Question on post trib rapture.

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PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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151
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A MAJOR mistake that many make is this notion that the Great Tribulation is the Wrath of God and that it is Global. This mistake is made by pre-tribbers and most post-tribbers alike. I understand that most of this confusion comes from the below passage in Rev 13. The term "the earth" is assumed to mean the whole planet, but does it?

[SUP]12 [/SUP]And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

[SUP]13 [/SUP]And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

[SUP]14 [/SUP]And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

[SUP]15 [/SUP]And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

The above was written in the first century AD some time between 62 and 96 AD. The "Beast" in power at the time was of course ROME. Rome was the most terrible of all the beasts. Rome lasted the longest and had control over the largest land mass in history. Did Rome ever occupy North or South America? How about Australia or China? Did Rome occupy Mid or South Africa, Antarctica, the North Pole or Russia? Did Rome occupy and conquer India?

Here is a map of the Roman Empire at its height and as known to John:

Rome.jpg

Now let's see how Daniel describes Rome in Dan 7:

[SUP]23 [/SUP]Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

Did Rome devour the entire planet? Look at the map above. Did Daniel lie or was Daniel talking about the known earth to him? If the latter, then why do we assign the entire globe to John when we don't to Daniel? It would be over 1,300 more years from John until Columbus set sail.

The Bible was completed nearly 2,000 years ago and 1,300 years before Columbus set sail and before the "new world" as it was called, was discovered. Therefore let's not assign to John knowledge of the whole planet that he did not have since we can't assign the same knowledge to Daniel. Therefore "the earth" as known to John is the same "earth" as known to Daniel.

I can't stress enough the importance of understanding this. Once this is understood, then it becomes clear that the events of Revelation are happening on a regional level and not a global level. We can then see as we study the regional location of the Beast that it has become Muslim and is killing or chasing Christianity away from its sphere of influence. When we get that, then we can understand that when the Wrath is poured out on the Kingdom of the Beast that it too is poured out regionally on a region where the Church has been erased. Therefore there is no need for a Pre-Trib Rapture to protect the Church from the Wrath of God because the Church is no longer there.
 
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GaryA

Guest
rev 20 is not the first resurrection.
No? Really?

Revelation 20:

[SUP]5[/SUP] But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.
This is the first resurrection. [SUP]6[/SUP] Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


"Revelation 20 seems to think so..." ;)

:)
 
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popeye

Guest
No? Really?

Revelation 20:

[SUP]5[/SUP] But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.
This is the first resurrection. [SUP]6[/SUP] Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


"Revelation 20 seems to think so..." ;)

:)
You guys CONTINUALLY paint yourselves into a corner.

You want so badly that verse to work for your deal.

" blessed are they that take part in the first resurrection which the second death has no power over."

Now,under your strict interpretation,only the AC dodging martyrs escape the second death.

Now we have a problem

Nobody else,including the patriarchs THAT WERE RAISED FROM THE DEAD ALONG SIDE JESUS,escape the second death.

HUGE UHH OHH MOMENT FOR YOUR THEORY.

Beyond rediculous that the first resurrection is only those martyrs mentioned in rev 20
 
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popeye

Guest
Thank you Jesus for your word,

That we need not be disenfranchised of truth.

Let us continually watch and wait eagerly for your soon gathering of your bride
 
Jan 9, 2016
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Thank you Jesus for your word,

That we need not be disenfranchised of truth.

Let us continually watch and wait eagerly for your soon gathering of your bride
something we all can agree with
 
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GaryA

Guest
What part of - "This is the first resurrection." - do you not understand?

:)
 
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popeye

Guest
What part of - "This is the first resurrection." - do you not understand?

:)
Jesus was the firstfruits. (resurrection)

The patriarchs were also part of the first resurrection.

You are leaving this out,making those beheaded by the AC "exclusively first resurrection"


........not to mention the fact that the rapture contains millions of dead raised (uh,hello,resurrected)that were never martyred.

I already showed you ,what,5 times where you are wrong?
 
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popeye

Guest
OK,now remember "the dead in christ shall rise FIRST".....then those alive. That is the rapture.

Now watch what we have here in rev 14 DURING THE GT;
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.


Now how are we going to have this harvest,by Jesus,of LIVE souls during the GT,when we are being led to believe the dead in Christ (rapture) is supposedly at the end of the GT?

Can we all say together "IMPOSSIBLE"?
 
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GaryA

Guest
Jesus was the firstfruits. (resurrection)
That is correct. And, to-date, Jesus is the only person who has been 'resurrected'. And, no one else will be 'resurrected' until He returns -- at which time the first [ "general" ] resurrection will occur - just like Revelation 20 says it will.


The patriarchs were also part of the first resurrection.
They were not 'resurrected'. They were only raised from the dead. They were not "changed" and made incorruptible. ( 1 Corinthians 15 ) They later died again...


You are leaving this out,making those beheaded by the AC "exclusively first resurrection"
I am not leaving anything out. And, you assume a lot about what you think I believe.


Instead of inventing your own terminology and trying to wrap the scriptures around it -- why not accept what the Bible says - as it says it?

When the Bible says "This is the first resurrection." -- I believe it - on its terms and definitions.

When the Bible speaks of 'resurrection', it is talking about someone going through "the change" - the spiritually-based-but-physically-manifested change - "mortality putting on immortality" ( 1 Corinthians 15 ) -- not merely being raised from the dead. Many people have been raised from the dead before - only one has been 'resurrected' - the Lord Jesus Christ...

:)
 
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GaryA

Guest
OK,now remember "the dead in christ shall rise FIRST".....then those alive. That is the rapture.

.
.
.

Now how are we going to have this harvest,by Jesus,of LIVE souls during the GT,when we are being led to believe the dead in Christ (rapture) is supposedly at the end of the GT?
Because it is not during the Great Tribulation...

No one is "harvested" during the Great Tribulation; only at a time that is after it...

:)
 
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GaryA

Guest
When the Bible speaks of 'resurrection', it is talking about someone going through "the change" - the spiritually-based-but-physically-manifested change - "mortality putting on immortality" ( 1 Corinthians 15 ) -- not merely being raised from the dead. Many people have been raised from the dead before - only one has been 'resurrected' - the Lord Jesus Christ...
"And, yes - I know that there is a resurrection of the just and a resurrection of the unjust..."

:)
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
63
[SUP]5 [/SUP]But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished.

Who are "the rest of the dead" who did not live again until 1,000 were finished?
 
Jan 26, 2016
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The Church is neither taken or left behind. The "Church" in the Middle East is all but decimated. There is no church there to pre-trib "rapture." The Church in the rest of the world, not affected by the Beast, is fine. The Church is outside the area of the Great Tribulation and the Wrath of God that follows.

Incidentally, the ones taken are the Tares, then the Wheat is gathered into the barn, see Mat 13. Jesus was the one telling the parable in Mat 13 and so when He brings it up again in Mat 24, the topic is the same. The Tares are "bundled" and "taken to be burned." This has nothing to do with any rapture.

Christ gathers His to Himself when He returns. He doesn't fly anyone off to heaven. After all, He is coming here, we are not going to where He came from, rather we are staying with Him here for His reign.
I agree with this and would like to add that Id rather be left behind since all through the bible the evil ones are taken
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
63
I agree with this and would like to add that Id rather be left behind since all through the bible the evil ones are taken
ABSOLUTELY!!! Look where they are taken. Everyone quotes the Matthew and Mark version but Luke tells us where they are taken.

Luke 17: [SUP]34 [/SUP]I tell you, in that night there will be two men in one bed: the one will be taken and the other will be left. [SUP]35 [/SUP]Two women will be grinding together: the one will be taken and the other left. [SUP]36 [/SUP]Two men will be in the field: the one will be taken and the other left.”[SUP] 37 [/SUP]And they answered and said to Him, “Where, Lord?” So He said to them, Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together.”

They are taken to the body where the eagles will be gathered.

[SUP]20 [/SUP]Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. [SUP]21 [/SUP]And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.

They are taken to a very bad place.

[SUP]16 [/SUP]And they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon

All these pre-tribbers who think they want to be taken citing the passage from the Olivet better be careful what they wish for.
 
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Jan 9, 2016
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ABSOLUTELY!!! Look where they are taken. Everyone quotes the Matthew and Mark version but Luke tells us where they are taken.

Luke 17: [SUP]34 [/SUP]I tell you, in that night there will be two men in one bed: the one will be taken and the other will be left. [SUP]35 [/SUP]Two women will be grinding together: the one will be taken and the other left. [SUP]36 [/SUP]Two men will be in the field: the one will be taken and the other left.”[SUP] 37 [/SUP]And they answered and said to Him, “Where, Lord?” So He said to them, Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together.”

They are taken to the body where the eagles will be gathered.

[SUP]20 [/SUP]Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. [SUP]21 [/SUP]And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.

They are taken to a very bad place.

[SUP]16 [/SUP]And they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon

All these pre-tribbers who think they want to be taken citing the passage from the Olivet better be careful what they wish for.
you took the scriptures out of context there brother. Here I will show you.

Revelation 7:9"After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, 10 and crying out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” 11 All the angels stood around the throne and the elders and the four living creatures, and fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12 saying:"

Take note of what they are wearing here.

Revelation 3:4You[b] have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy.5 He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

So we have those who are raptured in heaven wearing the white robes. And here in revelation 19 we see the ones in white again on horses coming with Jesus as his armies.


Revelation 19:14
14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean,[f] followed Him on white horses

Maybe I misread the part you mentioned in Luke about the Eagles. But that is not the people who are raptured and they are not eating those raptured but are eating the followers of satan and eating their flesh.

Revelation 19:
17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, “Come and gather together for the supper of the great God,[h] 18 that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, free[i] and slave, both small and great.”
 
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truthman8

Guest
I don't have to have scripture references for events that are only now transpiring. First, the Second Coming was prophesied for 2000 years later. That is given in many places in Scripture (the 3rd day prophecies, the 2000 cubits, Peter's "a days is a 1000 years", the 2 male lambs and 1 female lamb, etc). The restoration of Israel was in 1944-48. The German army went into retreat in 1944 at D-Day (June 6) and at the battle of the Bulge, thus guaranteeing the restoration of the nation Israel. Officially the war ended in 1945, and the Jews began flowing back into Palestine to form the nation. In 1947 the provisional government was formed, and in '48 they fought the battle that established them. Jerusalem was restored to Israel in 1967 (June 5th - 10th ?) The EU was formed in 1998 (666 x 3). Israel got an Association Trade Agreement with the EU in 1995 and 2010. Exactly one year later the Palestinians got theirs, making it also an agreement with Israel, since the Bible says in Hebrew that the Beast makes an agreement to "make strong with many", not the people of Israel directly as a ruler. We have been in the latter days since 1944. Israel now exists again, and the Jews already want to build a temple and start their sacrifices. Joel 9:3 speaks of the restoration of Israel and Jerusalem as close promity in time to the battle of Armageddon. Since Armageddon requires Christ be here, the Second Coming must be close now.

Jesus did not say that the abominations of desolation starts at the middle of the 7 years. Daniel says it only lasts 45 days, and there are 1290 days from the middle of the 7 years when the sacrifice is anulled until the A of D starts. The temple must be built first, and the Jews must consider the Antichrist to be the messiah, possibly because he helps build the temple. Since the last 7 years starts with the EU=Palestinian Association Trade Agreement, the "causing" of the sacrifice and oblation to cease has already taken place. It was on June 12th of 2014, when Hamas and the Palestinians escalated the violence against Israel, causing Israel to break their trade agreement stipulation that they would observe human rights, referring only to the Palestinians. When the temple is completed, this will be used against them to forcefully stop them and initiate the power of the Antichrist over Israel. When this happens, the A of D is put into action, and the people of Israel have to run for it. I thought 2016 was the 2nd Coming, but it was the time of the 3rd Temple. The return of Christ is 2 years behind it.

As to the sun turning dark and the moon to blood, this may also be due to the asteroid that hits shortly before Christ comes down. It seems to hit the Mediterranean. Now why does Christ return early to stop God's wrath, if Jesus is God? It seems he is working against the Lord's will, who is actively trying to stamp out everyone. But this was never God's plan. Also, nuclear holocaust is in play, and world war is certainly starting, so why does God need to destroy a lot of people on top of it? Besides, God has no form, and so ordains things ahead of time. He's not Zeus. He doesn't by Himself zap people, and doesn't kill billions until time of the Judgment.

(1 Thes.4:13-18)

"
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord." First, this is not pre-tribulation Rapture. It is post. It is a strange passage, but confirms my belief that the Rapture affects both living and dead saints in a moment. But when do saints go up to meet Christ? Christ comes down, lands on the Mount of Olives, and doesn't leave. Are the clouds water vapor, or are they the crafts of the angels? After all, Elijah was translated, but taken up into a fiery chariot. Jesus ascended, but had to keep the body, and couldn't become abstract. So he actually had to go up into a craft of some kind. The clouds of heaven are mentioned elsewhere in Scripture, and are indicated to be the angels. Are the saints united to Christ as He is coming down? Does make sense. Getting to live on the Earth would be arranged at a later time, most likely the beginning of Millennium in 2028.




When some say you have to have scritural references, do they know the scriptures? Pre-tribbers tend to misenterpret and misunderstand Bible references The first resurrection is specifically stated to be only for those who were executed for Christ and didn't receive the mark of the Beast. The "rest of the dead" is logically those who did the opposite. Scripture doesn't say that it happens immedately, since Christ has to set down on the planet and defeat the Beast's kingdom. He has to establish order before the first resurrection occurs. As to the other resurrections, there is no need for Christ to keep returning. Rapture and Resurrection depend on the 8th Day which occurs once, and that lasts for a thousand years. You don't understand this, and it is in my book on Amazon, but I can't tell it all now. Since it depends on the 8th Day, the "union of physical and spiritual life," believers in the end time don't have any more right to miss the bad times than those who came before.

I would like to see one passage at a time that proves pretribulation rapture. It's better to just choose one at a time to prove pre-tribulation than using a barrage of passages. Just choose one at a time, and see if it stands.

 
Jan 9, 2016
241
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I don't have to have scripture references for events that are only now transpiring. First, the Second Coming was prophesied for 2000 years later. That is given in many places in Scripture (the 3rd day prophecies, the 2000 cubits, Peter's "a days is a 1000 years", the 2 male lambs and 1 female lamb, etc). The restoration of Israel was in 1944-48. The German army went into retreat in 1944 at D-Day (June 6) and at the battle of the Bulge, thus guaranteeing the restoration of the nation Israel. Officially the war ended in 1945, and the Jews began flowing back into Palestine to form the nation. In 1947 the provisional government was formed, and in '48 they fought the battle that established them. Jerusalem was restored to Israel in 1967 (June 5th - 10th ?) The EU was formed in 1998 (666 x 3). Israel got an Association Trade Agreement with the EU in 1995 and 2010. Exactly one year later the Palestinians got theirs, making it also an agreement with Israel, since the Bible says in Hebrew that the Beast makes an agreement to "make strong with many", not the people of Israel directly as a ruler. We have been in the latter days since 1944. Israel now exists again, and the Jews already want to build a temple and start their sacrifices. Joel 9:3 speaks of the restoration of Israel and Jerusalem as close promity in time to the battle of Armageddon. Since Armageddon requires Christ be here, the Second Coming must be close now.

Jesus did not say that the abominations of desolation starts at the middle of the 7 years. Daniel says it only lasts 45 days, and there are 1290 days from the middle of the 7 years when the sacrifice is anulled until the A of D starts. The temple must be built first, and the Jews must consider the Antichrist to be the messiah, possibly because he helps build the temple. Since the last 7 years starts with the EU=Palestinian Association Trade Agreement, the "causing" of the sacrifice and oblation to cease has already taken place. It was on June 12th of 2014, when Hamas and the Palestinians escalated the violence against Israel, causing Israel to break their trade agreement stipulation that they would observe human rights, referring only to the Palestinians. When the temple is completed, this will be used against them to forcefully stop them and initiate the power of the Antichrist over Israel. When this happens, the A of D is put into action, and the people of Israel have to run for it. I thought 2016 was the 2nd Coming, but it was the time of the 3rd Temple. The return of Christ is 2 years behind it.

As to the sun turning dark and the moon to blood, this may also be due to the asteroid that hits shortly before Christ comes down. It seems to hit the Mediterranean. Now why does Christ return early to stop God's wrath, if Jesus is God? It seems he is working against the Lord's will, who is actively trying to stamp out everyone. But this was never God's plan. Also, nuclear holocaust is in play, and world war is certainly starting, so why does God need to destroy a lot of people on top of it? Besides, God has no form, and so ordains things ahead of time. He's not Zeus. He doesn't by Himself zap people, and doesn't kill billions until time of the Judgment.

(1 Thes.4:13-18)

"
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord." First, this is not pre-tribulation Rapture. It is post. It is a strange passage, but confirms my belief that the Rapture affects both living and dead saints in a moment. But when do saints go up to meet Christ? Christ comes down, lands on the Mount of Olives, and doesn't leave. Are the clouds water vapor, or are they the crafts of the angels? After all, Elijah was translated, but taken up into a fiery chariot. Jesus ascended, but had to keep the body, and couldn't become abstract. So he actually had to go up into a craft of some kind. The clouds of heaven are mentioned elsewhere in Scripture, and are indicated to be the angels. Are the saints united to Christ as He is coming down? Does make sense. Getting to live on the Earth would be arranged at a later time, most likely the beginning of Millennium in 2028.




When some say you have to have scritural references, do they know the scriptures? Pre-tribbers tend to misenterpret and misunderstand Bible references The first resurrection is specifically stated to be only for those who were executed for Christ and didn't receive the mark of the Beast. The "rest of the dead" is logically those who did the opposite. Scripture doesn't say that it happens immedately, since Christ has to set down on the planet and defeat the Beast's kingdom. He has to establish order before the first resurrection occurs. As to the other resurrections, there is no need for Christ to keep returning. Rapture and Resurrection depend on the 8th Day which occurs once, and that lasts for a thousand years. You don't understand this, and it is in my book on Amazon, but I can't tell it all now. Since it depends on the 8th Day, the "union of physical and spiritual life," believers in the end time don't have any more right to miss the bad times than those who came before.

I would like to see one passage at a time that proves pretribulation rapture. It's better to just choose one at a time to prove pre-tribulation than using a barrage of passages. Just choose one at a time, and see if it stands.

One verse? I guess I would say Luke 21:36

"Watch therefore, and pray always, that you may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son"
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
63
you took the scriptures out of context there brother. Here I will show you.

Revelation 7:9"After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, 10 and crying out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” 11 All the angels stood around the throne and the elders and the four living creatures, and fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12 saying:"

Take note of what they are wearing here.

Revelation 3:4You[b] have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy.5 He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

So we have those who are raptured in heaven wearing the white robes. And here in revelation 19 we see the ones in white again on horses coming with Jesus as his armies.


Revelation 19:14
14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean,[f] followed Him on white horses

Maybe I misread the part you mentioned in Luke about the Eagles. But that is not the people who are raptured and they are not eating those raptured but are eating the followers of satan and eating their flesh.

Revelation 19:
17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, “Come and gather together for the supper of the great God,[h] 18 that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, free[i] and slave, both small and great.”
My dear brother,

I agree they are wearing white robes in heaven. But they didn't get raptured there, they were killed. Read on to Rev 20:

Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God

If you look back also at Rev 6, the souls under the alter, it becomes clear. Souls are of dead people, not living transformed in spiritual bodies. Plus it says they were SLAIN. That's a pretty big and compelling clue.

I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. [SUP]10 [/SUP]And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” [SUP]11 [/SUP]Then a white robe was given to each of them..

Notice they too have white robes? Only dead people are in heaven.

If you look back at the Great Multitude, you see that they come out of Great Tribulation. Nothing says they were rapture. Great Tribulation implies they were killed.

“These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation..."

You see, the Northern Muslim killers, north of Israel, start killing Christians everywhere they can in their territories. Doesn't this sound familiar??
 
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truthman8

Guest
First, that is a somewhat vague and ambiguous statement. Escape all what things, exactly? There are a lot of Christians who have not and are not escaping anything bad at this time? There is mention of the Jews in Revelation who hide out for 1260 days. They escape the wrath of the Beast physically, but there is no mention of a "rapture" for them. But looking at the context of your scripture, it seems likely that what Jesus was referring to was spiritual rescue, and not as likely physical rescue. There is no mention of the gathering of the elect here, and those do escape death due to the Rapture are not the only people who will be able to stand before the Son of Man. It is those who are not snared, or influenced, against Christ by the developments of the End Time.
 
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truthman8

Guest
One verse? I guess I would say Luke 21:36


"
Watch therefore, and pray always, that you may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son"

First, that is a somewhat vague and ambiguous statement. Escape all what things, exactly? There are a lot of Christians who have not and are not escaping anything bad at this time? There is mention of the Jews in Revelation who hide out for 1260 days. They escape the wrath of the Beast physically, but there is no mention of them all being "raptured". But looking at the context of your scripture, it seems likely that what Jesus was referring to was spiritual rescue, and not as likely physical rescue. There is no mention of the gathering of the elect here, and those do escape death due to the Rapture are not the only people who will be able to stand before the Son of Man. It is those who are not snared, or influenced, against Christ by the developments of the End Time.
 
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