The 1 John 1:9 Lie: More New.Modern.Hyper Grace blasphemy

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crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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How long is the present the present, before it is the past??
It's one with God.

Please explain...

And have you forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons? "My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor be weary when reproved by him. For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives." It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. Besides this, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live? For they disciplined us for a short time as it seemed best to them, but he disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness. For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.
(Heb 12:5-11)
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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I guess one positive could be that your prayer life could be so much more fruitful, instead of wasting time on something the Lord already took care of.
I wonder how anyone could see praying to be aligned with the will of God as a waste of time.
 
K

KennethC

Guest
What does the Holy Spirit "convict" us of?


[video=youtube;cM-821HWRDo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cM-821HWRDo[/video]
Almost 7 minutes on this video and Prince doesn't even discuss the topic at the video is said to be discussing, he went of on a rambling of talking about other things instead of the conviction by the Holy Spirit.

He even really went off the deep end about mentioning crunching popcorn in the middle of church service, and then the different experiences people go through from the Holy Spirit, but nothing on the convicting !!!
 
Jan 7, 2015
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Thank you very much for explaining :)
No problem, and it is like Paul said concerning the mysteries, those things are hard to be uttered, and harder yet for others to understand if they are not yet mature, but still babes desiring milk.

Tracing the symbolic wording found in the book Revelation back to the OT is an important part of in piecing things together and understanding what the Lord is symbolizing there. But it is just something that cannot taught, revealed and understood by men unless the Lord reveals it to someone by His Spirit. Peace
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,887
29,274
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No problem, and it is like Paul said concerning the mysteries, those things are hard to be uttered, and harder yet for others to understand if they are not yet mature, but still babes desiring milk.

Tracing the symbolic wording found in the book Revelation back to the OT is an important part of in piecing things together and understanding what the Lord is symbolizing there. But it is just something that cannot taught, revealed and understood by men unless the Lord reveals it to someone by His Spirit. Peace
I shall chew on it :) Thanks again! :)
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
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Nothing in that shows He convicts at all. lol :p
I gave you three passages dealing with the HS convicting through believers, His law within and Scripture. I got no fair response.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Oppps..gave the wrong one out..thanks Kenneth..:)


[video=youtube;EcuyzQuqQd0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcuyzQuqQd0[/video]


Almost 7 minutes on this video and Prince doesn't even discuss the topic at the video is said to be discussing, he went of on a rambling of talking about other things instead of the conviction by the Holy Spirit.

He even really went off the deep end about mentioning crunching popcorn in the middle of church service, and then the different experiences people go through from the Holy Spirit, but nothing on the convicting !!!
 
Feb 21, 2012
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Guess David wasted his time confessing his sin when confronted by Nathan?
Oh, that's old testament, sorry, God's standard of morality must have changed since His Son died died our sins.
Yes, Godly principles are still good to live by even in this dispensation of grace! :)
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
And have you forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons? "My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor be weary when reproved by him. For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives." It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. Besides this, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live? For they disciplined us for a short time as it seemed best to them, but he disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness. For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.
(Heb 12:5-11)
Instead of thinking of Gods discipline as punishment, because its not, think of it as a boxers body and what it experiences in being being trained for a a boxing match, because that is exactly what is in view. We are all in training, being trained by God to fight the good fight.
 
Feb 7, 2015
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Let's get practical about 1Jn 1:9.

When I drove taxis before being born again, i pocketed a $100 money order a drunk customer left in the back seat with no guilty conscience except the fear of getting caught.
Today, I cant even pocket $5 from extra change from a store clerk without my conscience feeling the weight of the wrong.

Now is that the Holy Spirit or satan convicting my new man?
I was the one who wrote the original scenario about the taxi and clerk, so I know what was meant.
Maybe you twisted it to your own purpose?
I apologize. I didn't realize you meant that you actually do still pocket change you know is in excess, and have to return it when you begin to feel guilty.

That's good that you eventually give it back. And, I'd say you are right, THAT probably is conviction for giving in to worldly behavior.
 
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K

KennethC

Guest
Thank you for sharing, Ken. The Prodigal Son came to mind the entire time I read and re-read your post. What stands out to me is that you walked away altogether, and I believe that is different than being sinful while never walking away. Once again, I'm leaning towards grace, not law.

I am all for God's grace and not once have I agreed or defended the written ordinances of the Mosaic law.

People think I have because I constantly stand up for the 10 Commandments of God, and I have tried to no end show there is a difference between the written and moral.

The Word of God clearly makes this distinction between the two, and how by walking in love establishes and upholds them, not void them.

Every time you see a scripture speaking of the law being voided, done away with, or doesn't apply it is referring to the written ordinances of the Mosaic law. Not once is it referring to the moral or spiritual aspect to the law !!!

God's grace leads to righteousness in Him, the written law leads to unrighteousness....

The one thing some must remember is that anti-christ is also called the "man of lawlessness", because he walks as though God's moral law doesn't apply to him. For being the transgressor that he is will lead him straight to the lake of fire, and anybody else that follows that lawless style will find their place the same !!!
 
Nov 22, 2015
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I can think of a way where that might come into play..

I knee down and pray to God saying.." Dear God it says in your Word that in Isaiah you will send the Messiah and he will die for us. Please I beg of you to send him to us now...according to your word and power.."

I could do this sincerely for hours at a time ...daily and for years even and even interspace it with genuine tears...but it is all useless. No matter how "sincere" I am..it's not according to knowledge..

BUT fellowshipping with the Lord..that is always good and benefical and He loves being with us!..He 's a good, loving Father.

I am NOT saying peacefulbeliever is doing that as she has a beautiful heart for our Lord as can be readily seen in her... ..I'm just giving you an example of useless prayer in general..I'm sure we can come up with a few more..


I wonder how anyone could see praying to be aligned with the will of God as a waste of time.
 

JGIG

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2013
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Oooh, I should be doing something else right now, but crossnote, I have to ask:

Why would God/His Holy Spirit convict you of sins that He has clearly stated that He is not holding against you?

16 So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer.

17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ,the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here! 18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation:

19
that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them.

And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20 We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God. 21 God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. (from 2 Cor. 5)

Put another way, why would God/His Holy Spirit, remind you of sins He has told us He chooses to remember no more (see Jer. 31 and Heb. 10)?

-JGIG
For the purpose of conforming us to His image.
When you sin, does God applaud it or...

Hebrews 12:5-8 KJVS
[5] And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: [6] For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. [7] If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? [8] But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
I'll happy to answer your question just as soon as you answer mine. (And I do have an answer regarding Heb. 12)

God says very clearly that in the New Covenant, this will be the case:

34 And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.” (from Jer. 31)

It's repeated here:


17 Then he adds:

“Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.”

18 And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary. (from Heb. 10)



And I'll actually add to my question.

If further forgiveness for sins is necessary for believers why is sacrifice for those sins no longer necessary?

And why would God/His Holy Spirit, remind you of sins He has told us He chooses to remember no more and have already been forgiven?


And if you say that sins committed after you believed still need to be confessed before they're forgiven because they are in the future, THINK for a moment:

EVERY SIN that you committed was in the future when Christ did the Work of the Cross, the Resurrection, the Ascension, and became the Perfect, Permanent High Priest Who SITS in the heavenly Temple at the Right Hand of God in a position of REST because His Work is DONE.

Your sins, my sins, everyone's sins for ALL TIME were dealt with by Christ already. There is no process of sin, ask forgiveness, rinse, and repeat for the believer. You were cleansed by the Blood of Christ for ONE reason, and that was so that you could be indwelt with New Life - sealed with the Holy Spirit, because God won't live in dirty places. Christ made you CLEAN.

If His cleansing, and the Righteousness and New Life of His Spirit that was gifted to you (which, and please please please get this - this is NOT Gnostic thought - the Righteousness and the New Life we receive is HIS, not ours, just cleaned up until our next sin - look it up) could be defiled, EVERY SIN, NO MATTER HOW GREAT OR HOW SMALL that you commit, would cause God's Spirit to leave you, making you spiritually DEAD. That's serious business, and the New Covenant Scriptures are clear that is not what happens when we sin.

"Little children, when you sin, confess your sins to receive forgiveness to restore fellowship . . . "

No, that's not what John says, he says this:

My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. (from 1 John 2)

John follows up by telling us why that advocacy is in place:

2 He is the propitiation [the full satisfaction of God's justice] for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. 3 And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. (from 1 John 2)

There it is! We have to keep His commandments! Also defined by John:

23 And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us. 24 Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us. (from 1 John 3)

God's commandments after the Cross are only two: Believe in Christ and love one another. And Love is the First Fruit of the Spirit that He gives us and Who abides in us. And He cannot abide in us unless we are first cleansed by Him, and after He abides (comes to live) in us, He SEALS US UNTO THE DAY OF REDEMPTION (see Eph. 1).

Nowhere does New Covenant Scripture say that your behavior undoes any or all of that. Rather New Covenant Scriptures tell us over and over who we are in Christ (read through the Epistles and see how many times you see 'in Christ', 'through Christ', 'because of Christ', etc.), building us up in Him and then exhorting us to live/behave accordingly.

That is Grace - getting what we DON"T deserve - the Godhead maintaining our salvation because we can no more maintain it that we could attain it - it is by faith from first to last.

** Remember those questions above. I highlighted them in red for you =).

-JGIG
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,887
29,274
113
I can think of a way where that might come into play..

I knee down and pray to God saying.." Dear God it says in your Word that in Isaiah you will send the Messiah and he will die for us. Please I beg of you to send him to us now...according to your word and power.."

I could do this sincerely for hours at a time ...daily and for years even and even interspace it with genuine tears...but it is all useless. No matter how "sincere" I am..it's not according to knowledge..

BUT fellowshipping with the Lord..that is always good and benefical and He loves being with us!..He 's a good, loving Father.

I am NOT saying peacefulbeliever is doing that as she has a beautiful heart for our Lord as can be readily seen in her... ..I'm just giving you an example of useless prayer in general..I'm sure we can come up with a few more..

I am not sure how you see praying for something that has already happened to be the equivalent of a person praying to be aligned with God's will for their life in the present ongoing into the future.
 
O

oldthennew

Guest
un-fortunately,

for many in this 'new-age' they have been given yet another 'pass' in order to 'continue' on
in their 'past-behaviour'.....claiming non-conviction=not needing to repent, over-come,
they may continue as their old-present-always comfortable man-and do as they well please....

may God have mercy.....
 
Jan 27, 2013
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Those people's past sins were forgiven. Those verses say nothing about sins that they hadn't committed yet.
oops

Romans 8: Life in the Spirit
1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death Romans 8: Life in the Spirit

ware did you get your definition of sin.