Question on post trib rapture.

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GaryA

Guest
#61
#61
ggs7 said:
Is Christ returning a third time????
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No. Everything you read in the Bible about the coming of Christ, that is not referring to the First Coming of Christ, is referring to the Second Coming of Christ. There is no Third Coming of Christ.

All future 'Coming of Christ' events will happen - in the correct order - at the Second Coming of Christ.

:)
 
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GaryA

Guest
#63
#63
eternally-gratefull said:
it would be very assuming to believe the trump of those passages, would be the same as the seventh trump of revelation.
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And, it would be a good assumption... :D


eternally-gratefull said:
they may be, Most likely they are not. But we have to use ALL scripture to determine.. Not just a few verses.
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Yes -- all scripture; however, you don't discount a verse of scripture that says something "blatently obvious" ( i.e. - "Immediately after the tribulation of those days" ) so that you can justify what you think some other scripture might say ( that is not-nearly-so-blatently-obvious ).

If you do not understand how all of the verses on-the-subject fit together, then keep studying. However, you should not ignore the "blatently obvious" parts of scripture in favor of something you want it to say -- start with the "blatently obvious" parts - and 'build' your understanding from there...

:)
 
Ahwatukee

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
#65
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,375
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#65
Devonmcknight68 said:
Is the last trumpet in 1 Thessalonians 4 and 1 Corinthians 15:52 the seventh trumpet in revelation? And if so doesn't that mean it's a post trib rapture? I haven't sided either or quite yet and it just seems there's good scripture on both.

1 Corinthian 15:52 "in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed"
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Greetings Devonmcknight68,

The assumption that the 7th trumpet is the last trumpet spoken of in 1 Cor.15:52 is based primarily on the fact that the 7th trumpet is the last trumpet of that set and that is the only reason.

First of all, the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments are the wrath of God and there are no blessings connected with them, which is what the gathering of the church would be.

Second, there is absolutely nothing in the context of the scripture regarding the 7th trumpet or surrounding trumpets, that even hints at a resurrection or the living being changed and caught up.

And third, by making the 7th trumpet the last trumpet, it would put the church through the majority of God's wrath, which scripture states that Jesus has rescued us from (1 Thes.1:10) and that we are not appointed to suffer (1 Thes.5:9).

Again, this interpretation is solely based on the fact that the 7th trumpet is the last one in that set of trumpet judgments, the emphasis being on judgments. There are different types of trumpets mentioned in God's word and so one would need to find out what type of trumpet the "Last trumpet" is referring to. But again, just because the 7th trumpet is the 7th trumpet does not mean that it is that last trumpet spoken of, especially when the context of the 7th trumpet is lacking regarding any information regarding the resurrection and catching away.
 
Ahwatukee

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
#66
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,375
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#66
GaryA said:
the 144,000 - at the very least... ;)

:)
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Hello GaryA,

The 144,000 which is the Male child, will be caught up to God and his throne in the middle of the seven years. Those who will be left to repopulate the millennial period will be the woman/Israel who will have been cared for out in that place that God will have prepared for them for that last 3 1/2 years, which will have been prompted by the abomination being set up. And the other group will be the great tribulation saints who make it through alive to the end when Jesus returns to end the age.
 
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DP

Banned
#67
Sep 27, 2015
3,325
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#67
Ahwatukee said:
Greetings Devonmcknight68,

The assumption that the 7th trumpet is the last trumpet spoken of in 1 Cor.15:52 is based primarily on the fact that the 7th trumpet is the last trumpet of that set and that is the only reason.

....
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More propaganda above from the false crept in unawares of Jude.

1 Cor.15 is a Chapter about the Resurrection, and with what kind of body it comes.

1 Thess.4:16 is about the Resurrection also, and is the SAME events in 1 Cor.15, along with the gathering to Christ Jesus.

Notice Ahwatukee's statement above has NO MENTION of the 'resurrection' in it to try and draw you off track of what those two Chapters are actually about.

And WE KNOW... PER GOD'S WORD, the Resurrection event is to happen on the LAST DAY OF THIS WORLD, which definitely has to mean on the very final angel sounding like God showed in Revelation 10.
 
Ahwatukee

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
#68
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,375
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#68
DP said:
More propaganda above from the false crept in unawares of Jude.

1 Cor.15 is a Chapter about the Resurrection, and with what kind of body it comes.

1 Thess.4:16 is about the Resurrection also, and is the SAME events in 1 Cor.15, along with the gathering to Christ Jesus.

Notice Ahwatukee's statement above has NO MENTION of the 'resurrection' in it to try and draw you off track of what those two Chapters are actually about.

And WE KNOW... PER GOD'S WORD, the Resurrection event is to happen on the LAST DAY OF THIS WORLD, which definitely has to mean on the very final angel sounding like God showed in Revelation 10.
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Notice Ahwatukee's statement above has NO MENTION of the 'resurrection' in it to try and draw you off track of what those two Chapters are actually about.
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Regarding the above, why would I have to mention the resurrection specifically, when I listed the scripture which is speaking about the resurrection and is the one that Devonmcknight68 quoted as a reference. Besides that, I referred to the resurrection in many other places within the post. What you a deliberate trouble maker?


Propaganda? Please show us any information within the context of the 7th trumpet that mentions anything about the resurrection and catching away. And by the way, my purpose is not to deceive people DP. I am not trying to draw anyone off track, but am trying to use scripture to show that, just because the 7th trumpet is the last trumpet of that set, it does not mean that it is the "Last trumpet" spoken of in 1 Cor.15:52. Anyone who attempts to claim that the 7th trumpet is the last trumpet is doing so by pure conjecture. As I said, the trumpet judgments are apart of God's wrath and there are no blessings mentioned in that scripture. Simply stated, show me any information within the scripture of the 7th trumpet that mentions anything regarding the resurrection and catching away. I'll let the lack of information in the scripture regarding this subject speak for itself.

You on the other hand, run into a number of problems in your attempt to put the gathering of the church at the 7th trumpet, namely putting the church through God's wrath. Furthermore, the angel in Revelation 10 is speaking about the angel who sounds the 7th trumpet, which is not the end, for after that 7th trumpet is sounded, it is then followed by seven bowl judgments. As proof that Jesus will have not returned to the earth by the pouring out of the 6th bowl, he interjects with the following:

"Look, I come like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake and remains clothed, so as not to go naked and be shamefully exposed"

The fact that after the 6th bowl is poured out that Jesus is making the above announcement, would demonstrate that he will not have yet returned.
 
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PlainWord

Senior Member
#69
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
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#69
eternally-gratefull said:
If when Jesus returns. All the unbelievers are killed. and the believers are raptured. Who is left to enter the 1000 year reign of Christ?
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Where are you getting this doctrine from? This is an untrue statement. Christ does not kill all unbelievers. He only kills those who come up against Jerusalem, those who have accepted the mark, the name, or the number of the name of the Beast.

Zechariah 14:12

And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

The "tares" are part of this group as they support the Beast.
 
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DP

Banned
#70
Sep 27, 2015
3,325
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#70
Ahwatukee said:
Regarding the above, why would I have to mention the resurrection specifically, when I listed the scripture which is speaking about the resurrection and is the one that Devonmcknight68 quoted as a reference. Besides that, I referred to the resurrection in many other places within the post. What you a deliberate trouble maker?


Propaganda? Please show us any information within the context of the 7th trumpet that mentions anything about the resurrection and catching away. And by the way, my purpose is not to deceive people DP. I am not trying to draw anyone off track, but am trying to use scripture to show that, just because the 7th trumpet is the last trumpet of that set, it does not mean that it is the "Last trumpet" spoken of in 1 Cor.15:52. Anyone who attempts to claim that the 7th trumpet is the last trumpet is doing so by pure conjecture. As I said, the trumpet judgments are apart of God's wrath and there are no blessings mentioned in that scripture. Simply stated, show me any information within the scripture of the 7th trumpet that mentions anything regarding the resurrection and catching away. I'll let the lack of information in the scripture regarding this subject speak for itself.

You on the other hand, run into a number of problems in your attempt to put the gathering of the church at the 7th trumpet, namely putting the church through God's wrath. Furthermore, the angel in Revelation 10 is speaking about the angel who sounds the 7th trumpet, which is not the end, for after that 7th trumpet is sounded, it is then followed by seven bowl judgments. As proof that Jesus will have not returned to the earth by the pouring out of the 6th bowl, he interjects with the following:

"Look, I come like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake and remains clothed, so as not to go naked and be shamefully exposed"

The fact that after the 6th bowl is poured out that Jesus is making the above announcement, would demonstrate that he will not have yet returned.
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I used to think you were just deceived away from Holy Writ on these things, but now I've decided you're actually a deceiver doing it on purpose. There's just too many simple Scriptures written that you go directly against for me to think you're just deceived only.

How could any believer who heeds God's Word not understand 1 Cor.15 and 1 Thess.4 are both about the time of the resurrection?

And being ignorant of that is one thing, but to even ask for one to prove it, well, that's all the proof I need that you're a deceiver, and not just deceived only.
 
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justababe

Guest
#71
#71
If anyone really thinks that God is not capable of shielding His own people while pouring out His wrath on the wicked then they should read the Exodus story again. The fact is that Israel in Egypt is the prophetic type for the church in the world and Israel was in Egypt until the last plague, which was death, passed through the land. Jesus is our Passover Lamb and we will be here when death passes through the land.

I do believe that all of the trumps or trumpets are connected and they all point to the last day. John 6:40 tells us that is when the resurrection of believers will take place and 1 Thessalonians 4 tells us that the resurrection must take place before the rapture of the living church. Simple logic then forces us to conclude that the rapture has to take place on the LAST day as well.

I'm amazed at how complex the false theory of the pre-trib rapture has become. I think it is an attempt to explain away solid scriptural proof against it along with a lot of assumptions about what God would or would not do that really don't take all scripture into consideration.
 
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truthman8

Guest
#72
#72
The Rapture is post tribulation, at the end of the 1335 days, 45 of which are the reign of terror of the antichrist via the abomination of desolation. It occurs, I believe, just shortly after Christ lands on the planet with the angels, also known as the watchers (UFOs). Interesting, though, is that the Battle called Armageddon happens about two years later. Revelation reveals the order: 2nd Coming when the Beast's kingdom is plunged into darkness (behold I come as a thief), the angel comes out of the temple and reaps his harvest (the Temple represents the Rapture, which is the "union of physical and spiritual life), and then Armageddon when the next angel reaps his harvest, when the blood comes up to the bridles of the horses, one of the descriptions of that battle.
 
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GaryA

Guest
#73
#73
Consider this:

Those of the first resurrection will have their glorified bodies before the Wrath of God is "poured out" upon the earth...

( and will most likely not even be on the face of the earth - but rather, above it - during that time )

:)
 
D

DP

Banned
#74
Sep 27, 2015
3,325
41
0
#74
justababe said:
If anyone really thinks that God is not capable of shielding His own people while pouring out His wrath on the wicked then they should read the Exodus story again. The fact is that Israel in Egypt is the prophetic type for the church in the world and Israel was in Egypt until the last plague, which was death, passed through the land. Jesus is our Passover Lamb and we will be here when death passes through the land.

I do believe that all of the trumps or trumpets are connected and they all point to the last day. John 6:40 tells us that is when the resurrection of believers will take place and 1 Thessalonians 4 tells us that the resurrection must take place before the rapture of the living church. Simple logic then forces us to conclude that the rapture has to take place on the LAST day as well.

I'm amazed at how complex the false theory of the pre-trib rapture has become. I think it is an attempt to explain away solid scriptural proof against it along with a lot of assumptions about what God would or would not do that really don't take all scripture into consideration.
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Most of the pre-trib rapture folks don't really care about that Bible history. They're spiritually drunken on a doctrine of men and will defend it to the death, because God has blinded their eyes so they may not see, and they are hard of hearing. But in Isaiah 28, God said He is going to disannull their covenant with death. And in Ezekiel 13 He said He is going to tear the souls of His people out of the hands of the false prophets that teach His people to fly to save their soul.
 
D

DP

Banned
#75
Sep 27, 2015
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#75
truthman8 said:
The Rapture is post tribulation, at the end of the 1335 days, 45 of which are the reign of terror of the antichrist via the abomination of desolation. It occurs, I believe, just shortly after Christ lands on the planet with the angels, also known as the watchers (UFOs). Interesting, though, is that the Battle called Armageddon happens about two years later. Revelation reveals the order: 2nd Coming when the Beast's kingdom is plunged into darkness (behold I come as a thief), the angel comes out of the temple and reaps his harvest (the Temple represents the Rapture, which is the "union of physical and spiritual life), and then Armageddon when the next angel reaps his harvest, when the blood comes up to the bridles of the horses, one of the descriptions of that battle.
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And then Mickey Mouse shows up pronouncing Walt Disney is The Messiah! You are so funny.
 
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popeye

Guest
#76
#76
DP said:
Well, you definitely shouldn't come to forums like these and expect to hear the Truth without an over-abundant amount of rubbish from men's doctrines to try and turn your heart away.

Your church can't save you. Only Jesus Christ can. Your father-in-law cannot save you. Only Jesus Christ can.
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............as you ignore the pretrib rapture verses.
 
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DP

Banned
#77
Sep 27, 2015
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#77
popeye said:
............as you ignore the pretrib rapture verses.
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No such thing as a secret pre-trib rapture written anywhere... in God's Word. That's just a big lolly-pop you've chosen to suck on.
 
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popeye

Guest
#78
#78
truthman8 said:
The Rapture is post tribulation, at the end of the 1335 days, 45 of which are the reign of terror of the antichrist via the abomination of desolation. It occurs, I believe, just shortly after Christ lands on the planet with the angels, also known as the watchers (UFOs). Interesting, though, is that the Battle called Armageddon happens about two years later. Revelation reveals the order: 2nd Coming when the Beast's kingdom is plunged into darkness (behold I come as a thief), the angel comes out of the temple and reaps his harvest (the Temple represents the Rapture, which is the "union of physical and spiritual life), and then Armageddon when the next angel reaps his harvest, when the blood comes up to the bridles of the horses, one of the descriptions of that battle.
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Show us ONE postrib RAPTURE verse.

I will wait
 
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popeye

Guest
#79
#79
DP said:
No such thing as a secret pre-trib rapture written anywhere... in God's Word. That's just a big lolly-pop you've chosen to suck on.
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What a nasty reply.

Get right with God.
He will clean you up friend

BTW,ONLY POSTRIBS USE ALL THOSE CLICHES. THAT IS THE ONLY PLACE I HEAR THEM.
But I do not blame you. It is those teachers you quote in your postrib rapture workbook
 
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popeye

Guest
#80
#80
DP said:
No such thing as a secret pre-trib rapture written anywhere... in God's Word. That's just a big lolly-pop you've chosen to suck on.
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There is a really nasty hateful spirit operating in most postrib rapture adherents.

I hope people will get red flags from this apparent spirit operating in them
 
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