Faith is our righteousness - Christ is our sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins

[PeterJens]

You obviously think very highly of yourself if you think God needs your ability.

God uses who He uses. I do not think he needs me, but he uses everything and everyone for His purposes.
I got to say again I never predicted this kind of response. But it is always good to be educated and what to expect.

 

[ember]

dare I say it? no really?

I have been praying for God to make all this very clear to me and for the matter to be revealed

so I just want to say thank you to Him...He really does bring all things into the light

please understand, I'm not happy or rejoicing ... I just see again how our heavenly Father hears and answers

merciful God...I pray that those who have stopped up their ears to your truth and who have scales over their eyes, would, by your mercy, hear and see the truth

Jesus is Lord!

 

[FreeNChrist]

God uses who He uses. I do not think he needs me, but he uses everything and everyone for His purposes.
I got to say again I never predicted this kind of response. But it is always good to be educated and what to expect.

God doesn't need our ability, but only our availability.

 

[PeterJens]

I didn't see EG calling you names-I saw him quoting you then addressing each specific issue........

Unfortunately to my mind he is addressing very little. I am getting convinced you guys are very set in one outlook no matter what. Grace7x77 described on de-brain washing himself or looking at language a different way than he had grown up with in church. The problem is this is just creating a different outlook, no better than the one before but different. Unless you can hold all the variations and know which one you approve of, you are just brain washing yourself.

I see the power of the gospel as showing the heart of man and enabling cleansing through His work on the cross. It seems though for many this is not the work of the cross, and cleansing is not on their agenda because we are lost in sin until judgement day. The word changes from sin to walking in the flesh, but the ideas are the same.

 

[PeterJens]

God doesn't need our ability, but only our availability.

Unfortunately I was using the term inability to mean inability to choose to do the right thing or walk righteously and ability to mean we could be righteous. It is obvious the general belief is righteousness is impossible until we meet Jesus.

I am prepared to question that. The answer appears to be original sin and doctrine of inability, people confusing perfection with sin, people confusing self condemnation with Gods acceptance, people not accepting people walked blamlessly in the past and even fulfilled the law, yet did not know God in relationship.

So many are caught is sin but do not talk about it because victory is seen as irrelevant and not provided to the christian believer. On a simple level this denies the power of the cross which sets us free from sin. But obviously not for many.

But I enjoy these interplays because it teaches me where your limits are and why which means I know what to address to make progress

 

[FreeNChrist]

Unfortunately I was using the term inability to mean inability to choose to do the right thing or walk righteously and ability to mean we could be righteous. It is obvious the general belief is righteousness is impossible until we meet Jesus.

I am prepared to question that. The answer appears to be original sin and doctrine of inability, people confusing perfection with sin, people confusing self condemnation with Gods acceptance, people not accepting people walked blamlessly in the past and even fulfilled the law, yet did not know God in relationship.

So many are caught is sin but do not talk about it because victory is seen as irrelevant and not provided to the christian believer. On a simple level this denies the power of the cross which sets us free from sin. But obviously not for many.

But I enjoy these interplays because it teaches me where your limits are and why which means I know what to address to make progress

What you enjoy is the attention. It's sad really.

 

[PeterJens]

What you enjoy is the attention. It's sad really.

I do not know what you are talking about. Unless you try and work through different ideas and theology, how do you think you grow in understanding.

I cannot predict where I will end up because it is where the theology and scripture show you.
For instance I now appreciate faith is reconnded as our righteousness, rather than Christs righteousness by being imputed.
The concept of christs righteousness works for justification but not sanctification. Unless you want to go down the universalist route and everyone is saved by default, faith or no faith, no matter the behaviour or background.

 

[FreeNChrist]

I do not know what you are talking about. Unless you try and work through different ideas and theology, how do you think you grow in understanding.

I cannot predict where I will end up because it is where the theology and scripture show you.
For instance I now appreciate faith is reconnded as our righteousness, rather than Christs righteousness by being imputed.
The concept of christs righteousness works for justification but not sanctification. Unless you want to go down the universalist route and everyone is saved by default, faith or no faith, no matter the behaviour or background.

Exactly. You do not know what anyone else is talking about.

 

[Gr8grace]

Unfortunately to my mind he is addressing very little. I am getting convinced you guys are very set in one outlook no matter what. Grace7x77 described on de-brain washing himself or looking at language a different way than he had grown up with in church. The problem is this is just creating a different outlook, no better than the one before but different. Unless you can hold all the variations and know which one you approve of, you are just brain washing yourself.

I see the power of the gospel as showing the heart of man and enabling cleansing through His work on the cross. It seems though for many this is not the work of the cross, and cleansing is not on their agenda because we are lost in sin until judgement day. The word changes from sin to walking in the flesh, but the ideas are the same.

The key is salvation Peter. We can't live the Christian way of life apart from being saved and having the Holy Spirit.

If we are not born-again we can't love,live or walk Like Jesus Christ........It requires His Spirit in us.

Salvation first then the walk. We can't do the walk if we are not Born again.

And the believer is only under 4 mandates or commands. If we follow these commands........all others follow.

1. Do not grieve the Spirit.

2. Do not quench the Spirit.

3. Walk in the Spirit.

4. Be filled with the Spirit.

If the believer follows these commands, all others are fulfilled and we are in Gods plan for our lives.

If we are making our salvation dependent upon our walk, that is quenching the Spirit. He sealed us for the day of redemption the moment we believed. Our walk in Him is after this so great a salvation.

 

[ember]

So many are caught is sin but do not talk about it because victory is seen as irrelevant and not provided to the christian believer. On a simple level this denies the power of the cross which sets us free from sin. But obviously not for many.

are you a member of another site that might apply to?

cause it is NOT this one

now if you do not read the posts other members make in reply to your almost constant referral to folks sinning, and how much that affects people, then maybe someone should pm you

on a simple level, no one believes what you state.

Jesus is OFF the cross and the power over death is destroyed We are alive IN Him and we rejoice in God our Savior and the victory over sin and power of the devil that we have IN Christ. The victory that HE obtained for us when God raised Him up because death and the devil had no hold over HIM because He is sinless!

That is the victory that we have. We are triumphant in Christ. We belong to Him and we are accepted and acceptable to God our Father IN Christ

 

[PeterJens]

What you enjoy is the attention. It's sad really.

What is sad is people are too blinkered about what Jesus's meant and how dynamic and powerful His words are.
After 3 years with 12 guys and a group of disciples, he expected to change the world.

Wow. That is insight and belief in the power of love and His word and teaching.

What I have heard and seen is closed minds and empty hearts, locked in battles and seeing evil spirits everywhere rather than overcoming the world are victims of it. I had not expected this, and I had not expected to be told I was a dangerous ignorant person who knew nothing about God. But then if I came sharing what God said in scripture to pompous people who over the internet can tell evil spirits, motivations of jokes or humour and start declaring who is saved and who is not, it is not surprising I came off worst.

I am sure also many still do not know what they actually believe or why and just hold on to the band wagon they have got into. So if I have made you wonder and question, seek the Lord and walk in a deeper appreciation of what He has done, I am pleased. I am sure for some I have just annoyed and driven you crazy, but that is the nature of ideas.

 

[John146]

Yes, of course, I was aiming that comment towards PeterJens.

ummmmmmm, No. Those in Christ HAVE eternal life. And they can know it.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Yes, of course, I was aiming that comment towards PeterJens.

Gotcha. (Insert Thumbs up icon that isn't available here.)

 

[PeterJens]

on a simple level, no one believes what you state.

Good grief. What I am stating is not rocket science and millions of people believe what I believe. The fact you come out with such a bald statement of contradiction is simply a lie. Now ember you told me once about lying and how bad it is.

So how come it comes so easily to you. Everyone commenting here is actually in the grace camp. So it is no suprise to me you do not like what I am saying. But I know why and where I am coming from.

They say keep your friends close and your enemies closer still. In theological terms we are enemies, which is unfortunate but I am beginning to see why. I think everyone has their own versions of probably all aspects of faith, but it helps to define and know where the core roots are. So I encourage everyone to find out more, because we never fail in desiring more of God and more of the truth about all we touch and understand. One thing I have learnt we are called to go forth and interact with a clean heart and good intentions and expect to be reviled, hated, slandered, spat upon because likewise the apostles and prophets went before us. Some will change others will grow harder, but it is always better we tried than nothing at all

 

[FreeNChrist]

What is sad is people are too blinkered about what Jesus's meant and how dynamic and powerful His words are.
After 3 years with 12 guys and a group of disciples, he expected to change the world.

Wow. That is insight and belief in the power of love and His word and teaching.

What I have heard and seen is closed minds and empty hearts, locked in battles and seeing evil spirits everywhere rather than overcoming the world are victims of it. I had not expected this, and I had not expected to be told I was a dangerous ignorant person who knew nothing about God. But then if I came sharing what God said in scripture to pompous people who over the internet can tell evil spirits, motivations of jokes or humour and start declaring who is saved and who is not, it is not surprising I came off worst.

I am sure also many still do not know what they actually believe or why and just hold on to the band wagon they have got into. So if I have made you wonder and question, seek the Lord and walk in a deeper appreciation of what He has done, I am pleased. I am sure for some I have just annoyed and driven you crazy, but that is the nature of ideas.

You mean those guys who were cowering behind locked doors in the upper room? Or those guys who when Christ returned to indwell them by His Spirit did go out and change the world forever?

 

[BenFTW]

Our righteousness is of faith, but it is not the faith itself that is our righteousness. Our righteousness is imputed by Jesus Christ, just like how our sins were imputed to Him so He imputed His righteousness to us. One can have a faith that is void of Christ and such a man is without righteousness. It is the object of our faith that justifies and that is Jesus Christ. As an addendum, the only righteousness that God has ever accepted is a righteousness of faith, not of works or self-righteousness.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Good grief. What I am stating is not rocket science and millions of people believe what I believe.

On what planet?

 

[ember]

Good grief. What I am stating is not rocket science and millions of people believe what I believe. The fact you come out with such a bald statement of contradiction is simply a lie. Now ember you told me once about lying and how bad it is.

So how come it comes so easily to you. Everyone commenting here is actually in the grace camp. So it is no suprise to me you do not like what I am saying. But I know why and where I am coming from.

They say keep your friends close and your enemies closer still. In theological terms we are enemies, which is unfortunate but I am beginning to see why. I think everyone has their own versions of probably all aspects of faith, but it helps to define and know where the core roots are. So I encourage everyone to find out more, because we never fail in desiring more of God and more of the truth about all we touch and understand. One thing I have learnt we are called to go forth and interact with a clean heart and good intentions and expect to be reviled, hated, slandered, spat upon because likewise the apostles and prophets went before us. Some will change others will grow harder, but it is always better we tried than nothing at all

you do realize I was actually only mirroring your own words to you? "on a simple level"

calling me a liar again, are we? well what else would you say to people who expose the fallacy of what you are stating?

To YOU and those in YOUR camp, myself and others appear as liars

for your own sake, you really should stop calling people liars and such or questioning whether or not they are, in YOUR opinion, saved

carry on

 

[psalm6819]

I started this thread to have a discussion about faith being our righteousness rather than Christs imputed righteousness.

A young boy was quoted as stating to his dad that God only sees Christs righteousness when he looks at us.
Now I kind of understand the idea, but it sounds wrong. It also sounds wrong in sanctification that the failure and sin that is being worked through is not covered over. I in the past regarded this as the direction of the walk, ie faith in Christ, but had not articulated it in this way. It appears Paul has, and Hebrews carries this idea forward.

It also dove tails neatly into communion being the core to the walk with God, because only in the walk can we truly know what to do next. It also fits well that though one could obey the commandments, without communion and faith it would be meaningless and like Paul you could end up persecuting those who truly know God.

So I wonder who on this site hold to imputed righteousness by Christ?

Bad premise
Abraham's faith counted as righteous BEFORE Jesus, our righteousness is imputed!! I thought you said you read your Bible..

 

[psalm6819]

Got to laugh. My commentary is simple run of the mill christian theology. It is you who are peculiar.
But I wonder if you understand why you think what I am saying is perculiar. I am just quoting scripture. I am also just making observations about people I know and what has happened to them. This is repeated throughout the christian world.

I cannot agree with something because you do, because this is what it means to follow Christ. I am obeying the simple words of Jesus and the apostles. It is a testimony against you if this appears as peculiar, because that means you have strayed far from the gospel. Ofcourse EG will claim it shows I have strayed, but this does not hold if what I am saying is merely what the bible says.

Exactly!!! you don't need theology you need to read your Bible. Read about Jesus and what HE did for you

not the other way around.

The Bible says He will renew your mind not your efforts,

He will give you a heart of flesh not "go get a heart transplant"

Him not you.

All we do is yield to His leading