People, please make an attempt to remain on the subject of the OP.........nothing I have posted has anything remotely to do with bing under the law. If being obedient bothers you, perhaps you know more than our Father knows. No, I know better. Learn from Jesus Christ, and not by the general concensus of the majority. This majority thing was going on when our Savior first came, to save all who believe Him......
Take The Ten Commandments
- Thread starter JaumeJ
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Job 28:12
But where shall wisdom be found? and where is the place of understanding?
Proverbs 4:7
Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom:
and with all thy getting get understanding.
Proverbs 4:5
Get wisdom, get understanding: forget it not;
neither decline from the words of my mouth.
Proverbs 16:16
How much better is it to get wisdom than gold!
and to get understanding rather to be chosen than silver!
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Proverbs 15:33
The fear of the Lord is the instruction of wisdom;
and before honour is humility.
Proverbs 9:10
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom:
and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.
Job 28:28
And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the Lord,
that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding.
Psalms 111:10
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: [a good understanding]
have [all they] that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.
Proverbs 6:23
For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light;
and reproofs of instruction are the way of life:
Proverbs 8:13
The fear of the Lord is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way,
and the froward mouth, do I hate.
Isaiah 33:6
And wisdom and knowledge shall be the stability of thy times,
and strength of salvation: the fear of the Lord is his treasure.
By mercy and truth iniquity is purged:
and by the fear of the Lord men depart from evil.
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2 Chronicles 19:7
Wherefore now let the fear of the Lord be upon you; take heed and do it:
for there is no iniquity with the Lord our God, nor respect of persons, nor taking of gifts.
Proverbs 2:5
Then shalt thou understand the fear of the Lord,
and find the knowledge of God.
Psalms 25:14
The secret of the Lord is with them that fear him;
and he will shew them his covenant.
Proverbs 1:7
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge:
but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
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Hosea 3:5
Afterward shall the children of Israel return, and seek the Lord their God,
and David their king; and shall fear the Lord and his goodness in [the latter days].
Psalms 34:9
O fear the Lord, ye his saints: for there is no want to them that fear him.
Let all the earth fear the Lord: let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of him.
Behold, the eye of the Lord is upon them that fear him, upon them that hope in his mercy;
Like as a father pitieth his children, so the Lord pitieth them that fear him.
The Lord taketh pleasure in them that fear him, in those that hope in his mercy.
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I must have misunderstood your suggestion about reversing the commandments.... I was thinking "Thou SHALT murder" ?
It starts to make a little more sense the way Lynn posted it..
I agree, there is value in knowing what the Law said, because you can see how living a life of loving devotion to God, through Jesus causes you to AUTOMATICALLY follow the commandments... if you love your neighbor as much as you do yourself, you won't be murdering, coveting, bearing false witness, etc....
All of the "keeping of the Law" is covered in those two commandments of Jesus...
interesting way of looking at it, JaumeJ
It starts to make a little more sense the way Lynn posted it..
I agree, there is value in knowing what the Law said, because you can see how living a life of loving devotion to God, through Jesus causes you to AUTOMATICALLY follow the commandments... if you love your neighbor as much as you do yourself, you won't be murdering, coveting, bearing false witness, etc....
All of the "keeping of the Law" is covered in those two commandments of Jesus...
interesting way of looking at it, JaumeJ
The OP is intended to focus all on the wisdom of the law as taught by Jesus Christ.
Jesus is our Example. There are about 611 laws that many consider as the law, however so many of those laws Jesus did not, nor could He follow for they deal with the priesthood, the Temple and many other subjects that simply could nto be adhered to, yet He did not break any of the laws.
The only way for any who claim to believe Him to understand this is to learn what He teaches concerning the law, but as long as many of the grace and grace only people insist they understand that all of those laws must be observed, they have made themselves above lawyers or even the Author of the laws.
Oft times these same teachers of what the law is and how it should be obeyed will make ready reference to any of the laws when it suits them, such as an eye for an eye, and many other favorites that they consider unpardonable sins.
We all are sinners, and anyone who has broken the least of the laws has broken all of the laws, yet I see so many posting on specific sins as though they are not guilty of having broke n the law, all of the law.
This is a very dangerous attitude to have because it will give cause for them to be judged with the same severity they judge others.
The law says to stone an adultere, yet Jesus defended teh woman caught in the very act with more than enough witness to satisfy the requirements of the law. Did Jesus break the law here? Does this mean He was not perfect?
I think not because I understand when He taught the hypocrites that they overlook the three most important points of the la, they being mercy, justice, and faith.
I have faith that I may forgive and show mercy always, yet I am not breaking th elaw, I am ding as Jesus did, and learning from Him, not from a bunch of mercy only lawyers who lat down the law for all others without knowing the first thing about the law.
We are to love our brothers and our enemies. This is not o hard to do when we realize justhow great our Father is, and why vengeance beongs only to him. I came to understand why many decades ago. The understanding of God's vengeance is many faceted, but Ihave come to know two of the facets, the first being we creatures of the Most High God are simply too ignorant to know what veangeance truly is though the more crude think in terms of getting even. Another facet of revenge is quite simply separation from the offender, but God prefers mercy tosacrifice, and forgiveness to condemnation.
Our Father is good always, and He never lies about how we should conduct ourelves as His children, though He will never exact perfection out of any one of us, for He sees Jesus Christ in us.
Let others talk about those who wish to be obedient children as though they are legalists, while those others live their perfect lives becoming natural at obeying all commandments. Myself, I rely on the mercy of Jesus Christ always, for though I am a child of obedience I now as long as I am in this frail tabernacle I am not perfect. That perfection will come n the day our Father finishes the work He began in each of us, on His glorious Day, come sweet Jesus, come soon, amen.
Jesus is our Example. There are about 611 laws that many consider as the law, however so many of those laws Jesus did not, nor could He follow for they deal with the priesthood, the Temple and many other subjects that simply could nto be adhered to, yet He did not break any of the laws.
The only way for any who claim to believe Him to understand this is to learn what He teaches concerning the law, but as long as many of the grace and grace only people insist they understand that all of those laws must be observed, they have made themselves above lawyers or even the Author of the laws.
Oft times these same teachers of what the law is and how it should be obeyed will make ready reference to any of the laws when it suits them, such as an eye for an eye, and many other favorites that they consider unpardonable sins.
We all are sinners, and anyone who has broken the least of the laws has broken all of the laws, yet I see so many posting on specific sins as though they are not guilty of having broke n the law, all of the law.
This is a very dangerous attitude to have because it will give cause for them to be judged with the same severity they judge others.
The law says to stone an adultere, yet Jesus defended teh woman caught in the very act with more than enough witness to satisfy the requirements of the law. Did Jesus break the law here? Does this mean He was not perfect?
I think not because I understand when He taught the hypocrites that they overlook the three most important points of the la, they being mercy, justice, and faith.
I have faith that I may forgive and show mercy always, yet I am not breaking th elaw, I am ding as Jesus did, and learning from Him, not from a bunch of mercy only lawyers who lat down the law for all others without knowing the first thing about the law.
We are to love our brothers and our enemies. This is not o hard to do when we realize justhow great our Father is, and why vengeance beongs only to him. I came to understand why many decades ago. The understanding of God's vengeance is many faceted, but Ihave come to know two of the facets, the first being we creatures of the Most High God are simply too ignorant to know what veangeance truly is though the more crude think in terms of getting even. Another facet of revenge is quite simply separation from the offender, but God prefers mercy tosacrifice, and forgiveness to condemnation.
Our Father is good always, and He never lies about how we should conduct ourelves as His children, though He will never exact perfection out of any one of us, for He sees Jesus Christ in us.
Let others talk about those who wish to be obedient children as though they are legalists, while those others live their perfect lives becoming natural at obeying all commandments. Myself, I rely on the mercy of Jesus Christ always, for though I am a child of obedience I now as long as I am in this frail tabernacle I am not perfect. That perfection will come n the day our Father finishes the work He began in each of us, on His glorious Day, come sweet Jesus, come soon, amen.
God's moral laws,laws of love,never pass away,and must be obeyed,which the Bible says love works no ill towards their neighbor;therefore love is the fulfilling of the law,which the ten commandments,are laws of love,so they have to be obeyed,which is absurd for anyone to think they do not have to follow the ten commandments,when they say they follow God.
But the physical ordinances Jesus took out of the way,nailing them to His cross,because they were contrary to us,in that they did not benefit us to have a spiritual relationship with God,therefore let no man judge you in meats,in drinks,in respect of a holy day,or of the new moons,or of the sabbath days,which they cannot tell you to keep them,which were a shadow of things to come,but the body is of Christ.
In the Old Testament,they did not have the power to keep the moral laws,laws of love,perfectly,and could not have a spiritual relationship with God,for the lack of not being able to keep the moral laws perfectly,so God had them do physical ordinances to keep them right with Him,before Jesus came,which by Jesus we can have the Spirit,and have the power to do the moral laws of God perfectly,so the physical ordinances do us no good in the New Testament.
Also in the Old Testament,God said that when they receive the Spirit,that will be the refreshing,and the rest,but they would not hear,which when you accept Christ,and receive His Spirit,then you are keeping the sabbath,and it is a spiritual rest now.
But the physical ordinances Jesus took out of the way,nailing them to His cross,because they were contrary to us,in that they did not benefit us to have a spiritual relationship with God,therefore let no man judge you in meats,in drinks,in respect of a holy day,or of the new moons,or of the sabbath days,which they cannot tell you to keep them,which were a shadow of things to come,but the body is of Christ.
In the Old Testament,they did not have the power to keep the moral laws,laws of love,perfectly,and could not have a spiritual relationship with God,for the lack of not being able to keep the moral laws perfectly,so God had them do physical ordinances to keep them right with Him,before Jesus came,which by Jesus we can have the Spirit,and have the power to do the moral laws of God perfectly,so the physical ordinances do us no good in the New Testament.
Also in the Old Testament,God said that when they receive the Spirit,that will be the refreshing,and the rest,but they would not hear,which when you accept Christ,and receive His Spirit,then you are keeping the sabbath,and it is a spiritual rest now.
The ten commandments were filled In truth By GOD In CHRIST.
Remember paul wrote he delighted In the law of GOD after the Inward man but he saw another law In his members warring against the law of his mind and bringing him Into captivity to the law of sin which Is In members.
the problem Is some just can't seem to wrap their understanding around "first make the Inside of the cup clean" and only GOD can do this.GRACE through Faith.
The Spirit gives life,the flesh does not give life.
GOD Is a Spirit and must be worshiped In spirit and TRUTH.
After beginning In the spirit are you now trying to be made perfect by the flesh.
Remember paul wrote he delighted In the law of GOD after the Inward man but he saw another law In his members warring against the law of his mind and bringing him Into captivity to the law of sin which Is In members.
the problem Is some just can't seem to wrap their understanding around "first make the Inside of the cup clean" and only GOD can do this.GRACE through Faith.
The Spirit gives life,the flesh does not give life.
GOD Is a Spirit and must be worshiped In spirit and TRUTH.
After beginning In the spirit are you now trying to be made perfect by the flesh.
Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God. For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death. But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.
(Rom 7:4-6)
(Rom 7:4-6)
God's wisdom shines from the law in our inward parts, otherwise we would not attract others to Him, for He is love and His teaching is from Love..........one may continue this chain of truth to the laws that do not change with the in-filling of the Holy Spirit......the two great laws of love and all the laws tha hang on them.
Those laws that hang on the laws of love are explained in the teachings of Jesus Christ and His example.
How can anyone say all of the laws, 611 I believe, are to be followed when Christ has terminated the laws of the Temple, the priest hood, living in the earthly Israel, dietary and all that do not fall under the tenants of mercy, justice and faith?
When we break one, we are "covered" by the grace clause of the new covenant, the Blood that gives us salvation.
The wisdom of the Ten is just this, they cannot be reversed or ignored by any in good conscience in the sight of God, thus while Jesus taught His ¨Good News, He also stressed obeying them.
Too many folks who think they believe in grace only are setting up their own set of rules which are worse than the law for they did not come from God, they came from doctrines of man converted ind their minds as commandment of God. His commandments are wise, man's are foolish.
It is not good to teach or even to hint against the Commandments, never.
Those laws that hang on the laws of love are explained in the teachings of Jesus Christ and His example.
How can anyone say all of the laws, 611 I believe, are to be followed when Christ has terminated the laws of the Temple, the priest hood, living in the earthly Israel, dietary and all that do not fall under the tenants of mercy, justice and faith?
When we break one, we are "covered" by the grace clause of the new covenant, the Blood that gives us salvation.
The wisdom of the Ten is just this, they cannot be reversed or ignored by any in good conscience in the sight of God, thus while Jesus taught His ¨Good News, He also stressed obeying them.
Too many folks who think they believe in grace only are setting up their own set of rules which are worse than the law for they did not come from God, they came from doctrines of man converted ind their minds as commandment of God. His commandments are wise, man's are foolish.
It is not good to teach or even to hint against the Commandments, never.
Jesus, while giving the Good News to the Jews, taught that to be doing the works of God we should obey the Ten, as He advised the rich man who was wrapt in his material being.
It is certain, He is God, that because of what H already knew His mission was, that He also, knowing the hearts of men, knew that no man could follow the law perfectly when He advises to do the 10, but He still teaches to follow them
No man will ever o anything by the law to be saved, this goes without saying, yet so many say anyway.
Now that we all are saved by grace only, so we say teh 10 are evil? Do we deem the 10 as foolish? No, the wisdom about which this OP is, is always in the 10.
Our new nature rejoices that we know they are wise and good. Our new man rejoices that he is sved by grace only, but also our new man will be moved by the Holy Spirit to good works afforded him by God, whatever they may be, for no man can truly say he has the gift of faith without some external manifestation(s) of it. True, some may appear not to be doing good works, but this is appearance only. God know who is and who is not.
Many folks believe, wrongly, that when a person mentions good works it is mentioned as something to save oneself. This is simply not possible. Good works are the fruit of the Holy Spirit, thus being they fruit is from God..we should never assume it to be from our wisdom or will. It is God's will, and we are just availing ourselves to Him as servants of the Most High God.
The law, as taught by Jesus Christ, will never be invalidated as long as there are sun, moon and earth, as teaches Jesus Christ, but the lawful manner in understanding and sharing it must be learned from His Gospel. The law truly is holy and good, but it has had its understanding without the veil of Moses given to us by our Lord.
I cannot fear the law's sting, death, ever, for it cannot have hold on me because I am saved by the Blood of the Lamb, Yeshua. Yet by the new understanding of it with mercy, justice, and faith (as teaches our Lord), I know the wisdom it contains.
Too many set themselves up as lawyers (grace only folks) teaching how the law is not and setting up new rules based on doctrines of men. This should not be so. The law must be understood anew b ecause of Jesus Christ, because of the grace we live in now because of the gift of faith given by the Father Who is the One Who draws all to Jesus Chrsit.
When a believer goes through the law and says one is no longer valid, he should know from Jesus Christ for without this understanding, that person has bcome a lw of laws unto himself, above God, and this should not be so.
I love the law as taught by God, not by men. If I say to another a specific law is not longer in effect, I know why from God, not from some doctrine I have conceived.
One thing I will say to all about the Ten is simple, do not teach against them for this is teaching against God's will and His wisdom, after all wisdom is from Him.
God bless all who live in the grace of the Lamb.
It is certain, He is God, that because of what H already knew His mission was, that He also, knowing the hearts of men, knew that no man could follow the law perfectly when He advises to do the 10, but He still teaches to follow them
No man will ever o anything by the law to be saved, this goes without saying, yet so many say anyway.
Now that we all are saved by grace only, so we say teh 10 are evil? Do we deem the 10 as foolish? No, the wisdom about which this OP is, is always in the 10.
Our new nature rejoices that we know they are wise and good. Our new man rejoices that he is sved by grace only, but also our new man will be moved by the Holy Spirit to good works afforded him by God, whatever they may be, for no man can truly say he has the gift of faith without some external manifestation(s) of it. True, some may appear not to be doing good works, but this is appearance only. God know who is and who is not.
Many folks believe, wrongly, that when a person mentions good works it is mentioned as something to save oneself. This is simply not possible. Good works are the fruit of the Holy Spirit, thus being they fruit is from God..we should never assume it to be from our wisdom or will. It is God's will, and we are just availing ourselves to Him as servants of the Most High God.
The law, as taught by Jesus Christ, will never be invalidated as long as there are sun, moon and earth, as teaches Jesus Christ, but the lawful manner in understanding and sharing it must be learned from His Gospel. The law truly is holy and good, but it has had its understanding without the veil of Moses given to us by our Lord.
I cannot fear the law's sting, death, ever, for it cannot have hold on me because I am saved by the Blood of the Lamb, Yeshua. Yet by the new understanding of it with mercy, justice, and faith (as teaches our Lord), I know the wisdom it contains.
Too many set themselves up as lawyers (grace only folks) teaching how the law is not and setting up new rules based on doctrines of men. This should not be so. The law must be understood anew b ecause of Jesus Christ, because of the grace we live in now because of the gift of faith given by the Father Who is the One Who draws all to Jesus Chrsit.
When a believer goes through the law and says one is no longer valid, he should know from Jesus Christ for without this understanding, that person has bcome a lw of laws unto himself, above God, and this should not be so.
I love the law as taught by God, not by men. If I say to another a specific law is not longer in effect, I know why from God, not from some doctrine I have conceived.
One thing I will say to all about the Ten is simple, do not teach against them for this is teaching against God's will and His wisdom, after all wisdom is from Him.
God bless all who live in the grace of the Lamb.
I think the misunderstanding of this whole question and suggestion to reverse the "Thou shalts" was not clear. At least I didn't understand. If you would have given us an example of what you meant that may have really clarified it better.
Which leads me to believe that is why you got the kind of responses you got. From your replies it is obvious that you are a believer in Christ and were never implying that we are to follow the law for our salvation.
We've all heard that we should personalize the scriptures to help give us even deeper insight like instead of saying, "Love is patient, love is kind..." to say instead "I am patient, I am kind..." If this is what you kind of meant to do, would give me an example of what you meant to reverse it - it sure would help me understand and for the others who misunderstood what you wrote. Thanks!
Which leads me to believe that is why you got the kind of responses you got. From your replies it is obvious that you are a believer in Christ and were never implying that we are to follow the law for our salvation.
We've all heard that we should personalize the scriptures to help give us even deeper insight like instead of saying, "Love is patient, love is kind..." to say instead "I am patient, I am kind..." If this is what you kind of meant to do, would give me an example of what you meant to reverse it - it sure would help me understand and for the others who misunderstood what you wrote. Thanks!
The instructions are clear. It matters not how it is worded, certain legalists, when they hear the word, law, just to the 611 without reading nor giving heed to the (a) post on this subject.
Keep in min the OP is asking people to try reversing the shalts to shalt not and the shalt nots to shalt in order to clearly see the wisdom of God in His instruction to His children-+
You need more than this, just for you, here is one of the ten reversed, "Thou shalt covet."Now is there wisdom in this, not at all, however though shalt not covet is wisdom in action.
Keep in min the OP is asking people to try reversing the shalts to shalt not and the shalt nots to shalt in order to clearly see the wisdom of God in His instruction to His children-+
You need more than this, just for you, here is one of the ten reversed, "Thou shalt covet."Now is there wisdom in this, not at all, however though shalt not covet is wisdom in action.
When you say 'the Ten', do you mean the ten selected from Exodus 20 or those selected from Deuteronomy 5?
Considering the lesson in Mark 12;
28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?
29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
One can't help but find it curious why the first two Commandments often cited by Christian denominations are given as the following;
Which seems pretty obvious that the two accounts of the Ten are two different accounts of the Ten.
In addition to Exodus 20 nor Deuteronomy 5 not containing the first Commandment cited by Jesus in Mark 12, neither passage makes any representation the statutes and judgments given therein are even commandments in the sense of being the Ten eternal Commandments.
And God spake all these words, saying, I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
Exodus 20:1-2
And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.
Deuteronomy 5:1
One might considering reading Deuteronomy 6.
Considering the lesson in Mark 12;
28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?
29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
One can't help but find it curious why the first two Commandments often cited by Christian denominations are given as the following;
I
I am the LORD your God, which have brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondade. Ye shall have no other gods before me.II
Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me, and shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.Which seems pretty obvious that the two accounts of the Ten are two different accounts of the Ten.
In addition to Exodus 20 nor Deuteronomy 5 not containing the first Commandment cited by Jesus in Mark 12, neither passage makes any representation the statutes and judgments given therein are even commandments in the sense of being the Ten eternal Commandments.
And God spake all these words, saying, I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
Exodus 20:1-2
And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.
Deuteronomy 5:1
One might considering reading Deuteronomy 6.
It seems we have lawyers discussing the wisdom, spreading a view of the law with the veil of Moses strongly in place..
Please remove the veil, believe Jesus chrsit. This OP is not to be another legailist-grace-only/ grace debated. We are not searching for laws, we are going for the appreciation of the law under the auspices of mercy, justice and faith. As Jesus teaches us to do.
Please remove the veil, believe Jesus chrsit. This OP is not to be another legailist-grace-only/ grace debated. We are not searching for laws, we are going for the appreciation of the law under the auspices of mercy, justice and faith. As Jesus teaches us to do.
Sin = transgression of the Law
Righteousness = perfect obedience to the Law.
Adam sinned and Jesus obeyed.
Righteousness by faith through grace = salvation.
Perfect obedience to the law by faith in God's grace. = Salvation
The law points out that we are sinners and unrighteous but do we throw away the law to fix this problem.
If the Law that condemned us as sinners was nailed to the cross than everyone after the cross has never sinned.
How are you classed as a sinner today?
Rom_4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
Grace and the law are not against each other. Is Paul saying that grace makes the law void, or is grace there to cover us when we do sin?
Rom_5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
Rom_6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Just because Jesus has kept the law perfectly for us and grace is more abundant, we don't have a license to sin, or throw away the perfect law that is holy, just, good and spiritual Rom 7:12,14.
Can we uphold what is perfect and holy not to be saved but because it is the perfect standard of righteousness? Can we obey the law because we want to reflect the character of Jesus (not as a burden or to be saved but because we love Jesus)?
1Jn_5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
Righteousness = perfect obedience to the Law.
Adam sinned and Jesus obeyed.
Righteousness by faith through grace = salvation.
Perfect obedience to the law by faith in God's grace. = Salvation
The law points out that we are sinners and unrighteous but do we throw away the law to fix this problem.
If the Law that condemned us as sinners was nailed to the cross than everyone after the cross has never sinned.
How are you classed as a sinner today?
Rom_4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
Grace and the law are not against each other. Is Paul saying that grace makes the law void, or is grace there to cover us when we do sin?
Rom_5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
Rom_6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Just because Jesus has kept the law perfectly for us and grace is more abundant, we don't have a license to sin, or throw away the perfect law that is holy, just, good and spiritual Rom 7:12,14.
Can we uphold what is perfect and holy not to be saved but because it is the perfect standard of righteousness? Can we obey the law because we want to reflect the character of Jesus (not as a burden or to be saved but because we love Jesus)?
1Jn_5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
Our righteousness is Christ dwelling in us.
Sin will always be transgressing the law.
We are seen as sin-free because of Jesus dwelling in us, with the guilt of any future transgression not held against us.
The op deals with the wisdom of God's will, not whether or not anyone is under the law.
All who believe Jesus Christ will obey His teaching as well as they are given power and self-control to do so, knowing when they slip up, and we all do, we are forgiven .
Do not teach or even approach suggesting others deliberately disobey the law, for Jesus teaches otherwise.
Good is good all of the time. kWe know in our attempting to be obedient we always rest on mercy, but this rest given us by the death of our Salor is no excuse not to follow Christ's example as well as we agre given.
I m not under the law , though it seems all who wish this not be brought up are under the new law they have created for they tend to accuse, and oft times condemn any who act as children of obedience, as even the Epistles teach we should be.
Sin will always be transgressing the law.
We are seen as sin-free because of Jesus dwelling in us, with the guilt of any future transgression not held against us.
The op deals with the wisdom of God's will, not whether or not anyone is under the law.
All who believe Jesus Christ will obey His teaching as well as they are given power and self-control to do so, knowing when they slip up, and we all do, we are forgiven .
Do not teach or even approach suggesting others deliberately disobey the law, for Jesus teaches otherwise.
Good is good all of the time. kWe know in our attempting to be obedient we always rest on mercy, but this rest given us by the death of our Salor is no excuse not to follow Christ's example as well as we agre given.
I m not under the law , though it seems all who wish this not be brought up are under the new law they have created for they tend to accuse, and oft times condemn any who act as children of obedience, as even the Epistles teach we should be.
Through the new birth it is in my new nature (no one has to instruct me) to do what is right. The Law (10) stand as a confirmation of what God has already wrought in me.
The problem arises when my flesh (old nature) tries to lure me away from what is now 2nd nature.
Gal. 5:17 For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do.
Gal. 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
The problem arises when my flesh (old nature) tries to lure me away from what is now 2nd nature.
Gal. 5:17 For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do.
Gal. 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
I have shared many quotes of the Word with just as much seemingly support of many of my own posts, and all scripture is faluable for understanding, however I resort to sharing understanding from the Word derived from the Word.
I know we are saved by grace and grace only, but the term grace only here does not apply to many of the grace only folsk who seem to think there is not a response out of love for salvation exhibited y good works given by God,, Himself.
This is by no means earning salvation it is just demonstrating tthe teaching that faith without good works is no faith at all, and we all know faith has led us to grace.
I believe my immediate previous post is most explicit on the subject.
I do not believe any of the grace only folks are not my brethren, but I do believe anyone teaching against the law as Christ teaches it is goind to have an eternal reminder of having done so come the Kingdom.
People say that He was talking to the Jews, yet they also know Jesus came to save His own people first. Now if He came to save HIs own people first they were hearing His gospel, for there is only one gospel of Jesus Christ.
I know when, as some love to rely upon, He spoke to the Jews, He was teaching the same gospel to them as He gave to us all, and when He taught them He taught them all I have been sharing, and that is to be as much like Christ as God gives us to be, knowing any prfection of ourselves is the work of God working in us, and not our own. He will finish that perfection on His Day. Meanwhile we are to do and not just say grace...........Grace shows by our reaction to the Love that gives us grace. God is love, amen.
I know we are saved by grace and grace only, but the term grace only here does not apply to many of the grace only folsk who seem to think there is not a response out of love for salvation exhibited y good works given by God,, Himself.
This is by no means earning salvation it is just demonstrating tthe teaching that faith without good works is no faith at all, and we all know faith has led us to grace.
I believe my immediate previous post is most explicit on the subject.
I do not believe any of the grace only folks are not my brethren, but I do believe anyone teaching against the law as Christ teaches it is goind to have an eternal reminder of having done so come the Kingdom.
People say that He was talking to the Jews, yet they also know Jesus came to save His own people first. Now if He came to save HIs own people first they were hearing His gospel, for there is only one gospel of Jesus Christ.
I know when, as some love to rely upon, He spoke to the Jews, He was teaching the same gospel to them as He gave to us all, and when He taught them He taught them all I have been sharing, and that is to be as much like Christ as God gives us to be, knowing any prfection of ourselves is the work of God working in us, and not our own. He will finish that perfection on His Day. Meanwhile we are to do and not just say grace...........Grace shows by our reaction to the Love that gives us grace. God is love, amen.