The 1 John 1:9 Lie: More New.Modern.Hyper Grace blasphemy

[Grace777x70]

it looks like Jesus with His word sanctifies us....we participate in His life...we are washed in our walk by His word...we awake to righteousness.

Our Father deals with us in our spirit with the word. He disciplines ( child-train ) us with His word. Would we beat our own children with a "scourging" like in Jesus's scouraging? of course not..they would throw us in jail and they should. w Hy do we think less of our Father? Scourging is never a form of discipline for children.


Hebrews 12:9-10 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Furthermore, we had earthly fathers to discipline us, and we respected them; shall we not much rather be subject to the Father of spirits, and live?
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For they disciplined us for a short time as seemed best to them, but He disciplines us for our good, so that we may share His holiness.


John 17:17-19 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] "Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth.[SUP]18 [/SUP] "As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] "For their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they themselves also may be sanctified in truth.

We are cleansed by His word!

Ephesians 5:26-27 (KJV)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
[SUP]27 [/SUP] That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] Faithful is He who calls you, and He also will bring it to pass.


Hebrews 13:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Therefore Jesus also, that He might sanctify the people through His own blood, suffered outside the gate.

There are lots more but I think we are catching on...

Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me. Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head. Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all.
(Joh 13:8-10)

Same principle.

 

[Grandpa]

The gnostics also thought that grace couldn't be taken away from them. See post #1.

The bible witnesses that only those who do the will of GOD will be saved.

Well it looks like they weren't wrong about everything.

Hebrews 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

 

[JGIG]

I think most of us believe all of the above - but where is 1 John 1? 1 John 1 is not talking about salvation. It is talking about one's WALK - It is talking about fellowship, relationship, communion, a REALLY close relationship.
"that which we have seen and heard we proclaim also to you SO THAT YOU TOO MAY HAVE FELLOWSHIP with us and indeed our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ. We are writing these things so that our joy may be complete." What things are they writing about: fellowship, relationship.

Why even talk about this at all if there is no need to ask for forgiveness? Why is this portion of scripture even in here? We don't need it so we can just rip it out for it has no purpose . . .

Fellowship with who???

John is writing to those whose 'walk' is in darkness, and because it is in darkness, they have neither fellowship with 'US', believers, or with God, who believers DO have fellowship with.

-JGIG

 

[JGIG]

Here is just one word 'chastise'...

to chew, consume, eat, devour
g3146. μαστιγόω mastigoō; from 3148; to flog ( literally or figuratively): — scourge.
AV ( 7)- scourge 7;
to scourge

and here is 'discipline'...

g3811. παιδεύω paideuō; from 3816; to train up a child, i. e. educate, or (by implication), discipline (by punishment):— chasten (- ise), instruct, learn, teach.

_____ God's Discipline_____

Quote and source below:

God's discipline is not because of our past;
it's training for our future.

'Their past, their sins, their lawless acts I remember no more (Jer. 31, 2 Cor. 5, Heb. 10). But I will discipline them for their future, so that they are trained by it, so that there's a peaceful fruit of righteousness (Heb. 12:11).'

God is not disciplining us in reaction to our sins; God put Jesus on the Cross in reaction to our sins. That's how God reacted. 'This [sin] doesn't deserve discipline, this deserves death! And so My Son will not be disciplined, He will be killed
(Is. 53:6, Rom. 4:25, Col. 1:22).'

And Jesus died, and there is no payment for those sins left (Rom. 3:25-26, Heb. 10:18, 1 Jn. 2:2).

And now, we look at the discipline of God, and we say there is frankly no model for it. There is no other discipline on the planet like this, because no one has ever sent their son to die for me and then chose to train me for the rest of my life.

Do you see it?

Perfect love casts out fear. There is no fear, because fear involves punishment (1 Jn. 4:18).

But Jesus was already punished.

And what's happening with us, is we're being perfected in love, and there's no fear in love (1 Jn. 4:17).

Instead what is there?

A peaceful fruit of righteousness (Heb. 12:11).

- Andrew Farley
From his series on the letter to the Hebrews - "By His Stripes, or Ours?"



-JGIG

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Please provide for us the Scripture that says that Christ is continually presenting (offering) His Blood to the Father.

I'll paraphrase because you should know what the verses are are.

Christ appeared with his blood after his resurrection to the disciples.

The slaughtered lamb was seen in heaven by John in the midst of the throne.

The blood cleanses us from all sin. Present tense, not past. The blood can't cleanse us if it's not presently in heaven.

We have a high priest in heaven who continually ministers on our behalf. No high priest could enter the holiest place of the temple without blood. This also proves that Christ entered into heaven with his blood.

Do you really think that his blood just disappeared?

 

[crossnote]

it looks like Jesus with His word sanctifies us....we participate in His life...we are washed in our walk by His word...we awake to righteousness.

Our Father deals with us in our spirit with the word. He disciplines ( child-train ) us with His word. Would we beat our own children with a "scourging" like in Jesus's scouraging? of course not..they would throw us in jail and they should. w Hy do we think less of our Father? Scourging is never a form of discipline for children.


Hebrews 12:9-10 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Furthermore, we had earthly fathers to discipline us, and we respected them; shall we not much rather be subject to the Father of spirits, and live?
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For they disciplined us for a short time as seemed best to them, but He disciplines us for our good, so that we may share His holiness.


John 17:17-19 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] "Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth.[SUP]18 [/SUP] "As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] "For their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they themselves also may be sanctified in truth.

We are cleansed by His word!

Ephesians 5:26-27 (KJV)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
[SUP]27 [/SUP] That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] Faithful is He who calls you, and He also will bring it to pass.


Hebrews 13:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Therefore Jesus also, that He might sanctify the people through His own blood, suffered outside the gate.

There are lots more but I think we are catching on...

I know it is hard for our narcissistic and permissive culture to even entertain the thought of a spanking. But reality is that Heb 12:6 has the word 'chastises' but it is in the hands of a loving Father. That may seem contradictory but that's how God operates...

g3145. μασσάομαι massaomai; from a primary μάσσω massō (to handle or squeeze); to chew:— gnaw.
AV (1)- gnaw 1;
to chew, consume, eat, devour
g3146. μαστιγόω mastigoō; from 3148; to flog ( literally or figuratively): — scourge.
AV ( 7)- scourge 7;
to scourge

 

[FreeNChrist]

Well, being totally honest here, I have not totally "morphed" into something entirely new. I still mess up - I still have to put off the old and put on the new - I am still renewing my mind! And when I do do those things that I truly do not want to do - I admit it, acknowledge it and let it go - no wallowing in the mud for me!

But, you have been made into something entirely new. Whether you realize it or not. We all still mess up. We are all still having our minds renewed. We all do things we do not want to do (get that). And that is the whole point of true confession, to admit it, acknowledge it, and let it go.....because God already has.

"Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come" 2 Cor 5:19

 

[FreeNChrist]

View attachment 143045

_____ God's Discipline_____

Quote and source below:

God's discipline is not because of our past;
it's training for our future.

'Their past, their sins, their lawless acts I remember no more (Jer. 31, 2 Cor. 5, Heb. 10). But I will discipline them for their future, so that they are trained by it, so that there's a peaceful fruit of righteousness (Heb. 12:11).'

God is not disciplining us in reaction to our sins; God put Jesus on the Cross in reaction to our sins. That's how God reacted. 'This [sin] doesn't deserve discipline, this deserves death! And so My Son will not be disciplined, He will be killed
(Is. 53:6, Rom. 4:25, Col. 1:22).'

And Jesus died, and there is no payment for those sins left (Rom. 3:25-26, Heb. 10:18, 1 Jn. 2:2).

And now, we look at the discipline of God, and we say there is frankly no model for it. There is no other discipline on the planet like this, because no one has ever sent their son to die for me and then chose to train me for the rest of my life.

Do you see it?

Perfect love casts out fear. There is no fear, because fear involves punishment (1 Jn. 4:18).

But Jesus was already punished.

And what's happening with us, is we're being perfected in love, and there's no fear in love (1 Jn. 4:17).

Instead what is there?

A peaceful fruit of righteousness (Heb. 12:11).

- Andrew Farley
From his series on the letter to the Hebrews - "By His Stripes, or Ours?"
​

By His Stripes or Ours Audio
​

-JGIG​

Beautiful. Perfect.

 

[FreeNChrist]

I'll paraphrase because you should know what the verses are are.

Christ appeared with his blood after his resurrection to the disciples.

The slaughtered lamb was seen in heaven by John in the midst of the throne.

The blood cleanses us from all sin. Present tense, not past. The blood can't cleanse us if it's not presently in heaven.

We have a high priest in heaven who continually ministers on our behalf. No high priest could enter the holiest place of the temple without blood. This also proves that Christ entered into heaven with his blood.

Do you really think that his blood just disappeared?

Scripture please.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I was done at 23 minutes in because even though Prince said it was sad, he still said certain people who were living in willful sin where still operating in God's grace.

That is a lie because there is no darkness in the Light, you can not operate in sin and in God's grace at the same time.

He was placing the gifts of the Holy Spirit in the hands of the disobedient, which is contradictory to scripture as the Holy Spirit is given to those who obey.......Acts 5:32

Operate in sin? Of course someone can sin and still remain in the grace of GOD. That is what grace is. We don't get kicked to the curb every time we sin. Committing sin is not walking in the light, but a believer is still in the light in terms of the covenant.

 

[JGIG]

I don't do well with long posts but I'll attempt to answer your questions in red...



I think this has been answered by both the relational question (husband to wife) the barriers that go up when either one does not 'come clean'...the same hurts our relation to God when we don't come clean.

Secondly the context of 1Jn 1:9 demands it is us Christians who need to confess our sins regardless what theological sophistry we employ.

If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
(1Jn 1:6-10)



Again, it is part of the purging process. We have been rescued, now starts the cleaning and purging. It has nothing to do with our eternal security as regenerate believers.

But the wages of sin is not loss of fellowship (relationship), the wages of sin is death.

1 John 1:9 says that if we confess our sins He is faithful to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

How much is all?

If all unrighteousness (sin) is cleansed, why do we require further cleansing?

-JGIG

 

[JGIG]

I thought I wrote this here, but I didn't:


1 John 1 is not describing a believer - John is talking to unbelievers there, and fellowship that he's talking about is fellowship with believers - that unbelievers don't have unless they come into Christ!John isn't saying that if a believer sins they lose fellowship with God.

When John uses the term, 'we' in chapter 1, it's a polite way of speaking to unbelievers - we've all been where they are - we've all had to acknowledge our sin and confess - agree with God - our sinful state and our need for Christ and His Work. And when we do (did), we are (were - an accomplished fact) forgiven and cleansed. He is faithful to forgive us of all of our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness \o/. There is no caveat there that indicates 'until we sin again'.

It is at that point that we go from walking in the dark to walking in the light. John uses those terms interchangeably with death and life - it's his style of writing. We don't go back and forth from light to dark and back to light again based on our confession and further forgiveness of sins. All of our sins were dealt with at the Cross. We have entered into life.

And then after John wraps up the first chapter, he addresses the Body of Christ, "My little children . . . "

Not complicated, really.

-JGIG

If he were talking to unbelievers - it seems he would have reiterated Romans 10:9,10 confess Jesus as Lord and believe in their hearts that God raised him from the dead and they would be saved . . . or . . . Repent and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. - I don't recall having to confess sins unto righteousness. Oh, John did baptize in the Jordan with the people confessing their sins - Mark 1:5; and Matt. 3:6.

He did reiterate those concepts . . . in 1 John 1:9 .

-JGIG

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

I'll paraphrase because you should know what the verses are are.

Christ appeared with his blood after his resurrection to the disciples.

The slaughtered lamb was seen in heaven by John in the midst of the throne.

The blood cleanses us from all sin. Present tense, not past. The blood can't cleanse us if it's not presently in heaven.

We have a high priest in heaven who continually ministers on our behalf. No high priest could enter the holiest place of the temple without blood. This also proves that Christ entered into heaven with his blood.

Do you really think that his blood just disappeared?

Christ's blood speaks (bears witness to our hearts) and washes our insides in a new and Living way by the Holy Spirit. Here is a post I wrote on the subject not too long ago....

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/123667-washed-water-blood-word.html

 

[Jimbone]

Nothing in that shows He convicts at all. lol

Really man? Serious question, and please don't take me in the wrong tone (very hard to put "tone" in text), but this is sincere curiousity and an honest question with no hostility at all intended. When you as a regenerated believer make a bonehead move and do something you know you shouldn't and know is sinful, you don't feel bad at all? You don't say "dang I can't believe I did that, man it was stupid and I'm sorry Lord", then actively try to avoid doing it again? That's what I understand them to be talking about. You as a "new man" follower of Christ don't ever do that?

 

[Grace777x70]

Does God really scourge us?

“The Lord scourges every son he receives.” That’s what it says. The original Greek word for scourges is mastigoō. It’s a verb that means “to scourge.” It is the same word that describes what Pilate had done to Jesus (John 19:1). So if you need a mental picture of God’s scourging, you’ll be wanting the Roman flagellum with the bits of metal in the thongs and the little hooks called scorpions at the end.

If this troubles you, I’m glad. It means you have a brain! It means you are struggling to reconcile a good God with an evil whip. I’m here to tell you that God never, ever, ever scourges his kids. But before I give you my reasons, I have to be honest and admit that every single commentator I’ve read says he does. As far as I can tell, they all say stuff like this:

“Scourges” means literally to flog or scourge… and entails any suffering which God ordains… God’s chastisement includes not only his “whipping” us so to speak for specific transgressions (but even here with the idea of remedial not retributive intent), but also the entire range of trials and tribulations which he providentially ordains and which work to mortify sin and nurture faith, ultimately serving to conform us to the image of His Son… Notice that “scourges” is in the present tense, which indicates that this is not a one time event, but can be expected in the lives of those who are truly God’s spiritual children. ~Precept Austin

God scourges us repeatedly. Isn’t that wonderful? Sheesh. No wonder sinners aren’t running into church when we’re preaching stuff like that.

In my next post I am going to give you seven solid reasons why you can be convinced that God never scourges his children. But first, how are we to account for Hebrews 12:6, which says he does?

It’s a misquote

Look in the margin notes of your Bible and you will see that Hebrews 12:6 is quoting Proverbs 3:11-12. It’s a direct quote copied from the Old Testament and pasted into the New. Let’s put the original Proverb and the Hebrews version side by side and see if you can spot any differences:

[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="width: 50%, align: center"]Original Quote from Prov 3:11-12[/TD]
[TD="width: 50%, align: center"]Copied in Hebrews 12:5-6[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]My son, do not despise the chastening of the Lord,
Nor detest his correction;
For whom the Lord loves he corrects,
Just as a father the son in whom he delights.[/TD]
[TD]My son, do not despise the chastening of the Lord,
Nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by him
For whom the Lord loves he chastens,
And scourges every son whom he receives
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
The first three lines of the original Proverb are faithfully reproduced in Hebrews 12. But look at that last line – the copy is nothing like the original. How are we to account for this? One of them must be wrong.

According to Adam Clarke, the Victorian theologian, the incorrectly translated verse is the one on the left. Apparently, our English version of the old proverb is a poor translation. Read Proverbs in the Septuagint (the Greek Old Testament) and you’ll find something that looks more like the one on the right. According to him, God scourges us in both testaments.

My problem with Clarke’s interpretation is that paints a picture of God wholly inconsistent with his character, as revealed in Jesus. What is the best translation of the Bible? It’s not the Septuagint – it’s Jesus!

The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being… (Heb 1:3)

It seems to me that we might just as easily conclude that the wrong verse is the one on the right. Something was lost in translation.

Have you ever seen Joseph Prince preach? If so, you will know he sometimes switches from English to Chinese to better make a point for his Chinese-speaking audience. I think something like that happened with the book of Hebrews. Either,

1. Hebrews was written in Hebrew, or

2. Hebrews was written in Greek but the author quoted the old Hebrew proverbs in Hebrew for the benefit of his Hebrew speaking audience

…and later, when Hebrews 12:6 was translated into Greek, the translator/copyist (not the author) made a mistake.

Lost in translation

I admit, I’m no linguist. But Andrew Farley is and on p.234ff of his book God Without Religion he explains how a translation error like the one I just described could’ve happened. In his expert opinion, a Hebrew word that can be translated “to scourge” can also be translated “to inquire into.” In other words, God doesn’t scourge us, rather

God deeply inquires into our lives as he disciplines us, so that we can experience a harvest of righteousness and peace. (Heb 12:6, Farley’s paraphrase)

This Hebrew word with two meanings could explain how the Septuagint got it wrong. I encourage you to read Farley’s book if you want to dig deeper.

What is Hebrews really saying?

In my view, the Hebrew author of the epistle to the Hebrews meant to say something like what we see in the Hebrew proverb, namely:

For whom the Lord loves he instructs, just as a father the son in whom he delights. (Heb 12:6, my translation)

This may be a better translation than the one you may have in your English Bible because it satisfies three tests:

(1) It is consistent with the revelation of God the Father given to us through Jesus the Son, (2) it is consistent with many other scriptures indicating that God delights in his children and that he cares enough to bring life-giving correction, and (3) it fits the context of Hebrews 12, as I will explain in my next post.

 

[JGIG]

John 16:7-11 "Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.[SUP]8 [/SUP]And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Of sin, because they believe not on me;
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged."

The Holy Spirit needs a mouth piece in order to speak and reprove the world of sin, that mouth is given to the Lords disciples.

Oh, are you still of the world?

-JGIG

 

[Willie-T]

Really man? Serious question, and please don't take me in the wrong tone (very hard to put "tone" in text), but this is sincere curiousity and an honest question with no hostility at all intended. When you as a regenerated believer make a bonehead move and do something you know you shouldn't and know is sinful, you don't feel bad at all? You don't say "dang I can't believe I did that, man it was stupid and I'm sorry Lord", then actively try to avoid doing it again? That's what I understand them to be talking about. You as a "new man" follower of Christ don't ever do that?

That is exactly what we do. Do you see "conviction" in that?

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Oh, are you still of the world?

-JGIG

Nope. Those who are born again from heaven above are no longer of the world.

John 17:14-16 "I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.[SUP]15 [/SUP]I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world."

 

[JGIG]

Again the Strongs (not me) says...

g3145. μασσάομαι massaomai; from a primary μάσσω massō (to handle or squeeze); to chew:— gnaw.
AV (1)- gnaw 1;
to chew, consume, eat, devour
g3146. μαστιγόω mastigoō; from 3148; to flog ( literally or figuratively): — scourge.
AV ( 7)- scourge 7;
to scourge

If you won't click the link, maybe you'll read some text, though you 'have a hard time' with it:

It’s a misquote
Look in the margin notes of your Bible and you will see that Hebrews 12:6 is quoting Proverbs 3:11-12. It’s a direct quote copied from the Old Testament and pasted into the New. Let’s put the original Proverb and the Hebrews version side by side and see if you can spot any differences:

​

[TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 50%, align: center"]

Original Quote from Prov 3:11-12​

[/TD]
[TD="width: 50%, align: center"]

Copied in Hebrews 12:5-6​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

My son, do not despise the chastening of the Lord,
Nor detest his correction;
For whom the Lord loves he corrects,
Just as a father the son in whom he delights.​

[/TD]
[TD]

My son, do not despise the chastening of the Lord,
Nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by him
For whom the Lord loves he chastens,
And scourges every son whom he receives​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

The first three lines of the original Proverb are faithfully reproduced in Hebrews 12. But look at that last line – the copy is nothing like the original. How are we to account for this? One of them must be wrong.

According to Adam Clarke, the Victorian theologian, the incorrectly translated verse is the one on theleft. Apparently, our English version of the old proverb is a poor translation. Read Proverbs in the Septuagint (the Greek Old Testament) and you’ll find something that looks more like the one on the right. According to him, God scourges us in both testaments.

My problem with Clarke’s interpretation is that paints a picture of God wholly inconsistent with his character, as revealed in Jesus. What is the best translation of the Bible? It’s not the Septuagint – it’s Jesus!

The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being… (Heb 1:3)

It seems to me that we might just as easily conclude that the wrong verse is the one on the right. Something was lost in translation.

Have you ever seen Joseph Prince preach? If so, you will know he sometimes switches from English to Chinese to better make a point for his Chinese-speaking audience. I think something like that happened with the book of Hebrews. Either,

1. Hebrews was written in Hebrew, or
2. Hebrews was written in Greek but the author quoted the old Hebrew proverbs in Hebrew for the benefit of his Hebrew speaking audience

…and later, when Hebrews 12:6 was translated into Greek, the translator/copyist (not the author) made a mistake.

Lost in translation
I admit, I’m no linguist. But Andrew Farley is and on p.234ff of his book God Without Religion he explains how a translation error like the one I just described could’ve happened. In his expert opinion, a Hebrew word that can be translated “to scourge” can also be translated “to inquire into.”

In other words, God doesn’t scourge us, rather God deeply inquires into our lives as he disciplines us, so that we can experience a harvest of righteousness and peace. (Heb 12:6, Farley’s paraphrase)

This Hebrew word with two meanings could explain how the Septuagint got it wrong. I encourage you to read Farley’s book if you want to dig deeper.

What is Hebrews really saying?
In my view, the Hebrew author of the epistle to the Hebrews meant to say something like what we see in the Hebrew proverb, namely:
For whom the Lord loves he instructs, just as a father the son in whom he delights. (Heb 12:6, my translation)

This may be a better translation than the one you may have in your English Bible because it satisfies three tests: (1) It is consistent with the revelation of God the Father given to us through Jesus the Son, (2) it is consistent with many other scriptures indicating that God delights in his children and that he cares enough to bring life-giving correction, and (3) it fits the context of Hebrews 12, as I will explain in my next post.​

Read the entire article here: Hebrews 12:6 Does God Scourge His Kids? – Escape to Reality



-JGIG

 

[JGIG]

Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me. Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head. Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all.
(Joh 13:8-10)

Same principle.

Sigh. Context:

6 He came to Simon Peter, who said to him, “Lord, are you going to wash my feet?”

7 Jesus replied, “You do not realize now what I am doing, but later you will understand.”

8 “No,” said Peter, “you shall never wash my feet.”
Jesus answered, “Unless I wash you, you have no part with me.”

9 “Then, Lord,” Simon Peter replied, “not just my feet but my hands and my head as well!”

10 Jesus answered, “Those who have had a bath need only to wash their feet; their whole body is clean. And you are clean, though not every one of you.” 11 For he knew who was going to betray him, and that was why he said not every one was clean.

That passage is not about continuous cleansing of sins, it's about receiving the Work of Christ.

-JGIG