The Lie of Parental Forgiveness: Rebuilding the Veil Jesus Broke

[PeterJens]

Spiritual theory

How do you know you are in sin? The law? No because you are not under the law. Your conscience? Only if it is working.
The perfect spirit within you? Only if you have one.

How can another brother or sister confront you on anything? They cannot because that would be condemnation.

So where is discipline or agreement in the church? Only in positive singing of hymns and listening to how to be successful in life sermons. So would any human have a problem joining a church like this? No. Because it is only a self congratulation society saying you must just claim success that is rightfully yours.

And if caught in sin, what is their response? Nothing, because they are under grace so nothing has to be done to set things right, even apologising. If you apologise that means you were wrong, which is admiting self condemnation and putting your under law and not grace.

 

[phil36]

Interesting article...

Joseph Prince: Unmerited Favor - Christian Research Institute

Thanks for link. It just shows the errors this man has been teaching since his so called personal revelation from god in 1997. rince's follies and errors are well documented. It is a great sadness that anyone would fall for his error. But many did and many still do. We can only pray.

 

[phil36]

In the same article we see why the hyper grace/exagerated grace movement is so dangerous:

Prince’s teaching on the Law is essentially a variety of antinomianism. It is the idea that “though the moral law can and does lead one to repentance, it has no relevance to the life of the repentant believer afterward.”21
Now Prince rejects the charge of antinomianism, saying, “I have been accused of being…an antinomian (someone who is against the law of Moses). The truth is that I have the highest regard for the law” (emphasis in original).22 The problem, however, is that antinomianism is more than being “against the law of Moses.” The Law’s purpose is threefold: it restrains sin and promotes righteousness in society, it leads people to the conviction of sin and tutors them to Christ, and it serves as an ethical rule of life for believers.23 It is, therefore, the rejection of the third use of the law that makes Prince guilty of antinomianism.

 

[PeterJens]

In the same article we see why the hyper grace/exagerated grace movement is so dangerous:

What I find interesting is the conclusions it came to are exactly the same as many here have done without going to such sources. It is interesting how Grace7x77 denies much of his mystical gnostic spirit ideas, but it is probably more prevalent in christian thought than we realise.

Until you start balancing what is sinful behaviour, and what is walking with the Lord do you begin to ask, how do I walk in love? I know it is hard because it asks some very emotional questions about who am I and how do I identify with my neighbour, let alone care for him and finally love him like I love myself.

 

[FreeNChrist]

In the same article we see why the hyper grace/exagerated grace movement is so dangerous:

Law and grace are opposed to each other at every point, it is impossible for them to co-exist, either as the ground of acceptance before God or as the rule of life.

 

[Grace777x70]

A gentile Christian could never have read the 10 commandments nor even knew they existed..nor ever read them in their life on order to live the Christian life..


Jesus is the fulfillment of all the law and prophets. We fulfill all the requirement of the law by being in Christ.

The law had 4 purposes.

1) To reveal our sinful state - Romans 3:20

2) To inflame sin - Rom 7:8

3) To minister death - Rom 7:10-11

4) To lead us to Jesus - Galatians 3:24

1 Timothy 1:8-9 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully,
[SUP]9 [/SUP] realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, ..

We who believe in Jesus are righteous. The law is not for us Christians.

2 Corinthians 5:21 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

Why do you want to commit spiritual adultery by going to the law? Depending on keeping any of the law is in reality committing spiritual adultery on your new husband - Christ your Lord. Romans 7:1-6

 

[KennethC]

Why would you say something that is basically a lie to get a reaction?



So...you expect honesty in response to your dishonesty? OK. I am sure there is a fault in there.



..

This right here is the basic response from those who are dishonest, instead of answer and admit they deny and deflect just as you just did.

I had a issue with a pack of OSAS wolves when I first joined this site, as they did exactly what you are doing only in packs though. When one would say something wrong then deny they said it when called out, they and 2 to 3 others would all of a sudden start attacking the person who caught them in their lie and deny he said what he did.

This is the trait of dishonesty and of a person who does not want to face and deal with their own wrong doings !!!

You can not grow in the faith by ignoring the wrongs !!!!

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Law and grace are opposed to each other at every point, it is impossible for them to co-exist, either as the ground of acceptance before God or as the rule of life.

Not at all. The righteous deeds of the law are done by those who walk in grace through faith.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Thanks for link. It just shows the errors this man has been teaching since his so called personal revelation from god in 1997. rince's follies and errors are well documented. It is a great sadness that anyone would fall for his error. But many did and many still do. We can only pray.

And witness to the truth. And be aware that GOD sends out 'his' messengers to gather the tares.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Not at all. The righteous deeds of the law are done by those who walk in grace through faith.

Hmmmm. What is the, “righteous deeds of the Law”? Chapter and verse please.

 

[Grace777x70]

Revelation 19:8 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] It was given to her to clothe herself in fine linen, bright and clean; for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.

the word "acts" is not in the original greek..they are added in by the translators..

This is righteous the same word in Rev 1 19:8 for the "reguirement " of the law in Rom 8:4


Basically the ..the requirement/righteousness in Rev 19:8 was to have the fine linen of righteousness and we know Who gives us that..

Hmmmm. What is the, “righteous deeds of the Law”? Chapter and verse please.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Hmmmm. What is the, “righteous deeds of the Law”? Chapter and verse please.

Righteous deeds/Righteousness
G1345 δικαίωμα dikaioma (dik-ai'-o-mah) n.
1. an equitable deed

And it has been granted to her that she be dressed in bright, clean fine linen (for the fine linen is the righteous deeds of the saints). Revelation 19:8​

This word is the Greek word for righteous with a ma suffix, which means effect. So in essence it means righteous effect. This is the same word used in Romans 8:4.

That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Romans 8:4​

or

That the righteous effect of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Romans 8:4​

Since the law demands righteous deeds, doing the law would produce righteous effects, or righteous deeds. Now we know that the law works wrath to those in the flesh, but to those who walk in the spirit the righteous effect, or righteous deeds, required by the law are fulfilled in those who walk according to the spirit.

 

[PeterJens]

Law and grace are opposed to each other at every point, it is impossible for them to co-exist, either as the ground of acceptance before God or as the rule of life.

Jesus forgave people their sins in His ministry. Jesus did not overthrow the law but rather reinforced it by saying we should love each other as He loved us. He said we needed to love our enemies. Both these ideas or concepts are immeasurably harder than the law. And we are empowered by love, by His word and his mercy to walk this way, as slaves of righteousness and not sin.

So it appears grace empowers us to be righteous, or at least those who follow Jesus. Maybe you should try it one day?

 

[phil36]

Revelation 19:8 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] It was given to her to clothe herself in fine linen, bright and clean; for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.

the word "acts" is not in the original greek..they are added in by the translators..

This is righteous the same word in Rev 1 19:8 for the "reguirement " of the law in Rom 8:4


Basically the ..the requirement/righteousness in Rev 19:8 was to have the fine linen of righteousness and we know Who gives us that..

Mmmm thats interesting translation of the Greek? Becuase what you are saying is not what the Greek is. Stick to your translation grace777x70, it will serve you better (act's/deed's) would be very correct to use.

 

[Grace777x70]

Transliteration: dikaióma
Phonetic Spelling: (dik-ah'-yo-mah)
Short Definition: a thing pronounced to be just

Where is the greek word for "act or deeds" in the text?

 

[phil36]

Yes I know it is Strongs 1345, anyone can look it up and also the parse.

I wholeheartedly agree with the SHORT definition you have provided but why did you not show the full definition are you trying to be deceptive????:

Definition: a thing pronounced (by God) to be righteous (just, the right); or the restoration of a criminal, a fresh chance given him; a righteous deed, an instance of perfect righteousness.

[1345 (dikaíōma) is "not merely divine decisions, but righteous actsgenerally" (WS). The emphasis here is on the results that go with having God's approval (righteousness).]

 

[Grace777x70]

Here is Thayer's definition..I found the "act" part...in the last meaning but it still points to our Lord Jesus..He is still our rightoussness... thank God!

a. “what has been established and ordained by law, an ordinance”: universally, of an appointment of God having the force of law

“a judicial decision, sentence”; “of God” — either the favorable judgment by which he acquits men and declares them acceptable to him

“a righteous act or deed”: Revelation 19:8 , the righteous act of one (Christ) in his giving himself up to death, opposed to the first sin of Adam, Romans 5:18

Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Righteous deeds/Righteousness
G1345 δικαίωμα dikaioma (dik-ai'-o-mah) n.
1. an equitable deed

And it has been granted to her that she be dressed in bright, clean fine linen (for the fine linen is the righteous deeds of the saints). Revelation 19:8​

This word is the Greek word for righteous with a ma suffix, which means effect. So in essence it means righteous effect. This is the same word used in Romans 8:4.

That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Romans 8:4​

or

That the righteous effect of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Romans 8:4​

Since the law demands righteous deeds, doing the law would produce righteous effects, or righteous deeds. Now we know that the law works wrath to those in the flesh, but to those who walk in the spirit the righteous effect, or righteous deeds, required by the law are fulfilled in those who walk according to the spirit.

Yes. The the righteous "requirement" of the Law is fulfilled in we who walk according to the Spirit.

 

[phil36]

Here is Thayer's definition..I found the "act" part...in the last meaning but it still points to our Lord Jesus..He is still our rightoussness... thank God!

a. “what has been established and ordained by law, an ordinance”: universally, of an appointment of God having the force of law

“a judicial decision, sentence”; “of God” — either the favorable judgment by which he acquits men and declares them acceptable to him

“a righteous act or deed”: Revelation 19:8 , the righteous act of one (Christ) in his giving himself up to death, opposed to the first sin of Adam, Romans 5:18

Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament.

Yep Christ is our righteousness no one is saying he is not.. What we do not like is your re - interpriting scripture to fit your own theology..Well I know its not yours..your getting it eslwhere..but you are teaching the error here.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Jesus forgave people their sins in His ministry. Jesus did not overthrow the law but rather reinforced it by saying we should love each other as He loved us. He said we needed to love our enemies. Both these ideas or concepts are immeasurably harder than the law. And we are empowered by love, by His word and his mercy to walk this way, as slaves of righteousness and not sin.

So it appears grace empowers us to be righteous, or at least those who follow Jesus. Maybe you should try it one day?

Good. Just remember that Grace is not some benefit or commodity, separate or detached from the Being and activity of the indwelling Christ.