I am to read and study all Scripture, but I use Paul's epistles to the body of Christ as my guideline to follow. I get my doctrine, my direction, form these 13 epistles. If, when I'm studying outside these epistles and something doesn't match, rather than try to explain it another way so it will match, I simple know that teaching is to another dispensation outside the Church Age. No need to panic and change words and meanings to try and make it fit. In order to rightly divide this way, you have to take what God said literally unless the context says different. The words "like" and "as" are good indicators and of course parables.
Gospel of the Kingdom vs the Gospel Paul preached
- Thread starter John146
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K
Missouri, you're a dispensationalist and you don't even know it yet.
Are you a big Mizzou football fan? I coached TE Sean Culkin in H.S. He's a great kid, plus he looks like thor.
Are you a big Mizzou football fan? I coached TE Sean Culkin in H.S. He's a great kid, plus he looks like thor.
Yes I am a MIZZOU fan as well as the Chiefs who play against the Patriots today in the playoffs, looking for the Chiefs to upset that cheating organization !!!
I
"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." John 14:26
Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on: AND THEY SHALL SCOURGE HIM, AND PUT HIM TO DEATH: AND THE THRID DAY HE SHALL RISE AGAIN.
And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken." Luke 18:31-34
Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on: AND THEY SHALL SCOURGE HIM, AND PUT HIM TO DEATH: AND THE THRID DAY HE SHALL RISE AGAIN.
And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken." Luke 18:31-34
I'm confused... is the OP actually stating that Paul brought a different gospel?
Some preachers many years ago started this dual gospel idea, one for the Jews, and another for Gentiles, denying Paul's actual teaching of the one Gospel for both by trying to make it into two gospels because of what Paul said here:
Gal 2:7-8
7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
8 (For He That wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles
KJV
What that Scripture really is about is two different administrations of the SAME one Gospel of Jesus Christ, not two different gospels.
The Gospel was sent to Jerusalem and the Jews first. The majority of them there rejected Christ Jesus. Then the Gospel went to the Gentiles, which was actually... where the majority of the house of Israel (ten tribes) were scattered amongst.
Per OT history after the split of 1 Kings 11, the "house of Israel" represented only the ten northern tribes with one of Ephraim as king. God removed them out of the holy land first, scattering them through the countries, and they became lost. They actually made up the majority of the peoples of Israel. Josephus (100 A.D.) said they were still scattered abroad in his days and were a great number of people, too many to be numbered.
Per OT history after the split of 1 Kings 11, the "house of Israel" represented only the ten northern tribes with one of Ephraim as king. God removed them out of the holy land first, scattering them through the countries, and they became lost. They actually made up the majority of the peoples of Israel. Josephus (100 A.D.) said they were still scattered abroad in his days and were a great number of people, too many to be numbered.
I'd agree, Paul's writings, and even for that matter the Bible itself is not two gospels, only one gospel, literally Jesus. Only disagreement is starts even at Genesis 1. Echoed in opening John 1. Yay praise God, Jesus the Word which means he with the Father from the beginning and you can see it in Genesis 1 also.
Genesis 1:1-3
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
John 1:1-5
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]The same was in the beginning with God.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
Genesis 1:1-3
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
John 1:1-5
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]The same was in the beginning with God.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
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God through Jesus Christ turned His attention to the lost sheep of the "house of Israel" when the Gospel went to the Gentiles, which is where the majority of the "house of Israel" was scattered amongst, i.e., in the nations.
The ten tribed "house of Israel" of 1 Kings 11 forward were not Jews.
Those who mis-label Judah as the house of Israel lost sheep listen to men who don't really know their OT history, as there are some preachers who actually preach against that history, making the mistake of saying only the Jews represent the seed of Israel. It shows they either haven't read past 1 Kings 10, or they reject God's splitting old Israel into two separate kingdoms at 1 Kings 11 to 2 Kings 17 altogether in favor of men's doctrines instead. From 1 Kings 11 to 2 Kings 17 is a whole lot.... of Scripture to be rejecting, thus showing some have an agenda against it, and God's prophecies meant only... for the ten tribed house of Israel after that split.
The ten tribed "house of Israel" of 1 Kings 11 forward were not Jews.
Those who mis-label Judah as the house of Israel lost sheep listen to men who don't really know their OT history, as there are some preachers who actually preach against that history, making the mistake of saying only the Jews represent the seed of Israel. It shows they either haven't read past 1 Kings 10, or they reject God's splitting old Israel into two separate kingdoms at 1 Kings 11 to 2 Kings 17 altogether in favor of men's doctrines instead. From 1 Kings 11 to 2 Kings 17 is a whole lot.... of Scripture to be rejecting, thus showing some have an agenda against it, and God's prophecies meant only... for the ten tribed house of Israel after that split.
Yes, but that was about the creation.
We know from Scripture like John 17 and from the Apostles that our Lord Jesus was ordained to die on the cross even before... the foundation of this world. His coming to die on the cross and The Father raising Him is The Gospel which was first written of in the Old Testament Books, Gen.3 being the first actual hint of His crucifixion.
We know from Scripture like John 17 and from the Apostles that our Lord Jesus was ordained to die on the cross even before... the foundation of this world. His coming to die on the cross and The Father raising Him is The Gospel which was first written of in the Old Testament Books, Gen.3 being the first actual hint of His crucifixion.
I'd agree indeed. Point is Jesus present in Genesis 1 so even literally beginning for as to the crucifixion, resurrection and ascension of Jesus to his Father the blessed God of the Bible in the universalist sense which I always thought to semantically mean well, the whole universe whatsoever that contains, detailed throughout Bible but also obvious right there being created in the following verses lol. Of course that's just the opening to the whole chapters lol, all the books good for the reading though indeed good thoughts I think with this topic all around, good BDF discussion, praise Jesus for all of you and your good thoughts.
Sorry brother, but you show you haven't really studied the Old Testament prophecies about Christ's crucifixion. The prophecy was given through David in Psalms 22 about a thousand years before it happened, even to the detail of the soldiers casting lots on Jesus' clothing. Psalms 22:1 is what our Lord Jesus quoted on the cross even!
Isaiah 7 & 9 declared Him, even His Name "Immanuel" which means "God with us" per Matt.1:23.
Isaiah 19 mentions God sending them The Saviour. There are many OT mini-references to Christ's 1st coming and of His crucifixion, like Zech.12:10 and Zech.13:6, Gen.49:10 as "Shiloh", Isaiah 11 about the "BRANCH", Jer.23:5, Zech.3:8, Zech.6:12, Isaiah 61:1-2, Zech.9:9, and these are not all of them.
Because of the corruptions that happened to the Jew's religion during captivity in Babylon, men's traditions took over God's Word to the people, and because of that confusion they didn't fully understand those OT prophecies. Yet they were there all along in the OT Books. They knew that Christ was to come, and that's about it. They didn't yet understand His Ministry to die on the cross nor what that part was about, which is why Peter sought to prevent it. The people were basically looking for a fleshy prophet like Moses, someone to lead them out of the Roman captivity and bring back the glory of the kingdom of Israel as in the days of David (Deut.18:18).
Isaiah 7 & 9 declared Him, even His Name "Immanuel" which means "God with us" per Matt.1:23.
Isaiah 19 mentions God sending them The Saviour. There are many OT mini-references to Christ's 1st coming and of His crucifixion, like Zech.12:10 and Zech.13:6, Gen.49:10 as "Shiloh", Isaiah 11 about the "BRANCH", Jer.23:5, Zech.3:8, Zech.6:12, Isaiah 61:1-2, Zech.9:9, and these are not all of them.
Because of the corruptions that happened to the Jew's religion during captivity in Babylon, men's traditions took over God's Word to the people, and because of that confusion they didn't fully understand those OT prophecies. Yet they were there all along in the OT Books. They knew that Christ was to come, and that's about it. They didn't yet understand His Ministry to die on the cross nor what that part was about, which is why Peter sought to prevent it. The people were basically looking for a fleshy prophet like Moses, someone to lead them out of the Roman captivity and bring back the glory of the kingdom of Israel as in the days of David (Deut.18:18).
But that kind of Bible study is not how you do it. You start in Genesis 1 and go all the way through, understanding God's promises and His Salvation Messages, and by that begin to recognize the different covenants and to whom they were first given, and to whom they eventually were meant for. That because Apostle Paul did NOT teach anything against those things, but declared their fulfillment in Jesus Christ. This is why Paul spent so much time quoting directly from the OT prophets about Christ's Salvation.
Dispensationalism was a doctrine that John Nelson Darby started in 1830's Great Britain. Darby also was the main character to spread the false pre-trib rapture theory, which I assume you also must mistakenly believe. Those like Cyrus Scofield then spread that theory in the Americas. Apostle Paul strongly warned us about those who come preaching "another gospel" (2 Cor.11, Galatians).
Just because it wasn't time for the crucifixion when Jesus first sent disciples out to preach His coming, that did not mean what they were given to preach was apart from the One Gospel that He would accomplish later upon His cross. They taught The Gospel with the Baptism of John, for Jesus had not been crucified yet. But it was still the same Gospel of Jesus Christ.
The Darbyites (The Brethren) taught the Church is raptured to heaven prior to the tribulation, and all others left on the earth to go through it. To try and strengthen that idea, they added the idea of after Christ's 2nd coming the Church is still in heaven while the Jews have their kingdom established on earth throughout Christ's Millennium reign. That is how they then added their idea of two different gospels, one for the Jews involving an earthly kingdom, and another gospel for the Church reigning in heaven with Jesus. Darby's Dispensationalism defined that too, which is where the false Church Ages theories originate. All that is a false teaching created by Darby and the Brethren, and those who took it to the Americas, like Cyrus Scofield.
In reality what God's Word teaches is, there is only one Gospel of Jesus Christ for all, both Israel and Gentiles. Apostle Paul specifically shows this when he said there is no difference between the Jew or Gentile in Christ Jesus, for they are all one in Him (Galatians). Christ's Church is made up of both believing Israelite and Gentile together, as one body. This is why Paul called Peter down in Galatians for separating from Gentile believers when his Jewish brethren from Jerusalem came for a visit.
Also, there will be no... rapture of the Church prior to the time of great tribulation our Lord Jesus forewarned us about. There is no written Scripture of that sort anywhere in all of God's Word. There are only minds twisted by doctrines of men that say different. Christ's Church will suffer the great tribulation, and those who remain faithful will be saved when our Lord Jesus returns to end that event, and establishes His Kingdom upon this earth for His Millennium reign over ALL nations on the earth. Believing Israelites and Gentiles as His Church will both... together... inherit that Kingdom on earth as written. The wicked will be in a place of separation outside the holy city on earth during His Millennium reign (Rev.22:14-15; Rev.20).
Dispensationalism was a doctrine that John Nelson Darby started in 1830's Great Britain. Darby also was the main character to spread the false pre-trib rapture theory, which I assume you also must mistakenly believe. Those like Cyrus Scofield then spread that theory in the Americas. Apostle Paul strongly warned us about those who come preaching "another gospel" (2 Cor.11, Galatians).
Just because it wasn't time for the crucifixion when Jesus first sent disciples out to preach His coming, that did not mean what they were given to preach was apart from the One Gospel that He would accomplish later upon His cross. They taught The Gospel with the Baptism of John, for Jesus had not been crucified yet. But it was still the same Gospel of Jesus Christ.
The Darbyites (The Brethren) taught the Church is raptured to heaven prior to the tribulation, and all others left on the earth to go through it. To try and strengthen that idea, they added the idea of after Christ's 2nd coming the Church is still in heaven while the Jews have their kingdom established on earth throughout Christ's Millennium reign. That is how they then added their idea of two different gospels, one for the Jews involving an earthly kingdom, and another gospel for the Church reigning in heaven with Jesus. Darby's Dispensationalism defined that too, which is where the false Church Ages theories originate. All that is a false teaching created by Darby and the Brethren, and those who took it to the Americas, like Cyrus Scofield.
In reality what God's Word teaches is, there is only one Gospel of Jesus Christ for all, both Israel and Gentiles. Apostle Paul specifically shows this when he said there is no difference between the Jew or Gentile in Christ Jesus, for they are all one in Him (Galatians). Christ's Church is made up of both believing Israelite and Gentile together, as one body. This is why Paul called Peter down in Galatians for separating from Gentile believers when his Jewish brethren from Jerusalem came for a visit.
Also, there will be no... rapture of the Church prior to the time of great tribulation our Lord Jesus forewarned us about. There is no written Scripture of that sort anywhere in all of God's Word. There are only minds twisted by doctrines of men that say different. Christ's Church will suffer the great tribulation, and those who remain faithful will be saved when our Lord Jesus returns to end that event, and establishes His Kingdom upon this earth for His Millennium reign over ALL nations on the earth. Believing Israelites and Gentiles as His Church will both... together... inherit that Kingdom on earth as written. The wicked will be in a place of separation outside the holy city on earth during His Millennium reign (Rev.22:14-15; Rev.20).
About the "Church Ages" theory from Darby's Dispensationalism:
Dispensationalism tries to take the seven Messages our Lord Jesus gave through John to the seven Churches in Asia of Revelation 2 and 3, and turn them into literal eras or periods of times. That is a falsehood.
Instead, those seven Messages are about recognizing the differences between Church types all the way to the end of this world with our Lord Jesus 2nd coming. Five of the seven Churches our Lord Jesus rebuked because of falseness they had in them. Only two Churches Jesus had no rebuke for. All of them He warned of His coming, and the five He warned them to repent lest a punishment came upon them, and with one He even threatened remove its candlestick in the heavenly representation of the seven Churches.
The Dispensationalist Church Ages theory is designed to get the believer away... from understanding what those seven Messages to the seven Churches are really about. Those seven Messages serve as a method of how to recognize what TYPE of Church you are in. The two Churches of Smyrna and Philadelphia represent Christ's true Church type. The other five represent fallen Churches, because of what they held to and were practicing, or allowing to go on within them.
Dispensationalism tries to take the seven Messages our Lord Jesus gave through John to the seven Churches in Asia of Revelation 2 and 3, and turn them into literal eras or periods of times. That is a falsehood.
Instead, those seven Messages are about recognizing the differences between Church types all the way to the end of this world with our Lord Jesus 2nd coming. Five of the seven Churches our Lord Jesus rebuked because of falseness they had in them. Only two Churches Jesus had no rebuke for. All of them He warned of His coming, and the five He warned them to repent lest a punishment came upon them, and with one He even threatened remove its candlestick in the heavenly representation of the seven Churches.
The Dispensationalist Church Ages theory is designed to get the believer away... from understanding what those seven Messages to the seven Churches are really about. Those seven Messages serve as a method of how to recognize what TYPE of Church you are in. The two Churches of Smyrna and Philadelphia represent Christ's true Church type. The other five represent fallen Churches, because of what they held to and were practicing, or allowing to go on within them.
So the belief that some are saying is that the disciples were preaching to trust in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ for forgiveness of sins when they didn't even know or understand any of it? Please show me where they taught the death, burial and resurrection for forgiveness of sins.
Someone answer, what did the disciples preach?
Someone answer, what did the disciples preach?
There is no difference in the kingdom of God and the kingdom of heaven. Matthew uses the kingdom of heaven, the other gospels use the kingdom of God. This brings in the misunderstanding that people will be in heaven for eternity which is not true. Humans were created to dwell on the earth which we will after the final judgment and the new heaven and earth comes. Rev 21:1-5 tells us we will be on the earth not in heaven.
Matthew 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Mark 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
Matthew 10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Luke 9:60 ...go thou and preach the kingdom of God.
Matthew 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Mark 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
Matthew 10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Luke 9:60 ...go thou and preach the kingdom of God.