Faith is our righteousness - Christ is our sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins
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If Paul is saying faith is reconned as righteousness, he is saying it for a reason.
I think Paul is bridging the gap between fulfilling the law yet failing to have communion with God.
You can do all the "right" things and yet the outcome is wrong unless communion is driving your heart.
Righteousness is not just about sin, obvious damage and rebellion, but about seeing need and meeting it, about being called to do something by God, and obeying or walking in the leading He gives.
Perfect righteousness - I am not sure this exists, because the word perfect is a comparitive word.
Righteousness in us grows out of the work of transformation of the Holy Spirit, of obedience to Christs word, of love a work within us.
The hardest thing for us to see is Christs work within when we are so sensitive to the failure we know so well.
God calls us Holy, pure, redeemed, His people. Everything we are is His work, and whatever we become, is the work of the Lord in us, so why should not this righteousness be enough. We are not the atoning sacrifice, we are the work of His hands.
I think Paul is bridging the gap between fulfilling the law yet failing to have communion with God.
You can do all the "right" things and yet the outcome is wrong unless communion is driving your heart.
Righteousness is not just about sin, obvious damage and rebellion, but about seeing need and meeting it, about being called to do something by God, and obeying or walking in the leading He gives.
Perfect righteousness - I am not sure this exists, because the word perfect is a comparitive word.
Righteousness in us grows out of the work of transformation of the Holy Spirit, of obedience to Christs word, of love a work within us.
The hardest thing for us to see is Christs work within when we are so sensitive to the failure we know so well.
God calls us Holy, pure, redeemed, His people. Everything we are is His work, and whatever we become, is the work of the Lord in us, so why should not this righteousness be enough. We are not the atoning sacrifice, we are the work of His hands.
reconned => reckoned. It made me think a bit. How long has we always thought, our righteousness does not matter because it is Christ righteousness alone that matters?
We all know we often fall short, regret so much, know that thing we should have done, yet push it under the carpet.
But Jesus said every word we speak matters.
But I tell you that everyone will have to give account on the day of judgment for every empty word they have spoken.
Matt 12:36
We all know we often fall short, regret so much, know that thing we should have done, yet push it under the carpet.
But Jesus said every word we speak matters.
But I tell you that everyone will have to give account on the day of judgment for every empty word they have spoken.
Matt 12:36
Jesus is the gospel, seeing who He is and what He has done.
Letting the reality change your soul and spirit and walking after Him in repentance and faith.
I do not expect respect or even answers from you, because you condemn those who do not follow your exact formula or theology and call them non-christian. I am surprised that you think theology saves and not Jesus, I go with Jesus.
On the question of answering points, you do not answer points, you put only your perspective and refuse to try and grasp anothers point of view, so it is not a discussion, just a load of non-answering points. I have seen this behaviour before, but only from non-believers.
Letting the reality change your soul and spirit and walking after Him in repentance and faith.
I do not expect respect or even answers from you, because you condemn those who do not follow your exact formula or theology and call them non-christian. I am surprised that you think theology saves and not Jesus, I go with Jesus.
On the question of answering points, you do not answer points, you put only your perspective and refuse to try and grasp anothers point of view, so it is not a discussion, just a load of non-answering points. I have seen this behaviour before, but only from non-believers.
John is talking about people who deny that Christ came in the flesh etc. Not all heresies or problems come in this way.
No he is talking about those who deny Christ period..
You sure know how to take a passage of scripture and screw it up..
Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ.
1 John 2:22
No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.
1 John 2:23
Now there are other heresies out there that just saying Jesus is not the Christ. For instance saying we are equally the same as christ, is another heresy. And we can take Christ and emphasis the miraculous and leave out heart transformation through discipleship. But your tenor is very dismissive and closed minded. It also ends with the declaration I am screwing up scripture. That is just an opinion, but I suppose that is all you have.
EG for instance condemns his fathers church and all the people there, me and many others who I would call believers.
No, I condemn no one, I condemn the gospel of works..
How many times do you have to be told that.
You continually tell me I am a legalist, trying to earn my salvation, and not saved. I would call that condemnation in the extreme. Telling a christian he is going to hell because he does not accept OSAS, is condemnation. Saying it is sin and needs to repent of, is standing in for God. But somehow this seems to pass you by and your readers. Must be judgementalism is part of this version of christianity.
There comes a point where you say people have chosen this position, and rejected all others, so it cannot be about faith but something personal to themselves. They maybe saved but just lost the plot along the way.
There has to come a time, where you take God literally. When he says you will never die, he means it.
Maybe you will see this truth some day. Maybe you will not. All we can do is pray
The Lord never said we do not die. So I do not know what your bible is telling you, but it is not the bible I am reading.
Please show me this promise about never dying. Jesus gives us entry into the Kingdom, here and now and the promise of eternal life after we die or when we see Him face to face.
Only in your own mind you say I do not know Jesus. I do not know your spiritual walk, but I cannot believe over 20 years of faith this was without an encounter with the living Christ. Now my experience is meeting the Lord in many meeting, through many people and fellowships. I have rarely seen the legalism you talk about, but rather a lack of faith or reality of spirituality. You want me to be something I am not, and I cannot fit the box to make you happy. I wish you well but have no clue about what you are talking about. I wonder how you can claim to know Christ to be this far off the mark.
C
Gospel of works. The law is nailed to the cross.
I can't help but think of that English preacher any time I read something like that. Murderers go to heaven as long as they believe.
He was so funny. He had this British accent and the amazement in his voice. 'He thought he could be a christian gangster'.
https://soundfaith.com/sermons/100051-christian-gangster
I can't help but think of that English preacher any time I read something like that. Murderers go to heaven as long as they believe.
He was so funny. He had this British accent and the amazement in his voice. 'He thought he could be a christian gangster'.
https://soundfaith.com/sermons/100051-christian-gangster
Dear reader,
In all sincerity I ask people simply to meet Jesus and walk with Him, listen to His words and do what He tells you.
Many theologies have been created out of His actions and words, but they do not define the relationship or its reality.
Decrying peoples heart felt experiences or calling them of Satan is not the work of the Holy Spirit.
It appears that the spiritual approaches are in two areas. People who believe we are so lost, everything is of God, and we are incapable of anything good or righteous, at any point as sinners or redeemed saints.
The other side is people who believe we can be transformed and walk in righteousness. Some go so far that those who do not know God can be righteous.
The problem with inability to walk in righteousness, is you end up where the RCC is with lots of exceptions to get round this impossibility.
I want to believe Jesus. He set the slave free, He brought real victory, He brought love into our hearts to remake us into His children. This is the gospel that spoke to me as a child. If your Jesus cannot do this, I want to find the Jesus of scripture who spoke to His friends and knew their strengths and weaknesses. Moses, the great law giver, who saw God face to face, yet he was the humblest of men. Jesus the great high King, became the humblest and lowest, wandered around preaching love and reality, forgiveness, integrity, your yes being yes and your no being no.
Now I come in search of people who know my Lord, yet I am called evil, lost and empty. People are more confused than I ever could imagine. I am still learning and walking in His grace. In the end face to face is probably the only way we build this kingdom, because this is just words on a page. If we saw each other much of what is written would not be written at all. I wish you all well, may we learn more of our glorious Lord in the coming days, because He is worthy.
In all sincerity I ask people simply to meet Jesus and walk with Him, listen to His words and do what He tells you.
Many theologies have been created out of His actions and words, but they do not define the relationship or its reality.
Decrying peoples heart felt experiences or calling them of Satan is not the work of the Holy Spirit.
It appears that the spiritual approaches are in two areas. People who believe we are so lost, everything is of God, and we are incapable of anything good or righteous, at any point as sinners or redeemed saints.
The other side is people who believe we can be transformed and walk in righteousness. Some go so far that those who do not know God can be righteous.
The problem with inability to walk in righteousness, is you end up where the RCC is with lots of exceptions to get round this impossibility.
I want to believe Jesus. He set the slave free, He brought real victory, He brought love into our hearts to remake us into His children. This is the gospel that spoke to me as a child. If your Jesus cannot do this, I want to find the Jesus of scripture who spoke to His friends and knew their strengths and weaknesses. Moses, the great law giver, who saw God face to face, yet he was the humblest of men. Jesus the great high King, became the humblest and lowest, wandered around preaching love and reality, forgiveness, integrity, your yes being yes and your no being no.
Now I come in search of people who know my Lord, yet I am called evil, lost and empty. People are more confused than I ever could imagine. I am still learning and walking in His grace. In the end face to face is probably the only way we build this kingdom, because this is just words on a page. If we saw each other much of what is written would not be written at all. I wish you all well, may we learn more of our glorious Lord in the coming days, because He is worthy.
E
Your not being rejected because your like Jesus. You make every excuse to continue in your ways. Well your ways will find you out (they are in this thread, because of what you are doing)
You can not be like Jesus and not understand a thing of what others believe, and bear false witness against them. Unless you think Jesus is a liar and a theif. (not only does he lie about eternal life, he steals his own gift back)
You can not be like Jesus and not understand a thing of what others believe, and bear false witness against them. Unless you think Jesus is a liar and a theif. (not only does he lie about eternal life, he steals his own gift back)
E
So abrahams lack of faith in God giving sarah a child, and commiting adultry with her handmaiden in an attempt to fulfill Gods promise his own way. Were righteous acts? (be careful because paul said he was considered righteous BEFORE he commited these sins) God must have known something when he considered him righteous by imputing his righteousness to him...
E
Never, it sickens me that my righteousness is so decrepid, and filthy, So humiliating that I am forced to get on my knees, as the tax collector
The thought that I have to have someone elses righteousness applied to me in order to be saved is against human nature.. Thats why it is so hard for people to believe in it.. We must completely empty ourselves to even think it is a reality,, because human nature wants to save itself.
Anyone who thinks their righteousness does not matter and they can live as they please has never met God, period.
Who does that? Maybe thats your problem.. Again, your excusing your own sin or ignoring it. god does not allow his children to do it, he exposes their sin in chastening.. Maybe yuo can sin and forget. Gods people can not.. They are forced to acknowledge it, or take a fall.. (prodigal)
More than that.. For everything.. Thats why we can not be sinless. Because most of our sin is not even spoken, it is a thought, a refusal to do something..
Tats why it is so easy to water down the law. If I do not commit murder, adultry or am not a pron addict, well I must be ok with God.
News flash.
If we break even the LEAST of the law, We are guilty of it ALL!
Thos who repent realise this.. This is what has to occure for them to trust Gd to save them.. and grow them.
The thought that I have to have someone elses righteousness applied to me in order to be saved is against human nature.. Thats why it is so hard for people to believe in it.. We must completely empty ourselves to even think it is a reality,, because human nature wants to save itself.
Anyone who thinks their righteousness does not matter and they can live as they please has never met God, period.
Who does that? Maybe thats your problem.. Again, your excusing your own sin or ignoring it. god does not allow his children to do it, he exposes their sin in chastening.. Maybe yuo can sin and forget. Gods people can not.. They are forced to acknowledge it, or take a fall.. (prodigal)
More than that.. For everything.. Thats why we can not be sinless. Because most of our sin is not even spoken, it is a thought, a refusal to do something..
Tats why it is so easy to water down the law. If I do not commit murder, adultry or am not a pron addict, well I must be ok with God.
News flash.
If we break even the LEAST of the law, We are guilty of it ALL!
Thos who repent realise this.. This is what has to occure for them to trust Gd to save them.. and grow them.
E
If you stopped right here, We would be in 100 Percent agreement.
But you do not stop here, you then add requirements, Like keeping faith, Keep working, Earn your reward by being victorious
Thats where you take faith, add works, and thus make a different gospel.
You do not go with jesus, You take some of his words. Twist them, and make him say something he never said. Like most people. You know alot of bible. you know alot of so called doctrine, but you do not know God at all.. You will be like those who praise God all their hard work. And then get mad when jesus says depart from me, for I never knew you..
At least I try, whether you agree or not is not my concern, or anyone elses.. At least wwe give you the common courtesy of answering everything you say or ask.. or respond to all your points.
This is where you have exposed yourself. You will not even try, You pick and chose what point to answer. Then any answer you di give is usually nothing but an attack.
You have no desir to discuss theh bible. you want to force your beliefs on everyone, then get mad at them and attack them if they disagree..
You have been exposed..
But you do not stop here, you then add requirements, Like keeping faith, Keep working, Earn your reward by being victorious
Thats where you take faith, add works, and thus make a different gospel.
You do not go with jesus, You take some of his words. Twist them, and make him say something he never said. Like most people. You know alot of bible. you know alot of so called doctrine, but you do not know God at all.. You will be like those who praise God all their hard work. And then get mad when jesus says depart from me, for I never knew you..
At least I try, whether you agree or not is not my concern, or anyone elses.. At least wwe give you the common courtesy of answering everything you say or ask.. or respond to all your points.
This is where you have exposed yourself. You will not even try, You pick and chose what point to answer. Then any answer you di give is usually nothing but an attack.
You have no desir to discuss theh bible. you want to force your beliefs on everyone, then get mad at them and attack them if they disagree..
You have been exposed..
Thankyou EG. This is my point. How long have you followed Jesus? How long have you known what righteousness is, love and the Holy Spirit?
Listen to Paul encouraging Timothy
God’s work—which is by faith. The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.
1 Tim 1:5
Flee the evil desires of youth and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, along with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
2 Tim 2:22
You say you are a preacher, an example, yet the testimony from yourself after being forgiven, walking in love and the Holy Spirit is you are still lost. I do not think I would come to you for advice or teaching, because how can a teacher such as you teach me how to walk in righteousness when by your own testimony you fail so completely.
Now I am not perfect, but I have come a long way, I stumble only occasionally. I walk by Faith and the Spirit.
Who is following Jesus and finding victory in their lives? That is our goal and calling.
Listen to Paul encouraging Timothy
God’s work—which is by faith. The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.
1 Tim 1:5
Flee the evil desires of youth and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, along with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
2 Tim 2:22
You say you are a preacher, an example, yet the testimony from yourself after being forgiven, walking in love and the Holy Spirit is you are still lost. I do not think I would come to you for advice or teaching, because how can a teacher such as you teach me how to walk in righteousness when by your own testimony you fail so completely.
Now I am not perfect, but I have come a long way, I stumble only occasionally. I walk by Faith and the Spirit.
Who is following Jesus and finding victory in their lives? That is our goal and calling.
"I do not go with Jesus." Is this a word of knowledge you are having? Do you know me and my spiritual life?
When I say "I love you Jesus" who am I praying to?
When Jesus convicts me of sin and I repent, who am I obeying and repenting to?
Now when you pray to Jesus, you pray to Jesus. When you follow in Jesus's ways you are following Him. Now I may not agree with you on theology, but I am not saying you are not following your understanding of Jesus.
One way one knows when anyone has gone to far, is when they deny simple access anyone has to Christ.
You claim I am twisting Jesus's words when your group change the context and meaning so they have no influence on the believer. Many have claimed the sermon on the mount is to jews only before the cross, and not us, even though it was written after the cross by christians for christians. So I would suggest it is not me changing the words of Christ but the group you represent.
And I am happy to discuss anything. But calling me not even walking with Jesus is a very sad appreciation of someone else, especially when they are just sharing scripture and their life experience. It is not surprising people get scared of being trampled on, but hey, you have taught me to get used to it.
F
Dear reader,
Understand that PeterJens beliefs are based in the faulty humanistic premise of man as an independent self. All things start with man’s supposed inherent ability and potential. It regards mankind to be what only God is, and believes that man is capable of doing what only God can do. It is an understanding that is diametrically opposed to the Christian understanding of man. Christianity and humanism are mutually antithetical.
Understand that PeterJens beliefs are based in the faulty humanistic premise of man as an independent self. All things start with man’s supposed inherent ability and potential. It regards mankind to be what only God is, and believes that man is capable of doing what only God can do. It is an understanding that is diametrically opposed to the Christian understanding of man. Christianity and humanism are mutually antithetical.
FreeNChrist - This proposition is new to me. Man is an independent self. As far as I understand my existance I would agree with this. I would say without communion with the Lord we sin and die.
Free will is possible, the idea you have the ability to choose good or evil. How far I go along this line I have not worked out, because a sinner is a slave to sin, so therefore there is a limit to his ability. Equally when you are lost in sin, you cannot choose to walk righteously or have fellowship with God who you are in rebellion with.
Now if you believe morality is independent of God and people could walk righteously without communion, then this would deny scripture.
I sit where most sit, between free will and total inability to be good. Like most things, if you believe in total inability, then anyone else is into heretical free will. Unfortunately being in a mid place always means you get hit from both sides.
I hope I have got the ideas right, but please correct me if you know more.
Free will is possible, the idea you have the ability to choose good or evil. How far I go along this line I have not worked out, because a sinner is a slave to sin, so therefore there is a limit to his ability. Equally when you are lost in sin, you cannot choose to walk righteously or have fellowship with God who you are in rebellion with.
Now if you believe morality is independent of God and people could walk righteously without communion, then this would deny scripture.
I sit where most sit, between free will and total inability to be good. Like most things, if you believe in total inability, then anyone else is into heretical free will. Unfortunately being in a mid place always means you get hit from both sides.
I hope I have got the ideas right, but please correct me if you know more.