Obedience & righteousness - extreme grace version

[nu2see]

While I do agree with being open to receive them back when we see the fruits of repentance. But until that happens..it is very scriptural to distance yourself from them that act unbecoming.

Even Paul refused to have John Mark come on their journey with Barnabas but later said that John Mark was useful to him...so there is always hope for restoration but not at the compromise of truth.

Ignore is good for all those involved as you can't see what they are posting. The Lord can lead us to when it's time to re-connect. I leave it in His hands. I trust the Holy Spirit to lead us.

Galatians 5:9 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] A little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough.


Titus 3:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Reject a factious man after a first and second warning,


Matthew 10:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] "Whoever does not receive you, nor heed your words, as you go out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet.

Acts 13:51 (NASB)
[SUP]51 [/SUP] But they shook off the dust of their feet in protest against them and went to Iconium.

Grace, you know I love you brother,
but I disagree with you on this one,
and using bits of scripture out of context makes it worse.

Shaking the dust off your feet after
presenting the gospel can't be compared to
2000 years later two brothers disagreeing
on the internet, and them being childish and
stomping their feet and saying,
'well then I'm just gonna ignore you, so there, mnah!'

They were the apostles traveling by foot,
city by city to preach the gospel,
not a few retired folk sitting at their computers chatting,
but if you want to hold the comparison literally,
then you would have to leave the site (city).

Wipe the fingerprints off your touchscreen and leave, right?
Do you see what I mean?
Nobody is expecting anybody to do that,
but that would be comparable.

And the other scripture would require
kicking those who disagree off the site,
like kicking heretics out of church,
but no one's doing that, either.

So the scripture bits just don't really apply here.
But I get your frustration, believe me,
sometimes I hafta go aarrgghh, but
we've got to rise above the temptation
to hit the ignore button.

You yourself said you'll leave it in the Lord's hands.
Ok, then leave the ignore button there, too.

Be the bigger man and let the light of God's love be
what attracts someone to your Saviour.
Hide it under a bushel? NO. Let it shine!

 

[Angela53510]

Well...

I've spent my breaks studying Greek today trying to get through this thread.

First: Grace vs works-righteousness. AGAIN!! I hold PJ responsible for this thread, since he started with the express stated purpose of slandering EG.

Why slander? Because he doesn't know EG. He doesn't know ember. He doesn't know Grace777. He doesn't know Budman. And he certainly doesn't know me.

Yet his OP says over and over that "they" sin willfully. That "they" don't follow Christ. That "they" etc, etc. He has no idea how any of us live, and whether our live are devoted to following Jesus, which naturally includes obeying God.

Second: With regards to soteriology

The OP is totally clueless as to what the Bible says about salvation, as many have pointed out on this thread (did I read something about missing ANOTHER grace vs works-righteousness thread yesterday? No wonder I have pulled back to study Greek full time.)

Soteriology - how we are saved. And I think I have posted this about 10 times but some people need to hear it again and again and again.... My prayer is that one day God will enlighten the eyes of the hearts of people like PJ and HeRose and they will finally get what people have been saying for several years in this forum, and elsewhere since the NT was written..

Three words:

Justification
Sanctification
Glorification.

PJ and other works -righteousness people like him, get the first two stages mixed up. They somehow thing that you must walk with God to be justified. And that being sanctified justifies them. Not sure how glorification fits into their perverted interpretation of soteriology, but I will just deal with all three.

Justification: "Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ." Romans 5:1

" Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith." Gal. 3:11

"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast." Eph. 2:8-9

So we are justified not by our own doing but by faith - which is a GIFT of God. Justification is a "once for all time" action by God upon the believer.

People criticize my use of Greek, but although it is right there in the English, the Greek really says it all. Δικαιωθέντες or dikaiothentes is an Aorist Passive Participle. Aorist means that it happened at an undefined moment in the past which is a completed action. Passive means the action is done by God upon the subject. So the first term "justification" is something done by God to us, and completed.

If it is completed, and God did it, then how can we have to do something, (like works!) to be righteous? By the way, righteous comes from the same root as "justification." In other words, we are made righteous by God, which is our justification. So righteous is δίκαιος and justify is δικαιῶσαι (or in this case, this is the infinitive). Fortunately, dikaios is not hard to read in Greek. The letters should be familiar.

So here we have it - God is the one who justifies. Right? Any objections???

"οὓς δὲ προώρισεν, τούτους καὶ ἐκάλεσεν· καὶ οὓς ἐκάλεσεν, τούτους καὶ ἐδικαίωσεν· οὓς δὲ ἐδικαίωσεν, τούτους καὶ ἐδόξασεν: Romans 8:30

Here we have it again in Romans 8:30. And this is where glorification comes in - God calls, and justifies - a completed action in the past! Edikaiosen or ἐδικαίωσεν is "justified" or "made righteous."

Sanctification - So moving on to the middle term, sanctified. In Greek to "be holy" is to "be sancified." It is the SAME word! This is VERY important! Anyone that says someone is not walking with God, is missing the importance of the fact that it is once again GOD who sanctifies or makes us holy.

"And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all" Hebrews 10:10

"ἡγιασμένοι ἐσμὲν διὰ τῆς προσφορᾶς τοῦ σώματος Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ ἐφάπαξ." Hebrews 10:10 Greek.

We have been sanctified or ""ἡγιασμένοι ἐσμὲν" or hagiasmenoi esmen, is a periphrastic phrase, meaning that esmen, is from the verb eimi or "to be" in English. The Participle is perfect passive. That means, once again, it is something God does to us, and it emphasizes in this verse, the completed state or condition.

Sanctification is the walk we have with Jesus Christ, through the power of the Holy Spirit. Another word that we can use is "transformed." This word only appears 3 times in the NT, so it is very important. It is in the passive tense all three times. The first time it is about Jesus being transformed at the transfiguration. Romans 12:2 has very important implications for this discussion.

"Do not be conformed to this world,but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect. Romans 12:2

The words "be transformed" in the Greek is one word μεταμορφοῦσθε or metamorphousthe. It is the Present Imperative Passive. It means "to be transformed in your innermost nature BY GOD." IN OTHER WORDS, "let yourselves be transformed by God."

Glorification - technically this word, the noun is not in the Bible. But glorified the is, as we noted see Romans 8:30 above.

"And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified." Romans 8:30


Glorified is the Aorist Indicative Active, and speaks of God who sees the end from the beginning and in whose decree and purpose all future events are fulfilled. In other words, God has said it will happen, and it will. It is not something WE do, but that God has done to us. He already knows who will be glorified, and that is the same people that he pre-destined, called and justified. It is simply never about the individual self.


So Peter and others who are stumbling along the way, the theology is very clear. God justifies, sanctifies and glorifies us. That is salvation!

To say anything else, is to put yourself in the place of God. Only God can change the inner most heart. And by changing us, he helps us to obey him in all good things. And when we fall, he enables us to get back up and follow him.

Over and over and over - until we become conformed to the image of Christ, and one day, when we die, or when Jesus returns, God will glorify us. What a glorious day that will be!

 

[posthuman]

occasional miraculous healings.

it really only took that one occasion for me to be healed & made clean. after all, He already perfected all those who are being sanctified, yes?

i think it's closer to the truth to say that occasionally, the fog lifts, or there's a break in the clouds -- occasionally we see clearly.

 

[posthuman]

claim to be perfect

i find more often that it's God who claims i am perfect, and me who winds up disputing it.

by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.
(Hebrews 10:14)


​

"this is an hard teaching"

 

[posthuman]

GOD's grace gives us the ability to live like that.

in other words, it "empowers" us?

​

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

i find more often that it's God who claims i am perfect, and me who winds up disputing it.

by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.
(Hebrews 10:14)


​

"this is an hard teaching"

He said Job was perfect, but Job said if he said (of his own self) that he (himself) was perfect that it would prove him perverse. If you ever study it and how each uses it, even Jesus, and Paul and James they seem to all be aware of that same principal, and when they say it its not in respects to themselves but another, or as a matter of factly, or an all inclusiveness in the admission. Its actually pretty cool when you lay it out and look how they speak, because they seem to follow Job's rule in it.

For example Job said,

Job 9:20 If I justify myself, mine own mouth shall condemn me:
if I say, I am perfect, it shall also prove me perverse.

Whereas Paul said...

Phl 3:12 Not as though I had already attained,either were already perfect: but I follow after,
if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

Phil 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended

Yet down further says...

Phil 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded:
and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

So if in "anything"(in the above) that ye be "otherwise minded" (when ye should be thus minded)
God shall even reveal even this unto you.

Paul (IMO was perfect) spake (being minded) in the same "not as though" or were either (already) perfect" (to me "shows that")

Phl 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect
How he counted himself

(Which is keeping also with Jobs words) when he said,

if I say, I am perfect, it shall also prove me perverse. (even though God counted him perfect)

But Paul saying rather,

Phil 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended

Yet he could say (in the same breath)

Phil 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded:

and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

There are others, but this one always captivated me, not so much this example but various ones, like the same threading, you can see it in "If we say (about ourselves) that we have no sin we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us" in otherwords it proves you just as perverse in the same sense Job speaks concerning saying (of yourself) that you are perfect.

But there are perfect and non perfect in the sense its meant as Paul indicates how he can speak wisdom among the perfect, but elsewhere not in the same way as unto them who were yet carnal (that sort of thing).

Thats a really great study to take on actually and really examine their speech.

 

[ladylynn]

Righteousness is having the heart of God, and because you do, you do righteous things.

The spirit speaking here is a spirit of rebellion and destruction against morality, saying morality does not matter.

Their accusation is people only behave righteously because they think they will earn there way to heaven.

The idea righteous behaviour is life itself, it is the flow of the Kingdom of heaven, it is what Jesus empowers us to be, has not crossed their minds.

People are so cynical and judgemental, even a good work done by a sinner is evil.

These people have no heart.

Hey Peter, what you say here shows you are not seeing something that is SOOOOOOOOO important. You write ;

People are so cynical and judgemental, even a good work done by a sinner is evil.

These people have no heart.

This is not the idea of people here on this forum., it's God's idea Peter. Before people are saved all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags. Man's righteousness is not good or righteous at all. An unsaved person can do wonderful things with a kind wonderful heart and yet that kind and wonderful person would go to hell. That person must accept the gift of the righteousness, forgiveness of sins and eternal life in Jesus Christ.

This sounds harsh but it is God's standard. Man's goodness is not good enough. We need the righteousness of Christ. And we accept it as a gift. We cannot do righteousness, we receive righteousness as a gift from Jesus Christ.

It's to secure that ONLY Jesus gets the glory and not anyone else. Eph.2:8-9 For by grace are you saved through faith and that not of yourselves, it is a gift of God not of works lest any man should boast. We are HIS workmanship CREATED IN CHRIST UNTO GOOD WORKS.

The only reason we can do good things after we get saved is because we have been given a new spirit and a new heart. (a new heart and a new spirit will I give them) Only then are we able to do any righteous things as we are submitting to the Spirit and not our old habits of the flesh.

It is the Holy Spirit's out flowing not ours that empowers us. It's not "our" righteous behavior, it's submitting to Jesus righteousness. Jesus always gets the glory not us. It's the power that "worketh in us."

Actually it is good news that we are not able to do what it takes to get to God. That is what makes it secure. It is a work done by Jesus Christ for us and it is a perfect work. We accept it as the beautiful gift it is and go on from there IN Christ UNTO good works.

 

[ladylynn]

And by this we know that we know [GOD]: if we keep his commandments. The one who says “I know him,” and does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in this person. 1 John 2:3-4

"Without faith it is impossible to please God." "The just shall live by faith." We are called to walk by faith and not by sight. Ours is the obedience of "faith" and in doing that 1st obedience, the other good works will naturally flow out of us who walk by faith and not by sight.


An unsaved person can work out of the flesh and do many many good works. But it takes a born again spirit filled man to obey from the heart because he has a new heart and a new spirit that can now walk by faith in the finished work of Christ.

Our dependence is not in our works, but in the finished work of Christ. That is where our faith rests.

 

[TMS]

You can't separate faith and works, Like a tree, are the roots or the branches more important.

 

[ladylynn]

How do you stay saved if you stop doing the will of GOD?

When we accepted Jesus Christ as our Savior we are given a new heart and a new spirit. Our new man desires to DO the will of God. His ways are now part of us because we now have a new spirit, we have the Holy Spirit IN us to teach and to guide and to comfort. He reminds us daily of our righteous standing IN Christ. That is how we can do the will of God out of a true heart. He gives us the desires of our heart now.

 

[ladylynn]

lets' have a look at these posts that state you can go on sinning after you are saved

if you are not going to provide them, then maybe you should stop talking about them

CERTAIN people here do not understand the gospel

that, is the actual problem

NO ONE HAS STATED WE ARE FREE TO SIN AND GO ABOUT OUR DAILY BUSINESS AND IGNORE CHRIST

THAT, IS NOT SALVATION IN ANYONE'S BOOK

just on and on and on and on in thread after thread and if someone starts another thread, even if it is unrelated to the subject at hand, along comes herose or some other legalist advocate, and turns the thread into the ONLY discussion they seem to want to participate in

thread after thread that might have been edifying, has been derailed, twisted and maligned

it is so past time that this continues

so again, let's have the posts from the responders that state we are free to sin?

and don't present something from a new member for the obvious reasons...let's have the statement we are free to sin from the ones YOU accuse herose, of making those statements

not holding my breath

Hey ember., I've noticed that because of these constant threads of works vs grace people are actually hearing the Gospel

Because of the constant re writing., re iterating, repeating, re posting..., that many have changed their views about the true salvation of grace and not works! Not only that, the new people who come in who don't always post or have yet to post are reading the continual threads. So in all, Jesus is being preached and it's really encouraging.

OHHHH loved that doggy picture!!! Blessings sis!

 

[ladylynn]

“The very center and core of the whole Bible is the doctrine of the grace of God.”
–J. Gresham Machen


“Grace” is the most important concept in the Bible, Christianity, and the world. It is most clearly expressed in the promises of God revealed in Scripture and embodied in Jesus Christ.

Grace is the love of God shown to the unlovely; the peace of God given to the restless; the unmerited favor of God.

Amen!, and so beautifully put ember. To be loved unconditionally. To have the love of God that is motivated by Him and not something we do or something we are in ourselves. To be unlovely and made lovely. To be given the righteousness of Christ and made new.

I just loved what J. Gresham Machen said here. And what you added about the concept of grace. Amen!

 

[ladylynn]

So what happens when you believe in Christ, but don't do his will?

When we accept the love of God the Bible says that "we love Him because He first loved us." God is the One who loves first. And then we can love God back. Jesus is our example and when we are given a revelation of the love of God in our hearts, we fall out of love with self and more in love with Jesus. His love constrains us and motivates our new hearts and new man.

"The Hebrew Lexicon describes "shalom" as completeness, safty, soundness in body, welfare, health, prosperity, peace, quiet, tranquility, contentment, peace used of human relationships, peace with God especially in covenant relationship and peace from war." It's the shalom Jesus bequeathed to us."

"There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love."

We have shalom peace because of what Jesus accomplished for us. His love will cast out fears that come daily. Thank you Jesus.

 

[ladylynn]

I think we could take a tour around the world and find millions of people who believe in Christ and are not doing his will.

Exactly!!! We are told so often NOT to look at people. Those who look at and compare themselves with and by themselves are foolish. We are to look to Jesus the Author and Finisher of our faith. He is the standard and the One we are supposed to learn about.

Ephesians 3:16-21 that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with power through His Spirit in the inner man;

so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; and that you, being rooted and grounded in love,

may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth,

And to know the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled up to all the fulness of God. Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly beyond all that we ask or think, according to the power that works within us,

To Him be the glory in the church and in Christ Jesus to all generations forever and ever. Amen.

 

[PeterJens]

I understand where you are coming from. It is educational.
You hold me guilt of being anti-gospel, of heinous crimes against God, of insulting you all.

Now if someone says I sin everyday, I have these problems I am not dealing with, it is not a slander to say they are caught in sin.

If the theological position I hold says all future sin is forgiven, then I have lost the need for moral responsibility.

My question to all of you is simple. When are you going to walk like Jesus? How is this possible?

Now you can continue to walk in failure, which you are happy to do, and not clean your hearts, take captive your thoughts unto Christ, but you are doing yourself harm. In essence this is the gospel. Sin destroys your soul, the purity and love that is within.

This is the message Jesus brought, you can walk in this purity and love, you can share with fellow believers in this reality.

Now I am on a journey with the Lord, a journey of discovery. Why does the Lord not give us the answer to the doors we need to enter? Maybe because we need to discover it for ourselves, to unpack the truth He has, because if He gives it to one, He gives it to all, which denies purity and righteousness itself.

People talk of salvation as if it is a equation. Someone said it is more than just a prayer. But it actually is just a prayer to the Living God which He honours. You could say all our relationships are just words. But it is much more complex.

 

[PeterJens]

Well...

I've spent my breaks studying Greek today trying to get through this thread.

First: Grace vs works-righteousness. AGAIN!! I hold PJ responsible for this thread, since he started with the express stated purpose of slandering EG.

Why slander? Because he doesn't know EG. He doesn't know ember. He doesn't know Grace777. He doesn't know Budman. And he certainly doesn't know me.

Yet his OP says over and over that "they" sin willfully. That "they" don't follow Christ. That "they" etc, etc. He has no idea how any of us live, and whether our live are devoted to following Jesus, which naturally includes obeying God.

There is a problem here.

People were asked about their spiritual state and their daily experience with the Lord.
Time and again it was said, I confess sin daily. Now it is not a great leap to then say people are caught in sin.
I am not accusing people of anything, I am just stating what people have said. This is admiting failure and not dealing with it.

I would question their definition of sin, and the ability of people to condemn themselves over failures which are not sinful, but in their eyes the behaviour is not acceptable.

Following Christ. This is walking in His ways and being obedient to His commands.

We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands.
1 John 2:3

Now if you claim to follow Jesus, Jesus is clear what His benchmark is. Obedience to His commands.
Now it is up to you to decide where you stand or fail. I am not saying, I am just saying this is what Jesus and the Apostles taught.

If you teach something different you are not following Jesus.

Now some have used the word anti-gospel. If cleaning your heart, walking in purity and righteousness is anti-gospel, then I do not know which gospel you are referring to.

Based on the vehemence of the response, your hearts are challenged but you rest back on your own understanding.

Jesus was not received well with a message of purity of the heart either.

 

[Grace777x70]

Grace, you know I love you brother,
but I disagree with you on this one,
and using bits of scripture out of context makes it worse.

The scriptures are right in line with the what is happening here. We are defending the faith of the gospel of Christ and those that believe will not compromise on that issue no matter who they are. Paul didn't compromise either. This is a very serious issue here.


I understand your emotional sentiment but it is not applicable here in these cases. This will have to be one of those times were people can agree to disagree. The purpose of the ignore button has the wisdom of God on it. It's regrettable that it needs to be done but that is a part of guarding your heart from evil behavior not matter how much we want to make everyone be in unity - some will not play by Christian ethics....those need to be dealt with and seeing that there is no eldership in CC ( as it is not a church ) - we need to protect ourselves.

I look forward to the day that the ignore button is not needed... I know you have a good heart....but as I say we just have to agree to disagree....Bless you!.

 

[PeterJens]

Let me take Grace7x77 suggestion. Compromise. His interpretation, looking through lens of legalism and grace decides which part of the new testament you apply to yourself and which you ignore.

Now this is quite a change in theology and view of scripture. If you question this and bring up problems you are from satan and evil so therefore must be rejected.

Now this is not a consistent approach or even sensible. From the aggression shown it is obvious this is an attempt to declare a theological position and scare off any opposition.

The problem is simple. There is no standard of transformation or goal. It would not surprise me if religion with justification of sinful behaviour becomes the norm because it just makes people feel good about going to heaven and no effort involved, just a small prayer or even just attending the praise group.

 

[Angela53510]

There is a problem here.

People were asked about their spiritual state and their daily experience with the Lord.
Time and again it was said, I confess sin daily. Now it is not a great leap to then say people are caught in sin.
I am not accusing people of anything, I am just stating what people have said. This is admiting failure and not dealing with it.

I would question their definition of sin, and the ability of people to condemn themselves over failures which are not sinful, but in their eyes the behaviour is not acceptable.

Following Christ. This is walking in His ways and being obedient to His commands.

We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands.
1 John 2:3

Now if you claim to follow Jesus, Jesus is clear what His benchmark is. Obedience to His commands.
Now it is up to you to decide where you stand or fail. I am not saying, I am just saying this is what Jesus and the Apostles taught.

If you teach something different you are not following Jesus.

Now some have used the word anti-gospel. If cleaning your heart, walking in purity and righteousness is anti-gospel, then I do not know which gospel you are referring to.

Based on the vehemence of the response, your hearts are challenged but you rest back on your own understanding.

Jesus was not received well with a message of purity of the heart either.

You completely missed my point!

In the OP, you threw out a lot if unverified statements about "they" meaning the people in this forum. You are not the judge. You have no idea how people follow God in this forum. You have no idea if they are obeying God with all their hearts. Yet you judged everyone in you opening post as being "obviously antinomian" because we placed grace before works, and then works coming out of the joy of being was saved, and the Holy Spirit guiding and leading us.

You directly say, "If you teach something different you are not following Jesus."

First, your theology is so poor, and so unsupported here with Scripture, and do lacking in any knowledge of proper hermeneutics, that I will not let you be judge, jury and executioner of my walk with God. The first thing Gid told me the minute I was saved was the major changes in my life he was going to demand of me. But because of my relationship with God, I was eager to obey him, which meant things like quitting drinking, partying and so forth. It also meant positives like daily Bible reading and prayer, serving in church and in the world, stopping swearing and other outward sinful habits.

But it was Christ that gave me a new heart and empowered me to follow him.

"And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh." Ez 36:26

"And you show that you are a letter from Christ delivered by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts 2 Cor. 2:3




There is no one that I know that says you can be saved, and then go your merry way doing whatever you want with a "Get out of Hell Free" card in your back pocket.

That is your antinomian straw man that you have not only set up, but accuse other believers of doing.

And since there is only one "accuser of the brethren" I will leave you with a plea to stop judging the body of Christ!

God is the only judge, and all this accusing just takes you closer to being a messenger of lies. You may be sincere in what you write, but you are sincerely wrong. Your theology is wrong, your judgments are wrong, and you need to start tending to that log in your own eye first!

As for your quote from 1 John 3:2, I know it too well! It is part of a longer passage in first John that we have translated from Greek, exegeted and applied to our lives. I have a big midterm in that passage and 4 other chapters in the Bible tomorrow, so I will be signing off now!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You completely missed my point!

In the OP, you threw out a lot if unverified statements about "they" meaning the people in this forum. You are not the judge. You have no idea how people follow God in this forum. You have no idea if they are obeying God with all their hearts. Yet you judged everyone in you opening post as being "obviously antinomian" because we placed grace before works, and then works coming out of the joy of being was saved, and the Holy Spirit guiding and leading us.

You directly say, "If you teach something different you are not following Jesus."

First, your theology is so poor, and so unsupported here with Scripture, and do lacking in any knowledge of proper hermeneutics, that I will not let you be judge, jury and executioner of my walk with God. The first thing Gid told me the minute I was saved was the major changes in my life he was going to demand of me. But because of my relationship with God, I was eager to obey him, which meant things like quitting drinking, partying and so forth. It also meant positives like daily Bible reading and prayer, serving in church and in the world, stopping swearing and other outward sinful habits.

But it was Christ that gave me a new heart and empowered me to follow him.

"And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh." Ez 36:26

"And you show that you are a letter from Christ delivered by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts 2 Cor. 2:3




There is no one that I know that says you can be saved, and then go your merry way doing whatever you want with a "Get out of Hell Free" card in your back pocket.

That is your antinomian straw man that you have not only set up, but accuse other believers of doing.

And since there is only one "accuser of the brethren" I will leave you with a plea to stop judging the body of Christ!

God is the only judge, and all this accusing just takes you closer to being a messenger of lies. You may be sincere in what you write, but you are sincerely wrong. Your theology is wrong, your judgments are wrong, and you need to start tending to that log in your own eye first!

As for your quote from 1 John 3:2, I know it too well! It is part of a longer passage in first John that we have translated from Greek, exegeted and applied to our lives. I have a big midterm in that passage and 4 other chapters in the Bible tomorrow, so I will be signing off now!

1 good luck with your exam, Still prayin. I hope you know I am so jealous now. I would love to be in your shows and taking that exam. But God has not offered that to me, so I will praise God mightily for offering it to you.

2. As I read your post, I was thinking of what God calls satan,

the father of lies
The deciever
the accuser of the bretheryn
The one who comes as an angel of light

He looks religious, Talks religious, Can post scripture like it was his second language, But twists distorts and mixes truth with the lie, to make the truth no longer truth.

Satan Hates God, this he hates Gods children. And he wants to keep people from joining his family, and keep his family tied down in self condemnation or self glorification.

Any means he can get,, He has had 6000 some years to practice,, We may be modern paople. but we think the same, fall for same mistakes.

All we can do is pray for these people who have bought into these lies, And spew these lies to the people they come in contact with..