If homosexuality is an abomination to God, why do some Christians support it?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Status
Not open for further replies.
J

jennymae

Guest
Kaylagrl and Ladyblue, I was somewhat surprised to read yalls responses, gotta admit that:) I'm not saying God is a liar, I'm expressing my opinion on a subject. We don't know the Lords ways, and we don't know anything about being gay. Leave it all to the Lord and bring what's troublesome to Him in prayer:)
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
70,920
9,669
113
View attachment 145442

I think the real issue here is that some folks are using the ARCHAIC definition of "speak" in their understanding.

Have you ever heard of a RED LETTER Bible? What are the red letters highlighting?
"Red letter edition Bibles are those in which words spoken by Jesus, commonly only while he was on the Earth, are printed in red ink." -Wiki

Jesus! Have mercy on our souls!
Yeah, I'm not stupid. My KJV is a red-letter bible. So what's your point? The ENTIRE BIBLE IS JESUS' WORDS. Not only what's printed in red.. Man wrote the bible, BUT they got the words from GOD. They didn't make up a story of their own imagination. Hello!! Jesus have mercy on the souls who don't understand that the entire bible IS God's own words. :/
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
70,920
9,669
113
Jennymae stated that gays are gay because God "created them as such". That's bull crap and everyone knows it isn't true. Kayla wasn't picking apart Jenny's opinion, she simply told her that she needs to rethink her position on what she said about God creating people gay. And we ALL use sarcasm here every day, so don't single Kayla out for it. What Kayla said about God being a liar is true, IF indeed he does make gay people. Why would he do the opposite of what he hates? GOD DOES NOT CREATE GAY PEOPLE AND THAT'S A FACT!! :mad:
​If you're going to quote me, do it correctly. JENNY said that, not ME.. So you believe God DOES make gay people?? SMH at you too. :/ Stop making me out to look like a liar. Next time quote me accurately, tyvm!!
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
I am sorry If you feel condemned,
Magenta wrote this;

Jesus never mentioned homosexuality. He spoke of eunuchs though, and basically praised
them for their celibate lifestyle if it was chosen. He acknowledged that it was not easy.


As I said before, no where in the written account of the gospels does it mention homosexuality as if it came from Jesus mouth. I haver no problem with Jesus being abhorrent to its practise, and neither dose Magenta. But to make a point for the sake of putting oneself higher than another is not a Spirit leading.
I have copied and pasted Magenta's original post, it does not contain anything inflammatory against the Godhead, it does not contain any words that would make anyone think that Jesus supported it or that Magenta thought He did.

I know as you do that the Spirit of Jesus leads us in all truth, but some would like to give the Spirit a helping hand, He does not need it. (look what happened to King Saul)

To equate words written in honesty for a thread as some kind of underhanded hidden message, or to keep on so much at one person that they might feel condemned is not of Christ.

I pray the Spirit of peace will enter in this caffufle and bring to mind Jesus peace, and bring to our heart Jesus mind for the Glory of God, Amen

Quote "Jesus never mentioned homosexuality."

That is the whole issue we have been discussing!!! God said it,therefore Jesus said it. I dont why people are not getting this,its so simple.


Quote "But to make a point for the sake of putting oneself higher than another is not a Spirit leading."

You are judging. I'm making the point because it is what the Bible teaches. Im not going to stand down because people dont like it or call me a bigot. God and Jesus are in 100% agreement and that is an important truth separate from the homosexual issue. God in the OT is Jesus in the NT,to deny that is false doctrine.

Quote "
I have copied and pasted Magenta's original post, it does not contain anything inflammatory against the Godhead"

Yet again I will restate the issue. Magenta said Jesus did not say homosexuality was wrong. That is not true. God and Jesus are One and in 100% agreement,that IS the Godhead!


Quote "
To equate words written in honesty for a thread as some kind of underhanded hidden message"

Honestly written words doesn't make them true. Magenta is either unaware of the doctrinal truth or for some reason refuses to admit it. She hasn't yet cleared the issue.

Quote "
or to keep on so much at one person that they might feel condemned is not of Christ."

Magenta kept bantering back and was being rude about it. No one is condemning her, we are saying that what she is saying is not taught in the Bible. She did not want to let that go but kept arguing back. No matter how the point was made to her she kept demanding Scripture from Jesus mouth. So no one in any way is condemning Magenta so she doesn't need defending.


 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
70,920
9,669
113
Kaylagrl and Ladyblue, I was somewhat surprised to read yalls responses, gotta admit that:) I'm not saying God is a liar, I'm expressing my opinion on a subject. We don't know the Lords ways, and we don't know anything about being gay. Leave it all to the Lord and bring what's troublesome to Him in prayer:)
well, ya know Jenny, common sense should tell you that God doesn't make gay people, considering that he HATES that sin. Like Kayla said, that would make God a contradictive liar. So there shouldn't be any surprise in how we responded to such a silly statement. I stand by my posts. :)
 
P

PeacefulWarrior

Guest
Yeah, I'm not stupid. My KJV is a red-letter bible. So what's your point? The ENTIRE BIBLE IS JESUS' WORDS. Not only what's printed in red.. Man wrote the bible, BUT they got the words from GOD. They didn't make up a story of their own imagination. Hello!! Jesus have mercy on the souls who don't understand that the entire bible IS God's own words. :/
My point is: The entire nonsense argument associated with this thread is over a simple difference in understanding.

Both understandings are correct.

In other words: Jesus, while walking this Earth, never spoke about homosexuality -AND- Jesus, by way of the Word of God, spoke (speaks) against homosexuality.
 
P

PeacefulWarrior

Guest
If you're going to quote me, do it correctly. JENNY said that, not ME.. So you believe God DOES make gay people?? SMH at you too. :/ Stop making me out to look like a liar. Next time quote me accurately, tyvm!!
What? No, Lady Blue -- YOU said "everyone" as in "everyone knows".

(OBVIOUSLY, everyone does not know.)
 
Last edited:
P

PeacefulWarrior

Guest
Yeah, I'm not stupid. My KJV is a red-letter bible. So what's your point? The ENTIRE BIBLE IS JESUS' WORDS. Not only what's printed in red.. Man wrote the bible, BUT they got the words from GOD. They didn't make up a story of their own imagination. Hello!! Jesus have mercy on the souls who don't understand that the entire bible IS God's own words. :/
If the entire bible is Jesus' words -- why the red letters? Why isn't the entire thing red?
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
70,920
9,669
113
My point is: The entire nonsense argument associated with this thread is over a simple difference in understanding.

Both understandings are correct.

In other words: Jesus, while walking this Earth, never spoke about homosexuality -AND- Jesus, by way of the Word of God, spoke (speaks) against homosexuality.
Sorry, but I disagree. His words ARE IN THE BIBLE. He spoke very clearly on the subject of gayness. Whether he spoke from heaven or earth is irrelevant. He DID speak on homosexuality and sexual immorality!! Why you and Magenta don't understand that, truly baffles me. From heaven, or on earth, He did speak on the topic.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
It's my opinion that gay people have been given a cross they will be carrying throughout their lives. I don't believe they can change. It's the will of the Lord. The Lord has created them as such for some reason. We don't know that reason. The only thing we can do is praying for them. Forcing repentance on them is of no use. Bashing them is pure hatred and is a sin too. It's all to the Lord...there's nothing we can do...and we should stop adding to their burden. I know a lot of people believes that they have chosen their lifestyle, I don't believe that, it's hard too believe that anybody, voluntarily would choose to be that way.

1. If this is true, then an adulterer has no hope. A fornicator has no hope. and a pedophile has no hope.
2. Sexual sin is sexual sin, it does not matter what type it is, and ALL sexual sin can be healed.
3. They need a savior. I agree,, Bashing them will not get them to repent, yet no one that I see is bashing them here, Not supporting the gay agenda is not bashing someone, it is pretty silly to think it is.


now saying a gay is born that way, will never change because they were made that way, or any type of support which allows their sin to be excused, That is supporting or condoning their sin, And a christian should never do this,, Anymore than they would support any sin.
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
70,920
9,669
113
If the entire bible is Jesus' words -- why the red letters? Why isn't the entire thing red?

​Maybe because the most relevant and important stuff is in red. So God did NOT say "let there be light" or "in the beginning was the Word"? C'mon PW, you're smarter than this.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
I'm not getting into this "he said, she said" BS.

<-- Oh really? Where's the KINDNESS as you pick apart someone's PERSONAL OPINION while YOU CHALLENGE THEM? Which part of what she said 'makes God a liar'?

<-- We still don't see the lie here -- we see a contradiction, but not a lie. Is this what you meant by 'God is a liar' -- that God would contradict?

<-- Sarcasm; not helpful.

<-- What is "that"?

Quote "I'm not getting into this "he said, she said" BS."

If you ask a question you get an answer as to what is going on. And once again,language isn't used in here.

Quote "
Oh really? Where's the KINDNESS as you pick apart someone's PERSONAL OPINION while YOU CHALLENGE THEM? Which part of what she said 'makes God a liar'? "

Personal opinion doesn't matter! What the Word teaches matters and apparently this is where the problem lies. Yes,I challenge anyone who says God made homosexuals that way. That is what she said that makes God a liar. He said it was an abomination. Either He's right or she is. Im sticking with what God says on the matter.

Quote "
We still don't see the lie here -- we see a contradiction, but not a lie. Is this what you meant by 'God is a liar' -- that God would contradict? "

Here is her comment....

It's my opinion that gay people have been given a cross they will be carrying throughout their lives. I don't believe they can change. It's the will of the Lord. The Lord has created them as such for some reason. We don't know that reason. The only thing we can do is praying for them. Forcing repentance on them is of no use. Bashing them is pure hatred and is a sin too. It's all to the Lord...there's nothing we can do...and we should stop adding to their burden. I know a lot of people believes that they have chosen their lifestyle, I don't believe that, it's hard too believe that anybody, voluntarily would choose to be that way.

So can you understand now what I was saying using her comment as context? This is what I was answering in my post.


 

Utah

Banned
Dec 1, 2014
9,701
252
0
I have no dog in this fight but I must say there are times I can look at a guy and know he's gay. Not always, not even often, but definitely more than once in a while. There's a genetic look about them; a tight upper lip, high cheek bones and squinty eyes.

Former NJ Governor Jim McGreevey fits the profile perfectly. I know four guys who look like him and they're all gay. Its not like I know thousands of guys who look like McGreevey and only four are gay; I only know those four and they're all gay. Coincidence? Maybe. Maybe not.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
5,977
400
83
63
A major argument of the homosexual lobby is that same-sex attraction is genetically
determined—that people are born homosexual. Because that is the case, the argument
follows, then if you say homosexuality is wrong, you are as hateful and bigoted as if
you were condemning someone for their skin color.

Homosexual activists decry any effort to change someone’s sexual orientation as
morally reprehensible (reprehensible, that is, if it is a change toward heterosexuality
—I have never heard them argue that it would be wrong to persuade a heterosexual
to become homosexual). After all, how can you try to change someone from his genetic
destiny? They believe that the morally right thing is a full, unrestricted expression of
that supposed inborn tendency.


Well, if genetics do determine morality, that notion has some serious implications

Today’s homosexual special interest juggernaut started as a small movement. Now, there
is another small movement that is growing stronger—a movement that wants to extend
this same kind of morality-is-genetic argument to a new group of people: pedophiles.
People who are sexually attracted to children.

Michael L. Brown, author of the book A Queer Thing Happened to America, wrote this
in the Christian Post: “ome psychiatric leaders who were instrumental in removing
homosexuality from the American Psychiatric Association’s list of mental disorders
in 1973 have been fighting to remove pedophilia as a disorder as well, not to justify
the abuse of children but rather to say that being sexually attracted to children is not
a mental disorder” (September 28).

“Many Researchers Taking a Different View of Pedophilia” the Los Angeles Times
reported on Jan. 14, 2013. “Pedophilia once was thought to stem from psychological
influences early in life. Now, many experts view it as a deep-rooted predisposition
that does not change.”

“Scientists at the [Center for Mental Health and Addiction in Toronto] have uncovered
a series of associations that suggest pedophilia has biological roots,” the Times reports,
adding that more and more people are taking the view that pedophilia is “a sexual orientation
as immutable as heterosexuality or homosexuality.” It quotes a man who was arrested for
child pornography saying that a court ordered him to go to therapy. “‘These people felt they
could snuff out the desire, or shame me into denying it existed,’ he said. ‘But it’s as intrinsic
as the next person’s heterosexuality.’”

In his book, Michael Brown documents how the main arguments that have successfully
normalized homosexuality are now supporting the normalization of pedophilia.
The Christian Post report lists eight of them:

1) Pedophilia is innate and immutable; people are born this way and cannot change.

2) Pederasty is richly attested in many different cultures throughout history.

3) The claim that adult-child sexual relationships cause harm is greatly overstated
and often completely inaccurate.

4) Consensual adult-child sex can actually be beneficial to the child.

5) Pederasty should not be classified as a mental disorder, since it does not cause distress
to the pederast to have these desires and since the pederast can function as a normal,
contributing member of society.

6) Many of the illustrious homosexuals of the past were actually pedophiles.

7) People are against inter-generational intimacy because of antiquated social standards
and puritanical sexual phobias.

8) This is all about love and equality and liberation.

Look again at each of those arguments and replace pedophilia or pederasty with homosexuality.
This is exactly the line of reasoning that has successfully normalized and vaunted homosexuals.

You might think, That practice could never become legal, let alone popular. But in 2005, how many
people thought they’d ever see the White House bathed in the colors of the homosexual flag?

With pedophilia, however, there is a twist to the argument. It isn’t simply, We’re born this way,
so don’t judge us. They add this: And don’t worry—we’re not a threat to your children.

This is the argument that appeared in a September 21 Salon.com article headlined, “I’m a Pedophile,
But Not a Monster.” The author, a man named Todd Nickerson, wrote:

I’ve been stuck with the most unfortunate of sexual orientations, a preference for a group of
people who are legally, morally and psychologically unable to reciprocate my feelings and desires.
..Yet, I’m not the monster you think me to be. I’ve never touched a child sexually in my life and
never will, nor do I use child pornography.

In still another example, this past Sunday’s edition of British paper the Independent contained an article by a prominent psychologist, Dr. Glenn Wilson. The title: “Not All Pedophiles Are Bad People—We Need to Have a Sense of Proportion.” The article reads:

In my studies of the Pedophile Information Exchange in the 1980s, many members admitted sexual feelings for children which they had been able to contain or turn to social good. Some gravitated toward occupations such as schoolteacher or social worker, where they could enjoy the company of children without plotting abuse. … It is possible to be attracted to children as a sexual orientation without acting upon those desires.

So—in this man’s view, these feelings can apparently be turned to social good. This psychologist
spoke to the Telegraph, and said that “pedophilia should be viewed as a type of ‘sexual orientation’
which is not necessarily acted upon” (emphasis added).

Ask yourself: Does the idea that pedophiles won’t necessarily act on their desire to have sex
with children comfort you? Would you support a pedophile who wants to be your child’s teacher
or social worker so he can “enjoy the company of children”?
Does it reassure you that “it is possible” to be attracted to children without acting on that?

This Salon.com article is aimed at helping you sympathize with a celibate man who
is attracted to children. But even he says that anyone who acts on those feelings is
a “monster.” The psychologist in Britain says everything is OK because pedophiles
probably won’t prey on children.

But think about this: If genetics determine morality, then why would it be wrong
for a pedophile to gratify his desires?

How does it make sense to label a “born that way” pedophile who fulfills his desires
a “monster”—but then to say that a “born that way” homosexual should fulfill his
desires and even marry, because he was “born that way”?

Add to that the “pedophilia epidemic” in Hollywood, exposed this past summer
in the film An Open Secret. These are people with enormous social influence.

You can’t have it both ways. Either genetics determines morality or it doesn’t.
And the truth is—it doesn’t.

Hollywood’s Pedophilia Epidemic Exposed in ‘An Open Secret’ - The Daily Beast#

Many researchers taking a different view of pedophilia - latimes

As Selwyn Duke recently wrote,
Today, mainly due to the effort to legitimize homosexuality, the notion that “it’s okay if I was born that way” has taken hold. Often articulated as “God doesn’t make mistakes,” it’s rhetorically very effective. Of course, whether an atheist who considers the world naturally flawed or a theist believing it supernaturally fallen, cleft lip, Spina bifida, Down syndrome, club foot, Tay-Sachs disease, and other abnormalities make clear that God’s perfection isn’t enjoyed by man. And is it logical to consider the brain the one organ immune from this imperfection? Note also that the same psychologists telling us homosexuality is innate also say that psychopaths are born and not made. Now, if some people were born with homicidal instincts, would it be alright for them to commit murder?

In truth, if it is wrong to condone pedophilia despite some people supposedly being born with it,
then it is also wrong to justify homosexuality for that reason.

People Are Trying to Normalize Pedophilia now
https://www.thetrumpet.com/article/13207.2.0.0/get-ready-people-are-trying-to-normalize-pedophilia
 
P

PeacefulWarrior

Guest
Sorry, but I disagree. His words ARE IN THE BIBLE. He spoke very clearly on the subject of gayness. Whether he spoke from heaven or earth is irrelevant. He DID speak on homosexuality and sexual immorality!! Why you and Magenta don't understand that, truly baffles me. From heaven, or on earth, He did speak on the topic.
Irrelevant to you, perhaps.
I'm done, Blue.

No point in attempting to bridge a gap when one side doesn't want to be joined to the other.
Forget what Paul said about church unity.
Let us continue to form our self-righteous cliques.

This isn't what Jesus spoke--but it's what we're doing.

CC will remain a small niche--a clique--because we are slow to listen and hasty to speak.
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
70,920
9,669
113
I have no dog in this fight but I must say there are times I can look at a guy and know he's gay. Not always, not even often, but definitely more than once in a while. There's a genetic look about them; a tight upper lip, high cheek bones and squinty eyes.

Former NJ Governor Jim McGreevey fits the profile perfectly. I know four guys who look like him and they're all gay. Its not like I know thousands of guys who look like McGreevey and only four are gay; I only know those four and they're all gay. Coincidence? Maybe. Maybe not.
It's easy to spot a gay person. You can tell by how they look, act and talk. Their walk, their mannerisms, their careers..
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
70,920
9,669
113
Irrelevant to you, perhaps.
I'm done, Blue.

No point in attempting to bridge a gap when one side doesn't want to be joined to the other.
Forget what Paul said about church unity.
Let us continue to form our self-righteous cliques.

This isn't what Jesus spoke--but it's what we're doing.

CC will remain a small niche--a clique--because we are slow to listen and hasty to speak.

Then please enlighten me as to why he spoke from heaven or earth, is or is not irrelevant. The point is he DID speak, it don't matter from where!!!
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
ever read romans 1?

[SUP]18 [/SUP]For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, [SUP]19 [/SUP]because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. [SUP]20 [/SUP]For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, [SUP]21 [/SUP]because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. [SUP]22[/SUP]Professing to be wise, they became fools, [SUP]23 [/SUP]and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.

[SUP]24 [/SUP]Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, [SUP]25 [/SUP]who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

[SUP]26 [/SUP]For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. [SUP]27 [/SUP]Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

[SUP]28 [/SUP]And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; [SUP]29 [/SUP]being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality,[SUP][c][/SUP] wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, [SUP]30 [/SUP]backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, [SUP]31 [/SUP]undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving,[SUP][d][/SUP] unmerciful; [SUP]32 [/SUP]who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.

So yeah, EVERYONE! I think God in his inspired words through Paul makes that quite clear..

What people say does not matter, I can say I am born a gay all I want, it does not mean it is true, or that I really believe it..
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
70,920
9,669
113
Irrelevant to you, perhaps.
I'm done, Blue.

No point in attempting to bridge a gap when one side doesn't want to be joined to the other.
Forget what Paul said about church unity.
Let us continue to form our self-righteous cliques.

This isn't what Jesus spoke--but it's what we're doing.

CC will remain a small niche--a clique--because we are slow to listen and hasty to speak.

So you don't believe he spoke on the subject either? wow.. just wow.. Ignorant comes to mind on that one. :/
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
Kaylagrl and Ladyblue, I was somewhat surprised to read yalls responses, gotta admit that:) I'm not saying God is a liar, I'm expressing my opinion on a subject. We don't know the Lords ways, and we don't know anything about being gay. Leave it all to the Lord and bring what's troublesome to Him in prayer:)
Jennymae this is becoming a free for all. Everyone is begging to attack each other personally. So let me be very clear,I am not attacking you personally. But we do know what the Lords ways are when it comes to homosexuality. Your post was wrong.God did not make people gay,or give them a cross to bear and yes,they can change.Its all very clear in the Word. So Im making a comment on your opinion only,not attacking you or your character. Im just pointing out what the Word says.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.