Quote:
Originally Posted by
greatkraw
The Pretribulation Rapture
- Christ comes for His own (John 14:3; 1 Thessalonians 4:17)
- He comes in the air (1 Thessalonians 4:17)
- He comes to claim his bride (John 14:3; 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17)
- Only His own see Him (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18)
- Saved are delivered from wrath (1 Thessalonians 1:10, 5:9; Revelation 3:10)
The Glorious Appearing
- Christ comes with His own (Jude 14-15; Revelation 1:7; 19:14)
- He comes to the earth (Zechariah 14:4-5; Acts 1:11)
- He returns with His bride (Revelation 19:6-1 4)
- Every eye shall see Him (Revelation 1:7; Matthew 24:30)
- Unsaved experience the wrath of God (Nahurn 1:2; Revelation 6-18)
The most obvious difference is that at the Rapture believers will be caught up in the louds to meet the Lord in the air. In other words, at the Rapture, Jesus receives us to Himself, While at His Glorious Appearing Jesus returns to earth with us.
The Bible tells us this event will come unexpectedly, like a thief in the night, at a time when people are saying Peace arid Safety’. (1 Thessalonians 5.1-3).
Jesus said: Therefore you also be ready for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect (Matthew 24.44)
It will be at a time when people are going about their everyday business, doing normal things like eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building. (Luke 17.26-37).
The only way this event can be unexpected is if it comes before the final 7-year tribulation. By the end of this time it will be obvious to anyone who knows the Bible that Jesus is coming back to the earth as the armies gather at Armageddon, 3 ½ years after the Antichrist and the False Prophet set up the Mark of the Beast system. No one will be saying ‘Peace and Safety’ after the horrors of the great tribulation. Life will not be going on as normal. And you should even be able to work out the date — 42 months after the setting up of the image to the beast in Revelation 13.
One of the strongest arguments for the Pre-Tribulation Rapture position is the Scriptural doctrine of inminency. Repeatedly the Bible tells us that this event could happen at any moment. No event must precede it. 
Here I take every verse provided in the above post and post them in full. This way the reader can take a look at each verse and clearly see that for one to believe that there is a rapture he must compromise God's word. My next post I will make a list of verses that the rapturist will have to avoid to make his doctrine sound, thus making the word of God void.
John 14:3
3
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
Says he will come again and yes he will after the workings of satan. No rapture here.
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
He's bringing with Him those that already have died in Christ.
15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
At the 7th trump Christ comes. Satan comes at the 6th trump, the 6th seal, and the 6th vile. Did you not read the seven seals Christ gave us in Matt 24?
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Yes we will be caught up in the spirit with the cloud of angels. Interpret however you wish but still does not say this will happen before the rapture.
No rapture here.
1 Thessalonians 1:10
10And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
Says Christ will deliver us from His wrath that He will bring at the end of the great tribulation, I didn't see anything about a rapture. No rapture here.
1 Thessalonians 5:9
9For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
The Bible never compares us not suffering His wrath with not going through the tribulation. If you read the whole of 1 Thes 5 you can easily see it is satan that comes first. No rapture here.
Revelation 3:10
10Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will
keep thee from the
hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth
You think flying us away in a time of trouble is how God operates?
Compare:
John 17:15
I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest
keep them from the evil.
I Cor 10:13
13There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
No rapture here.
Jude 14-15
14And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
15To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
Oh I see what's going on here, any time Enoch is mentioned you go on auto-rapture mode. Why wouldn't the Bible tell us we would go like Enoch before the great tribulation. Because it's not God's plan.
No rapture here.
Revelation 1:7
7Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
No mention of a pre-tribulation gathering here.
No rapture here.
Revelation 19:6-14
6And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
7Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
8And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
9And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
10And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
11And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
How and the heck can you get a pre-tribulation gathering out of this? Notice the author stops right at verse 14 because he will run into problems with verse 15:
15And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
How can he explain 15 when it speaks of Christ's wrath at His coming? No rapture here.
Zechariah 14:4-5
4And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
Wow, says just the opposite. No rapture here.
Acts 1:11
11Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
This is talks of dying and then going up to heaven. Even if you want to believe it concerns our gathering together unto him in the endtimes it doesn't say it will be happening before the tribulation. Revelations speaks of the new heaven and new earth and the new Jerusalem coming down to us. No rapture here.
Matthew 24:30
30
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Funny that the author leaves out the prior verses and tries to make a pre-tribulation gathering out of this. Typical rapture propaganda. Read the rest of the verses, it's not hard. No rapture here.
Nahum 1:2
2God is jealous, and the LORD revengeth; the LORD revengeth, and is furious; the LORD will take vengeance on his adversaries, and he reserveth wrath for his enemies.
Saying that you must be raptured to escape God's wrath is one heck of a stretch here. No rapture here.
1 Thessalonians 5.1-3
1But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
Who is the theif? Satan. When is the anti-christ's reign? In the night. Why would the day come as night? It's because Christ is coming to destroy satan's false kingdom.
3For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
Satan is the one who comes to make a false peace, Christ comes to make war.
Once again lets look at the rest of the verses.
4But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
5Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
6Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
7For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
8But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
Why would we need the amour of God if we were to be raptured away?
9For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
Amen. Doesn't say pre-tribulation gathering, rather Christ comes unexpectedly. No rapture here.
Matthew 24.44
44
Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
Another one verser. Read the whole chapter. No rapture here.
Luke 17.26-37
26
And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
27
They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
28
Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29
But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30
Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
31
In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.
32
Remember Lot's wife.
33
Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
34
I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
35
Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
36
Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
37
And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.
Notice the last verse it should read: 'Wheresoever the carcase is, thither will the vultures be gathered together'.
Maybe the author needs to read the story of Noah again. What was going on in the days of Noah? The fallen angels were here and so shall it be when Christ returns to destroy satans kingdom and all the fallen angels with him. No rapture here.
