The neo-Gnostic spirit of New.Modern.Hyper Grace

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
Here is part A of Rob's " Biblical Defense of the Gospel of Grace " ( which was done a few years before Dr. brown came up with hyper-grace term..)

[video=vimeo;11804054]https://vimeo.com/11804054[/video]
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
Typical "Straw-man"......


I really do wish you guys would quit that generalization. Hardly anyone in our congregation has a car newer than 5 years old... most are ten or more. And I happen to drive an '88 while my wife drives a '99. Our preacher doesn't even make $40k a year. 80% of the people we concentrate on "drawing" to get the massive tithes you keep complaining about don't even live in houses... they are in shelters and under bridges.
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
8,345
2,157
113
Hi grace777x70,

We all know that the hyper grace/exagerated grace message has been around for quite a while lol, doen't make it less of an error
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
8,345
2,157
113
The fact remains, that its just a new twist on old errors...
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
692
113
Again, what must happen for blood to cleanse? It must be shed - in the Old Covenant, repeatedly. In the New Covenant ONE TIME.

If one says that there is a sin that must still be cleansed, one is saying that 1) they either need to offer an animal sacrifice, or 2) that Christ must come and shed His Blood again.

I know you know that neither of those are an option, and the letter to the Hebrews tells us why:

11 And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13 waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet. 14 For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified. (from Hebrews 10)

26 Such a high priest truly meets our need—one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens. 27 Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself. (from Hebrews 7)
Hebrews 10 is referring to the day of atonement in which Israel's sins were forgiven for the year. Forgiveness did not occur until the goat's blood was taken behind the veil and sprinkled on the mercy seat. Christ's death was once for all time, but forgiveness didn't occur until he took his blood into heaven to present to GOD. And there it is right now providing freedom and cleansing from sin. He doesn't have to die again because he lives forever as a high priest making reconciliation for the people with his own blood.

The idea that sins not yet committed were forgiven in the past is not biblical. However, a high priest currently abiding in the holy place making reconciliation for his people's sins in the here-and-now is very much biblical.
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
Here is the Part B.....Rob teaching on " Biblical Defense of the Gospel of grace "..everyone should listen for themselves and listen to the Holy Spirit within them...

[video=vimeo;11810822]https://vimeo.com/11810822[/video]
 
Last edited:
G

Gr8grace

Guest
From my experience with new.modern.hyper grace teaching, behavior only matters in this life. It has no bearing on eternal life. In other words, sin may cause one to experience bad things in this life, or die, but it can never jeopardize salvation.

So in essence, behavior doesn't matter. The same as the gnostics thought. But to say openly that behavior doesn't matter would not draw the tithing crowds and book buyers.
Because if our behavior jeopardized salvation we would have clear, no non-sense,unambiguous language that told us that. It is putting a believer who is a part of His body in the Lake of fire for all eternity. BIG, MAJOR,consequences. God, who is just and righteous would not leave His Children in some constant state of confusion pertaining to His salvation.

Eternal life is a gift.

His gifts are IRREVOCABLE.

If we could lose salvation our God, the Lord Jesus Christ who is JUST and RIGHTEOUS would PLAINLY tell us we could lose eternal life, lose salvation, His gift is revocable.

And He NEVER tells us this.

but the pharisees of old would tell us this.
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
8,345
2,157
113
I go for what is called perseverence of the Saints.... :) and I can still call hyper grace in error :)
 

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
4,225
99
48
From my experience with new.modern.hyper grace teaching, behavior only matters in this life. It has no bearing on eternal life. In other words, sin may cause one to experience bad things in this life, or die, but it can never jeopardize salvation.

So in essence, behavior doesn't matter. The same as the gnostics thought. But to say openly that behavior doesn't matter would not draw the tithing crowds and book buyers.
Do you think we receive eternal rewards for our behavior in this life?
 

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
4,225
99
48
Because if our behavior jeopardized salvation we would have clear, no non-sense,unambiguous language that told us that. It is putting a believer who is a part of His body in the Lake of fire for all eternity. BIG, MAJOR,consequences. God, who is just and righteous would not leave His Children in some constant state of confusion pertaining to His salvation.

Eternal life is a gift.

His gifts are IRREVOCABLE.

If we could lose salvation our God, the Lord Jesus Christ who is JUST and RIGHTEOUS would PLAINLY tell us we could lose eternal life, lose salvation, His gift is revocable.

And He NEVER tells us this.

but the pharisees of old would tell us this.
If His gift is irrevocable, does that mean we can't throw it away?

Also, where in the bible does it specifically say if you become apostate you'll keep your salvation/eternal life? If it where true, why didn't He tell us.
 
G

Gr8grace

Guest
I go for what is called perseverence of the Saints.... :) and I can still call hyper grace in error :)
most perseverance of the saints teaching are identical to loss of salvation teachings.

One says you really weren't saved because you didn't persevere in your "fruit" or "good works"

And the other just says you lost your salvation because you didn't persevere in your "fruit" or "good works"

Its just a matter of semantics, in reality they both say the exact same thing.

Eternal security is the preservation of the saints..............all are going no matter what.
 
Last edited:
G

Gr8grace

Guest
If His gift is irrevocable, does that mean we can't throw it away?

Also, where in the bible does it specifically say if you become apostate you'll keep your salvation/eternal life? If it where true, why didn't He tell us.
What does irrevocable mean? He told us in IRREVOCABLE.
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
8,345
2,157
113
most perseverance of the saints teaching are identical to loss of salvation teachings.

One says you really weren't saved because you didn't persevere in your "fruit" or "good works"

And the other just says you lost your salvation because you didn't persevere in your "fruit" or "good works"

Its just a matter of semantics, in reality they both say the exact same thing.

Eternal security is the preservation of the saints..............all or going no matter what.

Hi Gr9grce

I think you will find your information erroneous, you do know Romans 8:30? :) you are just publically showing your ignorance. Thats ok though.
 

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
4,225
99
48
A more interesting question, I've found is,
"If so, then what do you think they will be?"
Lol, I love your thoughtfulness. IDK for sure, but if so maybe some sort of authority/rank/responsibility or intergalactic travel. Certainly not 70 virgins.
 
G

Gr8grace

Guest
Hi Gr9grce

I think you will find your information erroneous, you do know Romans 8:30? :) you are just publically showing your ignorance. Thats ok though.
predestination is for believers ONLY. predestination is not for hell or heaven............its for being conformed to His image, adoption, heirs. ALL believers are predestined to a pre-designed plan from God after belief and salvation.

Not to heaven or hell. We make the willful choice to believe or not.
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
8,345
2,157
113
predestination is for believers ONLY. predestination is not for hell or heaven............its for being conformed to His image, adoption, heirs. ALL believers are predestined to a pre-designed plan from God after belief and salvation.

Not to heaven or hell. We make the willful choice to believe or not.
Oh I think its very relevent to ones eternality in Christ...but its ok that you do not understand that ;)
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
I think Mickey Mouse will go to heaven...but it's ok that you don't understand that...:D..

just havin' some fun with ya'...
 

JGIG

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2013
2,295
167
63
To this I can agree and disagree. If we deny him, he will deny us. If we are simply being unfaithful, he will remain faithful to us.
If 2 Timothy 2 is meaning what you think it means, then how did Peter end up being an apostle?

We endure because at the New Birth, Christ is IN us - that is why when we are unfaithful, He is faithful - He cannot deny Himself - we are ONE with Him. If we died with Him . . . then we will also live with Him . . . the New Birth - New Life - New Creation.

20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!” (from Galatians 2)

Again, we always need to remember Who Jesus is, what He came to do, what that actually accomplished, and who we are in Him. Through that lens interpreting seemingly contradictory passages is a lot easier.

-JGIG