So is the general consensus that demon possession in the Bible was mental illness?

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nogard said:
This isn't about belief in demons or angels or God or Satan. It is about the people in the gospels who were called demon possessed, and who behaved in certain ways because of that possessions. This is about whether that was actually demon possession or not, given that demons apparently don't possess people in this same manner once the society becomes educated.



that doesn't necessarily help things with this discussion.
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You haven't really explained why they once could and why they can't today. It isn't like the physiology of people has changed.

If someone accused you of running down the street with an ice pick and stabbing people in the skull, what would you say about that accusation? Usually people would say, "I know him. He was a good kid. I don't believe it." So how would you explain the accusation?

Shortly after completing his lengthy confessions in 1991, Dahmer had requested to Detective Patrick Murphy that he be given a copy of the Bible.[176] This request was granted and Dahmer gradually devoted himself to religion and became a born-again Christian. On his father's urging, he also read creationist books from the Institute for Creation Research.[203] In May 1994, Dahmer was baptized by Roy Ratcliff, a minister in the Church of Christ and a graduate of Oklahoma Christian University, in the prison whirlpool.[204][205]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Dahmer
 
nogard said:
This isn't about belief in demons or angels or God or Satan. It is about the people in the gospels who were called demon possessed, and who behaved in certain ways because of that possessions. This is about whether that was actually demon possession or not, given that demons apparently don't possess people in this same manner once the society becomes educated.



that doesn't necessarily help things with this discussion.
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The burden of proof is on you.
 
1 Samuel 21:12-15 (GNV)


12 And David [a]considered these words, and was sore afraid of Achish the king of Gath.
13 And he changed his behavior before them, and feigned himself mad in their hands, and scrabbled on the doors of the gate, and let his spittle fall down upon his beard.
14 Then said Achish unto his servants, Lo, ye see the man is beside himself, wherefore have ye brought him to me?
15 Have I need of mad men, that ye have brought this fellow to play the mad man in my presence? [c]shall he come into mine house?


david faked madness (mental illness). no one thought he was demon possessed, they thought he was crazy. they were not stupid back then, they knew the difference between mental illness and demon possession.
 
nogard said:
This isn't about belief in demons or angels or God or Satan. It is about the people in the gospels who were called demon possessed, and who behaved in certain ways because of that possessions. This is about whether that was actually demon possession or not, given that demons apparently don't possess people in this same manner once the society becomes educated.



that doesn't necessarily help things with this discussion.
Click to expand...

First of all, the society we are talking about was very educated. Educated too much in actuality. We couldn't hold a candle to what these people had in their minds and driven home. We are lucky if we remember what time we have to get up for work. These folks could tell us what time Job got up in Chapter 7 from MEMORY.

We ain't progressing. We may have advanced technology, but these folks were wise WAY beyond us.

Who says the people that were demon possessed were "stoopid?" We see the result of the Son of Man face to face with demons who possessed those folks. Obviously, the "scholarly" would have tried to drive these demons out.................to no avail.
 
nogard said:
I'm going to head out, so thanks for all your responses. It seems like the general consensus is that demon possession has changed over time to "adapt" to the modern world. This seems to satisfy everyone concerning this, although it really is just an assumption at best, but I suppose it's plausible. It will forever be a mystery to me why possession and miracles were more blatant/public in the older times than they are today.
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Because we live in the dispensation of faith. Wonders, signs and visual effects were for proof of the faith we have today.
 
"Educated first world, society" misdiagnose some who are demon possesed as mentally ill.

And Satan is good as maurading as an angel of light, so,are his demons.

Plus demons run away from followers of Jesus Christ...you still see demon possession in wiccan and other pagan circles.
 
nogard said:
I'm going to head out, so thanks for all your responses. It seems like the general consensus is that demon possession has changed over time to "adapt" to the modern world. This seems to satisfy everyone concerning this, although it really is just an assumption at best, but I suppose it's plausible. It will forever be a mystery to me why possession and miracles were more blatant/public in the older times than they are today.
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Because people are blind, Yet they think they see....most "Educated " people are blind to the spiritual world, they don't see angels Or demons.
 
I'm sorry i came in so late on this discussion..... But i think there's a very important point that's being missed.... God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit still exist... We're still here.... So satan must still be running around somewhere.....what had him thrown out of heaven is what he still pursues today and tries to instill in God's "creation" his children... Because satan was also one of God's "creation" he has an "inside track" on things because of the position he once held.. Once he was highly favored but because of his arrogance was cast from heaven by Michael and his angels.... So, who did God replace him with? Who did he put in his place to be so highly favored? Another angel? No, us... Humans who do not have anywhere NEAR the glory he was had... Humans who have NO understanding of what TRUE glory is... Humans, who are given grace, forgiveness, mercy, love, justification, sanctification AND the only begotten Son of God..... And after he returned to the Father these humans were given The Holy Spirit to dwell in them?!!?!? "while i Lucifer was cast from heaven itself".. Ya, we're on his bad side... He knows the spiritual realm a lot better than we do.... Our "level" of relationship with the Holy Trinity has changed since the days of the old testament.... So the "possession" he does today has had to change..... It all comes down to this..... If you believe in the true holiness of heaven, then you got to k ow the other part is there too.... Thank God for fellow believers, Jesus, the Holy Spirit and unconditional love......
 
*When the servant of the man of God got up and went out early the next morning, an army with horses and chariots had surrounded the city. “Oh no, my lord! What shall we do?” the servant asked.*“Don’t be afraid,” the prophet answered. “Those who are with us are more than those who are with them.”*And Elisha prayed, “Open his eyes, Lord, so that he may see.” Then the Lord opened the servant’s eyes, and he looked and saw the hills full of horses and chariots of fire all around Elisha. - 2 Kings 6:15-17 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2Kings6:15-17&version=NIV
 
Humans were not created to take Satan's place....God tells us we are His children..He never said that to angels...Satan is just a fallen angel.
 
Yes we are his children but the other angels that fell with him in their arrogance don't you think they felt the same way he did? We who once dwelt with the Father in heaven itself have been replaced by this?....we were made in his image, we were made to worship him and to love him and to communicate with him...... Why would God make things such as these when he had Angels to attend him.......lucifer wanted to be like God, what do you think he feels toward us..... What do you think he would stop at to afflict us if he had the arrogance to approach the Throne..?.. Nothing
 
Different...

And his fame went throughout all Syria: and they brought unto him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and those which were possessed with devils, and those which were lunatick, and those that had the palsy; and he healed them.
(Mat 4:24)
 
What's that verse in the Bible "even the angels long to look into this..."
 
nogard said:
Just checking in on this issue. As you know, demon possession is mentioned quite a bit in the new testament. When it's symptoms are described, it sounds a lot like autism or other forms of mental illness.

Demon possession is not isolated to the New Testament, or even to Christianity, but the one commonality is that it is believed in generally uneducated, third world societies (note that I am referring to the belief that specific people in your community are demon possessed and that they can be exorcised. Not just the abstract belief of demon possession. The idea that demon possession is possible is not the same as believing, along with the rest of the community, that your neighbor two doors down is currently demon possessed.)

Given the fact that demon possession doesn't happen in an educated, first world society, it seems to reason that demon possession, as recorded in scripture, is actually a reference to the mentally ill. Unless you think demons purposely only possess people in poor, uneducated communities....
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Well, considering I live in a First World Nation, am educated, and have known people to be delivered from demon possession -- good luck trying to get consensus on your opinion.
 
Txroads said:
What's that verse in the Bible "even the angels long to look into this..."
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Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.
(1Pe 1:12)
 
Divers diseases....that's "the bends", isn't it?

Just a little levity, just kidding..
 
Angela53510 said:
Give us some concrete Biblical example of demon possession. You know, the verse, the chapter, and book. And please quote it. I think you are talking off the top of your hat, and you know little about either mental illness or the Bible.
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The modern attitude to demon possession is very instructive isn't it? So many take the attitude that there is no such thing as demon possession, and infer that Jesus Christ Himself knew quite well that there was no such thing, not seeing that, by such an attitude, they put themselves in the place of the superior person, and claim to know all the private opinions of the Almighty about iniquity (wickedness).

Jesus unquestionably did believe in the fact of demon possession. Shouldn't we as Christians be asking, "Is there such a thing Lord? Show me, I am open to knowing what you want me to understand on this issue." Yet we tend to say, "This is what I think, logically, now prove me wrong." The New Testament is full of Supernatural; Jesus Christ saw what we cannot see; supernatural forces at work. "Try the Spirits whether they are of God." (1 John 4:1).

Nogard suggests all demoniacal influences are only natural sicknesses. But certain parts being infested by demons is real and different from natural sicknesses. Read the Records of Our Lord casting out demons: "Thou dumb and deaf Spirit, I charge thee, come out." (Mark 9:25). Other times He said nothing about demons when He healed the deaf and dumb. (Matthew 9:32).

Our Lord many times mentioned demons, and attaching them to particular organs affected. But, in regards to Gadara, he was possessed by demons not only in a particular organ, but thru the whole of his body. how many personalities can be in one body? Take this man of Gardara "And Jesus asked him, What is thy name? And he said Legion; for many devil's were entered into him." (Luke 8:30).

The case of Judas instances the identification of a human soul with the devil himself. As is man capable to be one with Christ, it is true one can be one with Satan. "Then entered Satan into him." (John 13:27).

"I have not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil." (John 6:70).

These are the Scriptures I hope help in fact finding. There are Supernatural sicknesses of the body and soul in this present life, but the great news is Jesus Christ can deal with them all. Jesus talked about Satan, demons, and Angels, yet we don't see them. Are we therefore going to criticize Jesus Christ's statements? -- If so, time for me to go jogging....I'm not interested in doing that. :).
 
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