lets have some Bible study shall we?

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Nov 22, 2015
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1 John 4:17-19 (NASB)

[SUP]17 [/SUP] By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because as He is, so also are we in this world.

[SUP]18 [/SUP] There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.

[SUP]19 [/SUP] We love, because He first loved us.
 
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roaringkitten

Guest
The plan of salvation was already in mind before the world began! Even the results of what salvation means for us was forseen!

1)our provision forseen:
"Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen." Rom 16:25-27

2)The free gift forseen:

"
In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began" Titus 1:2

3)Our calling forseen:
"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love" Eph 1:4
 
Apr 6, 2016
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Hi!! I am fifteen years old and I live in the USA. Lately, I have had a lot of questions about religion. I consider myself a Christian, my parents were both raised Christian and so was I. I am the type of person who overthinks everything way too much and gets super stressed out over a lack of knowledge. I have been having moments when I think about death, and what happens after I die. I get extremely nervous and upset because I have so much fear about something so significant yet uncertain. I have a few questions I'd like some insight on, so if you wouldn't mind, I'd really appreciate advice and answers. Please do not let me uncertainty offend you. I believe in God, but I just get extremely confused at times and I have a lot of questions. Please answer them if you have the time. Thank you, and have a good night.

1. What happens when you die?

2. In Heaven, do you maintain your some body as in real life?

3. Is Heaven a real place, or just a spiritual resting place?

4. Do you recognize your family members in Heaven? Are you allowed to communicate with them? (this one worries me the most)

5. Any advice for looking at death with not such a negative outlook?

Thank you!!!!
 
Feb 24, 2015
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"The Lamb slain before the foundation of the world" an absurd idea???????
sounds like all sin was "future sin" in GOD'S eyes
He has no past or future He is I AM
This does not make sense. If God does an action, it is an action that has a past, ie before the action took place and an after, after the action took place.

By your logic Christs death on the cross never had a before, because it was eternally present. On this basis sin has always been dealt with even before the creation of the world, so therefore the whole justice system of the old testament is irrelevant and should not have taken place.

Fundamentally you have made a mistake. Sin never has been the problem between man and God, it is all about trust, communion. We shut love out of our hearts, closed it down, believe we are betrayed and need to be defensive and agressive towards others. Out of this hard heart comes all the selfish carnal indulgences which come to rule our lives.

The cross is the ultimate statement of "I love you" "I forgive you" "Will you follow me"
Atonement happens in our hearts because sin and separation have made us lost, empty, without hope or direction, all flawed and without life all this is neutralised. When Jesus comes to us, and we see Him as He really is, he heals those wounds, bounds up our denial and sense of betrayal and lostness and brings us life. It is this life that is new birth, born of the Spirit of God, that redeems and sanctifies our souls, hearts, all we are.

Do you see this is what the Lord has done for us? Through repentance and faith we are made new, the inheritence of Christ and His work on the cross. Though the love in Gods heart as always been there, Jesus displays it most completely and the terms by which we can enter into heaven are clearly declared to all.
 
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roaringkitten

Guest
This does not make sense. If God does an action, it is an action that has a past, ie before the action took place and an after, after the action took place.

By your logic Christs death on the cross never had a before, because it was eternally present. On this basis sin has always been dealt with even before the creation of the world, so therefore the whole justice system of the old testament is irrelevant and should not have taken place.

Fundamentally you have made a mistake. Sin never has been the problem between man and God, it is all about trust, communion. We shut love out of our hearts, closed it down, believe we are betrayed and need to be defensive and agressive towards others. Out of this hard heart comes all the selfish carnal indulgences which come to rule our lives.

The cross is the ultimate statement of "I love you" "I forgive you" "Will you follow me"
Atonement happens in our hearts because sin and separation have made us lost, empty, without hope or direction, all flawed and without life all this is neutralised. When Jesus comes to us, and we see Him as He really is, he heals those wounds, bounds up our denial and sense of betrayal and lostness and brings us life. It is this life that is new birth, born of the Spirit of God, that redeems and sanctifies our souls, hearts, all we are.

Do you see this is what the Lord has done for us? Through repentance and faith we are made new, the inheritence of Christ and His work on the cross. Though the love in Gods heart as always been there, Jesus displays it most completely and the terms by which we can enter into heaven are clearly declared to all.
"And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world." Rev 13:8

Did Jesus pay for all your sins on the cross? Because they were all future 2000 years ago when he bore our sins on the cross!
 
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thepsalmist

Guest
"The Lamb slain before the foundation of the world" an absurd idea???????

sounds like all sin was "future sin" in GOD'S eyes

He has no past or future He is I AM
Ahhhh ...Yes! I hear what you're saying! :)

Thank you - this is awesome! :)

It hadn't sunk in yesterday ... but it did today! :)
 
Feb 24, 2015
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We must also keep in mind how the blood sacrifice gives us motivation to live for Him!
"the blood sacrifice gives us motivation"
This language is unusual. I can read in things how such a phrase would mean to me, but I am now reluctant to do this, because I realise what people are reading in is very different from myself.

So how does Christs blood sacrifice motivate us? roaringkitten has a view on the blood that I am not sure I understand.
For me the blood is Jesus's life.
 
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roaringkitten

Guest
"the blood sacrifice gives us motivation"
This language is unusual. I can read in things how such a phrase would mean to me, but I am now reluctant to do this, because I realise what people are reading in is very different from myself.

So how does Christs blood sacrifice motivate us? roaringkitten has a view on the blood that I am not sure I understand.
For me the blood is Jesus's life.
"How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?" Heb 9:14
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Are we called to be perfect? Yes. We are perfect in Gods way if we follow Jesus, and keep His commands. So I am perfect in Jesus's definition of the word.

No human will ever be perfect in EG's definition even in heaven, because this definition is mans way of talking about what is perfection. And this is the point. Walking in love and righteousness is not be righteous conscious, but to be conscious of need and respond to it. You will only know when sin crops up, and you deal with it. Love is the key in your heart, miss this you miss God.

I am grateful Jesus loves me, and accepts me and teaches me to follow the sermon on the mount. I have built my house upon a rock. But for some reason people here, say Jesus is lying, and I am building my house on legalism and hypocracy. If hypocracy is walking in righteousness, then the speaker is not following Jesus. The proof of where you are is do your words contradict Jesus? If you do, then you need to change or you will be disowned. Jesus gives people enough warning about this. It is not about earning salvation, as walking in it and not delusion and easy believism.

Now I respect grace7x77 for his preaching style and structure of argument, which shows he is a well trained preacher. It does not make him right, because everything is slightly changed so the gospel becomes something else. Love is not at the core. Acceptance of sinful behaviour is, because this is no longer an issue, because it is forgiven already. But show 1 verse which says sin is ok, anywhere where the Lord is concerned. Holiness is the key, but surface righteousness from another is meaningless. If Jesus has not cleansed you and transformed you, your hope is in vain.

We are a purchased holy people, not fake has beens, who never wore clean clothes to the wedding feast.

1. EG's defenition of perfection is Gods. Its called the law. And to add. Every command God ever gave, whether in the law or not. It is sinless perfection. If you have one sin, no matter how small that sin is, You have failed to meet Gods requirement. James said if we break the least of the law. We are found guilty of the whole law.

EG's definition is different than Peters definition Because EG says even one sin makes us guilty, no matter how seemingly small or insignificant that sin it, It makes God puke. And would separate us from Gods presence if not for Gods Grace. Where as Peter, in his belief, Must think some sin is ok, As long as we do not do these what he must deem as severe sins, We are ok.. And we must preach against sinners, Like EG and Grace777 and all others who hold to the grace of God..

2. A hypocrite is one who yells at sinners, when he Denies or softens his own sin, and rejects that his sin is just as black as everyone else's sin, and apart from God would permanently separate him from God. As long as he is trying to live righteous, Trying to do Gods will. Loving God. and doing these religious acts. His sin is ok. Unless he falls away.

once again, Peter loves to lie about others. We do not call people who love to walk and obey Gods commands legalistic, We would be calling ourselves legalistic, We call people who claim eternal life is based on obedience legalistic. Pharisees who judge sinners, while refusing to see their own sin.


3. He lies again Grace777, Grace's teaching are based on love, Anyone who reads his postings with an open mind understands this, so is not even worth discussing, out right bearing false witness against others..

4. He preaches he is purchased holy people. but he denies it, If we are purchased, then we belong to the one who purchased us, And that person would never let us go. no matter what. So, no, peter does not believe we are purchased, And his version of what is Holy is false, because it is weak and not perfect in Gods standard. But can sin and be ok.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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"And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world." Rev 13:8
Did Jesus pay for all your sins on the cross? Because they were all future 2000 years ago when he bore our sins on the cross!
Interpretation. You could say the sentence the reference for the foundation of the world is on the Lamb slain but this cannot be true. The lamb was slain in Jerusalem, by the romans.

What is written since the foundation of the world is the book of life of the Lamb.

If you interpret this to mean the lamb was slain before the beginning of the world, then the sacrifice was already made etc. which is not meaningful. Now I agree the love God possesses is expressed in the sacrifice, and it was as real before the beginning of creation as it is today, but not the actual physical reality that took place in history and on earth.

As I said before this does not make sense, even if the words can be interpreted that way, that was not the intention. To John to say the lamb was slain before he was slain takes away the whole song of being worthy to open the seals, through being found worthy because he humbled himself to be slain by man.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
"Sin is forgiven on the cross. Period"

You have to step back and understand what is being said here.
This idea comes from the idea sinful behaviour is the problem between man and God. So Jesus removed this problem, so though we are sinners we can how talk to the Father.

The hypocracy is the sinful behaviour is still present, it is just ignored. But this is what the pharisees thought about themselves, acceptable to God being children of Israel while continuing in hypocracy without cleansing their hearts.

The real problem between us and God is we blame Him for things being the way they are, and we can fix it on our own, stuff Him. Sin is the disease that springs from this failure, not the cause. Until we see love in our hearts at work, and start to come alive to Christ and life, really care for ourselves and others, it is just religion and words.

This is why so many talk such junk, because love has not been set alight within, it is just some religious formula, a way of changing the words to fit the latest version of faith they have invented. It is also why the apostles did not quite understand the disciples around them who flew off in different directions, because without love and the well spring of the Spirit refeshing you, the latest ideas will always appear more inviting.

Sin matters because it is the opposite of love, it kills relationships and our walk with the Lord.

ok, The dead horse just jumped. Not sure if it is because you hit a dead nerve and it cause a reaction, or because you hit it hard enough that it bounced.

Please show anyone who is claiming it is ok to sin, Just one person.

And not your strawman about how grace teaches us to sin, and not rely on God.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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I accept your apology, Peter, thank you.
I personally take sin very seriously ... when I do something I know is wrong I feel terrible about it ... I acknowledge it to God, I ask Him to help me to not do it again...and I take pains to be careful about it in future.
That said, my life has been made new since I have been reborn. I would never live a licentious life - in part from love for my Father, in part from fear of disappointing my Father. And I think anyone truly in Christ would agree with me on that.
I don't believe that if I slip up and commit an errant sin that I will lose my salvation for it though ... The Lord knows I will slip up from time to time ... and He also would not have adopted me if He thought I would use grace as a licence to sin.
I have been made holy inwardly and He is making my outward person more holy as I walk with Him.
I have to say something to you, to encourage you I hope. The Lord disturbed my spirit about how you took what I had said, before I read your words. Being honest and open is the Lords way, and you have a precious walk with Him.

Now in this strange world of ideas and fellowship, the Lord is unbelievably gracious, because we so easily go off on tangents. All I can do is be true to my walk and how He has led me.

Now I have never held slips cause a break in salvation, but I do know faith and trust are key to our lives in Him. All we can do is be true to the light in our hearts and bless those who he gives us a way to bring light to as well. So bless you in your walk, and may you find a closer walk with Him every day.
 
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roaringkitten

Guest
Interpretation. You could say the sentence the reference for the foundation of the world is on the Lamb slain but this cannot be true. The lamb was slain in Jerusalem, by the romans.

What is written since the foundation of the world is the book of life of the Lamb.

If you interpret this to mean the lamb was slain before the beginning of the world, then the sacrifice was already made etc. which is not meaningful. Now I agree the love God possesses is expressed in the sacrifice, and it was as real before the beginning of creation as it is today, but not the actual physical reality that took place in history and on earth.

As I said before this does not make sense, even if the words can be interpreted that way, that was not the intention. To John to say the lamb was slain before he was slain takes away the whole song of being worthy to open the seals, through being found worthy because he humbled himself to be slain by man.

I was trying to show that the event of Christ's blood sacrifice was forseen. The bigger issue at hand is people who say they can become unsaved after becoming a Christian. When Jesus died, all your sins were future, so did Jesus pay for all your sins or not?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Ofcourse you are right. No one is saying being licentious is ok, just sinning does not matter, because you are forgiven as you sin. Do you not hear the hypocracy in your words.
So this says sinning does not matter? Thats JUNK!!

That sin you claim does not matter, put the Lord on the cross. I would say that mattered quite alot!

Now. maybe you think your sin is so insignificant, It did not put Christ on the cross.. To me, THATS JUNK!


Or take speeding. If someone says "I agree that you should not speed, ever, but if you do, it is ok, because you will never be held accountable for speeding."

Yet no one in this room would ever say such a thing. Stop listining to men who teach you this crap. And start listening to the people your judging. Do you read anything we said about sin a few pages ago?


That is hypocracy. It is also lying. Either speeding does not matter, or if you accidently speed, you say sorry and intend not to do it again. But halfway is neither hot nor cold, it is lukewarm.
This is crazy, Accidental sin? Why do you not be a man and take accountability for your own sin. Stop excusing it just because you accidentally committed an oopsie, And do some religious ceremony of penance. That means nothing to God. God wants you to be a man or a woman and live up to your mistake. God, I did it, I have no excuse, I knew the speed limit was 55 and I went 60. No excuse God. I am guilty!! Please forgive me, and help me learn to do better next time.

That is what we should do. Not excuse our sin..



And everyone should know what Gods thoughts are on being lukewarm.

You do not understand his thoughts on sin, how can you understand his thought on being lukewarm.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
What I AM saying is that you seem to not be hearing what others are really saying ...
Sadly he has had so many people try to tell him this,, Everyone time someone does, He calls us banding together against him. He is so close to truth, it is there for him to grasp. But he keeps pushing it and God away, and it just saddens you to no end.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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This does not make sense. If God does an action, it is an action that has a past, ie before the action took place and an after, after the action took place.

By your logic Christs death on the cross never had a before, because it was eternally present. On this basis sin has always been dealt with even before the creation of the world, so therefore the whole justice system of the old testament is irrelevant and should not have taken place.
No it doesn't make sense because that's not what that verse says. It says that our names were written in the slain lamb's book of life before the foundation of the world., not that he was slain before the foundation of the world, which is ridiculous
 
Feb 24, 2015
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1. EG's defenition of perfection is Gods. Its called the law. And to add. Every command God ever gave, whether in the law or not. It is sinless perfection. If you have one sin, no matter how small that sin is, You have failed to meet Gods requirement. James said if we break the least of the law. We are found guilty of the whole law.

EG's definition is different than Peters definition Because EG says even one sin makes us guilty, no matter how seemingly small or insignificant that sin it, It makes God puke. And would separate us from Gods presence if not for Gods Grace. Where as Peter, in his belief, Must think some sin is ok, As long as we do not do these what he must deem as severe sins, We are ok.. And we must preach against sinners, Like EG and Grace777 and all others who hold to the grace of God..

2. A hypocrite is one who yells at sinners, when he Denies or softens his own sin, and rejects that his sin is just as black as everyone else's sin, and apart from God would permanently separate him from God. As long as he is trying to live righteous, Trying to do Gods will. Loving God. and doing these religious acts. His sin is ok. Unless he falls away.

once again, Peter loves to lie about others. We do not call people who love to walk and obey Gods commands legalistic, We would be calling ourselves legalistic, We call people who claim eternal life is based on obedience legalistic. Pharisees who judge sinners, while refusing to see their own sin.


3. He lies again Grace777, Grace's teaching are based on love, Anyone who reads his postings with an open mind understands this, so is not even worth discussing, out right bearing false witness against others..

4. He preaches he is purchased holy people. but he denies it, If we are purchased, then we belong to the one who purchased us, And that person would never let us go. no matter what. So, no, peter does not believe we are purchased, And his version of what is Holy is false, because it is weak and not perfect in Gods standard. But can sin and be ok.
EG thankyou for your contribution. I do not understand how you draw your conclusions, calling me a liar, slanderer, hypocrite, legalist, denier of my own sin, devaluing Gods word and His standards, my faith is false, and say I am saying sin is ok and claim righteousness.

This is a pretty total writing off of another believer. You have continually done this to me.

My points are simple. Walking in righteousness is possible through Christ. You obviously reject this, or else you would not respond as you do.

EG my one point to you is simple. I know what stirs my heart, how Jesus touched me, and how I have life in His Spirit.
I am concerned for who you are, because none of the things I share touch you, it is like talking to someone with a heart of stone. And it is there we must part, after months of presentation, you have your view and I mine. If what you wrote upset me or spoke to me I would tell you, but as it has no weight, I wonder what you are defending so strongly and why you need to create such a vicious destruction of another. Does it not worry you, how a simple issue about walking in righteousness, giving Glory to God ends up like you have described?

And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.
Isaiah 6:3

And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.
Rev 4:8

You say I am a hypocrite, a sinner, slanderer etc. yet I have no conviction on my conscience or before the Lord.
If you have no foundation as to your accusation, you are a false accuser, a worker of iniquity, a follower not of Christ.
 
T

thepsalmist

Guest
I have to say something to you, to encourage you I hope. The Lord disturbed my spirit about how you took what I had said, before I read your words. Being honest and open is the Lords way, and you have a precious walk with Him.

Now in this strange world of ideas and fellowship, the Lord is unbelievably gracious, because we so easily go off on tangents. All I can do is be true to my walk and how He has led me.

Now I have never held slips cause a break in salvation, but I do know faith and trust are key to our lives in Him. All we can do is be true to the light in our hearts and bless those who he gives us a way to bring light to as well. So bless you in your walk, and may you find a closer walk with Him every day.
Thank you for the refreshing post Peter. :)

I realize that I also owe you an apology ...
I sincerely thought you were of the school that claims salvation can only be maintained by good works.

There may be one or two who sin licentiously and think there is no problem with that ... but I do think most people here - almost all - have respect for God and try their best to keep from sinning. Some say they feel God does it for them, some say they put some effort into it ... but either way ... most seem to shun sin and reach for righteousness in Christ.

"All I can do is be true to my walk and how He has led me." -PJ

I agree and feel the same way. And God is working in us each day to improve our walk with Him. Let us be grateful for that and try to walk in peace with others as we learn, and they learn.

Thank you and may God bless you in your walk with Him as well. :)

Peace n Love~
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I couldn't agree with you more. I have found victory over it as the word of God tells me I can.
Maybe I've got you confused here. Aren't you in the camp of those that say it is impossible to stop sinning?
So you never 24/7 put self over anyone? lets Be honest here.

You never chose to serve self in any way, ever?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I get tired of these discussions. In the thread someone has clearly declared that sin does not matter as a christian.
We get tired of these discussion also.

So please. Show us where someone clearly said sin does not matter, and we can continue to live in sin.