The neo-Gnostic spirit of New.Modern.Hyper Grace

[KennethC]

If we were capable of doing that on our own, the law would never have been given to show us we couldn't keep it, the old sacrifice system would never have been instituted, and Jesus would not have come to die. We would simply have been given the ability to live perfectly right from the start.

And we still don't have that ability. I see your sinning on this forum almost every day, and you see mine. I honestly don't think God allowed Jesus to go through a lifetime of living among us, then to be brutally murdered by us just because it was, perhaps, a slow, boring period in Heaven, and they needed something to keep them entertained.

No, you may like to think you are continuing to do the work that only Jesus could do... and did... but you are really only satisfying your own need to believe you don't really need Jesus anymore, now that He gave you that first initial push on your bicycle of self-sufficiency 2,000 years ago.

There you go as you identified the problem right here, those who doubt or call works done in Christ as self-effort still think we are on our own.

That is a faulty understanding as this is one of the main reasons the Holy Spirit was sent to us, to strengthen us and guide us into that obedience to Christ. We don't do it on our own !!!

Yes believers still sin but the difference is we don't live in habitual deliberate sinning...........

Who says work only Jesus could do, that is what other men in false teaching tell you, not what the Word of God says. Jesus said believers in Him will do the works He did and even greater works then He did !!!....John 14:12

Apostle Paul says, "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" not that it is impossible so why try !!!

 

[Mitspa]

He thinks everything after John died was the RCC.

If the Catholics claim he was catholic and he clearly promoted and taught their heresy...why would it be A issue to call the man what he himself claim to be a part if. He himself used the term Catholic church and promoted it as that.

 

[KennethC]

Clearly the RCC and the pope disagree with you and claim this man founded the Rcc and their doctrines of heresy.... its like saying they was no Nazis until they took power...in the 1930s

Like I said they claim Apostle Peter was the first Pope of the church to, does not make it truth !!!

But I get it you want to pick and choose what you take as truth or false from a bunch of liars.................

 

[KennethC]

If the Catholics claim he was catholic and he clearly promoted and taught their heresy...why would it be A issue to call the man what he himself claim to be a part if. He himself used the term Catholic church and promoted it as that.

Because you are wrong Mitspa, he did not use the term Catholic church, he used the term catholic (lower case c) which all it means is anybody no matter where they are from can become a believer in Christ.

In his day the term catholic was not used or treated in the denominational term we know of today !!!

Your Protestant teachings have lied to you about the truth of catholic really means and how it was first used.

 

[JGIG]

Be careful, you maybe labeled an anti-grace advocate for this statement in red above.

And this statement.

Not at all. Those who preach the Gospel of Grace will tell you the same things. Those are normal, healthy, responses in our relationship with God in Christ. Grace teaches us, however, that our relationship with God in Christ is NOT dependent on us doing those things, however, or that God will cut us off.

We are in Christ and remain there by birth (spiritual re-birth), not by behavior.

-JGIG

 

[KennethC]

He thinks everything after John died was the RCC.

This is what happens when you follow a false history teaching from the likes of the RCC or Protestant churches who's hatred for the Catholic church has blinded them to the truth.

Apostle Peter was never part of the Catholic church, but they claim he was and even place him as the 1st Pope. The church was not formed tell the 4th century, anything before that is not the Catholic church no matter what they say !!!

 

[Willie-T]

You speak for yourself, not me.

This is what I was waiting for you to do, claim that you do not sin. I knew it was just a matter of time.

 

[KennethC]

Not at all. Those who preach the Gospel of Grace will tell you the same things. Those are normal, healthy, responses in our relationship with God in Christ. Grace teaches us, however, that our relationship with God in Christ is NOT dependent on us doing those things, however, or that God will cut us off.

We are in Christ and remain there by birth (spiritual re-birth), not by behavior.

-JGIG

We remain abiding in Christ by faith not by being born again or behavior.........

Those two are products of a true saving faith in Christ and salvation/eternal life only exists when one abides in Christ, but when a person no longer abides in Christ that salvation is no longer there.

This is the problem with those who deny a believer can walk away and not end up with salvation, they put the focus on the works, behavior, rebirth, and such that are only things done as a result of a true faith in Christ.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

This is what I was waiting for you to do, claim that you do not sin. I knew it was just a matter of time.

Your waiting was in vain. I do sin. That doesn't mean that I don't strive to abide in Christ.

 

[Willie-T]

There you go as you identified the problem right here, those who doubt or call works done in Christ as self-effort still think we are on our own.

That is a faulty understanding as this is one of the main reasons the Holy Spirit was sent to us, to strengthen us and guide us into that obedience to Christ. We don't do it on our own !!!

Yes believers still sin but the difference is we don't live in habitual deliberate sinning...........

Who says work only Jesus could do, that is what other men in false teaching tell you, not what the Word of God says. Jesus said believers in Him will do the works He did and even greater works then He did !!!....John 14:12

Apostle Paul says, "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" not that it is impossible so why try !!!

And you obviously think you can save yourself... or, at least KEEP YOURSELF SAVED, continuing what Jesus only simply began and left for us to complete?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

This is what happens when you follow a false history teaching from the likes of the RCC or Protestant churches who's hatred for the Catholic church has blinded them to the truth.

Apostle Peter was never part of the Catholic church, but they claim he was and even place him as the 1st Pope. The church was not formed tell the 4th century, anything before that is not the Catholic church no matter what they say !!!

What I find ironic is that he's railing against the man who ardently fought against the gnostic and other heresies that eventually took over the church under Augustine and made the RCC what it is today.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Not at all. Those who preach the Gospel of Grace will tell you the same things. Those are normal, healthy, responses in our relationship with God in Christ. Grace teaches us, however, that our relationship with God in Christ is NOT dependent on us doing those things, however, or that God will cut us off.

We are in Christ and remain there by birth (spiritual re-birth), not by behavior.
-JGIG

Our relationship is not dependent upon our doing things, but doing the wrong things will definitely affect the relationship in a detrimental way. Big difference.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

If the Catholics claim he was catholic and he clearly promoted and taught their heresy...why would it be A issue to call the man what he himself claim to be a part if. He himself used the term Catholic church and promoted it as that.

The RCC claims Peter was catholic.

 

[KennethC]

And you obviously think you can save yourself... or, at least KEEP YOURSELF SAVED, continuing what Jesus only simply began and left for us to complete?

I gave you clear scripture that says we will do the same works as Christ and even more works then He did, or as He said greater works.

Yet you come back with an opinionated response, not a biblically supported answer.....

The doctrine you have been lead to follow takes us, free will, and the ability to choose out of the equation. The Word of God does not take those away from us, and again you are focusing on the works aspect.

As long as the focus is on the works and not the faith in Christ then debating rather a person has eternal life or not will always be useless with those people. Eternal life only exists to those who abide in Christ !!!

The bible gives a clear break down on what a believer who abides in Christ looks like, and nowhere does it say or show they can be lazy, disobedient, or walk contradictory to the fruit of the Holy Spirit !!!


God's grace teaches to walk in proper behavior !!!

 

[Willie-T]

I gave you clear scripture that says we will do the same works as Christ and even more works then He did, or as He said greater works.

Yet you come back with an opinionated response, not a biblically supported answer.....

The doctrine you have been lead to follow takes us, free will, and the ability to choose out of the equation. The Word of God does not take those away from us, and again you are focusing on the works aspect.

As long as the focus is on the works and not the faith in Christ then debating rather a person has eternal life or not will always be useless with those people. Eternal life only exists to those who abide in Christ !!!

The bible gives a clear break down on what a believer who abides in Christ looks like, and nowhere does it say or show they can be lazy, disobedient, or walk contradictory to the fruit of the Holy Spirit !!!


God's grace teaches to walk in proper behavior !!!

God's grace accounts for the solid and well-proven fact that we do not "walk in proper behavior." We only walk in the "covering" of His walk being perfect in our stead. (or in our proxy, if you will)

 

[KennethC]

God's grace accounts for the solid and well-proven fact that we do not "walk in proper behavior." We only walk in the "covering" of His walk being perfect in our stead. (or in our proxy, if you will)

No the law is what points this out to us, our sinful behavior, not God's grace.

God's grace shows us and helps us how to walk properly in the faith, it is not something that is just magically imputed on us but we still continue to walk in the sinful behaviors we did before.

He leads us to clean the inside and the outside as well, and the Apostle Paul shows this in 2 Corinthians 7:1.

The Lord when He imputes His righteousness on us it changes our behavior and actions to mirror His !!!

 

[Willie-T]

No the law is what points this out to us, our sinful behavior, not God's grace.God's grace shows us and helps us how to walk properly in the faith, it is not something that is just magically imputed on us but we still continue to walk in the sinful behaviors we did before.

He leads us to clean the inside and the outside as well, and the Apostle Paul shows this in 2 Corinthians 7:1.

The Lord when He imputes His righteousness on us it changes our behavior and actions to mirror His !!!

Please at least TRY TO read and address what I actually wrote.

I said God's grace ACCOUNTS for our inability to walk properly. I did not say it "points it out."

 

[Grace777x70]

Titus 2:11-12 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men,
[SUP]12 [/SUP] instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age,

 

[Grace777x70]

I love John 13:1-10 and how we need our daily walk cleansed by the washing of the water of the word. I watched a talk on this subject and it had an illustration of us being like a gold bar which had mud on it helped me to understand some things.

The gold bar still had it’s real value in it even though it had mud on it. Gold in the Bible speaks of God’s righteousness which of course we know He gave to us – we became the righteousness of God in Christ.

It goes on to show how the washing of the water of God’s word about righteousness and grace cleans off the mud from the gold bar which represents us.

2 Corinthians 7:1 always confused me a bit when it says to cleanse ourselves from all defilement of flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. How can we cleanse defilement in our spirit when we are righteous because of our new creation in Christ?

I see this verse as us believing who we are in Christ now as the verse before in 2 Corinthians 6:18 says we are sons to our Father. The verses before verse 18 talk about being “separate” from the world – like what partnership does righteousness have with lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness..etc. ( verses 14-16 )

Cleansing the defilement from our flesh is obvious but of the spirit confused me. I think this verse is referring to how we view ourselves when defilement comes as when we viewed the mud on the gold bar. This defilement distorts our view mentally of our true selves ( the word spirit has been used in the N. T. to convey our thinking or mindset ) which we are in Christ because we are His righteousness now.

When we believe ( through the washing of the word of righteousness or hearing the word of Christ ) – we view who we really are in Christ. In this “beholding” of ourselves in Christ as in a mirror – we “become” or manifest outwardly who we really are.

Perfecting holiness in the fear of God means to me = fulfilling or accomplishing ( meaning for perfecting in greek ) our “otherness ” ( which holy really means “other” ) or separateness outwardly in the fear of God. ( Fear of God to me is realizing the awesomeness of God in His goodness ).

 

[KennethC]

Please at least TRY TO read and address what I actually wrote.

I said God's grace ACCOUNTS for our inability to walk properly. I did not say it "points it out."

It does not account for it either as God's grace does not allow lewdness to continue.

Where sin abound Grace abounded much more, means that God's grace is stronger then sin and leads all who are under it to overcome their sinful ways. Not that it allows us to continue to do them because His grace will cover them !!!

The only way this accountability works in God's grace is for the times we slip up and confess and more forward in the Light, not those that continue to deliberately keep sinning.......