Is This a Hyper-Grace Doctrine of Men FORUM?

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1 Timothy 1:8-9 (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
 
Mitspa said:
Well your opinion is just that... and if you don't understand that legalism cuts off a believer from Christ? I doubt your ability to understand what grace is or is not? I debate biblical truth and sound doctrine based on the bible...not mans opinion.
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I should have been clearer. I do believe that trying to be justified by law cuts one off from Christ.
 
KennethC said:
Love, faith, content, meekness, longsuffering, joy, goodness...........

Still working on self-control but getting better thanks to the Holy Spirit, still working on peace to as sometimes I do get worried about things but again the Holy Spirit has helped me out a lot here as well.....
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I said keep ...not try to keep ...
 
KennethC said:
Again nobody is talking about the written ordinances of the Mosaic law, which is the whole context in Galatians !!!
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So is the law in Galatians different than the law in Romans and 2Cor?... Is Paul not speaking about the whole law when he says your not under the law..that you cant be justified by the law? Is the Ten commandments not the law?
 
Grace777x70 said:
self-effort is the basis of the whole law....which is why we can't keep it...only Jesus did it for us..
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Yep we all know we can't by ourselves keep the Law and specifically the moral law..but have been freed from the dominion of sin, not of sin (I know you agree to that). So we can with the Spirits help, keep the Moral law (synergistic) we are free to 'produce' fruit (good works ) Now thats grace. That I and you actuall can actually DO good works in Faith pleasing to our Father.
 
The self-righteousness/holiness D.I Y. mindset can be seen in the below quote...compliments of FreeNChrist..


"You may have harnessed the energy of the flesh in an otherwise quite genuine desire to honor the Lord Jesus in your life. The flesh, which has its origin in Satan, will go along with you; to survive, it is quite prepared to engage in every form of Christian activity, even though this may seem to honor Christ.

The flesh will sing in the choir, teach Sunday school, preside at a deacons’ meeting, preach from the pulpit, organize an evangelistic crusade, go to Bible college, volunteer for the mission field, and a thousand other things, all of which may in themselves be otherwise legitimate, if only it can keep its neck out of the noose. The flesh will threaten, shout, strut, domineer, sulk, plot, creep, beg, plead, or sob, whatever the situation may demand in the interests of its own survival. By any and all means it will seek to cause every Christian to live by his own strength instead of by the power and grace of the Lord Jesus, and to conclude that doing so is actually a good thing!

The characteristic of the spiritually immature is that they are unable to discern between good and evil (Hebrews 5:13-14), and the baby Christian, like the foolish Galatians, “having begun in the Spirit” still tries to be “made perfect by the flesh” (Galatians 3:3).

We must be particularly patient with those whose lack of understanding allows a genuine love for the Lord Jesus to be satisfied with, and sometimes to be quite enthusiastic about, Christian activities involving means and methods which are heavily contaminated by the flesh. These are more deserving of instruction than rebuke, for they are still in their spiritual babyhood.

.....The flesh will seek to produce the most plausible arguments in justification of its own illegitimate activities, even though these activities are only what the Bible calls “dead works” (Hebrews 6:1; 9:14) and not the “good works” which are truly the work of God.

“Good works” are those that have their origin in Jesus Christ, as Christ’s activity is released through your body because you present it to Him as a living sacrifice. You do this only by faith that expresses total dependence, as opposed to Adamic independence."



Major Ian Thomas: The Way Of The Flesh; from The Indwelling Life of Christ
 
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He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life.Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children.But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.
Rev 21:6-8

And the people said AMEN.
 
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Grace777x70 said:
The self-righteousness/holiness D.I Y. mindset can be seen in the below quote...compliments of FreeNChrist..


"You may have harnessed the energy of the flesh in an otherwise quite genuine desire to honor the Lord Jesus in your life. The flesh, which has its origin in Satan, will go along with you; to survive, it is quite prepared to engage in every form of Christian activity, even though this may seem to honor Christ.

The flesh will sing in the choir, teach Sunday school, preside at a deacons’ meeting, preach from the pulpit, organize an evangelistic crusade, go to Bible college, volunteer for the mission field, and a thousand other things, all of which may in themselves be otherwise legitimate, if only it can keep its neck out of the noose. The flesh will threaten, shout, strut, domineer, sulk, plot, creep, beg, plead, or sob, whatever the situation may demand in the interests of its own survival. By any and all means it will seek to cause every Christian to live by his own strength instead of by the power and grace of the Lord Jesus, and to conclude that doing so is actually a good thing!

The characteristic of the spiritually immature is that they are unable to discern between good and evil (Hebrews 5:13-14), and the baby Christian, like the foolish Galatians, “having begun in the Spirit” still tries to be “made perfect by the flesh” (Galatians 3:3).

We must be particularly patient with those whose lack of understanding allows a genuine love for the Lord Jesus to be satisfied with, and sometimes to be quite enthusiastic about, Christian activities involving means and methods which are heavily contaminated by the flesh. These are more deserving of instruction than rebuke, for they are still in their spiritual babyhood.

.....The flesh will seek to produce the most plausible arguments in justification of its own illegitimate activities, even though these activities are only what the Bible calls “dead works” (Hebrews 6:1; 9:14) and not the “good works” which are truly the work of God.

“Good works” are those that have their origin in Jesus Christ, as Christ’s activity is released through your body because you present it to Him as a living sacrifice. You do this only by faith that expresses total dependence, as opposed to Adamic independence."



Major Ian Thomas: The Way Of The Flesh; from The Indwelling Life of Christ
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wow that's excellent...got a link I can bookmark?
 
Mitspa said:
I said keep ...not try to keep ...
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I did list the ones I keep first, and then I listed the one's I struggle with still second !!!

Love because I have not given up on others and continue by the Holy Spirit's guidance to keep standing firm in His ways.

Faith because I stand firm in our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, and will not be shaken from him no matter what others say.

Content because I have learned in my falling and failure to be content with what I have, and not be covetous.

Meekness because I will always submit to His ways over what men say.

Longsuffering because I sit here and deal with all the insults and belittling of me by some, while trying to share His Truth.

Joy because I count it all joy the trials and tribulations the Lord has brought me through to learn and grow in His faith.

Goodness because I will always pray for all of you even if some of you don't like me.

I therefore know what I do and do not do in the Lord, and I will explain to you clearly so that you don't continue to jump into false understanding of thinking you know what I do and don't do in Christ !!!
 
Grace777x70 said:
self-effort is the basis of the whole law....which is why we can't keep it...only Jesus did it for us..
Click to expand...

If we are walking in Christ, we will do the righteousness required by the law.

  1. We won't have any other gods
  2. We won't be falling down to images
  3. We won't be honoring GOD with our lips while our heart is far away from him
  4. We will remember that GOD is sanctifying us and rest in his completed work
  5. We will honor our parents
  6. We won't murder
  7. We won't commit adultery
  8. We won't steal
  9. We won't bear false witness
  10. We won't be consumed with greed for the things of this world (covet)
 
I found in my life that no one can ever understand scripture correctly with unrepentant sin in their hearts. Even deep sin that may seem justifiable. For me I used to see all the wrong doing in the world and I didn't really love my enemies and even things like that can keep you from understanding the word correctly. Also you can not say that we do not have to continue in God's word and walk with Christ. You can not walk in the spirit if you do not walk in the spirit.
 
phil36 said:
Yep we all know we can't by ourselves keep the Law and specifically the moral law..but have been freed from the dominion of sin, not of sin (I know you agree to that). So we can with the Spirits help, keep the Moral law (synergistic) we are free to 'produce' fruit (good works ) Now thats grace. That I and you actuall can actually DO good works in Faith pleasing to our Father.
Click to expand...
You got scripture for your opinion? Because the bible teaches just the opposite of what your saying..that you cant be under the law and under grace ..and that the law produces sinful passions and desires...that none is "moral" no not one !
 
eternallife7 said:
I found in my life that no one can ever understand scripture correctly with unrepentant sin in their hearts. Even deep sin that may seem justifiable. For me I used to see all the wrong doing in the world and I didn't really love my enemies and even things like that can keep you from understanding the word correctly. Also you can not say that we do not have to continue in God's word and walk with Christ. You can not walk in the spirit if you do not walk in the spirit.
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Well they may be lots of truth in what your saying ..but the bible clearly teaches that legalism (the Ten Commandments..law of Moses) blinds people from seeing the truth of the gospel... you cant walk in the Spirit apart from understanding the gospel. You cant say walk in the Spirit and then you will understand the gospel ...it don't work that way.
 
Review Acts chapter 15 kjv, strong words in there. Subverting souls.

Pay attention to verse 28 "For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost"
 
Mitspa said:
So is the law in Galatians different than the law in Romans and 2Cor?... Is Paul not speaking about the whole law when he says your not under the law..that you cant be justified by the law? Is the Ten commandments not the law?
Click to expand...

Paul is speaking of the written ordinances of the Mosaic law when he says we are not under the law, he is not referring to the Moral law of God or also known as the Law of Liberty in Christ !!!

It would not make since for Paul to speak on the Moral as well when he also states by faith the law is established in our live, not voided. Also it would make a contradiction with Romans 13:9-10 if he was speaking of the Moral !!!
 
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
If we are walking in Christ, we will do the righteousness required by the law.

  1. We won't have any other gods
  2. We won't be falling down to images
  3. We won't be honoring GOD with our lips while our heart is far away from him
  4. We will remember that GOD is sanctifying us and rest in his completed work
  5. We will honor our parents
  6. We won't murder
  7. We won't commit adultery
  8. We won't steal
  9. We won't bear false witness
  10. We won't be consumed with greed for the things of this world (covet)
Click to expand...

All the law is fulfilled in one word...love .....you don't have to worry about keeping all those rules in the law ..if you have faith working by love ..you will by nature do those things in the law ,...not by the letter but by the Spirit.
 
Mitspa said:
You got scripture for your opinion? Because the bible teaches just the opposite of what your saying..that you cant be under the law and under grace ..and that the law produces sinful passions and desires...that none is "moral" no not one !
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I never said you/me/we are under law ;)
 
KennethC said:
Paul is speaking of the written ordinances of the Mosaic law when he says we are not under the law, he is not referring to the Moral law of God or also known as the Law of Liberty in Christ !!!

It would not make since for Paul to speak on the Moral as well when he also states by faith the law is established in our live, not voided. Also it would make a contradiction with Romans 13:9-10 if he was speaking of the Moral !!!
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what?
Ro 7:6 But now we have been discharged from the law, having died to that wherein we were held; so that we serve in newness of the spirit, and not in oldness of the letter.
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Howbeit, I had not known sin, except through the law: for I had not known coveting, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet:


No ....all things written in the book of the law...every jot and tittle ... Its heresy to teach the law is "broken" into parts.
 
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