A believer is not sinless., A believer is guiltless...

[Grace777x70]

Romans 5:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

has been poured out = perfect passive = this means it is an act of the past which it's effects carry on continuously in the present in a completed state - the passive part means that it is being done to us..not us doing it..
1 John 4:13 (NASB)

[SUP]13 [/SUP] By this we know that we abide in Him and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit.

1 John 4:19 (NASB)

[SUP]19 [/SUP] We love, because He first loved us.


The more we know the love of God for us - the more His love in us will flow out to those around us. We need to have our minds re-newed to the truth of who we are in Christ because of our new creation in Christ.

 

[ladylynn]

Thank you Lynn, that is very sweet of you, and
I appreciate it very much and return the sentiment

((((((((((((HUG))))))))))))))

You know I have always appreciated what you share here,
and more than that, the heart with which you share it.

I know I am powerless over what others do. If they want to lie and misrepresent themselves while they misrepresent others that is their business, but neither does it mean I am to sit idly by in silence forever while they do it. We are actually called to correct others, those within the church, when they are out of line (as described). Hugs are nice but at the same time it does not address any of the pertinent issues. They are not necessarily yours to answer to, either, though, so all is well. I know the other person may never address them either, and that is okay too. It would be good if they stopped, though. It is not like others are blind to their offenses. Maybe only they are.

Thank you very much for your kind words Magenta. You're a sweetie! It can get tense here sometimes when we are trying to put our thoughts and beliefs (and feelings) into words. Many times I've missed the mark and caused people to totally misunderstand me. Just hate when that happens. And sometimes we really do have to take off the gloves and realize we are -each one- not the enemy here.

Everyone of us believers in this Bible study forum wants to share their faith and learn and fellowship with other believers. And also we hope that the Gospel is going out to some people who might find CC. The written word is an amazing way to be able to do it here. The people we meet from all over the world and to think we can do this from our own living rooms or offices!!! There's bound to be misunderstandings. We have to ((((((HUG)))))))) once in a while.

There are a lot of things to observe about people who post here on CC on a regular basis. They post in different rooms and share things I totally would never have known or guessed they are going through. Showing a side of themselves they don't in the Bible study forum. We all seem so strong and opinionated here. It really took me off guard and caused a major stepping back and taking down of my previous defensive walls of anger or annoyance of them. They were actually kind and loving. (shocker) lol And then all the things that mattered in our doctrinal differences were melted away in comparison.

 

[ladylynn]

John 12:46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.

But,

1 John 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth

And because,

1 John 2:9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.

It's really important when we read these amazing verses to see them in proper context to our standing IN Christ. All believers are ALWAYS IN the light.


Our identity is not based on 'how' we walk it is based on 'where' Christ has placed us IN righteous standing...where do we walk now? Our identity is found in WHERE we are IN Christ. Just like we were walking in sin and death and judgment and wrath before Jesus saved us.... now we are walking in righteousness and holiness now that Jesus has saved us and given us sonship. Our POSITION has totally changed.

We as believers are children of light because He has placed us there. IN Christ there is NO darkness. We are walking IN our position in Christ and seen that way always by God now. Again, a major reason we believers need to keep coming back to who we are IN Christ. "your sins and lawless deeds I will remember NO MORE" why?? because we are SEEN IN Christ and are no longer guilty.

In Adam all are seen as sinners despite any good works the unsaved man does. He cannot do righteous because he is unrighteous. All his works are filthy rags.,even if he saves thousands of people and lives a selfless life, without Jesus and the gift or righteousness IMPUTED to him, that man goes to hell. Because that man's identity is IN Adam. He is a sinner.

We sin BECAUSE we are sinners...We are not sinners BECAUSE we sin. We needed to be made righteous before we can be called saints and sons. There is no such thing as a Sinner who is Righteous.

It's all about who you are now IN Christ. A Christian sins but he is not a sinner. That is why "A Believer is not sinless A believer is guiltless".

Take a few minutes to read and think about this. Where you're standing is IN Christ, IS what identifies you. Not what you DO.

 

[ladylynn]

The life of Jesus manifesting sounds like possesion and not transformation or the sense of becoming or obeying or following Jesus.

No where is scripture are christian called to manifest the life of Jesus. We are called to walk in the spirit, live by loving people. It implies you just become something rather than there is a choice of the will involved.

People often use the word he manifested a demon that just appeared and took him over. Now I oppose the concept that walking in the Spirit is anything like the occult or possession. My experience of the Lord is he inspires and directs but the believer does the action. If you think it is otherwise have you any scriptural examples of this?

Just looked up the word manifest.,manifestation...manifested....manifestly... in the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible... and there are TONS of places we are to manifest the life of Christ.

The word "manifest" in the dictionary says: Clearly apparent to the sight or understanding; Obvious ...to show or demonstrate plainly; reveal 2. to be evidence of; Prove. 3.a. To record in a ships manifest. b. To display or present a manifest of cargo. 1. A list of cargo or passengers. 2. A list of railroad cars according to owner and location.

Manifestation... the act of manifesting or state of being manifested. b Demonstration of the existence, reality or presence of a person, object or quality.. manifestation of their best intentions... one of the forms in which one is a divine being, and individual or an idea is revealed .2. a public political demonstration.

The word "manifest" is very clear and specific especially for the believer and what we are called to do.

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

It's really important when we read these amazing verses to see them in proper context to our standing IN Christ....

I do just that, and John shows that well. Thanks

 

[coby]

Guiltless because the sin is done away

 

[Cruisyazz]

To me guiltless people are children or at least child like. Knowing sin makes a sin a sin I think.

 

[planitsoon]

lol, "grace" believers, this labeling is, of course, in stark contrast to all "law" workers...or can we call them "law" believers?

 

[blue_ladybug]

If a believer is NOT sinless, or without sin, then HOW can they be guiltless, or without guilt? That would require having no conscience at all. Even believers DO sin, and most DO feel guilt.

 

[psychomom]

If a believer is NOT sinless, or without sin, then HOW can they be guiltless, or without guilt? That would require having no conscience at all. Even believers DO sin, and most DO feel guilt.

this is right, and that's why the faithful children of Israel were called blameless.
i believe this was already pointed out in the early pages of the thread.

i'd hope all Christians feel guilt. it's knowing what to do with that feeling that matters.

ps-- i love you, bluebug

 

[blue_ladybug]

this is right, and that's why the faithful children of Israel were called blameless.
i believe this was already pointed out in the early pages of the thread.

i'd hope all Christians feel guilt. it's knowing what to do with that feeling that matters.

ps-- i love you, bluebug

squeal omgosh it's ellie!! Yeah it probably was pointed out already, but I'm not gonna read back 10 pages..lol.. I love you too, mom.

 

[4enlightment]

Jeremiah 31:31 “The days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah.

Jeremiah 31:33 “This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel after that time,” declares the Lord.
“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
34 No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”
declares the Lord.
“For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”
35 This is what the Lord says,

Hebrews 8:8 But God found fault with the people and said: “The days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah.

John 3:19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.

Matthew 12:41 The men of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and now something greater than Jonah is here.

Matthew 12:42 The Queen of the South will rise at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for she came from the ends of the earth to listen to Solomon’s wisdom, and now something greater than Solomon is here.


[h=2]ver·dict[/h] (vûr′dĭkt)n.1. Law The decision of the jury after the trial of a case.
2. An expressed conclusion; a judgment or opinion





Luke 22:20 In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.

2 Corinthians 3:6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Galatians 2:14 When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in front of them all, “You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs?

Romans 6:14 For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.

 

[coby]

If a believer is NOT sinless, or without sin, then HOW can they be guiltless, or without guilt? That would require having no conscience at all. Even believers DO sin, and most DO feel guilt.

And then you repent and confess and the guilt and sin is gone.

 

[FreeNChrist]

If a believer is NOT sinless, or without sin, then HOW can they be guiltless, or without guilt?

Ummmmm, the Cross?

 

[Bookends]

That actually isn't what is being put forth. Grace believers are secure in their salvation not because of themselves but because of what Jesus did at the cross. VVhether our spirits are incorruptible or not is irrelevant to my faith in Jesus, my Savior. I am saved because of Him, my ignorance on the incorruptibility of my spirit doesn't affect my assurance because my assurance relies on God. It is my faith in Christ that saves me, by His grace. Salvation doesn't result from focusing on identity, rather we gain our identity in the salvation the Lord offers (I.e, made new creations).

Is possible to live in grace and not have a circumcised heart?

 

[Grandpa]

Forgiven. By faith.

Saved. By faith.

Obedient. By faith.

NOT condemned. By faith.

Under Grace and not law. By faith.

Guiltless. By faith.

Faith in the Grace, Mercy and work of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Excellent Thread. I was just thinking along these lines this morning...

 

[planitsoon]

Why do we think that the Holy Spirit convicts:

- the world of sin,
- the believer of his righteousness
- and the devil of his judgement?

John 16:8-11

Why does the Holy Spirit not convicts us of our sin anymore (that is for the world) but instead, when we sin, of our right standing in Him?

Because we might forget and that's why Jesus said, " of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more".

 

[mpaper345]

Even when saved we have the capacity to sin if we desire,but the Bible says a Spirit led life will not fulfill the desires of the flesh,which means they will be tempted,but will not carry it out.

So if we are led of the Spirit,we will act like Christ.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Why do we think that the Holy Spirit convicts:

- the world of sin,
- the believer of his righteousness
- and the devil of his judgement?

John 16:8-11

Why does the Holy Spirit not convicts us of our sin anymore (that is for the world) but instead, when we sin, of our right standing in Him?

Because we might forget and that's why Jesus said, " of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more".

But it says it convicts the world of righteousness. It doesn't say believers. You have to be consistent in interpretation.

 

[ladylynn]

To me guiltless people are children or at least child like. Knowing sin makes a sin a sin I think.

Quite often guilt is not just simply being mature because it does not always lead to admitting to doing something wrong and receiving the forgiveness and moving forward. Many times, the kind of guilt most people have is the kind that cannot be fixed unless they "receive" forgiveness. And many people cannot forgive themselves. And many people will not be forgiven by those who they have wronged.

So as Christians we must be able to see that in Christ we are ALWAYS forgiven and do not have to earn that forgiveness ourselves. As a matter of fact, we cannot earn it ourselves by our convincing God we are good for it. What honors God is for us to honor the Son by acknowledging Jesus when we fail. Then claim grace and forgiveness in our time of need. Not our own feelings of remorse but more so our realization that it is only because of Jesus and what He gave us when we received the gift of righteousness (right standing with God) that we have any right to that forgiveness.

I know it is counter to what we consider regular human behavior when you have done someone wrong.
We humans have been taught to make it right ourselves.,to DO something to compensate. But in the realm of being children of God, our responsibility is to see Jesus is the only way to make it right and we already have been gifted that forgiveness 2000 or so years ago. Realizing this (recon it) before God and that is what will compensate and count.