So is the general consensus that demon possession in the Bible was mental illness?

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nogard

Senior Member
Aug 21, 2013
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Just checking in on this issue. As you know, demon possession is mentioned quite a bit in the new testament. When it's symptoms are described, it sounds a lot like autism or other forms of mental illness.

Demon possession is not isolated to the New Testament, or even to Christianity, but the one commonality is that it is believed in generally uneducated, third world societies (note that I am referring to the belief that specific people in your community are demon possessed and that they can be exorcised. Not just the abstract belief of demon possession. The idea that demon possession is possible is not the same as believing, along with the rest of the community, that your neighbor two doors down is currently demon possessed.)

Given the fact that demon possession doesn't happen in an educated, first world society, it seems to reason that demon possession, as recorded in scripture, is actually a reference to the mentally ill. Unless you think demons purposely only possess people in poor, uneducated communities....
 
You have hard proof "that demon possession doesn't happen in educated, first world societies" ?
 
nogard said:
Just checking in on this issue. As you know, demon possession is mentioned quite a bit in the new testament. When it's symptoms are described, it sounds a lot like autism or other forms of mental illness.

Demon possession is not isolated to the New Testament, or even to Christianity, but the one commonality is that it is believed in generally uneducated, third world societies (note that I am referring to the belief that specific people in your community are demon possessed and that they can be exorcised. Not just the abstract belief of demon possession. The idea that demon possession is possible is not the same as believing, along with the rest of the community, that your neighbor two doors down is currently demon possessed.)

Given the fact that demon possession doesn't happen in an educated, first world society, it seems to reason that demon possession, as recorded in scripture, is actually a reference to the mentally ill. Unless you think demons purposely only possess people in poor, uneducated communities....
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Oh, really? Oh, really?

Demon possession happens. Satan and his ilk have just fleeced Western society with the 'golden carrot' of materialism etc. so they don't bother showing their hand too often in my overt ways. Mental illness is different to demon possession. Do mental illnesses have a spiritual component (probably - as do all things). Are all cases of demon possession merely mental illnesses? Absolutely not. But the spiritual realm is very real. Just as there is one true God and He has many angels, so exist angels that aren't of God, the most well-known of them being Satan.
 
Do I have proof. Show me a video, news article, or anything that documents a case of demon possession in the modern first world similar to those depicted in Bible times.
 
Evil thoughts does plays a roll in how the brain function or develops. If spirit can only uses what you have stored up memories in the brain in order to communicate with you. And if you cannot understand if the spirit that is dwelling in you, that if it is of God or of the devil through memories what it is written about the Holy spirit ; then you will be lost and follow a corrupt spirit not knowing that it is corrupted. The devil distorts the mind so that we cannot examine in our minds whether in how to test to see what type of spirit that is dwelling in us. And so, we need to recall things that were said in the scriptures to help us to know what spirit to listen to.
 
Tintin said:
Oh, really? Oh, really?

Demon possession happens. Satan and his ilk have just fleeced Western society with the 'golden carrot' of materialism etc. so they don't bother showing their hand too often in my overt ways. Mental illness is different to demon possession. Do mental illnesses have a spiritual component (probably - as do all things). Are all cases of demon possession merely mental illnesses? Absolutely not. But the spiritual realm is very real. Just as there is one true God and He has many angels, so exist angels that aren't of God, the most well-known of them being Satan.
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This makes no sense and points directly back to what I was saying in the first place. Why is it that demon possession is so blatant in uneducated third world communities but it is "covert" and "secret" in the modern world? Why aren't there cases of demon possession going on in the United States, UK, and so forth? We still hear of them in India and in the poorer regions of South America, Africa, and Asia.

But once knowledge and medicine come into play, all of a sudden people don't get demon possessed anymore? That is a very strange coincidence. Apparently you are content with believing that demons trade blatant possession for covert materialism for some reason. There is no evidence or reason for you to believe that, but I guess that's all you got to go with given the facts of the situation.
 
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4enlightment said:
Evil thoughts does plays a roll in how the brain function or develops. If spirit can only uses what you have stored up memories in the brain in order to communicate with you. And if you cannot understand if the spirit that is dwelling in you, that if it is of God or of the devil through memories what it is written about the Holy spirit ; then you will be lost and follow a corrupt spirit not knowing that it is corrupted. The devil distorts the mind so that we cannot examine in our minds whether in how to test to see what type of spirit that is dwelling in us. And so, we need to recall things that were said in the scriptures to help us to know what spirit to listen to.
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While this post has merit in it of itself, it actually doesn't answer the question at hand, which is why does Biblical demon possession not occur in educated communities?
 
nogard said:
While this post has merit in it of itself, it actually doesn't answer the question at hand, which is why does Biblical demon possession not occur in educated communities?
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Why doesn't it? I'm sure there are some people holding down the truth in unrighteousness in educated communities because they are demon possessed.
 
nogard said:
Do I have proof. Show me a video, news article, or anything that documents a case of demon possession in the modern first world similar to those depicted in Bible times.
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I did not make the statement, you did. Now show me proof.
 
I have a group of mentally ill people I minister to. They do not have any of the symptoms of demon possession which are in the Bible. In fact, I would suggest you probably wouldn't know a mentally ill person if you met one!

Mentally ill people come in all shapes and sizes. And although depression is becoming more and more accepted, people still have little understanding of disorders like bipolar 1, schizophrenia and schizoaffective disorder. One of the people in my group has Schizoaffective disorder, and she is working on her Ph.D. So much for the myth that demon possessed people in the bible were mentally ill.

I prefer to think that when Jesus says he delivers someone from a demon, that is what he did. And I am quite certain that demons are a bit more subtle these days.The enemy uses his manipulation to ruin people's lives through things like pornography, gambling, adultery and other demonic pastimes.

And I do believe anyone who is not a Christian can be possessed. It takes the Holy Spirit to deliver a person, and to keep them. I am willing to bet that demons are alive and well in our society. As for whether I am educated, besides my Bachelor's degree in Science from a secular university, my teaching certificate and 28 years as a teacher, and my Master's degree, well, you can decide if that is elite enough for you! Oh, I meant educated!
 
nogard said:
This makes no sense and points directly back to what I was saying in the first place. Why is it that demon possession is so blatant in uneducated third world communities but it is "covert" and "secret" in the modern world? Why aren't there cases of demon possession going on in the United States, UK, and so forth? We still hear of them in India and in the poorer regions of South America, Africa, and Asia.

But once knowledge and medicine come into play, all of a sudden people don't get demon possessed anymore? That is a very strange coincidence. Apparently you are content with believing that demons trade blatant possession for covert materialism for some reason. There is no evidence or reason for you to believe that, but I guess that's all you got to go with given the facts of the situation.
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I have had this same thought, I'm sure it still happens but people just try to drug their patience instead of getting straight to the point. Which is that some people are just straight up possessed. Just like with some of these "psychopaths" I'm sure it just possession, they are not "psychopaths" that's just seems to be what they label it.
 
Chuckt said:
Why doesn't it? I'm sure there are some people holding down the truth in unrighteousness in educated communities because they are demon possessed.
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There's no doubt that one could argue that there are different kinds of demon possession that occur in the world. The kind of possession described by 4Enlightenment, if one were to consider that possession rather than just our sin nature at work, could certainly be a valid form of possession, but it is not the type of possession I am talking about.

I am talking about the type of possession recorded in the Bible, and whether or not that was actually demon possession or mental illness. If it was truly demon possession, why does that kind of behavior only happen in uneducated third world communities? Why does that kind of possession end when knowledge and medicine arrive with a society? Is it just a coincidence? Likely not, as this is evident in every first world society today. This kind of possession just does not happen there, but it still is reported today in the poorer, uneducated parts of the world. Why is that? I think it's a sign that it really wasn't demon possession but rather mental illness. Unless you have some valid explanation for why demons seem to change their behavior the second a society becomes educated....
 
Your basis is an assumption. Who's to say a lot of mental illness isn't, in fact, demon possession? What if they had what we call a schizophrenic or multiple personality in Jesus' day, i.e., the possessed? If so, with all our modern hubris, we're all the worse at being able to deal with it for living in denial, which, isn't it something, we, in fact, aren't able to deal with it. Many mental illnesses are considered incurable by fancy shmancy modern thinking or medicine: keep them doped-up is all she wrote. Jesus could set somebody right, and without a pharmacy. If you think you're sophisticated, because you don't believe, could this be just a born again flat earther mentality, with a lot of uncured mental patients of atheistic medicine? Like there are a lot of uncured mental patients warehoused, who need Jesus?
 
JosephsDreams said:
I did not make the statement, you did. Now show me proof.
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Oh dear. I guess I'll play along.

My proof is there are no "video, news article, or anything that documents a case of demon possession in the modern first world similar to those depicted in Bible times."

If you think this is untrue, then the burden is on YOU to come up with proof that can discount my claim.
 
nogard said:
Just checking in on this issue. As you know, demon possession is mentioned quite a bit in the new testament. When it's symptoms are described, it sounds a lot like autism or other forms of mental illness.

Demon possession is not isolated to the New Testament, or even to Christianity, but the one commonality is that it is believed in generally uneducated, third world societies (note that I am referring to the belief that specific people in your community are demon possessed and that they can be exorcised. Not just the abstract belief of demon possession. The idea that demon possession is possible is not the same as believing, along with the rest of the community, that your neighbor two doors down is currently demon possessed.)

Given the fact that demon possession doesn't happen in an educated, first world society, it seems to reason that demon possession, as recorded in scripture, is actually a reference to the mentally ill. Unless you think demons purposely only possess people in poor, uneducated communities....
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I always thought, well, Knowledge puffs up, so why wouldnt devil be in someone filled with pride?

Pride seems to be more the devils condemnation in the same

Do all devils have to make you crawl on the ceilings and throw you around though to be understood as devils?

Because Satan was allowed to touch flesh and bone in Job

There was a woman who was bound by Satan with a spirit of infirmity that made her unable to lifte herself up (and thats all). being opressed of the devil in that sense too I would think.
 
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nogard said:
There's no doubt that one could argue that there are different kinds of demon possession that occur in the world. The kind of possession described by 4Enlightenment, if one were to consider that possession rather than just our sin nature at work, could certainly be a valid form of possession, but it is not the type of possession I am talking about.

I am talking about the type of possession recorded in the Bible, and whether or not that was actually demon possession or mental illness. If it was truly demon possession, why does that kind of behavior only happen in uneducated third world communities? Why does that kind of possession end when knowledge and medicine arrive with a society? Is it just a coincidence? Likely not, as this is evident in every first world society today. This kind of possession just does not happen there, but it still is reported today in the poorer, uneducated parts of the world. Why is that? I think it's a sign that it really wasn't demon possession but rather mental illness. Unless you have some valid explanation for why demons seem to change their behavior the second a society becomes educated....
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It happens here but it isn't documented because educated people don't believe.
There are books on it but educated people don't believe so if you have rosey colored glasses on, roses is all you can see.
 
Chuckt said:
Why doesn't it? I'm sure there are some people holding down the truth in unrighteousness in educated communities because they are demon possessed.
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Thats what I was thinking, sometimes the biggest devils (so to speak) are those who think the most of themselves lol
 
Angela53510 said:
I have a group of mentally ill people I minister to. They do not have any of the symptoms of demon possession which are in the Bible. In fact, I would suggest you probably wouldn't know a mentally ill person if you met one!

Mentally ill people come in all shapes and sizes. And although depression is becoming more and more accepted, people still have little understanding of disorders like bipolar 1, schizophrenia and schizoaffective disorder. One of the people in my group has Schizoaffective disorder, and she is working on her Ph.D. So much for the myth that demon possessed people in the bible were mentally ill.

I prefer to think that when Jesus says he delivers someone from a demon, that is what he did. And I am quite certain that demons are a bit more subtle these days.The enemy uses his manipulation to ruin people's lives through things like pornography, gambling, adultery and other demonic pastimes.

And I do believe anyone who is not a Christian can be possessed. It takes the Holy Spirit to deliver a person, and to keep them. I am willing to bet that demons are alive and well in our society. As for whether I am educated, besides my Bachelor's degree in Science from a secular university, my teaching certificate and 28 years as a teacher, and my Master's degree, well, you can decide if that is elite enough for you! Oh, I meant educated!
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First off, I know not all mentally ill people act the way demon possessed people did in the Bible. I know that. I wasn't stereotyping all mentally ill people. But there are autistic/schizophrenic people who do match the behavioral descriptions of Biblically possessed people rather closely. My coworker has an autistic son who could match those descriptions quite accurately.

Also, similar to TinTin, you mention demons are more subtle today, even given some examples of how they can corrupt people in these subtle ways. The problem is that there is no reason given as to why they are more subtle. I mean, what reasoning is there to believe that demons decided to be less obvious and work more stealthily? There's no real basis for this! Demon possession has been the same way (old testament to new and beyond) for thousands of years in this regard. And you're happy to just accept that they must have changed to stealthier tactics!?
 
nogard said:
There's no doubt that one could argue that there are different kinds of demon possession that occur in the world. The kind of possession described by 4Enlightenment, if one were to consider that possession rather than just our sin nature at work, could certainly be a valid form of possession, but it is not the type of possession I am talking about.

I am talking about the type of possession recorded in the Bible, and whether or not that was actually demon possession or mental illness. If it was truly demon possession, why does that kind of behavior only happen in uneducated third world communities? Why does that kind of possession end when knowledge and medicine arrive with a society? Is it just a coincidence? Likely not, as this is evident in every first world society today. This kind of possession just does not happen there, but it still is reported today in the poorer, uneducated parts of the world. Why is that? I think it's a sign that it really wasn't demon possession but rather mental illness. Unless you have some valid explanation for why demons seem to change their behavior the second a society becomes educated....
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Give us some concrete Biblical example of demon possession. You know, the verse, the chapter, and book. And please quote it. I think you are talking off the top of your hat, and you know little about either mental illness or the Bible.
 
PilgrimPassingThru said:
Thats what I was thinking, sometimes the biggest devils (so to speak) are those who think the most of themselves lol
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I went to a Christian group at a secular university. There was a man who walked in and gave the pastor his resume in the occult. He got scared because the spirits he was dealing with didn't want him to leave and they figured out that he knew who they were. And he became a Christian. The pastor told me way back when I went to college. Who knew that people in the occult could have their own resume in the occult but there are people who have them.
 
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