Obedience & righteousness - extreme grace version
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why does he say your afraid?
You will not say yes or no (you did not say yes or no in your post.) If we take what you said, then we would believe you said no, But thse of us you have on ignore, know you do not believe this, That why you should never ignore people.. Thats why budman will keep confronting you until you say yes or no. Because he has us who know what you have said in the past.
You will not say yes or no (you did not say yes or no in your post.) If we take what you said, then we would believe you said no, But thse of us you have on ignore, know you do not believe this, That why you should never ignore people.. Thats why budman will keep confronting you until you say yes or no. Because he has us who know what you have said in the past.
E
You know what sad.
A person who has real unending faith in their belief system would answer you proudly and with no sign of wavering, because they had true faith in that system.
It is telling that he lacks such faiht in his system, he can not even say yes or no. even if his answer is no.
This would make me think internally, WHy can't I answer him like he asks, WHy is my faith so little in my own belief.
A person who has real unending faith in their belief system would answer you proudly and with no sign of wavering, because they had true faith in that system.
It is telling that he lacks such faiht in his system, he can not even say yes or no. even if his answer is no.
This would make me think internally, WHy can't I answer him like he asks, WHy is my faith so little in my own belief.
Context...context..James talking to Jewish people that know the law...
James 2:8-10 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF," you are doing well.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
Romans 10:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] For Moses writes that the man who practices the righteousness which is based on law shall live by that righteousness.
James 2:8-10 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF," you are doing well.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
Romans 10:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] For Moses writes that the man who practices the righteousness which is based on law shall live by that righteousness.
You and those who approve of your line of "discussion" truly have no knowledge of the Word. You want my interpreetation of this by the Holy Spirit, then here it is.............
Anyone who defies God by disobeying could easily be put into the outer darkness, while those, myself included, who win by weakness do not have the guilt of our transgression held against us.
You cannot have a yes or no response to such a serious question for there are many spiritual factors delineated in the Word dthat one must understan before pronouncing on this subject.
Now, if you understand my reply, bravo, but you should have known this from study of the Word. You and those who approve you.
Excuse my typos, I see the red, but not the words right now
Be careful of whom you label as cowards, especially those who have Christ in their hearts. I have been tod by men who are acclaimed as brave that I do things that frighten them, and they are nothing, and not frightening. You are safe here online calling folks what yo will, so I will leave you go God, with Christ's Blood betwixt the two of us either covering or protecting both, so watch what you intend.
Anyone who defies God by disobeying could easily be put into the outer darkness, while those, myself included, who win by weakness do not have the guilt of our transgression held against us.
You cannot have a yes or no response to such a serious question for there are many spiritual factors delineated in the Word dthat one must understan before pronouncing on this subject.
Now, if you understand my reply, bravo, but you should have known this from study of the Word. You and those who approve you.
Excuse my typos, I see the red, but not the words right now
Be careful of whom you label as cowards, especially those who have Christ in their hearts. I have been tod by men who are acclaimed as brave that I do things that frighten them, and they are nothing, and not frightening. You are safe here online calling folks what yo will, so I will leave you go God, with Christ's Blood betwixt the two of us either covering or protecting both, so watch what you intend.
Convict
G1651 ἐλέγχω elegcho (el-eng'-kho) v.
1. to confute, admonish
This is the same word that is used in John 16:8; the verse that "Grace believers" use to try to make it look like the holy spirit doesn't convict believers of sin.
Here is the answer to HeRose's "convict" usage...
The word " convict/reprove/convince/expose" in question has many meanings attached to it as well.
It is only used 1 time in KJV as "convict"....it is used more often with the word "to reprove/rebuke/convince"...the word needs to be looked at in the "context" that it is used...
It is a revealing of things.....to the world the Holy Spirit reveals/convinces/expose their sin of unbelief in Jesus..
.to the believer He reveals/convinces/expose that they are the righteousness of Christ because He went to the Father to stand as an Advocate.
John 16:8-10 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] "And He, when He comes, will convict the world ( unbelievers ) concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;
[SUP]9 [/SUP] concerning sin, because they ( unbelievers ) do not believe in Me;
[SUP]10 [/SUP] and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father and you ( believers ) no longer see Me;
1 John 2:1-2 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;
[SUP]2 [/SUP] and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
Here are a few examples of the same exact word used in scripture...as one can clearly see..this word has many uses depending on the context
1 Corinthians 14:24 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:
Titus 1:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.
Matthew 18:15 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
John 8:46 (KJV)
[SUP]46 [/SUP] Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
English Words used in KJV: reprove 6
rebuke 5
convince 4
tell (one's) fault 1
convict 1
[Total Count: 17]
Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary.
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E
How many gospels are there? According to what you just said, there is more than one gospel
Gal 1 -
[SUP]6 [/SUP]I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, [SUP]7 [/SUP]which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. [SUP]8 [/SUP]But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. [SUP]9 [/SUP]As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.
Yes or no.. There is no other answer, if your answer is not no, then it is yes, period.
This is a bot more indepth than yours.
Reprove/Rebuke
G1651 ἐλέγχω elegcho (el-eng'-kho) v.
1. to confute, admonish
Theological Dictionary of the New Testament
ἐλέγχω (elénchō)
2. In the NT the use is restricted. With the accusative of person it means “to show people their sins and summon them to repentance,” either privately (Mt. 18:15) or congregationally (1 Tim. 5:20). The Holy Spirit does this (Jn. 16:8), as also Christ does both now (Rev. 3:19) and at the parousia (Jude 15). No one can do it to Jesus himself (Jn. 8:46). Sinners experience this exposure when faced by the prophetic call (Lk. 3:19), divine instruction (Heb. 12:5), or the law (Jms. 2:9). perí is used to denote the fault (Lk. 3:19), with hóti for elaboration (Jn. 16:9ff.). Correction as well as exposure or conviction is implied; the corresponding action is élenxis (2 Pet. 2:16) or elegmós (2 Tim. 3:16).
Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament: Based on Semantic Domains
33.417 ἐλέγχω; ἔλεγξις, εως f; ἐλεγμός, οῦ m: to state that someone has done wrong, with the implication that there is adequate proof of such wrongdoing—‘to rebuke, to reproach, rebuke, reproach.’
ἐλέγχω: ὁ δὲ Ηρῴδης ὁ τετραάρχης, ἐλεγχόμενος υ’π̓ αυ’τοῦ περὶ Ηρῳδιάδος ‘Herod the tetrarch was rebuked by him because of Herodias’ Lk 3:19; μᾶλλον δὲ καὶ ἐλέγχετε ‘but rather rebuke them’ Eph 5:11.
ἔλεγξις: ὃς μισθὸν ἀδικίας ἠγάπησεν ἔλεγξιν δὲ ἔσχεν ἰδίας παρανομίας ‘who loved the money he would get for doing wrong and was reproached for his transgression’ 2 Pe 2:15–16.
ἐλεγμός: πᾶσα γραφὴ θεόπνευστος καὶ ὠφέλιμος πρὸς διδασκαλίαν, πρὸς ἐλεγμόν ‘all Scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for rebuking’ 2 Tm 3:16.
A Concise Greek-English Dictionary of the New Testament
ἐλέγχω (aor. pass. ἠλέγχθην ) show (someone his) fault or error, convince (someone) of (his) fault or error; show (something) up for what it is; prove guilty, condemn; rebuke, reprove
Synonyms of the New Testament, 9th ed.
... ἐλέγχειν is a much more pregnant word; it is so to rebuke another, with such effectual wielding of the victorious arms of the truth, as to bring him, if not always to a confession, yet at least to a conviction, of his sin (Job 5:17; Prov. 19:25), just as in juristic Greek, ἐλέγχειν is not merely to reply to, but to refute, an opponent.
... ἔλεγχος implies not merely the charge, but the truth of the charge, and further the manifestation of the truth of the charge; nay more than all this, very often also the acknowledgment, if not outward, yet inward, of its truth on the part of the accused; it being the glorious prerogative of the truth in its highest operation not merely to assert itself, and to silence the adversary, but to silence him by convincing him of his error.
Vine’s Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words
CONVICT (including the KJV, “convince”)
1. elencho (ἐλέγχω, 1651) signifies (a) “to convict, confute, refute,” usually with the suggestion of putting the convicted person to shame; see Matt. 18:15, where more than telling the offender his fault is in view; it is used of “convicting” of sin, John 8:46; 16:8; gainsayers in regard to the faith, Titus 1:9; transgressors of the Law, Jas. 2:9; some texts have the verb in John 8:9; (b) “to reprove,” 1 Cor. 14:24, RV (for KJV, “convince”), for the unbeliever is there viewed as being reproved for, or “convicted” of, his sinful state; so in Luke 3:19; it is used of reproving works, John 3:20; Eph. 5:11, 13; 1 Tim. 5:20; 2 Tim. 4:2; Titus 1:13; 2:15; all these speak of reproof by word of mouth. In Heb. 12:5 and Rev. 3:19, the word is used of reproving by action. See FAULT, REBUKE, REPROVE.
It's rather amazing how you can answer a question, without actually answering the question.
To say "could easily" instead of "will be" is telling.
But, I'll make it even easier for you.
I think you believe that a Christian will lose their salvation if they live in disobedience.
Now....
a) You are correct, Budman.
or:
b) You are wrong, Budman.
Just type the letter "a" or "b" and click "post quick reply".
Done and done.
To say "could easily" instead of "will be" is telling.
But, I'll make it even easier for you.
I think you believe that a Christian will lose their salvation if they live in disobedience.
Now....
a) You are correct, Budman.
or:
b) You are wrong, Budman.
Just type the letter "a" or "b" and click "post quick reply".
Done and done.
The fact that Jesus spoke to the Jews is due to His having come to save His own people FIRST, then He sent His disciples to preach the same message to the Gentiles.
Context does not separate His gospel from the Jews or the Gentiles it united them in the faith of Abraham.
Many here get uncomfortable, some even get a bit riled up, when they hear the word, Jew, for many equate the Children of Israel with Jews, and they are right, at least 1/12th right.
The Gospel for the Children of Israel is for them all, even those joined to them, so do not say one thing is true for Israel and another for Gentiles or yo uare saying you are still Gentile, Pagan.
Again, the majority here think acknowledging the Israel of God as being the Children of Israel with the Gentiles converted graffed in is wrong, and not of God, but I am afraid you are not hearing the Godd Shepherd Who has unified that other flock, Gentiles, with His original flock, Israel. Or do you believe the words in Ephesians teaching us that we are become God's nation with Israel are in error? If this is the case, you should write your own Bible, but it will not be in the Hoy Spirit if you teach agains these teachings.
You grace only to the nth power folsk will not understand this at all.
Context does not separate His gospel from the Jews or the Gentiles it united them in the faith of Abraham.
Many here get uncomfortable, some even get a bit riled up, when they hear the word, Jew, for many equate the Children of Israel with Jews, and they are right, at least 1/12th right.
The Gospel for the Children of Israel is for them all, even those joined to them, so do not say one thing is true for Israel and another for Gentiles or yo uare saying you are still Gentile, Pagan.
Again, the majority here think acknowledging the Israel of God as being the Children of Israel with the Gentiles converted graffed in is wrong, and not of God, but I am afraid you are not hearing the Godd Shepherd Who has unified that other flock, Gentiles, with His original flock, Israel. Or do you believe the words in Ephesians teaching us that we are become God's nation with Israel are in error? If this is the case, you should write your own Bible, but it will not be in the Hoy Spirit if you teach agains these teachings.
You grace only to the nth power folsk will not understand this at all.
Never mind. I have my answer. It is completely clear to anyone reading our discourse.
Your refusal to state simply what you believe shows that you would much rather conceal it. You are being purposely deceptive.
Example: If you were to ask me if I believe a Christian could lose their salvation based on their obedience, I would answer:
No.
See? Very clear and concise.
Not so with you.
But again, don't worry. I now know you believe.
So yes, you are a legalist.
T
2 Peter 1:5-15King James Version (KJV)
5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
12 Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth.
13 Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting you in remembrance;
14 Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me.
15 Moreover I will endeavour that ye may be able after my decease to have these things always in remembrance.
5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
12 Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth.
13 Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting you in remembrance;
14 Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me.
15 Moreover I will endeavour that ye may be able after my decease to have these things always in remembrance.
G
No. We understand it quite well. That is why you won't answer a simple kindergarten question.
I have 2 salvation's in my mind.
1. Believing on Christ and He saved me.
2. Finding a Grace teacher and saving me from the EXACT garbage you teach.
And from most of the grace believers on this site,they have similar stories. We understand what you are saying all to well.
It is why we know the answer is a resounding YES, to the question you won't answer.
You just try to hide your YES, in many words and ambiguity. The same way people say, " It is all grace! BUT,AND,IF,IT SEEMS,IF YOU....."
I have 2 salvation's in my mind.
1. Believing on Christ and He saved me.
2. Finding a Grace teacher and saving me from the EXACT garbage you teach.
And from most of the grace believers on this site,they have similar stories. We understand what you are saying all to well.
It is why we know the answer is a resounding YES, to the question you won't answer.
You just try to hide your YES, in many words and ambiguity. The same way people say, " It is all grace! BUT,AND,IF,IT SEEMS,IF YOU....."
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