Obedience & righteousness - extreme grace version
- Thread starter PeterJens
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Is the discussion grace vs grace + works or extreme grace vs grace ?
Much of what is claimed is actually Gods grace to mankind, which all Christians accept.
You know extreme grace is wrong because it excludes large portions of the new testament as not applicable.
An example of this was a video the grace7x77 put forward from Holland which excluded all of the Lords prayer as part of the old covenant.
Now please look down christian practice since the time of Christ. The Lords prayer has always been a central theme.
By their fruit you shall know them. If you follow the Lord you should know people who discount the eternal words of Christ are preaching against Christ himself.
Much of what is claimed is actually Gods grace to mankind, which all Christians accept.
You know extreme grace is wrong because it excludes large portions of the new testament as not applicable.
An example of this was a video the grace7x77 put forward from Holland which excluded all of the Lords prayer as part of the old covenant.
Now please look down christian practice since the time of Christ. The Lords prayer has always been a central theme.
By their fruit you shall know them. If you follow the Lord you should know people who discount the eternal words of Christ are preaching against Christ himself.
I agree the law is not by faith, but that wasn't my point. The Law was given by grace...The Mosaic covenant was not God dealing with us by our own performance. Galatians 3 explains this very well indeed... apart from the 6 words you quoted, here is another part of the same conversation from Paul:
The Law and the Promise
15 Brothers and sisters, let me take an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or add to a human covenant that has been duly established, so it is in this case. 16 The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. Scripture does not say “and to seeds,” meaning many people, but “and to your seed,” meaning one person, who is Christ. 17 What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise. 18 For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on the promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.
19 Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was given through angels and entrusted to a mediator. 20 A mediator, however, implies more than one party; but God is one.
21 Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law. 22 But Scripture has locked up everything under the control of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe.
Now what was promised has been fulfilled in Christ... The fact that the people began to believe that they where made righteouss by the law does not undermine its original intent...as Jesus refudiates the Pharisee/saducess/scribes many times over this.
We are not under the Mosaic covenant. however, it was given by grace - God's good grace of keeping a people for himself under a schoolmaster until the promise was fulfilled.
E
People must realise, Walking blamelessly and being perfect is not the same.
I can walk blamelessly, by not being openly covetous, by not being a slanderer or gossip. By not being a thief, By serving others, and not being selfish, By not committing murder, or sexual sin,and ot even putting myself in a place this could be even considered by anyone as a possibility
Walk in a way, when people ask about me and my walk, they would say I am a person who loves his god, and serves him, They can not find any faulty within me.
Yet still, be a sinner..
I can walk blamelessly, by not being openly covetous, by not being a slanderer or gossip. By not being a thief, By serving others, and not being selfish, By not committing murder, or sexual sin,and ot even putting myself in a place this could be even considered by anyone as a possibility
Walk in a way, when people ask about me and my walk, they would say I am a person who loves his god, and serves him, They can not find any faulty within me.
Yet still, be a sinner..
F
It is faith that is both an old and new covenant thing...by the grace that was to come for those in the old, and by the grace that has come for those in the new...
"Grace is realized through Jesus Christ" (John 1:17); the "grace of God was given to us in Christ Jesus” (1 Cor. 1:4); "The grace of God has appeared (in Jesus Christ), bringing salvation to all men" (Titus 2:11). We have an identity as Christians, participating in the resurrection-life of Jesus, only by the grace of God (1 Cor. 15:10).
"Grace is realized through Jesus Christ" (John 1:17); the "grace of God was given to us in Christ Jesus” (1 Cor. 1:4); "The grace of God has appeared (in Jesus Christ), bringing salvation to all men" (Titus 2:11). We have an identity as Christians, participating in the resurrection-life of Jesus, only by the grace of God (1 Cor. 15:10).
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We are still sinners.
but we are still asked to work out our salvation (the result)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Do all things without complaining and disputing, [SUP]15 [/SUP]that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world, [SUP]16 [/SUP]holding fast the word of life, so that I may rejoice in the day of Christ that I have not run in vain or labored in vain.
kind of hard for us to go preach th egospel to a friend or co worker when we are shacked up with our girlfriend, Satan and the world will use that to destroy our testimony, and make our words useless (ie call you a hypocrite)
Paul wanted the world to see him as he was, A follower of God who was changed by him, ad made a new creature.
God uses this light to draw people from the darkness to himself.
But paul never claimed to be sinless.
but we are still asked to work out our salvation (the result)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Do all things without complaining and disputing, [SUP]15 [/SUP]that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world, [SUP]16 [/SUP]holding fast the word of life, so that I may rejoice in the day of Christ that I have not run in vain or labored in vain.
kind of hard for us to go preach th egospel to a friend or co worker when we are shacked up with our girlfriend, Satan and the world will use that to destroy our testimony, and make our words useless (ie call you a hypocrite)
Paul wanted the world to see him as he was, A follower of God who was changed by him, ad made a new creature.
God uses this light to draw people from the darkness to himself.
But paul never claimed to be sinless.
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