The Deceitfulness of New.Modern.Hyper Grace

[KennethC]

It is no wonder why people are caught up in a doctrine that when they speak they show no victory or overcoming of sin, because they are lied to that every fleeting thought is automatically a sin.

Then they take and place things that aren't sins as sins, like I have seen with about 3 on here who have said good works done even in the faith are still self-effort and wrong.

Works done in the faith or done in Christ are not self-effort, they are His righteousness done within us !!!

Good works being as filthy rags are only those that are done outside of Christ, because no matter how good a person is if they don't believe in Christ those good deeds are for not.

Only in Christ are good deeds acceptable and thus we are rewarded for faithful servitude to Him, if works were still useless filthy rags while in Christ then Hebrews 6:10 would not have said what it does about God not forgetting our works and labor of love shown toward Him.

 

[KennethC]

I agree. What amazes me is not the random thoughts or reactions we have but is how many do not see dwelling on the wrong things leads to sinful actions. It is not the dwelling that is sinful but the action that is the fruit. So the dwelling becomes the unclean act.

It is like talking to a brainwashed zombies who assume I believe a set of ideas when I do not. But God help them, they need help. The more time I spend here the more holes in their life approach appear, which does have real consequences. Churches do fall and collapse because of this lack of reality. When the words do not match the actions, sin rips it all apart.

The dwelling part is sin as well, it is just not the sin that leads to death as James and John said !!!

Sin that leads to death is when you let it become full grown to where it becomes action and controls our lives again.

The fleeting or random thought alone by itself is not sin, it is when emotions/feelings get involved it gives birth to sin. Because by then you start into a vengeful state of mind, but the scriptures say we can take and bring all thoughts captive to the way of Christ. Meaning we can shut them down before they become sin !!!

I know from example this happens because every time a impure thought arises, I quickly stop it and say you shouldn't be thinking like that and put my focus on something else !!!

Thanks to God I am able to do that now........................

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The dwelling part is sin as well, it is just not the sin that leads to death as James and John said !!!

Sin that leads to death is when you let it become full grown to where it becomes action and controls our lives again.

The fleeting or random thought alone by itself is not sin, it is when emotions/feelings get involved it gives birth to sin. Because by then you start into a vengeful state of mind, but the scriptures say we can take and bring all thoughts captive to the way of Christ. Meaning we can shut them down before they become sin !!!

I know from example this happens because every time a impure thought arises, I quickly stop it and say you shouldn't be thinking like that and put my focus on something else !!!

Thanks to God I am able to do that now........................

The penalty of sin is death, The gift of God is eternal life.

Stop excusing sin, And realize as far as eternity goes. You can live your whole life obeying the law. yet stumble in one area and you are guilty and deserving of eternal death..

Your religion is meaningless because it has no power. Its power is self. which is carnality.

my salvation is secure because it is in Christ.. It is my continued knowledge that even on my finest day (morally speaking) I am still condemned as a sinner..

when people like you and Peter realize this, You will be freed with a freedom which is so amazing and so powerful (because it is supernatural) you would realize you would never return to your own filth, because you would never have a desire too. because you see your filth for what it is..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It is no wonder why people are caught up in a doctrine that when they speak they show no victory or overcoming of sin, because they are lied to that every fleeting thought is automatically a sin.

Then they take and place things that aren't sins as sins, like I have seen with about 3 on here who have said good works done even in the faith are still self-effort and wrong.

Works done in the faith or done in Christ are not self-effort, they are His righteousness done within us !!!

Good works being as filthy rags are only those that are done outside of Christ, because no matter how good a person is if they don't believe in Christ those good deeds are for not.

Only in Christ are good deeds acceptable and thus we are rewarded for faithful servitude to Him, if works were still useless filthy rags while in Christ then Hebrews 6:10 would not have said what it does about God not forgetting our works and labor of love shown toward Him.

One admitting he can not keep the law perfectly is not the same as saying they can not have victory over sin..One can have massive victory over sin, yet not keep the law as God requires..

This strawman is getting old.. and useless. and only furthers the fact you do not understand grace, or what those who believe and entrust themselves to it believe.

 

[PeterJens]

The dwelling part is sin as well, it is just not the sin that leads to death as James and John said !!!

Sin that leads to death is when you let it become full grown to where it becomes action and controls our lives again.

The fleeting or random thought alone by itself is not sin, it is when emotions/feelings get involved it gives birth to sin. Because by then you start into a vengeful state of mind, but the scriptures say we can take and bring all thoughts captive to the way of Christ. Meaning we can shut them down before they become sin !!!

I know from example this happens because every time a impure thought arises, I quickly stop it and say you shouldn't be thinking like that and put my focus on something else !!!

Thanks to God I am able to do that now........................

That point of choosing ones thought life, in bringing everything captive under Jesus sounds corny but so true.

We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.
2 Cor 10:5

This takes effort, discipline, patience, accepting forgiveness when we fail and walking on. It is obvious many have not even begun this process, or even that it is necessary. What encourages me is Paul himself did the very same things, and I am sure the apostles likewise.

I have learnt the hardway is desire is a small stepping stone road, which is stopped most easily at the beginning, but gains strength and influence the more you walk down it, to the point where it takes over. So when left to run riot it seems like a king until you start to walk in Spirit and bring everything to Him.

 

[KennethC]

That point of choosing ones thought life, in bringing everything captive under Jesus sounds corny but so true.

We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.
2 Cor 10:5

This takes effort, discipline, patience, accepting forgiveness when we fail and walking on. It is obvious many have not even begun this process, or even that it is necessary. What encourages me is Paul himself did the very same things, and I am sure the apostles likewise.

I have learnt the hardway is desire is a small stepping stone road, which is stopped most easily at the beginning, but gains strength and influence the more you walk down it, to the point where it takes over. So when left to run riot it seems like a king until you start to walk in Spirit and bring everything to Him.

Yes and this discipline, patience, and longsuffering is what helps us to mature in the faith !!!

Yet others will continue to pass false allegations on us trying to say things we never have, like obedience to the Mosaic laws, or excusing sin, and such.

They do such tactic's because their way is faulty and can not be defended thus they must attack those who have abounded and matured under God's Grace to make themselves look better, when all they are doing is letting selfish pride get in the way of their growth.

Sin hinders growth, dealing with it and with the help of the Holy Spirit putting it away leads to growth in the faith !!!

 

[BenFTW]

Hey guys! This thread is exactly the reason hyper-grace theology needed a thread like this: http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/129882-common-misconceptions-hyper-grace.html

There are so many misconceptions, even in this thread already, that are addressed there. Go check it out to be informed.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

"I never knew that person even though I knew him for years." Don't you have ears to hear what this says?

Hey guys! This thread is exactly the reason hyper-grace theology needed a thread like this: http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/129882-common-misconceptions-hyper-grace.html

There are so many misconceptions, even in this thread already, that are addressed there. Go check it out to be informed.

Instead of trying to spin new.modern.hyper grace in another thread, it might look better if you address some of it's deceitfulness described in posts 1, 2 and 3 in this thread.

 

[PeterJens]

They do such tactic's because their way is faulty and can not be defended thus they must attack those who have abounded and matured under God's Grace to make themselves look better, when all they are doing is letting selfish pride get in the way of their growth.

According to their own life experience they claim we are just like them in their legalistic past. This is a road they have rejected so interpret all our words as their failed attempt at walking in their own strength.

Now I cannot think like they do as I have never walked in their ways. I am not sure there is anyway back for them, because all the normal routes they have already closed down. Jesus said simply

Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters.
Matt 12:30

I cannot explain their desire to break or deny simple biblical truths and walking with Jesus.
But if you shut out love and reality that much, the box is closed.

One thing above anything I listen to is the rebuke of the Lord and conviction of sin.
So harsh have been the words with no foundation, there is no fear in their eyes.
How can they ever loose that which they claim to have so clearly, so what they accuse us of has no consequence.

It is so odd to lie and miss-represent things, and when called out about it, silence.
I cannot trust anyone who talks like this because this is not of the Lord.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Instead of trying to spin new.modern.hyper grace in another thread, it might look better if you address some of it's deceitfulness described in posts 1, 2 and 3 in this thread.

That would be fine if any of us taught that crap. Or if it was even a known doctrine spoken of as you say by many.

But it is not. so why would we wish to address something we do not even believe.

Maybe you can adress why you continually say we teach it when we do not?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

According to their own life experience they claim we are just like them in their legalistic past. This is a road they have rejected so interpret all our words as their failed attempt at walking in their own strength.

Now I cannot think like they do as I have never walked in their ways. I am not sure there is anyway back for them, because all the normal routes they have already closed down. Jesus said simply

Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters.
Matt 12:30

I cannot explain their desire to break or deny simple biblical truths and walking with Jesus.
But if you shut out love and reality that much, the box is closed.

One thing above anything I listen to is the rebuke of the Lord and conviction of sin.
So harsh have been the words with no foundation, there is no fear in their eyes.
How can they ever loose that which they claim to have so clearly, so what they accuse us of has no consequence.

It is so odd to lie and miss-represent things, and when called out about it, silence.
I cannot trust anyone who talks like this because this is not of the Lord.

listening to you and Ken speak is actually quite comical.

You preach one thing, yet then you preach something which totally contradicts what you base your theology on. And you continually say we teach something which we do not teach.

It is like the blind leading the blind..

 

[Grace777x70]

2 Corinthians 10:3-5 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh,
[SUP]4 [/SUP] for the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh, but divinely powerful for the destruction of fortresses.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] We are destroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ,

Warfare is bringing into captivity every thought " to the obedience of Christ"..what His obedience accomplished for us in His death and resurrection!

 

[PeterJens]

listening to you and Ken speak is actually quite comical.

You preach one thing, yet then you preach something which totally contradicts what you base your theology on. And you continually say we teach something which we do not teach.

It is like the blind leading the blind..

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
1 Cor 1:18

If you walk in the shadow of the cross in righteousness, amen, glory to God. However you might or might not believe, Amen and praise to Christ my Saviour, for in Him I have no fault or failing.

I can but share my life and my story, what you do with it is your affair, I have done all I can to the Praise of His name.

 

[PeterJens]

How do you know you love? Because you do.

I had a thought because that people see themselves not responding to others, and then knowing Jesus did.
But what happens if you heart is really closed down and you do not love anyone at all, and do not really know the language of love.

My answer is do you feel love to Jesus? Why?
If this is where it stops in your life you are at the gate. You need to begin to ask how do you love another?

If you do not even love Jesus, you have not begun, and it is just religion.

 

[Complete_In_Him]

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 1 Cor 1:18

[SUP] [/SUP]For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. 1 Corinthians 1:18 (KJV)

Hello.

And this is why words are important to our doctrine. In the verse, "being saved" or is it
"are saved", I am saved, that is, my soul is saved. Is your soul being saved, how?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Instead of trying to spin new.modern.hyper grace in another thread, it might look better if you address some of it's deceitfulness described in posts 1, 2 and 3 in this thread.

That would be fine if any of us taught that crap. Or if it was even a known doctrine spoken of as you say by many.

But it is not. so why would we wish to address something we do not even believe.

Maybe you can adress why you continually say we teach it when we do not?

Here's proof that you're wrong.

1 John 1:7 Do we need continual cleansing of sin?

By the way, the "walk in the light" part is just something that we have made "present continuous" but it actually refers to a state. Someone who walks in light is someone who believes in Jesus. Someone who walks in darkness is someone who denies Jesus.

It's the same as in Romans 8:1-9 when it says "who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit". This is not present continuous but is in fact a state a person is in or not in. You are either "in the flesh" (not born again) or "in the Spirit" (born again). Someone who is in the flesh walks after the flesh. Someone who is born again walks after the Spirit. Romans 8:9 clearly shows us this "You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you." Someone who has the Spirit dwelling in them is someone who is in the Spirit and therefore walks after the Spirit. ​

 

[PeterJens]

For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. 1 Corinthians 1:18 (KJV)

Hello.

And this is why words are important to our doctrine. In the verse, "being saved" or is it
"are saved", I am saved, that is, my soul is saved. Is your soul being saved, how?

Its an interesting translation point that I had not noticed. I would say we are in the Kingdom, walking with Jesus so we are saved. It appears though the greek implies an on going process. Maybe Paul is thinking of sanctification as well in his phrase. So not intent on my part.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

And this is why words are important to our doctrine. In the verse, "being saved" or is it
"are saved", I am saved, that is, my soul is saved. Is your soul being saved, how?

We are not fully saved yet. Full salvation is when we receive immortal bodies.

 

[Complete_In_Him]

We are not fully saved yet. Full salvation is when we receive immortal bodies.

Please, tighten that up for me as far as soul salvation is concerned, are you crucified with Christ by the power of God, from believing the gospel of your salvation in truth? This is the circumcision of Christ, by the faith and operation of God and how we receive the Spirit of life, this is our access to God and the point of no return, saved, my soul is saved right now, is yours?

 

[Magenta]

Circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit.