The 1 John 1:9 Lie: More New.Modern.Hyper Grace blasphemy

[FreeNChrist]

un-fortunately,

for many in this 'new-age' they have been given yet another 'pass' in order to 'continue' on
in their 'past-behaviour'.....claiming non-conviction=not needing to repent, over-come,
they may continue as their old-present-always comfortable man-and do as they well please....

may God have mercy.....

Quite the opposite. We are saying the same thing as God, that you don't have to continue in your old behaviors. Because you have metamorphosed into something entirely new. And when you see yourself as you now are in Christ, then you will see why it is foolish to go back and wallow in the mud like the person you used to be.

 

[FreeNChrist]

This should clear the matter up for you:

παιδεύω

LOL. Nope.

 

[royalscot]

Yes walking by the Spirit, because the fruit of the Holy Spirit will not lead one to transgress against God's ways.

However there will be some that will continue to live by the flesh, and these are still held under the law and its condemnation !!!

now, take your religion stand ............................................ etc
what law, did you miss read acts 15. (gentiles)
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.1Ephesians 2: By Grace Through Faith

what fruit will save you. and do you still need air.

 

[oldthennew]

my walk, my race, my over-coming, my dependence, all of these things bring me into the arms
of my Saviour on a daily basis, else I would still reside in my old-skin and behave accordingly...
I would never have any real peace or comfort in my life if I believed that my Saviour wasn't
in His appointed place, doing what He does best, and that is, reconciling me to my Creator,
that Giver and Taker of all we possess...

I know what I am, and I know what is expected of me, and I know my Creator's job,
I accept His precious, Holy gift and I run with it.......

 

[peacefulbeliever]

That isn't being posited. lol I even said, "Nothing wrong with being open with the Lord about your struggles."

And what is the BIG difference between the above and saying "oops, Father, sorry" in acknowledging when we have done something contrary to the will of God?

 

[JGIG]

Only Christ's work on earth is finished. It is written that he intercedes for us now with his blood. That has never stopped from the moment he entered heaven with his blood to present it to GOD the father. He is seated at GOD's right hand, which is the reality of the mercyseat in the temple, that no priest could sit on. That shadow pointed to the true throne of forgiveness in heaven. You are ignoring many scriptures that point to this reality that Christ is operating now as our high priest cleansing the sins of his people.

Please provide for us the Scripture that says that Christ is continually presenting (offering) His Blood to the Father.

We are not ignoring the many Scriptures that point to the reality of Christ operating as our Perfect, Permanent High Priest. What you're ignoring is that His Priesthood is DIFFERENT THAN AND SUPERIOR to the priests in the Old Covenant:

18 The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless 19 (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.
20 And it was not without an oath! Others became priests without any oath, 21 but he became a priest with an oath when God said to him:
“The Lord has sworn
and will not change his mind:
‘You are a priest forever.’”

22 Because of this oath, Jesus has become the guarantor of a better covenant.

23 Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; 24 but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood.

25 Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to Godthrough him, because he always lives to intercede for them.

26 Such a high priest truly meets our need—one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens. 27 Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people.

He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself. (from Heb. 7)​

It can not get much clearer than that. What you choose to do with it, well, that's between you and God.

-JGIG

 

[FreeNChrist]

my walk, my race, my over-coming, my dependence, all of these things bring me into the arms
of my Saviour on a daily basis, else I would still reside in my old-skin and behave accordingly...
I would never have any real peace or comfort in my life if I believed that my Saviour wasn't
in His appointed place, doing what He does best, and that is, reconciling me to my Creator,
that Giver and Taker of all we possess...

I know what I am, and I know what is expected of me, and I know my Creator's job,
I accept His precious, Holy gift and I run with it.......

A lot of "I's" and "my's" in that.

 

[phil36]

LOL. Nope.

Learn what it means and you will understand

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Quite the opposite. We are saying the same thing as God, that you don't have to continue in your old behaviors. Because you have metamorphosed into something entirely new. And when you see yourself as you now are in Christ, then you will see why it is foolish to go back and wallow in the mud like the person you used to be.

Well, being totally honest here, I have not totally "morphed" into something entirely new. I still mess up - I still have to put off the old and put on the new - I am still renewing my mind! And when I do do those things that I truly do not want to do - I admit it, acknowledge it and let it go - no wallowing in the mud for me!

 

[KennethC]

Hebrews 12:6 Does God Scourge His Kids?

Everyone has a mental picture of God. Perhaps you think he is distant, aloof, angry, even terrifying. Possibly you envision him holding a whip in his hands…

For those whom the Lord loves he disciplines, and he scourges every son whom he receives. (Heb 12:6, NASB)

Yet your heavenly Father is not like this. How do I know? I’ve seen Jesus. Jesus is none of these things. Rather, he is loving, gracious, kind and desires to share his life with you. Jesus said he was about his Father’s business and that business is not the condemning business but the adoption business. God loves you and wants to spend eternity delighting in you.

So how does scourging fit into this picture? It doesn’t. It sticks out like a cobra in a kindergarten. It shouldn’t be there. Yet it is, in black and white in Hebrews 12. So does God scourge his kids or doesn’t he?

Anyone interested in the rest of the teaching...

Hebrews 12:6 Does God Scourge His Kids? – Escape to Reality

Problem is you see punishment in the same light as being condemnation, when they are not !!!

When your earthly parents punished you for doing wrong growing up, did they cast you out of the family ????

No they did it to correct you and get you to act properly, that is how the Lord works to, if we get out of hand he punishes us to correct us and get us back on the proper path.

Also there is a long time false rendering of scripture that says, "Spare the rod, spoil the child."

That however is not what Proverbs 13:24 actually says, it says the one who spares the rod hates his child. Also Proverbs 23:13 speaks on discipline to.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Learn what it means and you will understand

Oh....okay.

 

[Willie-T]

Ok, so you agree that Christians are convicted by the Holy Spirit? (even though I said I can't even pocket $5 today ...meaning it never gets that far).

I'm confused over this. I wrote all that I wrote, on the basis of thinking you didn't still pocket change.
But you objected to that, saying you meant otherwise... that I was wrong in how I took it.
So I went and found your OP where it seems to say that when you keep the money now, it eats on you.

But, here you are saying you actually meant what I originally assumed, that today you immediately give back the change. Yet, you seem to be calling that automatic desire to do right, "being convicted."

Do I have that about right?

All I can assume is that if you feel "convicted", it is not because you want to do right, but that you still desire to pocket the extra money, but God "argues" with you (convicts you), and you accept His will, going ahead and giving it back.

Am I missing something you are trying to convey?

To me, wanting to do right in the first place, and doing so, is NOT being convicted, but being reminded of your relationship, and responding appropriately. It seems the only time you could or should feel "convicted" is if your initial thinking is wrong.

 

[crossnote]

I'll happy to answer your question just as soon as you answer mine. (And I do have an answer regarding Heb. 12)

God says very clearly that in the New Covenant, this will be the case:

34 And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.” (from Jer. 31)
​

It's repeated here:

17 Then he adds:

“Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.”

18 And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary. (from Heb. 10)
​

And I'll actually add to my question.

If further forgiveness for sins is necessary for believers why is sacrifice for those sins no longer necessary?

And why would God/His Holy Spirit, remind you of sins He has told us He chooses to remember no more and have already been forgiven?

And if you say that sins committed after you believed still need to be confessed before they're forgiven because they are in the future, THINK for a moment:

EVERY SIN that you committed was in the future when Christ did the Work of the Cross, the Resurrection, the Ascension, and became the Perfect, Permanent High Priest Who SITS in the heavenly Temple at the Right Hand of God in a position of REST because His Work is DONE.

Your sins, my sins, everyone's sins for ALL TIME were dealt with by Christ already. There is no process of sin, ask forgiveness, rinse, and repeat for the believer. You were cleansed by the Blood of Christ for ONE reason, and that was so that you could be indwelt with New Life - sealed with the Holy Spirit, because God won't live in dirty places. Christ made you CLEAN.

If His cleansing, and the Righteousness and New Life of His Spirit that was gifted to you (which, and please please please get this - this is NOT Gnostic thought - the Righteousness and the New Life we receive is HIS, not ours, just cleaned up until our next sin - look it up) could be defiled, EVERY SIN, NO MATTER HOW GREAT OR HOW SMALL that you commit, would cause God's Spirit to leave you, making you spiritually DEAD. That's serious business, and the New Covenant Scriptures are clear that is not what happens when we sin.

"Little children, when you sin, confess your sins to receive forgiveness to restore fellowship . . . "

No, that's not what John says, he says this:

My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. (from 1 John 2)​

John follows up by telling us why that advocacy is in place:

2 He is the propitiation [the full satisfaction of God's justice] for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. 3 And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. (from 1 John 2)​

There it is! We have to keep His commandments! Also defined by John:

23 And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us. 24 Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us. (from 1 John 3)​

God's commandments after the Cross are only two: Believe in Christ and love one another. And Love is the First Fruit of the Spirit that He gives us and Who abides in us. And He cannot abide in us unless we are first cleansed by Him, and after He abides (comes to live) in us, He SEALS US UNTO THE DAY OF REDEMPTION (see Eph. 1).

Nowhere does New Covenant Scripture say that your behavior undoes any or all of that. Rather New Covenant Scriptures tell us over and over who we are in Christ (read through the Epistles and see how many times you see 'in Christ', 'through Christ', 'because of Christ', etc.), building us up in Him and then exhorting us to live/behave accordingly.

That is Grace - getting what we DON"T deserve - the Godhead maintaining our salvation because we can no more maintain it that we could attain it - it is by faith from first to last.

** Remember those questions above. I highlighted them in red for you =).

-JGIG

I don't do well with long posts but I'll attempt to answer your questions in red...

If further forgiveness for sins is necessary for believers why is sacrifice for those sins no longer necessary?

I think this has been answered by both the relational question (husband to wife) the barriers that go up when either one does not 'come clean'...the same hurts our relation to God when we don't come clean.

Secondly the context of 1Jn 1:9 demands it is us Christians who need to confess our sins regardless what theological sophistry we employ.

If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
(1Jn 1:6-10)

And why would God/His Holy Spirit, remind you of sins He has told us He chooses to remember no more and have already been forgiven

Again, it is part of the purging process. We have been rescued, now starts the cleaning and purging. It has nothing to do with our eternal security as regenerate believers.

 

[BenFTW]

And what is the BIG difference between the above and saying "oops, Father, sorry" in acknowledging when we have done something contrary to the will of God?

The religious spirit behind it, in the form of asking for forgiveness that Jesus already purchased by His sacrifice. One is an acknowledgement of something done wrong and the other is a pleading for forgiveness already granted. The difference is when that sin confession becomes religious by nature and becomes the grounds by which you are secure. It is finding comfort and assurance in something other than Jesus, Himself. That's all... and if that isn't your issue, awesome. Continue to be open with your heavenly Father.

 

[crossnote]

I'm going to have to bow out. This thread is literally moving much faster than I can type, so after I finish a paragraph or two I have two pages to try and catch up.
Besides I think I have said just about everything concerning my stance and from here it is just repeating myself.

 

[BenFTW]

A lot of "I's" and "my's" in that.

I'm about to make an image of Jesus on the cross with a baton in one of His hands. I wonder, would that be sacrilegious?

 

[KennethC]

now, take your religion stand ............................................ etc
what law, did you miss read acts 15. (gentiles)
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.1Ephesians 2: By Grace Through Faith

what fruit will save you. and do you still need air.

Ephesians 2 deals with the fact of God sending Jesus in the flesh to die for our sins, as what nobody did to deserve that being done for us.

It does not apply to the faith in Christ that puts us under God's grace for what He did for us !!!

Yes I read Acts 15 and that is applying to the written ordinances of the Mosaic law, it does not refer to the moral law of God. There is a difference between the two.........

1) Mosaic law.........Is a system of ordinances that no man can keep, and thus can not be justified by

2) Moral law...........What believers naturally walk in from love !!!

 

[royalscot]

And what is the BIG difference between the above and saying "oops, Father, sorry" in acknowledging when we have done something contrary to the will of God?

what is the will of god, if he took care of action, romans 8 for example is saying sin and death have been dealt with.

so no more worry. free etc.

if your already a son or daughter , would learning by your mistake come to mind, given logic of a human parent can only teach yes or no. believing in a spiritual parent, only proves your still looking it law. with a yes or no.


yet peter step out to go to see cornilious etc. acts 10. so did he do wrong by following what god told him.

he did in the law eyes.

28 And he said to them, "You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a Jew to associate with or to visit anyone of another nation, but God has shown me that I should not call any person common or unclean. Acts 10: Peter and Cornelius

 

[KennethC]

Where does it say actions of the believers is taken away, not the Word of God !!!


1 Thessalonians 5:18
give thanks in all circumstances, for this is God's will for you in Christ Jesus.


1 Thessalonians 4:3
It is God's will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality;


Hebrews 13:20-21
May the God of peace, who through the blood of the eternal covenant brought back from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great Shepherd of the sheep, equip you with everything good for doing His will, and may he work in us what is pleasing to him, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.


1 Peter 2:15
For it is God's will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish men.


Ephesians 5:15-20
Be very careful, then, how you live--not as unwise but as wise, making the most of every opportunity, because the days are evil. Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord's will is. Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit. Speak to one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs. Sing and make music in your heart to the Lord, always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.


Romans 12:2 - And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

 

[royalscot]

Ephesians 2 deals with the fact of God sending Jesus in the flesh to die for our sins, as what nobody did to deserve that being done for us.

It does not apply to the faith in Christ that puts us under God's grace for what He did for us !!!

Yes I read Acts 15 and that is applying to the written ordinances of the Mosaic law, it does not refer to the moral law of God. There is a difference between the two.........

1) Mosaic law.........Is a system of ordinances that no man can keep, and thus can not be justified by

2) Moral law...........What believers naturally walk in from love !!!

what about acts 15,
so you can read the bible, yet here you are tell me, moral law , walking in morral law did it save , no your trying to walk morral because you except gods grace. so context out. again.

still standing ,
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.