Are You Pro-Life?

[Mitspa]

Far as I know the US is the only civilized, western country uphelding the CP. Why is that? Is it a treat from good old vigilante law? Last time I checked 32 out of 50 states were carrying out the CP. What are we gaining by putting people to death? Every time a judge is handing down a CP, well it ignites decades and decades and then a decade of petitions, motions, appeals etc etc. Lord knows how much tax payers are spending on appeals. A life term without parol is forgotten instantly and the killer will stay incarcerated to the end...no appeals. Point is, the states are spending so much money on this ancient punishment, money that could have been spent better.

Its the peoples money..if they want to spend the extra money to keep CP? Then that's on them ... I think the expense issue is fair ..but in the end the decision belongs to the people ..and to frame it as immoral or against Gods will, is just unbiblical. To frame it as a issue about what other western countries don't do? Well who cares what other western countries do? I don't get that argument ? Most Americans don't give two hoots about these other liberal countries or their opinions on right and wrong.

 

[Mitspa]

Why must you place the blame on God for the mistakes and wrong doings that men do ???

I get so tired of people making statements like this as if it would be God's or the Lord's fault for the wrongs people do !!!

I will repeat this again that the Lord Jesus clearly taught how we are to treat others, and if we take this passage in Romans 13 to override that, then it is our understanding that is wrong on what is said there !!!

If you want to support a system that is now corrupt, does not care about truth, and puts people behind bars that are innocent or have not been proven guilty of anything yet that is your choice. But I will out of love warn you about being so judgmental over other people's lives, and deciding the life and death on another that the Lord Jesus says we are to leave up to Him !!!

Our war is not over flesh and blood, it is over sin and those who would corrupt the Word of God for their own personal gain, recognition, and power !!!

I do believe the bible, I just don't believe this nonsense of using God's word to inflict our own personal vendetta's and vengeance on another. That is a hate doctrine !!!

God is not making any excuses ..nor am I ... This is Gods evident Word and it cannot be challenged. Clearly it is Gods will that Capital Punishment be established as a form of earthly justice.

 

[Mitspa]

Ill just say this..when I see folks who don't or has not defended the life of innocent babies ..then they start talking about the lives of convicted killers and rapist.. I doubt they are really being moved by the compassion of Christ, but most likely the political correctness that has perverted our whole society.

 

[Dino246]

Euthenasia is permitted in my state as it should be. ...
The same with abortion. Do I feel it's immoral? Yes, but like another Christian leader former mayor Rudy Guilani said, let the government stay out of peoples buinsess. It's not up to the Hillary Clinton to deciede when life begins. Not everyone in the US is a Christian, let people deciede for themselves and God will punish those that make the wrong decision.

There are two issues with euthanasia in Canada, the same two with abortion. As euthanasia is getting pushed through by people who hold similar views to yours, there is also a push to vilify medical professionals who want no part in it. The liberal agenda is trying to remove the right of doctors to say, "I won't kill my patient, or do anything which would lead directly to their death." Instead of merely allowing some doctors to perform the killing, the liberals want to force all doctors to do it.

The other issue, as Angela ably noted above, is that there is an extremely fine line between allowing or assisting the suffering to end their lives, and making the decision for someone whose abilities are compromised. It's the devil's foot in the door.

With abortion, it's an untenable dodge to simply avoid deciding when life begins. It's still murder. The only difference is the location of the human being murdered. Yes, God will deal with those who make the wrong decision, just as He will with other murderers. Simply saying "we should let everyone decide for themselves" is naive; God will also judge those who look the other way and pretend no responsibility for the slaughter.

 

[jennymae]

According to Scripture, is our Heavenly Father for, or is He against, capital punishment?

Well, I'm sure there's a lot of Scripture that allegedly supports Capital Punishment, but I think every interpretation of Scripture depends on how much the interpretator is twisting the words.

 

[KimPetras]

Haven't read anything other than the OP so maybe this has already been mentioned, but your heading is misleading; Pro-Life is actually defined as the opposition to Abortion and Euthanasia. The OP would probably argue that being Pro-Life should = being against all taking of life, however the term "pro-life" already has this definition so another term would have to be used when speaking about being opposed to capital punishment.

Fighting for "life" is not misleading when talking about the death penalty. I disagree with your opinion that a group of people already "claimed" the term "pro-life". No one can own words... especially when used appropriately/in the correct context.

 

[KimPetras]

Well, I'm sure there's a lot of Scripture that allegedly supports Capital Punishment, but I think every interpretation of Scripture depends on how much the interpretator is twisting the words.

Here is the thing that pro-death people don't want to discuss about Romans 13 and Jesus.

Paul: Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord. (Romans 12:19)

Clearly, Paul is encouraging us not to take it upon our imperfect and unclean hands to avenge someone but rather allow God, who is perfect and all-knowing, to "repay" what was wronged. Using wisdom, we know it's unwise to let such people free back into society, so rather than taking a life of someone who may even be innocent, locking them up and throwing away the key seems to follow this scripture while simultaneously protecting the rest of society.

Jesus: But go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners." (Matthew 9:13)

Jesus: "Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her." This was when Jesus stopped the execution of the adulterous woman.

Clearly, Jesus believes in love and mercy more than He recognized the government like Romans 13 says. When the government we are suppose to submit to goes against Jesus, why wouldn't we choose Jesus? Jesus is perfect, our government isn't.

Lastly, Romans 13:4 "For the one in authority is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God's servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer."

Today, we can replace "sword" with "gun". Law enforcement officers, equipped with guns, do in fact arrest "wrongdoers" so they can be brought fourth "punishment" until the guilty. This passage doesn't give authority to cops for shooting any "wrongdoer" though! All Romans 13:4 is saying is that God wants us to recognize the authority the government has over it's citizens. Once again, did the government not legally execute Jesus Christ? Was he not innocent? God granted authority to Pilot to execute him, this does not mean that Pilot or Judas Iscariot is innocent for sentencing Jesus to die!

When man's laws conflict with God's laws, we as Christians have to recognize and honor God's sovereignty over man's. If believers that believe Romans 13:4 explicitly grants governments authority that express the will of God, then I ask, why be opposed to the US Supreme Court which ruled for marriage equality for all, including homosexuals? Does this principle not go against God's teachings? But you still argue that God ordained the government and we shouldn't ever go against it when it conflicts with what God or Jesus said

 

[KimPetras]

I'll just say this... when I see folks who only care for a life before it's born and in the same breath are pro-death penalty even when the person is potentially innocent, I doubt they are really "pro-life". They want vengeance to be in man's hands rather than in God's. They want an excuse for not showing mercy and love, but for retaliating in a carnal manner.

 

[Mitspa]

We have abortions clinics killing babies by the millions ...Is protecting criminals the big issue in our society?

 

[KennethC]

God is not making any excuses ..nor am I ... This is Gods evident Word and it cannot be challenged. Clearly it is Gods will that Capital Punishment be established as a form of earthly justice.

No what you are doing is reading something into that Romans 13 passage that is not there, and thus trying to say this is what God said. That my friend is dangerous to do !!!

We can not take a passage from the bible and make it contradict Jesus other teachings, when you do that that shows it is your understanding that is wrong.

Jesus said we are to show LOVE, MERCY, and FORGIVENESS to all people, and He clearly stated we are to do good and pray for our enemies.

We are called to minister to those in prison, not decide life and death over them !!!

When standing in front of our Lord at judgment, I don't know about you, but I don't want Him asking why I didn't have mercy on and forgive others !!!

 

[Mitspa]

No what you are doing is reading something into that Romans 13 passage that is not there, and thus trying to say this is what God said. That my friend is dangerous to do !!!

We can not take a passage from the bible and make it contradict Jesus other teachings, when you do that that shows it is your understanding that is wrong.

Jesus said we are to show LOVE, MERCY, and FORGIVENESS to all people, and He clearly stated we are to do good and pray for our enemies.

We are called to minister to those in prison, not decide life and death over them !!!

When standing in front of our Lord at judgment, I don't know about you, but I don't want Him asking why I didn't have mercy on and forgive others !!!

Any honest person can read it and see that it clearly upholds capital punishment ... I suggest you get right with God and then read it again.

 

[KimPetras]

No what you are doing is reading something into that Romans 13 passage that is not there, and thus trying to say this is what God said. That my friend is dangerous to do !!!

We can not take a passage from the bible and make it contradict Jesus other teachings, when you do that that shows it is your understanding that is wrong.

Jesus said we are to show LOVE, MERCY, and FORGIVENESS to all people, and He clearly stated we are to do good and pray for our enemies.

We are called to minister to those in prison, not decide life and death over them !!!

When standing in front of our Lord at judgment, I don't know about you, but I don't want Him asking why I didn't have mercy on and forgive others !!!

I often wonder if people do that intentionally so that they create a superficial justification for their own personal beliefs that they know very well contradict the word of God, or if they are just misunderstanding and misinterpreting the scripture.

I give people the benefit of the doubt and just assume they are misinterpreting, but sometimes I wonder.

 

[KennethC]

I'll just say this... when I see folks who only care for a life before it's born and in the same breath are pro-death penalty even when the person is potentially innocent, I doubt they are really "pro-life". They want vengeance to be in man's hands rather than in God's. They want an excuse for not showing mercy and love, but for retaliating in a carnal manner.

In response to post #227..........

The other thing that pro-death penalty don't want to look at, or should say over look is two passages from the Lord Jesus Himself:

First one)

Matthew 5:38........Here Jesus refers back to the Law of eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, death for a death in Exodus 21:24, but Jesus clearly says "NO" to this !!!

Second one)

John 8:1-11........Women caught in adultery

By the Mosaic law one caught in adultery was to be put to death on the testimony of 2 to 3 witnesses, and when she was brought by a group of others before Jesus to see what He would say.

Jesus showed that none of them had the right to make this judgment on her because they also were all guilty of sin to !!!

"He who is without sin cast the first stone"

Those who believe in the death penalty are still casting stones at others for their sin, when they themselves are guilty in the eyes of God of sin !!!

 

[KennethC]

Any honest person can read it and see that it clearly upholds capital punishment ... I suggest you get right with God and then read it again.

No if you take that as saying believers should uphold capital punishment then you make it contradict Jesus teachings !!!

See post #233 about what Jesus said about upholding capital punishment by the Law !!!

I often wonder if people do that intentionally so that they create a superficial justification for their own personal beliefs that they know very well contradict the word of God, or if they are just misunderstanding and misinterpreting the scripture.

I give people the benefit of the doubt and just assume they are misinterpreting, but sometimes I wonder.

This is why the Apostle Paul's writings need to be used carefully because even though they may seem to say one thing if it contradicts what Jesus said then that can't be what was said.

Apostle Peter even warned about how easily Paul's writings can be misunderstood and thus misused !!!

We should always go back to what the Lord said to get proper understanding, and in two places as I showed in post #233 Jesus clearly said no to making such judgments on others !!!

 

[Mitspa]

No if you take that as saying believers should uphold capital punishment then you make it contradict Jesus teachings !!!

See post #233 about what Jesus said about upholding capital punishment by the Law !!!






This is why the Apostle Paul's writings need to be used carefully because even though they may seem to say one thing if it contradicts what Jesus said then that can't be what was said.

Apostle Peter even warned about how easily Paul's writings can be misunderstood and thus misused !!!

We should always go back to what the Lord said to get proper understanding, and in two places as I showed in post #233 Jesus clearly said no to making such judgments on others !!!

Of course it don't contradict jesus teachings...how does the bible contradict Jesus ? The contradiction is in your desire to pretend to serve God and promote liberal PC nonsense ...you cannot serve God and man

 

[Mitspa]

my goodness ..some criminal who rapes and kills ..might not be treated gentle enough

While millions of innocent babies are slaughtered and sold for parts....

 

[KennethC]

Of course it don't contradict jesus teachings...how does the bible contradict Jesus ? The contradiction is in your desire to pretend to serve God and promote liberal PC nonsense ...you cannot serve God and man

Look at post #233, why do you continue to deny the two times Jesus said no to the death penalty from the law ???

 

[Mitspa]

Look at post #233, why do you continue to deny the two times Jesus said no to the death penalty from the law ???

That's the law of Moses and pertains to those who have found grace in Christ...not the legal system of man which is clearly ordained and upheld by God...do you think God and Paul was confused when he wrote Romans 13?

 

[jennymae]

I don't think using the PC label is doing any good. I am opposed to the death penalty because I don't think that is what Jesus would have done. I think what you call liberals would not accept my thoughts on how things should be. I am a conservative myself, and being opposed to barbaric ways of carrying out justice clearly doesn't make me a liberal.

 

[KennethC]

That's the law of Moses and pertains to those who have found grace in Christ...not the legal system of man which is clearly ordained and upheld by God...do you think God and Paul was confused when he wrote Romans 13?

That's God's law !!!


The Law of Moses supported the death penalty in it, as it had God's life for a life in it !!!

Jesus in the New Covenant teachings that He brought forth said no to those death penalty punishments from the Law.

If He said no to the death penalty of His own written Law that He gave through Moses, then that same no would apply to any other law as well !!!

You still want to ignore that Jesus showed no to the death penalty in those two passages, if He was for it then He would have let it be carried out in both instances; But He didn't !!!