Obedience & righteousness - extreme grace version

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PeterJens

PeterJens

Banned
#341
Feb 24, 2015
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#341
posthuman said:
why did Christ say "it is finished" when 2,000 years later, here we are, still waiting for His day?
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Jesus and the apostles want you to work out what the "it" is.

The work of salvation was finished on the cross. The demonstration of what Gods love to mankind actually is.
Did you notice it is a battle, a see saw between God and man. Even the best people still made mistakes.

Computer games are things programmed by people. They have defined outcomes. Has it ever occurred to you that our relationship with the Lord is not static or predictable, you have to choose to participate, and it will go many ways.
We love to state God knows everything, everything is under His power. This is true but to have a relationship with a free choosing man or woman, is probably an extremely volatile venture. The optimum outcomes is what you are seeing played out now. If this is not your measure of perfection, you need to recalibrate.
 
P

PeacefulWarrior

Guest
#342
#342
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
How do you stay saved if you stop doing the will of GOD?
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JGIG said:
Um, the will of God is that you be saved.
If you believe in the One He sent, you are saved, and have already done the will of God.
The work of God is loving others, and is the Fruit of the Spirit.
-JGIG
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HeRoseFromTheDead said:
This is the Free Grace concept that a person only has to believe once and they are forever saved. Basically salvation by grace apart from faith. It's gnosticism, pure and simple - once the divine spark within awakes through knowledge (gnosis, special "lens"), it can never die.
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PeacefulWarrior said:
...so in other words if the individual had included, "...and have faith..." -- then it would be a perfectly fine statement?

Why not point this fact out very simply and clearly and benificially, rather than making it look like you're calling the guy a proponent of extreme Free Grace and Gnosticism?! <-- FOR CRYING OUT QUIETLY!
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HeRoseFromTheDead said:
Because I know very well that the person is a rabid follower of Free Grace/Hyper Grace teachings.
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JGIG said:
You're taking shots at imaginary people of your own creation, HRFTD.
-JGIG
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This is enough to make me want to part ways with you, HeRoseFromTheDead -- do you not see what I see?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#343
#343
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
Because I know very well that the person is a rabid follower of Free Grace/Hyper Grace teachings.
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well there you have it, he does not care what a person actually believes, he has become his judge jury and executioner based on a few books he read and not on what the one he condemns said. the person has no say,

so I ask again. Which proves my point.. This stuff should not be aloud. it should be prevented!

I pray PW is beginning to see what we have been dealing with as it relates to HeRose and Peter
 
PeterJens

PeterJens

Banned
#344
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
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#344
Some have said we need to be perfect like God.

All knowing.
All present.
All powerful
Aware of the future, past and present
The source of love and a reference point of all reality
Able to understand all that is before you
Knowledgeable about the nature of existance and all creation

Now this is part of God. This is only part of what I know.
These are things we can never be, or even aspire to because we are human, created, limited, mortal.

So when you use the term "Jesus said we are to be perfect" it is completely ambigious.

You can write off a lot of things that are impossible for us to be because of who we are and who God is.

Now to reduce it to a simple meaning, it is obvious Jesus was talking about loving your enemies.
He mentions God blesses the evil and the good in equal measure. So should we.
What benefit is it if we only bless our friends?

Now those with the agenda to condemn themselves to failure, to make the idea of walking in purity and blamelessly impossible, they love this word perfect, because it brings up in people all the disappointments of meeting their own personal goals, nothing to do with Jesus and righteousness, so the feeling is, yes you are right we are not perfect.

But it is a lie. Jesus, the apostles all say you are my Holy Blameless people, called as a redeemed people to walk in righteousness before the Lord. Now they are not meaning because you have Jesus's righteousness, but you actually know what righteousness actually is and walk in it.

This is not legalism, this is working love through your heart in Christ and being cleansed, clean, pure, holy.
The problem is most of you still think like the world and have not taken on Christs view of what is good, wholesome, pleasing and acceptable to the Lord. He lived with the apostles for 3 years and called them clean, so it is not impossible unless you want to make it so.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#346
#346
PeacefulWarrior said:
Well there you have it folks--HRFTD is judge and jury.

(Her website (blog) included in her signature leads me to believe otherwise, HeRose. C'mon now.)
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you are starting to see what we have seen since HeRose entered CC..

He has done that from the begining,
 
JGIG

JGIG

Senior Member
#347
Aug 2, 2013
2,295
167
63
#347
Nikki84 said:
Brothers and sisters, its quite possible we believe in the same Grace!!!! Maybe the question is how that Grace is administered
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Here's a visual for you about how Grace is 'administered':



Grace you.jpg

\o/

-JGIG
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#348
#348
ember said:
that's been going on so long I almost expect Obama to nominate him for that empty seat

by the way, is it her or he? I once asked and I was told 'he'

but who really knows
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Thank you sis, that I am not the only one who says this,
 
PeterJens

PeterJens

Banned
#349
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
#349
PeacefulWarrior said:
This is enough to make me want to part ways with you, HeRoseFromTheDead -- do you not see what I see?
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PW - There is a problem. When you have the type of interactions here with some people they leave a mark on your conscience and understanding in the Lord. One person left a mark for a good 2 months.

So if HTFTD says he knows some holds a certain position it is because of interactions over months. The emotional map of people and their interactions start to give weight to certain words more than others which on a superficial inspection others miss. I have seen people go ballastic because of certain players and their skills at this.

So I trust HTFTD more than the grace group, because they continually deny obvious connections which their position ignores and want to say things all the time which we have not said, and claim we are lying when we repeat their own beliefs.
To me this is not a christian debate, but a propoganda war with people who have sold out.
 
P

PeacefulWarrior

Guest
#350
#350
PeterJens said:
Some have said we need to be perfect like God.

All knowing.
All present.
All powerful
Aware of the future, past and present
The source of love and a reference point of all reality
Able to understand all that is before you
Knowledgeable about the nature of existance and all creation

Now this is part of God. This is only part of what I know.
These are things we can never be, or even aspire to because we are human, created, limited, mortal.

So when you use the term "Jesus said we are to be perfect" it is completely ambigious.

You can write off a lot of things that are impossible for us to be because of who we are and who God is.

Now to reduce it to a simple meaning, it is obvious Jesus was talking about loving your enemies.
He mentions God blesses the evil and the good in equal measure. So should we.
What benefit is it if we only bless our friends?

Now those with the agenda to condemn themselves to failure, to make the idea of walking in purity and blamelessly impossible, they love this word perfect, because it brings up in people all the disappointments of meeting their own personal goals, nothing to do with Jesus and righteousness, so the feeling is, yes you are right we are not perfect.

But it is a lie. Jesus, the apostles all say you are my Holy Blameless people, called as a redeemed people to walk in righteousness before the Lord. Now they are not meaning because you have Jesus's righteousness, but you actually know what righteousness actually is and walk in it.

This is not legalism, this is working love through your heart in Christ and being cleansed, clean, pure, holy.
The problem is most of you still think like the world and have not taken on Christs view of what is good, wholesome, pleasing and acceptable to the Lord. He lived with the apostles for 3 years and called them clean, so it is not impossible unless you want to make it so.
Click to expand...
This is not preaching the gospel -- this is complaining to anyone who will listen.

I'm done listening.

Goodbye, PeterJ.
 
P

PeacefulWarrior

Guest
#351
#351
PeterJens said:
PW - There is a problem. When you have the type of interactions here with some people they leave a mark on your conscience and understanding in the Lord. One person left a mark for a good 2 months.

So if HTFTD says he knows some holds a certain position it is because of interactions over months. The emotional map of people and their interactions start to give weight to certain words more than others which on a superficial inspection others miss. I have seen people go ballastic because of certain players and their skills at this.

So I trust HTFTD more than the grace group, because they continually deny obvious connections which their position ignores and want to say things all the time which we have not said, and claim we are lying when we repeat their own beliefs.
To me this is not a christian debate, but a propoganda war with people who have sold out.
Click to expand...
In my humble opinion, I think you falsely place people in this "grace group".

Goodbye, PeterJ
 
PeterJens

PeterJens

Banned
#353
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
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#353
PeacefulWarrior said:
I'm assuming "HeRose..." is male and the 'poster in question' is female.
Btw ..... glad to see/know we're on "talking terms" again!
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One thing that made me pause is emotional impact. Truth is always bent to support the reaction you have to how you see life.

Now a lot of faith experiences in church have been emotionally repressed affairs with little freedom and a lot of fear and doing what is expected. What happens when people find life and this bubble is burst. Whatever rushes in becomes the next form of truth.

What I am exploring is what these believers are holding on to and justify themselves with. I am not going to persuade them because they are too defended to let anything in. And anything that might cause them an issue they now call satan.

What do you think it is?
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#354
Jul 31, 2013
37,844
13,558
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#354
PeterJens said:
JHas it ever occurred to you that our relationship with the Lord is not static or predictable
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maybe in a moment of doubt in the perfect faithfulness and perfect knowledge and of the One who chose and predestined me before the foundation of the world and promised that He will not lose any of His sheep, yeah.

and you? have you ever trusted Him at His word, to complete what He began? the One who speaks of things that are not yet, as though they already are? have you ever completely believed, without doubt?

I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times,
what is still to come.
I say, 'My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please.'
(Isaiah 46:10)​
 
PeterJens

PeterJens

Banned
#355
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
#355
PeacefulWarrior said:
In my humble opinion, I think you falsely place people in this "grace group".
Goodbye, PeterJ
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I think you have miss-understood me. I have not placed people anywhere, it is they who have said that is where their loyalties lie. By the way, thanks for the interaction.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#356
#356
PeacefulWarrior said:
When I see posts, like these, PeterJ, it makes me believe you and EG are preaching the same gospel...

...through two, very different, lenses.
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Your joking right?

I know your trying to be th ego between and peacemaker, But this is quite frankly insulting.

I have had peter on ignore since I was asked to yesterday, Sadly I have to come back out to respond to this.

It is a good point. Jesus became the final ultimate atoning sacrifice, once for all. The sacrifice brings all those who believe on it to the Father, clean and forgiven.
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As usual here we agree, However, if this were true, then eternal security and eternal life in Christ would be a completed action given to those who have faith in Christ,

However, Peter does not believe this, Our arguments and discussions have been based in the fact, Peter does not think this is it



What Paul is saying is Jesus was the last sacrifice, which made any further sacrifices irrelevant. What I am talking about is though the cross is for all sins, it is appropriated by faith to the believer, at the present time for sins done now and in the past.
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and here is the problem, and why Peter is so dangerous He seems to be preaching the truth, in fact, if yoou did not look close you may believe he teaches the truth, and it is just language.

But it is not, Peter thinks Jesus only redeemed past and present sin, The rest of the sin (future) you are on your own..


One reason to show this whole process in action in Israel is to get across the immediacy of the sacrifice. There is no buying in to the camp, or just because you are a child of Israel, you are forgiven and blameless.

Look at the repeated words is scripture saying walk in righteousness, do not sin, follow the commandments, be pure, be blameless, yet still people say I cannot stop sinning, but that is not a problem because I am under grace so forgiven.

Religion, giving people what they want to appease their conscience, but not too much to upset them.

Now if I talk about righteousness, cleansing the heart, walking in purity, taking captive every thought for Christ, why is it these spiritual believers hate it so much? Surely if their hearts were there they would be saying, Amen brother.

By their fruits you will know them.
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The rest of this sounds good. It sounds like the words of someone who believes and trusts in Christ, In fact, As PW said, Both Peter and I would say the same things.

The probem is, Peter still has Christ only paying for sins of the present and past. And not all sin. He still preaches self righteousness.

PW. Please. Do not come into the middle of the conversation and think you know what the argument has been about. It scares me that you were si easily lured to believe peter and I taught the same or even close.
 
PeterJens

PeterJens

Banned
#357
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
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#357
PeacefulWarrior said:
This is not preaching the gospel -- this is complaining to anyone who will listen.
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Preaching and teaching are about clarifying what is the truth about God and Christ.

If someone claims their definition of the gospel is one way, and what you represent is wrong and you are unsaved, it is not a complaint to point out the flaws in their position and put a different version of the gospel.

It is up to the listeners to decide what they want to do.

I can conclude only this is too much for you to take in and you are not sure where you stand. But that is fine with me.
May the Lord bless you and keep you.
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#359
Nov 22, 2015
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#359
PeacefulWarrior said:
This is not preaching the gospel -- this is complaining to anyone who will listen.

I'm done listening.

Goodbye, PeterJ.
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Try doing the same thing over 30X times....there is a massive deception going on or simply being dis-honest...I don't know which one..but whatever it is...it's not from our Lord. It just doesn't make any sense...no matter how many times one says " this is what we are saying.."..they say the complete opposite even after 30x times telling the same thing over and over.

This is why many times these people just need to be left alone in the Lord's hands and to the word of His grace. He will be faithful to them and help them to see the glorious gospel of the grace of Christ alone.
 
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