Obedience & righteousness - extreme grace version
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This is what believers in the grace of our Lord Jesus have to say about "sanctification"..the word itself means = "to be set apart"
We are perfectly sanctified in Christ now....very true....we as an identity in the new creation in Christ will never be more holy....
however there is a "sanctifying" of our behavior that is on-going that reflects our true nature in Christ...so in essence...we are becoming outwardly who we really are in our inner man which is in Christ.
God sets apart ( sanctifies ) our attitudes and actions outwardly but you are 100% set apart ( sanctified ) as a person..the real you in your inner man..the new creation in Christ.
Hebrews 10:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. ( this is present passive..passive is that something is being done to you ...the Spirit of the Lord in us changing us. )
Here is what Jesus told Paul on the road to Damascus....having been sanctified ( perfect passive )..= done deal
Acts 26:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] rescuing you from the Jewish people and from the Gentiles, to whom I am sending you,
[SUP]18 [/SUP] to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.' ( perfect passive )
We are perfectly sanctified in Christ now....very true....we as an identity in the new creation in Christ will never be more holy....
however there is a "sanctifying" of our behavior that is on-going that reflects our true nature in Christ...so in essence...we are becoming outwardly who we really are in our inner man which is in Christ.
God sets apart ( sanctifies ) our attitudes and actions outwardly but you are 100% set apart ( sanctified ) as a person..the real you in your inner man..the new creation in Christ.
Hebrews 10:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. ( this is present passive..passive is that something is being done to you ...the Spirit of the Lord in us changing us. )
Here is what Jesus told Paul on the road to Damascus....having been sanctified ( perfect passive )..= done deal
Acts 26:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] rescuing you from the Jewish people and from the Gentiles, to whom I am sending you,
[SUP]18 [/SUP] to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.' ( perfect passive )
Knowing who you are in Christ because of His finished work that made us "alive" unto God now will change our outward behavior...."awake to righteousness and sin not..".....this is a call to see who you are in Christ and in knowing that....His life in you changes our behavior..
Knowing that we are dead to sin and "alive" to God is what is needed for real transformation in a Christian's life.
When we see that we are the righteousness of God in Christ... - we become outwardly who we really are in our new creation in Christ.
1 Corinthians 15:34 (KJV)
[SUP]34 [/SUP]Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.
It is obvious from scripture that we are to walk out the holiness that is already in us in Christ..in our inner man..the new creation.
There is a difference between us as a person being "set apart" ( sanctified in our spirit ) and "setting apart " ( sanctifying ) our behavior outwardly to reflect our true self in the Lord now. It's definitely a process!.
1 Peter 1:15-16 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior;
[SUP]16 [/SUP] because it is written, "YOU SHALL BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY."
The question remains..is it us doing it by our own self-effort?..or the life of Christ with His fruit bearing in and through our lives.
Knowing that we are dead to sin and "alive" to God is what is needed for real transformation in a Christian's life.
When we see that we are the righteousness of God in Christ... - we become outwardly who we really are in our new creation in Christ.
1 Corinthians 15:34 (KJV)
[SUP]34 [/SUP]Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.
It is obvious from scripture that we are to walk out the holiness that is already in us in Christ..in our inner man..the new creation.
There is a difference between us as a person being "set apart" ( sanctified in our spirit ) and "setting apart " ( sanctifying ) our behavior outwardly to reflect our true self in the Lord now. It's definitely a process!.
1 Peter 1:15-16 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior;
[SUP]16 [/SUP] because it is written, "YOU SHALL BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY."
The question remains..is it us doing it by our own self-effort?..or the life of Christ with His fruit bearing in and through our lives.
P
I've got two videos to watch, Grace777x70.
I'm supposed to watch them to see if these folks are false-teachers.
Supposedly, you subscribe to these false-teachers' points of view.
...do I need to watch them?
https://youtu.be/Xf0B2zowsFM
https://youtu.be/BGKs2biHIe8
I'm supposed to watch them to see if these folks are false-teachers.
Supposedly, you subscribe to these false-teachers' points of view.
...do I need to watch them?
https://youtu.be/Xf0B2zowsFM
https://youtu.be/BGKs2biHIe8
G
It amazes me how many cannot see the absolute contradiction in this statement.
One has to change this statement to make it "work".....
we are justified by faith and works alone, through faith and works alone. Because if we don't have faith and works our faith is dead.
We are saved by Grace the moment we believe. If our faith is not working or producing fruits it is DEAD. But not Grace. Because we are saved by Grace.
New American Standard Bible
If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.
He can't deny Himself........
New American Standard Bible
because we are members of His body.
One has to change this statement to make it "work".....
we are justified by faith and works alone, through faith and works alone. Because if we don't have faith and works our faith is dead.
We are saved by Grace the moment we believe. If our faith is not working or producing fruits it is DEAD. But not Grace. Because we are saved by Grace.
New American Standard Bible
If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.
He can't deny Himself........
New American Standard Bible
because we are members of His body.
T
"Knowing that we are dead to sin and "alive" to God is what is needed for real transformation in a Christian's life." - Grace777x70
Let me offer a personal testimony then
Last night while in prayer I thanked God for the sudden leaps and bounds I have witnessed in my outward growth and behavior recently... since I have become aware of my inward sanctification.
I agree with what you say here to a greater degree. I would say that the knowledge of our inner sanctification really catapults? ...uhm ... really propels? ... really causes our outward changes to multiply quickly?
I did experience outward changes before I knew ... but now they are greater ... swifter ...
The knowledge is a Catalyst ...?
Let me offer a personal testimony then
Last night while in prayer I thanked God for the sudden leaps and bounds I have witnessed in my outward growth and behavior recently... since I have become aware of my inward sanctification.
I agree with what you say here to a greater degree. I would say that the knowledge of our inner sanctification really catapults? ...uhm ... really propels? ... really causes our outward changes to multiply quickly?
I did experience outward changes before I knew ... but now they are greater ... swifter ...
The knowledge is a Catalyst ...?
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I do like the first one..it's Dr. Andrew Farley talking about 1 John ...he is a definite teacher of grace --works-based mindsets will not like him at all...that's a gimmie
The second one is the guy from Holland that is talking against ( I got this idea from coby - who is from Holland ) the way the Dutch recite the Lord's prayer word for word as in a formula. He uses the Lord's prayer to show how grace has affected it....like we are now delivered from the evil one...our sins are now forgiven in Christ....some things I agree with..other I don't...I only watched it once....
Of the two I would recommend Dr. Farley...the first video..
The second one is the guy from Holland that is talking against ( I got this idea from coby - who is from Holland ) the way the Dutch recite the Lord's prayer word for word as in a formula. He uses the Lord's prayer to show how grace has affected it....like we are now delivered from the evil one...our sins are now forgiven in Christ....some things I agree with..other I don't...I only watched it once....
Of the two I would recommend Dr. Farley...the first video..
"Knowing that we are dead to sin and "alive" to God is what is needed for real transformation in a Christian's life." - Grace777x70
Let me offer a personal testimony then
Last night while in prayer I thanked God for the sudden leaps and bounds I have witnessed in my outward growth and behavior recently... since I have become aware of my inward sanctification.
I agree with what you say here to a greater degree. I would say that the knowledge of our inner sanctification really catapults? ...uhm ... really propels? ... really causes our outward changes to multiply quickly?
I did experience outward changes before I knew ... but now they are greater ... swifter ...
Catalyst ...
Let me offer a personal testimony then
Last night while in prayer I thanked God for the sudden leaps and bounds I have witnessed in my outward growth and behavior recently... since I have become aware of my inward sanctification.
I agree with what you say here to a greater degree. I would say that the knowledge of our inner sanctification really catapults? ...uhm ... really propels? ... really causes our outward changes to multiply quickly?
I did experience outward changes before I knew ... but now they are greater ... swifter ...
Catalyst ...
...just kidding..we are not really gnostics...LOLThis scripture is what can be used to verify what you are seeing..when you acknowledge who you are in Christ..your faith becomes effective or working to get results..
Philemon 1:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] That the communication of thy faith may become effectual by the acknowledging of every good thing which is in you in Christ Jesus.
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T
I agree..I witnessed the same thing in my life...al true grace believers do...welcome to the land of the so-called gnostics......just kidding..we are not really gnostics...LOL
...just kidding..we are not really gnostics...LOLYesterday I answered the phone and instead of saying "hello" ...I exclaimed "I love you!" lol ...
...actually I said "I love y --!" then stopped suddenly - startled by it, scratched my head, chuckled and said "hello ..."
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/131188-what-does-mean-rest-god-3.html#post2482973
#51
This is the original post from Grace7x77 refering to this guy in holland and the interactions we had around this.
It is strange how it has to come down to proof about someone, as if they are hiding there propoganda or the people they approve of.
#51
This is the original post from Grace7x77 refering to this guy in holland and the interactions we had around this.
It is strange how it has to come down to proof about someone, as if they are hiding there propoganda or the people they approve of.
E
Yesterday I answered the phone and instead of saying "hello" ...I exclaimed "I love you!" lol ...
...actually I said "I love y --!" then stopped suddenly - startled by it, scratched my head, chuckled and said "hello ..."
It is amazing how the love of God flows in us who have experienced it. This type of love does not come from knowledge (gnostic) but from experience.
That's why in spite of what the legalistic claim. We are nothing like Gnostics.
Knowledge (gnosis) is important, and helps greatly, But does not make me more saved or less saved than the one standing or sitting next to me.
Experience is what brings faith alive. All the words of knowledge is useless if it is separated from action.
F
"Confession is not a transaction, not a negotiation in order to secure forgiveness; it is the after-the-last grasp of a corpse that finally can afford to admit it’s dead and accept resurrection. Forgiveness surrounds us, beats upon us all our lives; we confess only to wake ourselves up to what we already have…We are not forgiven, therefore, because we made ourselves forgivable or even because we had faith; we are forgiven solely because there is a Forgiver." - Robert Farrar Capon
I have answered in post 31343 and 1351 and just recently in 1371..which I will quote here again....I believe some elements have already been fulfilled after Jesus died and rose from the grave but for the most part we can glean lot's of good stuff from it as I said before in a previous post. BUT not to recite as in a formula. The forgiveness part is not conditional now under the New Covenant but the life of Christ in us in knowing we are forgiven - releases His forgiveness in us to others because we have received our forgiveness. It's the same for love.. we love because we know His love for us first.
The second one is the guy from Holland that is talking against ( I got this idea from coby - who is from Holland ) the way the Dutch recite the Lord's prayer word for word as in a formula. He uses the Lord's prayer to show how grace has affected it....like we are now delivered from the evil one...our sins are now forgiven in Christ....some things I agree with..other I don't...I only watched it once....
The second one is the guy from Holland that is talking against ( I got this idea from coby - who is from Holland ) the way the Dutch recite the Lord's prayer word for word as in a formula. He uses the Lord's prayer to show how grace has affected it....like we are now delivered from the evil one...our sins are now forgiven in Christ....some things I agree with..other I don't...I only watched it once....
My point is simple. These teachers are heretics in my book.
I would not post videos of them or suggest you listen to them to find spiritual answers.
Now in the world of mystics, there is nothing wrong with either teacher, they emphasise a whole strand of teaching which the poster supports. That is why talking tight theology fails, because they are not into this definition or way of looking at faith.
So taking scripture and just excluding the gospels because they were before the cross and so address Jews, is what they call context. Words like, we can learn things from it, mean nothing. Either Jesus's words matter to believers or they do not.
It appears here they do not.
I would not post videos of them or suggest you listen to them to find spiritual answers.
Now in the world of mystics, there is nothing wrong with either teacher, they emphasise a whole strand of teaching which the poster supports. That is why talking tight theology fails, because they are not into this definition or way of looking at faith.
So taking scripture and just excluding the gospels because they were before the cross and so address Jews, is what they call context. Words like, we can learn things from it, mean nothing. Either Jesus's words matter to believers or they do not.
It appears here they do not.
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