Stupid things 'Christians' do

[PeterJens]

The things you said about 'the hypergrace people' are wrong. You should meet my mom who's totally into Andrew Wommack and Joseph Prince and watch her fruit.

There is a problem here. Some individuals glow. They take what is given and pick out the good, and ignore the rest. It does not mean it is ok or not destructive. I have met some very nice athiests, muslims, JW's, Mormons but it does not make what they believe sensible or right.

What I am commenting on is the people here and their reaction. It is not a question of being wrong, I am just sharing what has happened.

Jack Frost is preaching a real truth about love and relationship compared to attempting to do things for God.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mduqKbBaWak

Sadly he died in 2007.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

The things you said about 'the hypergrace people' are wrong. You should meet my mom who's totally into Andrew Wommack and Joseph Prince and watch her fruit.

Some people just filter out the bad. That doesn't mean that what they're teaching isn't wrong and deadly for many others.

 

[coby]

Some people just filter out the bad. That doesn't mean that what they're teaching isn't wrong and deadly for many others.

Well I know someone who is very fond of Prince and is still addicted to porn and thinks grace covers it. That's why I don't like his teachings. Warning him for Prince's teachings didn't help though, so I just help him by giving him other teachings and praying for him.

 

[PeterJens]

Well I know someone who is very fond of Prince and is still addicted to porn and thinks grace covers it. That's why I don't like his teachings. Warning him for Prince's teachings didn't help though, so I just help him by giving him other teachings and praying for him.

Coby,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCtX-9AG0IU

Jack Frost is talking about storge love. It is an important issue about how love is shut out.
Walking in victory is about walking in love, and many do not have this experience even though they walk with Jesus.

This may help you, I do not know.

Certainly some of what he is sharing I agree with, and is an area many cannot equate what they experience in church and how much deeper walking with the father is.

 

[KennethC]

I'd have to say, "Almost never." That stuff is to be done in love with intent to restore. Show me one ounce of love in ANY of those vile videos you guys search out to post. They are fairly seething with hate, and are only intended to ridicule and shame individuals.

I posted a video that clearly shows inappropriate behavior from one claiming to be a minister for God.

Go back and look and watch that man in the video I posted.........

He cusses during his sermons, seen him with half naked girls in his choir, and does a number of other things that is completely in appropriate.

If you want to defend such a person, rather then expose their wrongful behavior to others, go right on ahead !!!

 

[KennethC]

Doesn't that mean you have to talk to the one making the mistake? How is this rebuking and reproving if the people you are reproving never see this?

Who is to say they aren't being rebuked and reproved for what they are doing ???

Also we are to expose them in front of others so that they don't fall into the trap of following what they are doing as approved by God.

We are all part of one body and are required to help out each part and make sure the whole body is functioning properly, if there is even one member not working properly the whole body is to blame. Because we are called as overseers of the rest, therefore if we just sit back and let this inappropriate behavior continue we are to blame as well !!!

People think God's grace only consists of nice words, but His grace also contains warnings to correct and restore us !!!

 

[KennethC]

It's not. It just satisfies their thirst for trying to hurt others. And they hurt far more than their intended victims; they hurt innocent "seekers" every day, driving them from God.

Did you know the Word of God says you will be held accountable if you don't warn the rest of the flock about false teaching ???

"LOVE"

The problem with that word is that some of you think that means we always need to say things the other will like to hear, but the issue with that is that God's Word shows tough love to.

Tough love if you have never heard that statement means that sometimes you have to tell them things they won't like, and even go as far as shun them if they don't listen !!!

It would not be love to leave such people teaching falsely or living inappropriately unchecked, and not exposed to others who are or would blindly follow them as teaching Truth.

The exposing on here is not for rebuking and reproving them, it is to expose the things they are doing that is wrong for you and others to see so that you don't follow them by example and be drawn in the same sinful behaviors !!!


You are completely wrong in what you are saying here, because those who are hurting seekers is those who draw them into false teaching. False teaching only leads to one place and it is not eternal life through Christ !!!

Exposing false teaching brings people to the Truth, not away from God !!!

 

[PeterJens]

Stupid things people do :

I have seen ministers who claim God can do miracles, see people healed when prayed for, but when they fall ill, it is no longer the Lords will, it is satan taking the life away of a man of God, who without their vision the people will perish.

We are born, we live, we die.

I have seen a letter where one minister lists all the issues, and requests

· Command my body to come in line with the Word of God:
· Command the spirit of cancer and death to cease its attack against me.
· Command the cancer to dry up at its root and to dissolve and for all unhealthy cells to flush out of my body.
· Forbid the cancer to grow or spread within my body. It is an illegal alien and has no legal right to weaken my body. My body is God's resting place not cancer's!
· Command unhealthy fluid that is trying to build up on my lungs to dry up and be gone.
· Command the cancer cells not to multiply nor metastasize anywhere else in my body.
· Command the healthy cells to multiply and displace unhealthy cells.
· Command the lungs to receive the fire of God to burn away the enemy's fire attacking my lungs.
· Command the lungs that a fresh wind of the Spirit fill my lungs and that I be able to breathe deeply and fill my lungs with the breath of God.
· Command a spirit of witchcraft and jealousy to cease its attack. (see Isaiah 54:17)
· Command my body to tread upon the lion and cobra of cancer and to fulfill the Word of God by my being satisfied with long life. (see Psalm 91:13, 16)
· Command my body not to die but to live so that I can declare the works of the Lord to all the nations. (see Psalm 118:17)

This theology is simply wrong.

Jesus loves us and will call us home.
Is it not better to go and be with Him and just submit to His timing?

All the people who prayed and prophesied about healing, and visions were wrong. Their desire to bless someone, to see intervention, a testimony, did not happen. The Lord will not intervene to support heresy, will not fulfill human desire over His soveriegn will.

The Lord allows us to run off down roads, think things, build great palaces, but still He will call us home.

 

[coby]

Stupid things people do :

I have seen ministers who claim God can do miracles, see people healed when prayed for, but when they fall ill, it is no longer the Lords will, it is satan taking the life away of a man of God, who without their vision the people will perish.

We are born, we live, we die.

I have seen a letter where one minister lists all the issues, and requests

· Command my body to come in line with the Word of God:
· Command the spirit of cancer and death to cease its attack against me.
· Command the cancer to dry up at its root and to dissolve and for all unhealthy cells to flush out of my body.
· Forbid the cancer to grow or spread within my body. It is an illegal alien and has no legal right to weaken my body. My body is God's resting place not cancer's!
· Command unhealthy fluid that is trying to build up on my lungs to dry up and be gone.
· Command the cancer cells not to multiply nor metastasize anywhere else in my body.
· Command the healthy cells to multiply and displace unhealthy cells.
· Command the lungs to receive the fire of God to burn away the enemy's fire attacking my lungs.
· Command the lungs that a fresh wind of the Spirit fill my lungs and that I be able to breathe deeply and fill my lungs with the breath of God.
· Command a spirit of witchcraft and jealousy to cease its attack. (see Isaiah 54:17)
· Command my body to tread upon the lion and cobra of cancer and to fulfill the Word of God by my being satisfied with long life. (see Psalm 91:13, 16)
· Command my body not to die but to live so that I can declare the works of the Lord to all the nations. (see Psalm 118:17)

This theology is simply wrong.

Jesus loves us and will call us home.
Is it not better to go and be with Him and just submit to His timing?

All the people who prayed and prophesied about healing, and visions were wrong. Their desire to bless someone, to see intervention, a testimony, did not happen. The Lord will not intervene to support heresy, will not fulfill human desire over His soveriegn will.

The Lord allows us to run off down roads, think things, build great palaces, but still He will call us home.

This way of praying is good and if you have enough faith like Wigglesworth you can even get a dead person back with the authority God gave you, but it's smart to listen to Him if it's someone's time. Wighlesworth raised his wife from the dead for the second time, but God said it was her time and he had to let her go. You can't know if it was satan or God if you don't ask Him. Saying it is always God's will if someone dies is the same mistake as saying it was always the devil.

 

[secondtimearound]

Well I know someone who is very fond of Prince and is still addicted to porn and thinks grace covers it. That's why I don't like his teachings. Warning him for Prince's teachings didn't help though, so I just help him by giving him other teachings and praying for him.

I was watching Prince one day and heard him address this. His major point was that even though we're born again that our minds have not yet been renewed. So when we find ourselves caught in a sinful act/behavior, we should vocalize "I am the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus". I think that's an exact quote? Its been awhile and I only saw this once. "Say it and just keep on saying it.", he said.

The point seemed to be that as our minds become renewed then sinful behaviors will go away. The thing that triggered this memory from your post is that I recall him saying to do this even when watching porn. Which caught my attention when I heard it! Of course, why should a 'less sinful' sin be any different. Really... why???

Still, while this approach gives me the creeps, if it reduces the sin in a believers life then I am not ready to condemn it outright.

So while I do not go around telling people to "just keep sinning and declare this truth and everything will be just fine" I am not convinced enough that some level of the renewing of the mind (with accompanying improvements in behavior) might well occur in such a manner.

 

[secondtimearound]

Who is to say they aren't being rebuked and reproved for what they are doing ???

Hello KennethC. I am going to say that they aren't being rebuked and reproved for what they are doing. At least not here. And not by you. You're gossiping and slandering them without approaching them directly as your response seems to suggest IS the appropriate Christian behavior.

Also we are to expose them in front of others so that they don't fall into the trap of following what they are doing as approved by God.

We are all part of one body and are required to help out each part and make sure the whole body is functioning properly, if there is even one member not working properly the whole body is to blame. Because we are called as overseers of the rest, therefore if we just sit back and let this inappropriate behavior continue we are to blame as well !!!

People think God's grace only consists of nice words, but His grace also contains warnings to correct and restore us !!!

see above

 

[secondtimearound]

Coby,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCtX-9AG0IU

Jack Frost is talking about storge love. It is an important issue about how love is shut out.
Walking in victory is about walking in love, and many do not have this experience even though they walk with Jesus.

This may help you, I do not know.

Certainly some of what he is sharing I agree with, and is an area many cannot equate what they experience in church and how much deeper walking with the father is.

Thanks for these video resources PeterJens. Grace unto you.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I was watching Prince one day and heard him address this. His major point was that even though we're born again that our minds have not yet been renewed. So when we find ourselves caught in a sinful act/behavior, we should vocalize "I am the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus". I think that's an exact quote? Its been awhile and I only saw this once. "Say it and just keep on saying it.", he said.

The point seemed to be that as our minds become renewed then sinful behaviors will go away. The thing that triggered this memory from your post is that I recall him saying to do this even when watching porn. Which caught my attention when I heard it! Of course, why should a 'less sinful' sin be any different. Really... why???

Still, while this approach gives me the creeps, if it reduces the sin in a believers life then I am not ready to condemn it outright.

So while I do not go around telling people to "just keep sinning and declare this truth and everything will be just fine" I am not convinced enough that some level of the renewing of the mind (with accompanying improvements in behavior) [/FONT][/COLOR]might well occur in such a manner.

That's exactly what they say, and that is exactly what keeps them in bondage. We overcome sin by seeing who Christ is through faith and acknowledging who we are are (corrupt). We are not the righteousness of GOD, only Christ is. Theirs' is an identity 'faith' in which you identify with what you want to be, and name it and claim it. The 'grace' movement is simply a syncretism of OSAS and Word of Faith teachings in order to amass followers and $ell books.

 

[secondtimearound]

That's exactly what they say, and that is exactly what keeps them in bondage. We overcome sin by seeing who Christ is through faith and acknowledging who we are are (corrupt). We are not the righteousness of GOD, only Christ is. Theirs' is an identity 'faith' in which you identify with what you want to be, and name it and claim it. The 'grace' movement is simply a syncretism of OSAS and Word of Faith teachings in order to amass followers and $ell books.

[SUP]20 [/SUP]Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
[SUP]23 [/SUP]For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Romans 3:20-24

I am confident that I am missing something here, so please help me see more clearly.

How can I even approach God in my sins without the righteousness (and blood... @Sproul... LOL) of Christ covering me?

We overcome sin by seeing who Christ is through faith and acknowledging who we are are (corrupt)..

Isn't this how we become born again? Not that its usefulness stops there!

I am confident that you know that I know that I am corrupt.

That's exactly what they say...

I agree. Let it be established among two or more witnesses. My goal here was to bring as much exposure, and context, as possible to what is being done so that it could be evaluated more accurately using the Word of God. As mentioned, I don't go around actively propagating this thinking. But am not yet fully convinced it is unquestionably wrong.

Blessings.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

[SUP]22 [/SUP]Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
I am confident that I am missing something here, so please help me see more clearly.
How can I even approach God in my sins without the righteousness (and blood... @Sproul... LOL) of Christ covering me?

I think if you do a word search, you will find that the bible nowhere says that we are the righteousness of GOD in Christ. I'm pretty sure that it only says that we are becoming the righteousness of GOD in Christ. Big difference. The former is an identity affirmation (new age) that creates a certain state of mind, whereas the latter is a sanctification process that leads to perfection (the righteousness of GOD in Christ). Let me know if you find differently about the search.

Isn't this how we become born again? Not that its usefulness stops there!

Therefore as you received Christ Jesus the Lord, walk in him: Colossians 2:6

I agree. Let it be established among two or more witnesses. My goal here was to bring as much exposure, and context, as possible to what is being done so that it could be evaluated more accurately using the Word of God. As mentioned, I don't go around actively propagating this thinking. But am not yet fully convinced it is unquestionably wrong.

Freedom from sin comes through receiving ability through the spirit to overcome iniquity that we acknowledge, not through maintaining a certain state of mind through positive affirmation.

 

[secondtimearound]

The 'grace' movement is simply a syncretism of OSAS and Word of Faith teachings in order to amass followers and $ell books.

I am not going to lay it all on just the grace movement, but the sham marketing and prostituting of the greatest message ever sent to mankind is rampant, wide spread, egregious and horribly offensive. And it is only going to get worse. Its awful HeRoseFromTheGrave... just AWFUL! It makes my soul ache.

I'll never try to defend much of the buffoonery that is present in this modern day circus on tv and elsewhere.

I'm focused on doctrine.

 

[secondtimearound]

I think if you do a word search, you will find that the bible nowhere says that we are the righteousness of GOD in Christ. I'm pretty sure that it only says that we are becoming the righteousness of GOD in Christ. Big difference. The former is an identity affirmation (new age) that creates a certain state of mind, whereas the latter is a sanctification process that leads to perfection (the righteousness of GOD in Christ). Let me know if you find differently about the search.


Therefore as you received Christ Jesus the Lord, walk in him: Colossians 2:6



Freedom from sin comes through receiving ability through the spirit to overcome iniquity that we acknowledge, not through maintaining a certain state of mind through positive affirmation.

Thanks. I guess that I saw it as a means of reminding one's self of the things you stated above.

 

[coby]

I was watching Prince one day and heard him address this. His major point was that even though we're born again that our minds have not yet been renewed. So when we find ourselves caught in a sinful act/behavior, we should vocalize "I am the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus". I think that's an exact quote? Its been awhile and I only saw this once. "Say it and just keep on saying it.", he said.

The point seemed to be that as our minds become renewed then sinful behaviors will go away. The thing that triggered this memory from your post is that I recall him saying to do this even when watching porn. Which caught my attention when I heard it! Of course, why should a 'less sinful' sin be any different. Really... why???

Still, while this approach gives me the creeps, if it reduces the sin in a believers life then I am not ready to condemn it outright.

So while I do not go around telling people to "just keep sinning and declare this truth and everything will be just fine" I am not convinced enough that some level of the renewing of the mind (with accompanying improvements in behavior) might well occur in such a manner.

I heard a testimony of a guy who said this every time he smoked a cigarette and not much later he stopped. It's good to confess that until you believe it, but if that goes on for years I think you just need a good preaching that brings conviction and that demon kicked out. One guy on another forum tried to stop for years and fasted and prayed, then he gave up and God said: With this I am well pleased. You can't do it. He had to confess that he died and rose with Christ and was completely set free. Didn't even get deliverance prayer. It both works, but if one thing doesn't work it's handy that there are more ministries.

 

[Willie-T]

What a joke. These people need to be exposed for the charlatans they are. They are doing great damage to the body of Christ and embarrassing the kingdom of GOD. It seems the only people who are whining about that are their apologists like yourself.

For just as it is written, “The name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.” Romans 2:24​

Decades ago, I developed a habit that seems to be foreign to many here. For instance, when you post a Scripture reference, I open it up. BUT I seldom read it as my first interest. I go, usually, to the top of the chapter to see whom this is being addressed to, and then I read the many verses that precede the one you posted.

It often shows that the true meaning of the verse posted is totally opposite of your intent to make it sound.

In this case, especially, I would suggest you try this. (It's Romans 2)

First of all, you will find this is addressed to "those of you who judge." That would include judging Grace Preachers. Then if you keep reading every verse until you get to the one you wanted to make out to be talking to Grace Believers.... you might want to stop, and go back and read the verse JUST BEFORE 24..... That would be 23. (Strange, but Scripture seems to work that way.)

There, you will find that things get a bit more specific. That verse is directly talking to those who boast in keeping the law. And, the verse you quoted tells those people (Specifically, you, from what you tell us about all your "obeying.") that it is THEM who blaspheme the name of God among the Gentiles.

And, "No", even your cohorts do not buy your claim of never sinning, so that verse means you...... NOT people who admit that, despite trying, they still break commandments all the time.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

[video=youtube;FMlKLDBxyS0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMlKLDBxyS0[/video]