”, which suggests that he struggled for the pre-eminence among those after the Flood and obtained his kingdom of Babel by force of will. This seems to correspond with the Man of Sin first appearing as “the little horn” (Dan. 8:9) and by force of conquest he gains the position of ruler of the global government (Rev. 13:8, 17:7-13).
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 295"]Nimrod is also called “mighty hunter” (Gen 10:9; 1 Chr. 1:10). Hunter is tsayid in Hebrew, meaning venison, hunter, victuals, provision, hunting, catch, food (Strongs). This means Nimrod pursued, hunted and pushed his designs in brazen defiance of his Maker. The words “mighty hunter before the Lord”are found twice in Gen. 10:9. Repetition in any short narrative of Scripture is always highly significant. If we compare the expression with a similar one in Gen. 6:11, - “The earth also (in the days of Noah) was corrupt before God” - the impression conveyed is that this “Rebel” Nimrod pursued his impious designs in open defiance of the Almighty, hunting what he wanted and catching men in the process. The contents of Gen. 11 abundantly confirm this interpretation.
[/TD]
[TD="width: 295"]In like manner, of the Antichrist it is written, “And the King shall do according to his will, and he shall exalt himself and magnify himself above every god (ruler), and shall speak marvelous things against the God of gods” (Dan. 11:36). The devil, who possesses the Antichrist, “walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.” (1 Pet. 5:8)
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 295"]Nimrod was called a “Man of Blood”. In 1 Chron. 1:10 - “And Cush begat Nimrod; he began to be mighty upon the earth”. The Chaldea paraphrase of this verse says, “Cush begat Nimrod who began to prevail in wickedness for he slew innocent blood and rebelled against Jehovah”.[SUP]2[/SUP]This, coupled with the expression “a mighty Hunter before the Lord”, suggests that he relentlessly sought out and slew God's people.
[/TD]
[TD="width: 295"]Nimrod accurately portrayed the bloody and deceitful Man (Psa. 5:6), the violent Man (Psa. 140:1) the Antichrist to come.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 295"]Nimrod was a King - “the beginning of his kingdom was Babel” (Gen. 10:10. In the verses which follow in Gen. 10 we read, “He went out into Assyria and buildedNinevah, and the city Rehoboth, and Calah”, etc. (Gen. 10:11). From these statements it is evident that Nimrod's ambition was to establish a world empire.
[/TD]
[TD="width: 295"]Nimrod was King of Babylon, which is also one of the many titles of the Antichrist (Isa. 14:4). The ambition of the Antichrist is also to establish a world empire (1 John 5:19, Rev. 13:8, 16:14).
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 295"]Nimrod obviously had an inordinate desire for fame, which is also consistent with archeological finds bearing his image. His consuming desire was to make for himself a name.

On the West Terrace of Mount Nimrod (or NemrutDagi), sunset light falls on a 40-ton head of Greek god “Zeus” (Nimrod according to Turkish people) capped with a Persian tiara.
[/TD]
[TD="width: 295"]Nimrod corresponds with the type of the Man of Sin who will expressly dominate as “King over all the children of pride” (John 41:34).

More of the Nemrut (Turkey) stone heads of Nimrod.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 295"]What is recorded in Gen. 10 about Nimrod supplies the key to the first half of Gen. 11 which tells of the building of the Tower of Babel. Gen. 10:10 informs us that the beginning of Nimrod's kingdom was Babel. The Greek form of the Hebrew word bavelor Babel is closely allied and probably derived from the Akkadianbabiluor “gate of God.” Afterwards, because of the judgment which the Lord there inflicted, Babel came to mean “confusion (by mixing)”. That at the time Nimrod founded Babel this word signified “the gate (the figure of official position) of God”, intimates that he not only organized an imperial government over which he presided as king, but that he also instituted a new and idolatrous system of worship. Nimrod demanded and received Divine honors. In all probability, it was at this point that idolatry was introduced.[SUP]3[/SUP]
[/TD]
[TD="width: 295"]The Lawless One will yet establish a government of idolatrous worship of himself (Rev. 13:15).
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 295"]The tower of Babel was a high place of worship. There is a definite connection between the worship of Nimrod and the later worship of the “supreme being” of Babylon, Marduk. “After their deaths, Nimrod and his wife Semiramis (the ancient “queen of heaven”) were confirmed by their priests as gods and given homage as Marduk and Astarte.”[SUP]4[/SUP]
[/TD]
[TD="width: 295"]The Lord forbade the Jews to build high watchtowers for the purposes of worship (2 Kings 17:9). The Antichrist will force people to worship his image in the rebuilt temple situated on the high place of the temple mount in Jerusalem, likely next to the abomination of the Dome of the Rock mosque (Rev. 13:15, 2 Thes. 2:4). This third rebuilt temple is contrary to the commands of the Lord Jesus Christ (though there will be a fourth temple built in the Millennium) because in this era He has said He does not dwell in temples made by human hands, but dwells in the spirit of men who have believed on the Lord Jesus Christ and are baptized in the Holy Spirit, and in their midst when they meet as the Church. (Acts 7:48, 1 Cor. 6:19). The Antichrist will “magnify himself above every god” (Dan. 11:36).
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 295"]Nimrod’s ambition was to establish a world empire.To accomplish this, two things were necessary. First, a center of unity, a city headquarters; and second, a motivefor the encouragement and inspiration of his followers. This latter was supplied in the “let us make us a name.” (Gen. 11:4) It was an inordinate desire for fame. Nimrod’s aim was to keep mankind all together under his own leadership “lest we be scattered.” (Gen. 11:4) The idea of the “tower” (considered in the light of its setting) seems to be that of strength—a stronghold—rather than eminence.
[/TD]
[TD="width: 295"]The Antichrist is described as giving his worship to a “god of forces” (Dan. 11:38 KJV) or “god of fortresses” (Dan 11:38 NKJV). The word for forces or fortresses in Hebrew is ma‘owzmeaning strength, strong, fortress, hold, forces, fort, rock, strengthen. (Strongs) It is possible that this god of the Antichrist (though actually Satan) will be Nimrod/Marduk that Babylon worshipped as a god of fortresses. This would mean that the Antichrist is worshipping himself in a preexistent type. This would be consistent with the character of Satan. No one yet knows these things but the Nimrod typology seems consistent with this “god of fortresses”.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

NayborBear · Jan 17, 2016

"Lucifer and all angels were created by God (Heb. 1:1-13, Col. 1:17). They are called “sons of God” (Gen. 6:2, Job 1:6), though not The SON of God (1 John 5:20). "

Sons of God, translated: B'nai Elohim, from the hebrew, although never in a good sense.

prove-all · Jan 17, 2016

Re: Sons of God [Angeles]

NayborBear said:

never good ? 1 third bad plus, 2 thirds good equals all angels

In the first chapter of Hebrews, we read of angels serving as God’s secret messengers,
sent forth to minister to those God has called to salvation and eternal life.

In Ephesians 6 it is stated that our contentions and strivings are in fact not with other
human people, but against “principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the
darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness [evil spirits] in high places.”

In Ephesians 2:2, humans have been walking “according to the course of this world,
according to the prince of the power of the air [Satan], the spirit that now worketh
in the children of disobedience.”

This invisible spirit world (Colossians 1:15-16) is very real but because it is invisible
it has been a mystery. The fact that holy angels and evil spirits are invisible does not
negate their existence.

The Bible explains: “If our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: in whom
the god of this world [Satan] hath blinded the minds of them which believe not”
(2 Corinthians 4:3-4). Satan is the god of this world.

the very first thing God created was not the earth, suns, other planets or the universe.
Before all these he created the angelic beings—a spirit world of myriads of angelic beings.

Angels are actual personal spirit beings, each having a mind of greater capacity and
ability than human minds, capable of attitudes, purposes and intentions.

It is stated that even Jesus as a human was made “a little lower than the angels”
(Hebrews 2:7).

They are composed wholly of spirit. They were given self-containing life—life inherent.
They have no blood circulating in veins and do not need the breath of air to sustain life,
but have self-containing inherent life—immortality.

Angels are, because created by God, called sons of God (Job 1:6),
but they were not begotten and born sons of God.

Jesus Christ said, “I work and my Father works” (John 5:17).

In John 1 , that predates anything it is revealed that God and the Word
They created. One might say that by profession they were in the creating business.
To aid them in the work of creating, governing and managing what was to be created,

they first of all created other spirit beings on a lower plane than the God family.
Angels were created to be ministers, agents, helpers in God’s creation.
They were created as servants of the living God.

-

From eternity God was supreme, God sat on the throne of all that existed
or was to exist. His Kingdom is from everlasting to everlasting.

Thy throne is established of old: thou art from everlasting.
Thy kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and thy dominion
endureth throughout all generations.
-
In the 25th chapter of Exodus, we find an earthly description of
the very throne of God in heaven, in the description of the ark
built by Moses under God’s instruction.

On either side of God’s throne was a super archangel, a cherub,
whose wings stretched out covering the very throne of God.

This signifies that these superior angels were involved in the very
administration of the government of God over all of God’s creation.
They were aides, ministers, servants, assisting God.

God has had angels specifically assigned to supervise and protect his Church
throughout all of its history (Revelation 1:4, 16, 20; 2:1, 8, 12, 18; 3:1, 7, 14).

He has angels who continually walk through the earth to observe and
report back to him the overall conditions on earth (Revelation 5:6;
Zechariah 4:10; 2 Chronicles 16:9).

And God has angels specifically assigned to look after his begotten human children
(Acts 12:15; Matthew 18:10). God promises: “For he shall give his angels charge
over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways” (Psalm 91:11).

Twelve of God’s angels will be the gatekeepers in the new city of Jerusalem (Rev 21:12),
one for each tribe of Israel. These 12 may be assisting the archangel Michael now.

Angels are messengers. They appeared to Abraham, Lot, Hagar, Moses,
Manoah, Gideon, Elijah and many of the prophets and apostles.

When these angels manifest themselves to human beings, they generally
do so in [the form of men].

-

The Bible mentions three angels of high rank: Lucifer (Isaiah 14:12),
now name [changed] to Satan the devil; -all through the bible, names change
reflecting there new caharacter, an angels names would be no different.

Gabriel, who appeared to Daniel on two occasions (Daniel 8:16; 9:21),
to Zacharias, the father of John the Baptist (Luke 1:19),
and later Mary, the mother of Jesus (Luke 1:26);

and third, Michael, called one of the chief princes (Daniel 10:13),
and whom Jude identifies as an archangel (Jude 9). Michael is the archangel
specifically assigned to protect and minister to the 12 tribes of Israel
(Daniel 12:1; 10:2-13, 21) and to the Church of God today (Revelation 12:7).

God assigns angels responsibilities, but God created within them minds,
with power to think, to reason, to make choices and decisions!

But there was one super-important quality that even God’s creative powers could
not create instantly by fiat—the same perfect, holy, righteous character inherent
in both God and the Word!

This kind of character must be developed, by the choice and the intent
of the one in whom it comes to exist.

Is · Jan 17, 2016

Alexander Hyslop makes an astute deduction when he says:

"In Gen.10:11, we find a passage, which, when its meaning is properly understood, casts a very steady light on the subject. That passage, as given in the authorised version, runs thus :-"Out ot that land went forth Asshur, and builded Nineveh." This speaks of it as something remarkable, that Asshur went out of the land of Shinar,while yet the human race in general went forth from the same land.

It goes upon the supposition that Asshur had some sort of divine right to the land, and that he had been, in a manner, expelled from it by Nimrod, while no divine right elsewhere hinted at in the context, or seems capable of proof. Moreover, it represents Asshur as setting up in the immediate neighborhood of Nimrod as mighty a kingdom as Nimrod himself, Asshur building four cities, one of which is emphatically said to have been "great" (v.12); while Nimrod, on this interpretation, built just the same number of cities, one of which none is specially characterised as "great." Now, it is in the last degree improbable that Nimrod would have quietly borne so mighty a rival so near him.

To obviate such difficulties as these, it has been proposed to render the words, "out of that land he (Nimrod) went forth into Asshur, or Assyria." But, then, according to ordinary usage of grammer, the word in the original should have been "Ashurah," with the sign motion to a place affixed to it, whereas it is simply Asshur, without any such sign of motion affixed.

I am persuaded that the whole perplexity that commentators have hitherto felt in considering this passage, has arisen from supposing that there is a proper name in the passage, when in reality no proper name exists. Asshur is the passage pariticiple of a verb, which in its Chaldee sense signifies "to make strong," and consequently, signifies "being strengthened," or "made strong."

Read thus, the whole passage is natural and easy (ver.10), "And the beginning of his (Nimrod's) kingdom was Babel, and Erech, and Accad, and Calneh." A beginning naturally implies something to succeed, and here we find it (ver.11); "Out ot that land he went forth, being strong, or when he had been made strong (Ashur), and builded Nineveh," &c. Now, this exactly agrees with the statement in ancient history of Justin:

"Ninus strengthened the greatness of his acquired dominion by continued possession. Having subdued, therefore, his neighbors, when by an accession of forces, being still further strengthened, he went forth against orther tribes, and every new victory paved the way for another, he subdued all the people of the East." (Justin, Hist. Rom. Script., vol. ii. p. 615. The words of the original ase the following:- "Ninus magnitudinem quaesitae dominationis continua possessione firmavit. Cum accessione virum fortior, ad alios transiret, et proxima quaeque victoria instrumentum sequedntis esset totius Orientis populos subegit.")

Thus, then, Nimrod, or Ninus, was the builder of Nineveh; and the origin of the nature of that city, as "the habitation of Ninus," is accounted for and light thereby, at the same time, cast on the fact, that the name of the chief part of the ruins is Nimroud at this day.

Alexander Hyslop, The Two Babylons, pgs. 24&25

Tintin · Jan 17, 2016

Hyslop was a moron, Is. Don't believe his pap. We've discussed it before. Why do you continue to believe such stuff?

RachelBibleStudent · Jan 17, 2016

Is said:

Alexander Hyslop makes an astute deduction when he says:

"In Gen.10:11, we find a passage, which, when its meaning is properly understood, casts a very steady light on the subject. That passage, as given in the authorised version, runs thus :-"Out ot that land went forth Asshur, and builded Nineveh." This speaks of it as something remarkable, that Asshur went out of the land of Shinar,while yet the human race in general went forth from the same land.

It goes upon the supposition that Asshur had some sort of divine right to the land, and that he had been, in a manner, expelled from it by Nimrod, while no divine right elsewhere hinted at in the context, or seems capable of proof. Moreover, it represents Asshur as setting up in the immediate neighborhood of Nimrod as mighty a kingdom as Nimrod himself, Asshur building four cities, one of which is emphatically said to have been "great" (v.12); while Nimrod, on this interpretation, built just the same number of cities, one of which none is specially characterised as "great." Now, it is in the last degree improbable that Nimrod would have quietly borne so mighty a rival so near him.

To obviate such difficulties as these, it has been proposed to render the words, "out of that land he (Nimrod) went forth into Asshur, or Assyria." But, then, according to ordinary usage of grammer, the word in the original should have been "Ashurah," with the sign motion to a place affixed to it, whereas it is simply Asshur, without any such sign of motion affixed.

I am persuaded that the whole perplexity that commentators have hitherto felt in considering this passage, has arisen from supposing that there is a proper name in the passage, when in reality no proper name exists. Asshur is the passage pariticiple of a verb, which in its Chaldee sense signifies "to make strong," and consequently, signifies "being strengthened," or "made strong."

Read thus, the whole passage is natural and easy (ver.10), "And the beginning of his (Nimrod's) kingdom was Babel, and Erech, and Accad, and Calneh." A beginning naturally implies something to succeed, and here we find it (ver.11); "Out ot that land he went forth, being strong, or when he had been made strong (Ashur), and builded Nineveh," &c. Now, this exactly agrees with the statement in ancient history of Justin:

"Ninus strengthened the greatness of his acquired dominion by continued possession. Having subdued, therefore, his neighbors, when by an accession of forces, being still further strengthened, he went forth against orther tribes, and every new victory paved the way for another, he subdued all the people of the East." (Justin, Hist. Rom. Script., vol. ii. p. 615. The words of the original ase the following:- "Ninus magnitudinem quaesitae dominationis continua possessione firmavit. Cum accessione virum fortior, ad alios transiret, et proxima quaeque victoria instrumentum sequedntis esset totius Orientis populos subegit.")

Thus, then, Nimrod, or Ninus, was the builder of Nineveh; and the origin of the nature of that city, as "the habitation of Ninus," is accounted for and light thereby, at the same time, cast on the fact, that the name of the chief part of the ruins is Nimroud at this day.

Alexander Hyslop, The Two Babylons, pgs. 24&25

the problem with this is...'ninus' was a legendary figure...not a real king...

check all of the mesopotamian king lists for confirmation...

as i said before...if you want the most likely candidate for the historical nimrod...look into enmerkar of uruk...

Nimrod

Banned

Is

Guest

Banned

Is

Guest

Banned

Tintin

Guest

Senior Member

Is

Guest

Banned

RachelBibleStudent

Guest

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Is

Guest

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy

Senior Member

Is

Guest

Tintin

Guest

RachelBibleStudent

Guest