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Yeah, you're going to call Christian fireman and pray for rain while your house is on fire, right. And for you to imply that I'm weak in faith is a joke. I'm a warrior for Christ and I put my money where my mouth is regarding Jesus, and that includes the common sense He's given me. I used to think you knew what you were talking about but lately you're giving me pause.
honestly, the one who takes up the cause of the poor, the alien and the figurative 'samaritan', doesn't seek the praise of men and refuses to accept bribes is the one i think is closest to exhibiting 'christian values'
and he's Jewish by birth, not practicing. it's not a "claim"
Jewish former carpenter who cares for the poor, wants to drive out the bankers and freely provide healing & teaching to whosoever may come?
yes please.
don't tell me you've read the new testament, and this doesn't sound in the least bit familiar? lol
and he's Jewish by birth, not practicing. it's not a "claim"
Jewish former carpenter who cares for the poor, wants to drive out the bankers and freely provide healing & teaching to whosoever may come?
yes please.
don't tell me you've read the new testament, and this doesn't sound in the least bit familiar? lol
I understand the sentiment behind this thinking, but the problem is how this Scripture is applied. Jesus is not talking about the Government structure, but the individual, or Christian group of individuals.
Socialism cannot work. Yes it appears there will be some form of socialism when our Lord reigns, but even the early Church couldn't make it work. Just see how quickly it failed in Acts.
So many wondefful Christians get trapped and confused with trying to apply Scripture to a government action. It is understandable but wrong. It completely overlooks human nature, and secondary thought regarding the outcomes of legislation.
For instance welfare in all it's many forms that almost 1 in 3 recieve in America. In all the years I have posed this question I have never recieved an answer that really made sense. The question is, what is the incentive for someone to EVER come off of a welfare program? If someone is recieving "free" stuff, be it cell phones, housing, food, health care and on and on..EVEN IF they may initially need it, why would they EVER give up that free stuff? AND in order to give them free stuff you 1st have to take it from someone else. This is called theft.
Don't get me wrong, the wealthy, and the not so wealthy, have a personal obligation to help someone in need. And I hope especially Christians, will understand that. But that is between them and the Lord who blessed them with such resources, NOT a confiscatory Government.
Further, as this socialism slow motion train wreck proceeds, and more and more people get on that train realizing they can get something for nothing, or take other peoples money, explain why a productive, hard-working member of society would continue to be a hard-working productive member of society if they're hard work is stolen from them?
Bearing all this in mind, how on earth can anyone EVER consider voting democrat, and especially for an avowed socialist like Sanders?
Why would you want to hasten the economic destruction of America by doing so? Believe me, I get the GOP is no bargain either, but at least we have a little chance with them.
But those voting Dem, I'd truly like an answer to the question posed about INCENTIVE of people getting off welfare, and why more wouldn't join? I personally know MANY hard-working people who do not have the lifestyle of some of those who are on all these programs. How is THAT fair?
welfare is not a 'party issue' PennEd, the Social Security Act of 1935 was passed with a bipartisan vote in congress & upheld by the SCOTUS. every state has its own unemployment insurance programs - all of which are "socialist" welfare programs that act as automatic Keynesian stabilizers on the economy. over the years various laws and provisions have been voted on and enacted strengthening programs like these, by both parties.
if you consider things like this "socialist" then i think you have to come to terms with the fact that America is already a democratic socialist capitalist republic.
as far as "getting free stuff" from the government being theft -- first of all it isn't free. i don't know if you've ever received an unemployment check, but the amount of the check is based on your own salary history from the previous year, because it's paid for by taxes taken out of your own salary, which is consolidated with the money from all tax-paying citizens and used when it's needed, where it's needed.
i shouldn't have to patronize you saying this, but it seems like i have to do this to not just you: if you all welfare "theft" -- then what you are literally saying is that taxation is theft. this isn't a Christian attitude at all. Christ paid taxes. Paul teaches us in Romans that we should pay taxes and revenue to whomever taxes and revenue are due. the Mosaic tithe was a effectively a tax, and scripture says of those people who didn't pay it, that they were robbing God. so the "thieves" here is people who don't pay their taxes -- not the government, and not people in need who make use of what their own taxes in part pay for.
now, people who are taking welfare and don't need it - if they can work but simply refuse to, or they can't get by without assistance - yeah, i think if we got together and talked about that, i'd agree with you that that's thievery. but it's abuse of the system, not the social program itself that is the problem, and the fact that it may be abused is no reason at all to argue that it should not exist.
dude, how many people abuse God's grace? i've abused it. i bet you have too - every time we sin, we do that. would you argue that God should not show grace to us, since we abuse it? see, the argument that you gave here, is so similar to the argument we hear in the BDF -- if God saves you apart from works, why would you ever do any good deeds? why would you ever clean up your life, if He offers you salvation without making you do that first?
the answer to that question is the change that happens in your heart. and the answer to why people would stop taking welfare assistance is also something to do with their heart - so the problem you're describing, i think, is a heart problem, not a political problem -- and no president is going to change people's hearts.
i'm all for reforming welfare systems to weed out corruption, waste and abuse. Bernie Sanders is too. i am not for ditching them all - they prevent people from turning to crime, stabilize the economy, and they are humane and righteous things to do: that we should collectively take care of the poor and needy. i'm for expanding them too - to universal healthcare, and improving access to education, as we can afford to. i think there is plenty of revenue to be found if we close loopholes that let people actually "steal" from the government and from every other citizen in the country by cheating out of taxes, and if we clean up waste and abuse within the existing systems.
the strongest economies in the world are democratic socialist capitalist nations. it's completely false to say that democratic socialism is a certain road to economic ruin. democratic socialism is what got us out of the Great Depression. you'll say, Germany & Sweden & Japan etc. are small, this isn't scalable to America's size - but you're selling the nation short when you say that' there's no evidence, just anxiety. you're saying we're not "great" enough to make any of this work. well..
getting red in the face and stirring up vitriol against our neighbors does not make America great.
building walls and scapegoats and starting unnecessary wars does not make America great.
giving gifts to the rich and trampling the poor does not make America great.
these humane social benefit and universal access programs are the kind of thing that actually makes America great.
we are a great nation when we love our neighbors, not just in words, but in actions.
what makes America great is the opportunity here - that everyone has a chance to live a healthy, secure life, with a home and an education and a career. what Sanders campaign is about, is while the income gap has exponentially grown, and we keep dropping in ranking across the world with regard to healthcare & education, that we do something to make sure that dream remains a reality.
if you consider things like this "socialist" then i think you have to come to terms with the fact that America is already a democratic socialist capitalist republic.
as far as "getting free stuff" from the government being theft -- first of all it isn't free. i don't know if you've ever received an unemployment check, but the amount of the check is based on your own salary history from the previous year, because it's paid for by taxes taken out of your own salary, which is consolidated with the money from all tax-paying citizens and used when it's needed, where it's needed.
i shouldn't have to patronize you saying this, but it seems like i have to do this to not just you: if you all welfare "theft" -- then what you are literally saying is that taxation is theft. this isn't a Christian attitude at all. Christ paid taxes. Paul teaches us in Romans that we should pay taxes and revenue to whomever taxes and revenue are due. the Mosaic tithe was a effectively a tax, and scripture says of those people who didn't pay it, that they were robbing God. so the "thieves" here is people who don't pay their taxes -- not the government, and not people in need who make use of what their own taxes in part pay for.
now, people who are taking welfare and don't need it - if they can work but simply refuse to, or they can't get by without assistance - yeah, i think if we got together and talked about that, i'd agree with you that that's thievery. but it's abuse of the system, not the social program itself that is the problem, and the fact that it may be abused is no reason at all to argue that it should not exist.
dude, how many people abuse God's grace? i've abused it. i bet you have too - every time we sin, we do that. would you argue that God should not show grace to us, since we abuse it? see, the argument that you gave here, is so similar to the argument we hear in the BDF -- if God saves you apart from works, why would you ever do any good deeds? why would you ever clean up your life, if He offers you salvation without making you do that first?
the answer to that question is the change that happens in your heart. and the answer to why people would stop taking welfare assistance is also something to do with their heart - so the problem you're describing, i think, is a heart problem, not a political problem -- and no president is going to change people's hearts.
i'm all for reforming welfare systems to weed out corruption, waste and abuse. Bernie Sanders is too. i am not for ditching them all - they prevent people from turning to crime, stabilize the economy, and they are humane and righteous things to do: that we should collectively take care of the poor and needy. i'm for expanding them too - to universal healthcare, and improving access to education, as we can afford to. i think there is plenty of revenue to be found if we close loopholes that let people actually "steal" from the government and from every other citizen in the country by cheating out of taxes, and if we clean up waste and abuse within the existing systems.
the strongest economies in the world are democratic socialist capitalist nations. it's completely false to say that democratic socialism is a certain road to economic ruin. democratic socialism is what got us out of the Great Depression. you'll say, Germany & Sweden & Japan etc. are small, this isn't scalable to America's size - but you're selling the nation short when you say that' there's no evidence, just anxiety. you're saying we're not "great" enough to make any of this work. well..
getting red in the face and stirring up vitriol against our neighbors does not make America great.
building walls and scapegoats and starting unnecessary wars does not make America great.
giving gifts to the rich and trampling the poor does not make America great.
these humane social benefit and universal access programs are the kind of thing that actually makes America great.
we are a great nation when we love our neighbors, not just in words, but in actions.
what makes America great is the opportunity here - that everyone has a chance to live a healthy, secure life, with a home and an education and a career. what Sanders campaign is about, is while the income gap has exponentially grown, and we keep dropping in ranking across the world with regard to healthcare & education, that we do something to make sure that dream remains a reality.
Social security was never intended to be an entitlement program. People paid into to the system to provide income when they hit retirement. It was their money to begin with. When the government raided it to pay their precious welfare programs (borrowed from peter to pay paul) it suddenly and miraculously became an entitlement. This argument that social security is an entitlement or was intended to be one is a false one. The govt essentially stole from it to pay welfare to unproductive citizens and they have in effect bankrupted it....just like they have bankrupted everything else.
I have read enough of your posts to truly believe you love your fellow man and are seeking the Lord with ALL your heart, and I can say with no condescension at all that I love your heart and what you desire. And, as I said, I think alot of Christians think as you do and I truly love them. But I'm sorry, you couldn't be more wrong on this socialism issue.
WHY do you think people fled from every nation on earth to come to America? For Welfare? Why did so many come from Cuba in bathtubs and floating cardboard? For welfare or to flee fully implemented socialism? Or do you think they come here for freedom and NOT to make America into the socialists nightmares they fled from?
Now let's define welfare. Welfare is money, goods or services that one receives from a government source, that one didn't pay into.
So even though I AM against social security, the part that one gets after retirement, NOT the welfare part of SS, I HAVE PAID INTO THAT SYSTEM FOR 35+ yrs. I would have gladly opted out and NOT have the gov taken my money. The gov says with this program "you are too stupid to save for your retirement so we will forcibly take your income, take OUR share, then give it back to you little by little when you retire".
Once again you mix Scripture with secular objectives. I am responsible to the Lord for the resources He has blessed me with.
Of course I am for taxation, but taxation that is Constitutional. Just because the Supreme court rules on an issue doesn't mean that it is Constitutional. I know you will say it does.
But I refuse to recognize certain rulings that are crystal clear against the Constitution. At one time the Supreme court ruled that owning another human being was constitutional, and currently they have ruled that murdering a human being in the womb, and homosexual marriage and... well you get the point.
I believe the Constitution is clear that tax dollars for national defense or infrastructure or to prevent monopolies and few other uses.
But let's be perfectly clear.The vast majority on welfare today have NEVER PAID into the system. In fact, the bottom 50% pay less than 2% of federal taxes collected, and the HATED top 1% pay 37-40%, and the top 10% pay more than 70% of all federal taxes collected.
The American dream, the reason why everyone USE to come here, was the idea that you COULD come here with nothing and WORK your way to be economically successful. The more socialism is instituted, the harder and harder it becomes for ANY American or immigrant to realize that dream.
Finally, you never answered the question. We now have THIRD generation families, that are born into welfare, and know no other way of life. What is the incentive to have them reject their UNEARNED welfare, work hard every day, and become economically independent? If you took that welfare away, and they were forced to go out and get a job, yes it would be a menial job to start, just like everyone else, wouldn't that be a GREATER help to them?
WHY do you think people fled from every nation on earth to come to America? For Welfare? Why did so many come from Cuba in bathtubs and floating cardboard? For welfare or to flee fully implemented socialism? Or do you think they come here for freedom and NOT to make America into the socialists nightmares they fled from?
Now let's define welfare. Welfare is money, goods or services that one receives from a government source, that one didn't pay into.
So even though I AM against social security, the part that one gets after retirement, NOT the welfare part of SS, I HAVE PAID INTO THAT SYSTEM FOR 35+ yrs. I would have gladly opted out and NOT have the gov taken my money. The gov says with this program "you are too stupid to save for your retirement so we will forcibly take your income, take OUR share, then give it back to you little by little when you retire".
Once again you mix Scripture with secular objectives. I am responsible to the Lord for the resources He has blessed me with.
Of course I am for taxation, but taxation that is Constitutional. Just because the Supreme court rules on an issue doesn't mean that it is Constitutional. I know you will say it does.
But I refuse to recognize certain rulings that are crystal clear against the Constitution. At one time the Supreme court ruled that owning another human being was constitutional, and currently they have ruled that murdering a human being in the womb, and homosexual marriage and... well you get the point.
I believe the Constitution is clear that tax dollars for national defense or infrastructure or to prevent monopolies and few other uses.
But let's be perfectly clear.The vast majority on welfare today have NEVER PAID into the system. In fact, the bottom 50% pay less than 2% of federal taxes collected, and the HATED top 1% pay 37-40%, and the top 10% pay more than 70% of all federal taxes collected.
The American dream, the reason why everyone USE to come here, was the idea that you COULD come here with nothing and WORK your way to be economically successful. The more socialism is instituted, the harder and harder it becomes for ANY American or immigrant to realize that dream.
Finally, you never answered the question. We now have THIRD generation families, that are born into welfare, and know no other way of life. What is the incentive to have them reject their UNEARNED welfare, work hard every day, and become economically independent? If you took that welfare away, and they were forced to go out and get a job, yes it would be a menial job to start, just like everyone else, wouldn't that be a GREATER help to them?
K
Now let's define welfare. Welfare is money, goods or services that one receives from a government source, that one didn't pay into.
So even though I AM against social security, the part that one gets after retirement, NOT the welfare part of SS, I HAVE PAID INTO THAT SYSTEM FOR 35+ yrs. I would have gladly opted out and NOT have the gov taken my money. The gov says with this program "you are too stupid to save for your retirement so we will forcibly take your income, take OUR share, then give it back to you little by little when you retire".
Once again you mix Scripture with secular objectives. I am responsible to the Lord for the resources He has blessed me with.
Of course I am for taxation, but taxation that is Constitutional. Just because the Supreme court rules on an issue doesn't mean that it is Constitutional. I know you will say it does.
But I refuse to recognize certain rulings that are crystal clear against the Constitution. At one time the Supreme court ruled that owning another human being was constitutional, and currently they have ruled that murdering a human being in the womb, and homosexual marriage and... well you get the point.
I believe the Constitution is clear that tax dollars for national defense or infrastructure or to prevent monopolies and few other uses.
But let's be perfectly clear.The vast majority on welfare today have NEVER PAID into the system. In fact, the bottom 50% pay less than 2% of federal taxes collected, and the HATED top 1% pay 37-40%, and the top 10% pay more than 70% of all federal taxes collected.
***Incorrect. Welfare is NOT defined as $,etc given to people who do not pay into it. A total of 56% of SNAP recipient are children and elderly Only 44% are working-class.
USDA Blog
So even though I AM against social security, the part that one gets after retirement, NOT the welfare part of SS, I HAVE PAID INTO THAT SYSTEM FOR 35+ yrs. I would have gladly opted out and NOT have the gov taken my money. The gov says with this program "you are too stupid to save for your retirement so we will forcibly take your income, take OUR share, then give it back to you little by little when you retire".
Once again you mix Scripture with secular objectives. I am responsible to the Lord for the resources He has blessed me with.
Of course I am for taxation, but taxation that is Constitutional. Just because the Supreme court rules on an issue doesn't mean that it is Constitutional. I know you will say it does.
But I refuse to recognize certain rulings that are crystal clear against the Constitution. At one time the Supreme court ruled that owning another human being was constitutional, and currently they have ruled that murdering a human being in the womb, and homosexual marriage and... well you get the point.
I believe the Constitution is clear that tax dollars for national defense or infrastructure or to prevent monopolies and few other uses.
But let's be perfectly clear.The vast majority on welfare today have NEVER PAID into the system. In fact, the bottom 50% pay less than 2% of federal taxes collected, and the HATED top 1% pay 37-40%, and the top 10% pay more than 70% of all federal taxes collected.
***Incorrect. Welfare is NOT defined as $,etc given to people who do not pay into it. A total of 56% of SNAP recipient are children and elderly Only 44% are working-class.
USDA Blog
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(your original comment)
NOW THIS ONE
You are the one who created the two options, not me...........sigh....... And they really were silly to begin with, as I have never seen a City/County/State that had:
HOUSE ON FIRE?
We now offer the following options:
1) Call a non-Christian Fire Dept with plenty of water
2) Call a Christian Fire Dept that doesn't have water
See, that's simply a silly proposition to begin with.
As for being weak of faith...........my comment was directed towards this comment of yours:
America is on fire; I don't care about the faith of the person who can extinguish the fire.
I put my faith in Christ............and, yes, I use the common sense He gave me, as well as the various talents, abilities He gave me.............and I DO CARE about the faith of those Leaders we elect to Govern our Nation. When "faith" no longer counts in the decisions we make.........in my opinion, God no longer counts. If that gives you pause, then I have to wonder how it is that all of the JUNK Trump has spewed out DOESN'T?
Anyway....................
NOW THIS ONE
You are the one who created the two options, not me...........sigh....... And they really were silly to begin with, as I have never seen a City/County/State that had:
HOUSE ON FIRE?
We now offer the following options:
1) Call a non-Christian Fire Dept with plenty of water
2) Call a Christian Fire Dept that doesn't have water
See, that's simply a silly proposition to begin with.
As for being weak of faith...........my comment was directed towards this comment of yours:
America is on fire; I don't care about the faith of the person who can extinguish the fire.
I put my faith in Christ............and, yes, I use the common sense He gave me, as well as the various talents, abilities He gave me.............and I DO CARE about the faith of those Leaders we elect to Govern our Nation. When "faith" no longer counts in the decisions we make.........in my opinion, God no longer counts. If that gives you pause, then I have to wonder how it is that all of the JUNK Trump has spewed out DOESN'T?
Anyway....................
And how's all that faith of our political leaders working out for ya? Not too good, I know. They're treasonous fascists that don't give a crap about you. Not only that, they hold you hostage with your faith. You're a slave to them and you don't even know it. I stand by my words; my faith in Christ is rock solid, so much so that I don't use someone's faith as a litmus test when I know they love this country and have its best intentions at heart.
I don't know about anyone else but I am pretty tired of people and their thinking that if someone is a christ follower they are completely pure and if someone is not they are completely corrupt. Personally, I like Trump more than I like Cruz. I believe that one of them is being used and my hunch tells me that it isn't Trump. When it comes down to it, I know that I wont vote for Hillary or Sanders. They are both nanny statists. I don't need a nanny and I don't want a nanny. I don't want someone telling me what I can teach, feed or do with my kid. I want Washington to provide an army for national defense and to secure the border from foreign invaders. I want someone who will hold people like me in high esteem, who work hard, pay their taxes and who are raising their children to contribute something to society. I've had enough of this victim culture and the fostering of it by a politicians who capitalize on it to maintain control. This country is coming apart at the seams and soon, if things don't change, it'll be every man for himself. A country cannot stand when it is overrun by the takers.