Obedience & righteousness - extreme grace version

[Grace777x70]

There seems to be a predisposed argument here.

If you are afraid of the law, then you do not understand grace.

Are you saying that God's law is all a lie? No man can live perfectly by it, this is why Jesus Christ had to die for us all, but grace does not make God a liar.

When you understand what Jesus Christ teaches, then respond to what I have posted, but please do not make this some kind of contention about God's wisdom in His laws for that is tantamount to saying the Old Testament is a lie, the Psalms and the Prophets teachings, Moses, Abraham.. Please do not teach on what you do not understand.

There is prophesy and wisdom in the law, not to forget the law points to Jesus Christ. Apparently ñyou ae still viewing th e law through the veil, were you not so, you would understand Christ's Example and teaching..


Too many people think grace is license to call God stupid or a liar. The law is exactly what it is taught to be according to Jesus Christ Who gave it to us in the first place.......Try to see it without the veil.

The law is good and holy....and it has fulfilled it's purpose and Jesus has fulfilled the whole law for us, so now we walk in His life by grace through faith. We walk in His love that is in and through us and thus fulfill the whole law by Him alone.

The purpose of the law was :

1) To reveal our sinful state. Rom 3:20

2) To inflame sin Rom 7:8

3) To minister death in us Rom 7:10-11

4) To lead us to Christ Gal 3:24

The law is good! But the purpose of the law was not for righteousness or salvation at all, it was to manifest sin in our lives, so that the purpose of grace which is in Jesus is to manifest salvation. Grace does not set aside the law, but completely satisfied it.

Col 2:13-15 is where in says that Christ "disarmed" satan having cancelled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us and He nailed it to the cross. Satan uses the law against us. Satan comes and says to you - you broke the law - you are condemned now according to the law.

BUT our Lord took that punishment for breaking that law for us. When Christ takes away the condemnation of the law which satan uses against when he accuses us - he is being "disarmed". If disarmed means anything - it means he did have a weapon but now he doesn't because of our Lord. How great is our salvation in Him!

 

[Grace777x70]

That's what "it" told him.

Have we ever found out if the Holy Spirit and the Father and the Lord Jesus are distinct beings yet? ..and yet are still one as God together?

 

[gb9]

The law is good and holy....and it has fulfilled it's purpose and Jesus has fulfilled the whole law for us, so now we walk in His life by grace through faith. We walk in His love that is in and through us and thus fulfill the whole law by Him alone.

The purpose of the law was :

1) To reveal our sinful state. Rom 3:20

2) To inflame sin Rom 7:8

3) To minister death in us Rom 7:10-11

4) To lead us to Christ Gal 3:24

The law is good! But the purpose of the law was not for righteousness or salvation at all, it was to manifest sin in our lives, so that the purpose of grace which is in Jesus is to manifest salvation. Grace does not set aside the law, but completely satisfied it.

Col 2:13-15 is where in says that Christ "disarmed" satan having cancelled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us and He nailed it to the cross. Satan uses the law against us. Satan comes and says to you - you broke the law - you are condemned now according to the law.

BUT our Lord took that punishment for breaking that law for us. When Christ takes away the condemnation of the law which satan uses against when he accuses us - he is being "disarmed". If disarmed means anything - it means he did have a weapon but now he doesn't because of our Lord. How great is our salvation in Him!

this is true!! but, though I like and respect him, he is a nice man, Jamie j is a Hebrew roots guy who thinks you have to keep the law and believe in Christ to be saved.

 

[FreeNChrist]

I left out those verses to compact the post. They didn't seem necessary for my response.

"Lose their spiritual substance" means that the gnostics believed once their spirit being was awakened it would never perish, no matter what manner of conduct they engaged in. Essentially identical to the "Grace Believer" and OSAS belief that once a person is born in the spirit, it can never be lost no matter what sort of behavior they engage in. Shows you how much gnostic thought has infiltrated the church.

In your world anyone who knows their salvation is eternally secure in Christ is a Gnostic....because after all that's what the Gnostics believed. A classic non sequitur if ever there was one.

 

[JaumeJ]

Let one thing be perfectly clear with any would-be teachers of a new law disguised as living in grace.

The law is perfect, the law is good, the law is established by faith, all if understood and acted upon lawfully.

I cannot judge any of these self-appointed judges of the obedient, nor may I witness against another man's servant, however we have a Book full of prophets of the Father who do witness and attest to the law as bing good.

Last of all, yet before all others, Jesus Christ teaches how to obey the law lawfully, His first teaching was to the hyipocrites who understood the law as so many do today, through the veil of Moses. His lesson is simple, it is to be obeyed with the guidance of faith, justice and mercy. Mercy alone tells us much on all of the law.

Jesus Christ lived obeying the law by HIs Example, thus also teaching us how, yet you who believe youselves as living in grace have made yourselves into some perverse form of law-givers in overlooking how Jesus, by example, purposely ignored laws without mercy..........not all of the law. You say you know the law, yet you know nothing, for if yo did you would know how to use it lawfully.

No one walking today will witness against you, for you witness against yourselves claiming to live in grace yet giveng your law to those who wish to live and be seen as living as did Jesus Christ..

YOu must learn what He has taught us all............

 

[roaringkitten]

You mock and slander us believers:

'Grace' believers. You figure out who they are. Sorry I don't play this game anymore of 'grace' believers saying this or that, and then later claiming that they didn't say this or that. Constant redefinitions and shape-shifting is their modus operandi. We know what they believe, and it just gets better every day. They can't hide anymore.

That's basically correct, but I don't believe that we must do works. It's all about being led by the spirit and doing what it says. If it says to do something and we don't, well that would/could be a problem. But we most definitely MUST strive to refrain from doing sin.

Who is the real shapeshifter?

You must do the righteous work of abstaining from sin and doing the will of GOD in order to be saved.

You can't explain that away w/o shapeshifting against the Word!

"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost" Titus 3:5

 

[FreeNChrist]

I was just pointing out what the word dunamis means (ability), and how it being translated as power appeals to those who have internalized the belief in total inability. If you don't believe you are able to do something, then if you are going to imagine that you are doing it, you have to believe something more powerful than your will is doing it through you.

"I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing." John 15:5

 

[Grace777x70]

Let one thing be perfectly clear with any would-be teachers of a new law disguised as living in grace.

The law is perfect, the law is good, the law is established by faith, all if understood and acted upon lawfully.

I cannot judge any of these self-appointed judges of the obedient, nor may I witness against another man's servant, however we have a Book full of prophets of the Father who do witness and attest to the law as bing good.

Last of all, yet before all others, Jesus Christ teaches how to obey the law lawfully, His first teaching was to the hyipocrites who understood the law as so many do today, through the veil of Moses. His lesson is simple, it is to be obeyed with the guidance of faith, justice and mercy. Mercy alone tells us much on all of the law.

Jesus Christ lived obeying the law by HIs Example, thus also teaching us how, yet you who believe youselves as living in grace have made yourselves into some perverse form of law-givers in overlooking how Jesus, by example, purposely ignored laws without mercy..........not all of the law. You say you know the law, yet you know nothing, for if yo did you would know how to use it lawfully.

No one walking today will witness against you, for you witness against yourselves claiming to live in grace yet giveng your law to those who wish to live and be seen as living as did Jesus Christ..

YOu must learn what He has taught us all............

1 Timothy 1:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

Romans 3:31 (KJV)
[SUP]31 [/SUP] Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Romans 3:28 (NASB)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

Galatians 3:12 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Our Father considers obedience superior to sacrifice. He considers disobedience as witchcraft.

Yes, we who are in Christ, live in grace, however grace is never to be taken as license to disobey the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

If anyone needs to know everything about obedience, learn the teaching of the Gospel by and from Jesus Christ; there is no other..... Always remember and apply faith, justice and mercy, and all will be well with you.

Man sinned just fine under the Law. Nobody has ever needed a license to sin.

 

[Grace777x70]

this is true!! but, though I like and respect him, he is a nice man, Jamie j is a Hebrew roots guy who thinks you have to keep the law and believe in Christ to be saved.

Ahh. .ok ..thanks ..now I understand where he is coming from ..here is a great site that discusses the Hebrew Roots beliefs.

https://joyfullygrowingingrace.wordpress.com/?s=Hebrew+roots

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Ok. Then maybe I misunderstood you.

What is your take on this verse again?

James 2:14~~New American Standard Bible
What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?

How many works would be classified as "no works"

 

[FreeNChrist]

If GOD tells us to not sin, what could possibly be the problem if of our own free will and effort we stop sinning?

If man had the ability to not sin by his own free will, there would have been no need for Jesus to come, suffer, and die for us. The problem is that by your belief in the inherent ability of man to make himself acceptable to a perfect and holy God, you make a complete mockery of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ and of the gospel that saves.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Oh brother....the merry-go-round continues....


View attachment 145938

I am wondering why anyone even responds to his stuff anymore..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You sound like you need to read the bible more.

And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. Matthew 7:26

For the terrible one is brought to nought, and the scorner is consumed, and all that watch for iniquity are cut off: That make a man an offender for a word, and lay a snare for him that reproveth in the gate, and turn aside the just for a thing of nought. Isaiah 29:20-21​

Now here is HeRose claiming to be equal with God. to excuse his own sin.

SMH

 

[FreeNChrist]

Salvation apart from obedience is a myth. It's just inconceivable that Christians actually think salvation can be separated from obedience.

​“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Matthew 7:21​

No. Obedience apart from Salvation is the myth.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

You mock and slander us believers:
Who is the real shapeshifter?
You can't explain that away w/o shapeshifting against the Word!

"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost" Titus 3:5

This describes and is for you.

For the terrible one is brought to nought, and the scorner is consumed, and all that watch for iniquity are cut off: That make a man an offender for a word, and lay a snare for him that reproves in the gate, and turn aside the just for a thing of nought. Isaiah 29:20-21​

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I left out those verses to compact the post. They didn't seem necessary for my response.

"Lose their spiritual substance" means that the gnostics believed once their spirit being was awakened it would never perish, no matter what manner of conduct they engaged in. Essentially identical to the "Grace Believer" and OSAS belief that once a person is born in the spirit, it can never be lost no matter what sort of behavior they engage in. Shows you how much gnostic thought has infiltrated the church.

Again, Please can we do something about this.

He does not want to actually listen to what people believe, he wants to tell us what we believe.

 

[Grace777x70]

I am wondering why anyone even responds to his stuff anymore..

It does have a good thing about it..at least the true gospel of the grace of Christ is getting out to people and they can see the difference in what people are actually saying. In this we should rejoice!

 

[Grace777x70]

Again, Please can we do something about this.

He does not want to actually listen to what people believe, he wants to tell us what we believe.

I wouldn't worry about it..the lies and slander have been exposed over and over again...the Holy Spirit in the viewers will show them the truth that is in our Lord's finished sacrifice for us.....

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes dunamis has shades of meaning. I based my comment primarily on TDNT.

Theological Dictionary of the New Testament

Words of this stem all have the basic sense of ability or capability. dýnamai means a. “to be able” in a general sense, b. “to be able” with reference to the attitude that makes one able, hence sometimes “to will,” and c. (of things) “to be equivalent to,” “to count as,” “to signify.” dynatós means “one who has ability or power,” “one who is powerful”; the neuter adjective signifies “what is possible or practicable.” dynatéō means “to have great ability.” adýnatos means “one who has no ability or strength”; the noun tó adýnaton signifies “impossibility” and adýnatón esti “to be impossible.” adynatéō means “not to be able.” dýnamis, the most important word in the group, means “ability,” then “possibility,” then “power” both physical and intellectual or spiritual. dýnastēs has the sense of “one who can do something” and was early used for “ruler” (including God as ruler). dynamóō and endynamóō both mean “to give power,” “to make strong,” “to strengthen.”​

IMO GOD is more interested in our having ability, than power. That was one of the most important revelations ever.

And [GOD] said [to Elijah], Thou shalt go forth to-morrow, and shalt stand before the Lord in the mount; behold, the Lord will pass by. And, behold, a great [and] strong wind rending the mountains, and crushing the rocks before the Lord; [but] the Lord [was] not in the wind; and after the wind an earthquake; [but] the Lord [was] not in the earthquake: and after the earthquake a fire; [but] the Lord [was] not in the fire: and after the fire the voice of a gentle breeze; there was the Lord. ​ 1 Kings 19:11-12​

so all those verses she posted which proved her point meant nothing?

And as usual, you did not even respond to them.

WHy are you even here if you have no desire to discuss the word? Can you tell us this?