A believer is not sinless., A believer is guiltless...

[eternally-gratefull]

That is presenting a false dichotomy. We are saved by grace; created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. Teaching both is a more balanced view than focusing on just one or the other, which creates an imbalance.

This is a false dichotomy and deceiving. it would state anyone who believes in Christ and teaches some kind of works will get to heaven, that just is not true..

If one teaches faith plus works are required for salvation, they are teaching works.

If one teaches one is saved by grace, then they teach grace, because works do not enter the equation until AFTER ONE IS SAVED. thus they are NOT PART OF THE EQUATION.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

To these guys grace is defined as anti-work (i.e., anti-do-anything). Thus the false dichotomy.

And your a lying, decieving creature. (and yes, I held my tongue)

We do not deny works, THATS YOUR LIE AGAINST US..

You think that will help you in your gospel of works, by bearing false witness of others?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Water baptism is not a "work". It is a believer's natural response to salvation...

No it is a work OT circumcision was not a thing a man did, Yet the NT calls it a work.

his outward sign that he has accepted the free gift, and is fulfilling his part of the covenant... just as Abraham did when he was circumcised. Same principle.
It's not a "work".

It is a work when one promotes salvation is one of the rewards, or wages, of being water baptized.. As some are preaching.

It is still a work. because it is a command, and whoever does it will be blessed by it,, and it wull be used by God to bless others..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The Bible says that too that salvation can be lost. Why else would God warn us?

Bible passages opposing permanent salvation

If it can be lost, then it must be earned,

and we are saved not by grace, by by works.. period..

Sorry,, But you can not get past this part.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The Gnostics did not repent, they did not have to. Their spirit had 'supernatural knowledge' which lifted them upwards, their flesh could sin as much as it liked. We sin and we do repent. We are therefore at the other end of the spectrum to them.

Its time you learned what the Gnostics really believed.

He does not know what we who teach salvation by grace through faith believes, and he talks to us every day and hears us tell him what we really believe, How can we expect hi to believe what someone many centuries ago believed.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

1. That's a non-sequitur
2. I witness against lawless grace, false grace, satan's version of grace. I fully believe in GOD's grace.
3. That's what scripture witnesses

Thank you for proving I was right.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Do you think slandering others is loving? Do you think that someone pretending they do not slander others when they do is loving behavior on their part? Is it loving for someone to deny the truth when proof is given? Or is is it a blatant lie to call the truth an untruth? Is it loving to point out to another when they are wrong? Where does one draw the line? Jesus spent a good deal of time pointing out error, and so did Paul. Where do we draw the line? Personally I find it quite distasteful to engage in taking other's inventory. But it is equally difficult to sit idly by and witness such atrocities in silence.

So let me see, It is ok if HRFTD slanders others?

Because you sure like to defend him, Yet I have never seen you confront him like you do others, when he does the very thing you are getting mad at others for.

It may help your integrity if you do not take sides. People may listen to you more. and not think your biased. which is appears you are.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If a believer is NOT sinless, or without sin, then HOW can they be guiltless, or without guilt? That would require having no conscience at all. Even believers DO sin, and most DO feel guilt.

Amen!

That guilt is chastening, or confronting by the HS.

A true child is chastened..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

And then you repent and confess and the guilt and sin is gone.

The guilt was gone at the cross

Thats why a child of God can come boldy to the throne of Grace, and go to their Abba Father, they were not given a spirit of fear.. But a spirit of adoption.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Is possible to live in grace and not have a circumcised heart?

Hitler seemed to get alot of grace,, He was allowed to rule most of europe for how many years?

Every man woman and child who walks the earth walk in grace, because we all deserve hellfire and brimstone.

So I guess it all depens on how you interpret living in grace...

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

To these guys grace is defined as anti-work (i.e., anti-do-anything). Thus the false dichotomy.

And your a lying, decieving creature. (and yes, I held my tongue)

We do not deny works, THATS YOUR LIE AGAINST US..

You think that will help you in your gospel of works, by bearing false witness of others?

I've been following this closely for a while. I know what ""grace"" teachers teach. What I said is entirely true.

 

[ladylynn]

Your much opinion lacks scriptural backing. Consider studying 2 Tim 2. In particular note a key verse that is not given as a divine suggestion, but is a commandment embedded within a chapter of commandments.

2 Tim 2:19Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Departing from sin is necessary. There are no scriptures that excuse ignorance of our covenant, nor does grace give anyone a pass due to lack of such basic knowledge. Paul commanded Timothy to study in that chapter, and teach the word. The Lord knows who are his, and knows who believes like demons do, and tremble.

What taught me about security in Christ was observing how my opinions (and other people's opinions) fall apart when life happened. We all have an opinion and there is no security in that. It's what we know by faith. If our salvation is based on what we think it can be tossed two and fro with every wind of doctrine that can successfully make us "feel" good or bad.

Because the foundation of God standeth sure and because of that seal (the Holy Spirit) we are His. We have been bought with a price and are no longer our own. We are now sheep of His pasture. Because of Jesus testimony standing sure "we" are secure as we are walking out our salvation.

We are learning how to depart from sin. We are looking in the mirror of the Bible and seeing how we lived and related to life before Christ. The Holy Spirit is teaching us and we are repenting - changing our minds and agreeing with God (by faith) about who we are now IN Christ. Grace is teaching us how to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts., how to live soberly righteously and godly in this present age. Grace does in fact teach us and give us the security of His unconditional love and favor as we walk and see and learn to be like Jesus.

Salvation is by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God not of works.. we can't boast. The simplicity of John 3:16 says it. If we have the gift of eternal life, we will not perish. The foundation is believing IN the promise and standing on the solid rock who is Christ. It can't be our feelings or opinions, it has to be more than that or we fail every time.

Our opinions change but Jesus stays the same and His promises are not going to waver. We have passed from death unto life. John 5:24

Truly truly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes Him who sent Me HAS eternal life, and does not come into judgment but has PASSED OUT OF DEATH INTO LIFE.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Your much opinion lacks scriptural backing. Consider studying 2 Tim 2. In particular note a key verse that is not given as a divine suggestion, but is a commandment embedded within a chapter of commandments.

2 Tim 2:19Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Departing from sin is necessary. There are no scriptures that excuse ignorance of our covenant, nor does grace give anyone a pass due to lack of such basic knowledge. Paul commanded Timothy to study in that chapter, and teach the word. The Lord knows who are his, and knows who believes like demons do, and tremble.

1. You can not depart fro sin on your own power. You need Gods power
2. Many stop a few sins, and think they depart from it. That is not true, Gods standard is the law. and perfect obedience, and paul tells us in Rom 3 that we all sin and fall short of that glory.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

1. You can not depart fro sin on your own power. You need Gods power
2. Many stop a few sins, and think they depart from it. That is not true, Gods standard is the law. and perfect obedience, and paul tells us in Rom 3 that we all sin and fall short of that glory.

So what's your point? GOD gave/gives us the ability to overcome sin.

 

[psalm6819]

you can lead a sinner to grace but ya can't make them recieve.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hyper-grace proposes when mixed with calvanism, OSAS, once you have faith at somepoint you are saved.
In this formula all sin is forgiven from Christ onwards for everyone, and sin is no longer an issue.

Another proposal is put forward by Paul. The law condemns and does not bring righteousness or acceptability before God.
It is the right relationship, the understanding the heart of the Lord and his intentions that matter. This is expressed in belief or faith in God.

This faith in Christ means we are not under the law anymore, but under the Spirit, born again, walking in fellowship with Christ. The outflow of our hearts is to follow and obey Christ, to do the things he asked of us. As a measure of the work done in us we follow. This following is perfection, acceptable to God as long as we exercise faith, which is counted as righteousness. If we continue in sin, faith in the end becomes lost to us, so we loose our righteous standing before Christ and God.

"Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?" Matt 19:16
"If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." Matt 19:21

But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. Matt 5:43
Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect. Matt 5:48

But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Luke 6:35
Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful. Luke 6:36

Matthew uses the term perfect twice. Once in terms of salvation, following Christ is to find eternal life, perfection.
Loving your enemies is being perfect. Luke softens the word by using the word merciful, which is more specific to the meaning of loving your enemies and closes off the idea we are perfect in everything.

So our standard in following Christ is achievable through fellowship with Christ. It is the faith we have that deems us righteous, not our behaviour, though our righteous behaviour is the fruit of the relationship. If we loose our relationship we loose our righteousness. This negates the idea of one sin invalidates fellowship or faith, but persistant sin does, because it breaks the relationship. If you have teenage children you will know the line between being an independent adult and respectful to your parents, often get mixed up with destructive results. Sometimes the break is permanent, sometimes it comes back.

The problem with calvanism is the assumption a break is impossible. Peter could have broken his relationship with Christ when he denied him, but it was his faith that remained strong and saved him. Judas did break this faith, and denied Christ was the messiah, just a lunatic preacher who could be sold to the highest bidder. He lost his faith.

Just so this false teacher can be exposed. and people will see the truth, and not what he thinks we who teach eternal security believe.

Salvation does not happen at some simple moment when one has so called faith.

Salvation comes when one has been convicted of sin righteousness and judgment by the HS of God (who Jesus said would CONVICT the workd of these things)

Salvation occurs when these convictions dig deep into our soul. May take weeks months of even years for this to occur. A period of time comes when the person is empty, He sees no hope, he sees his sin and destruction from that sin, He sees his guilt and shame, He sees his state so desperate, he has to repent of everything he was taught of the world. Everything he believed about who he was, and repent of the fact he has made himself his own God, Made up his own rules to live by, and rejected the creator and was an enemy of the creator by doing this, His life was full of sin, full of pride, full of emptiness And he had to as the tax collector did, Get on his knees, and cry out to God for forgiveness and mercy.. As Paul said in romans 10, If we call out to God, he will her us, He will save us

This so called easy believism (the bible called licentiousness) is not faith (even demons believe) it is not repentance, and it those people will not be saved..

People like Peter and HRFTD will not get what we believe, Because they have been taught by the men they trust what we believe, And there is no way the MEN who lead them would teach them wrong.

They are followers of men, Not God.. and a we can do is pray for them.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I've been following this closely for a while. I know what ""grace"" teachers teach. What I said is entirely true.

No you do not.

Because you have been told by many many people in here what we believe, Yet you continue to slander us, and say we texh things we would never teach.

You do not even know what Grace is, how cna you then know what grace believers teach

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So what's your point? GOD gave/gives us the ability to overcome sin.

That is not what the person said, He said we must turn from sin first.

A non believer can not do that, They must be given the power to overcome

And even then, they will not be perfect. so they will still fall short of Gods gorly (rom 3: 23)

Thats why grace is a 24/7 function. We will NEVER be in a place we can EARN Gods love..

It is the righteousness of his son that sustains us, Not our own rightiousness..

Paul said it clearly.

Not by works of righteousness which we have done

BUT BY HIS MERCY, HE SAVED US

by the washing (baptism) and renewal (regeneration or new birth) OF THE HOLY SPIRIT..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What taught me about security in Christ was observing how my opinions (and other people's opinions) fall apart when life happened. We all have an opinion and there is no security in that. It's what we know by faith. If our salvation is based on what we think it can be tossed two and fro with every wind of doctrine that can successfully make us "feel" good or bad.

Because the foundation of God standeth sure and because of that seal (the Holy Spirit) we are His. We have been bought with a price and are no longer our own. We are now sheep of His pasture. Because of Jesus testimony standing sure "we" are secure as we are walking out our salvation.

We are learning how to depart from sin. We are looking in the mirror of the Bible and seeing how we lived and related to life before Christ. The Holy Spirit is teaching us and we are repenting - changing our minds and agreeing with God (by faith) about who we are now IN Christ. Grace is teaching us how to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts., how to live soberly righteously and godly in this present age. Grace does in fact teach us and give us the security of His unconditional love and favor as we walk and see and learn to be like Jesus.

Salvation is by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God not of works.. we can't boast. The simplicity of John 3:16 says it. If we have the gift of eternal life, we will not perish. The foundation is believing IN the promise and standing on the solid rock who is Christ. It can't be our feelings or opinions, it has to be more than that or we fail every time.

Our opinions change but Jesus stays the same and His promises are not going to waver. We have passed from death unto life. John 5:24

Truly truly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes Him who sent Me HAS eternal life, and does not come into judgment but has PASSED OUT OF DEATH INTO LIFE.

Amen sis, If we do not hold onto this hope. we can not have faith, If we have no faith, how can we even think we have been saved.

WHo can be secure in them selves? We are sinners, there can never be any hpe in us But in christ, in his work. We have a living hope that will never fade, and never pass away, It is eternal.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

That is not what the person said, He said we must turn from sin first.

A non believer can not do that, They must be given the power to overcome

And even then, they will not be perfect. so they will still fall short of Gods gorly (rom 3: 23)

Thats why grace is a 24/7 function. We will NEVER be in a place we can EARN Gods love..

It is the righteousness of his son that sustains us, Not our own rightiousness..

Paul said it clearly.

Not by works of righteousness which we have done

BUT BY HIS MERCY, HE SAVED US

by the washing (baptism) and renewal (regeneration or new birth) OF THE HOLY SPIRIT..

Of course an unbeliever can turn from sin because the bible says to repent and believe, not believe and repent.