The "Rapture"?

[DP]

Do you have any proof?

Ezek 13:6-8
6 They have seen vanity and lying divination, saying, 'The LORD saith': and the LORD hath not sent them: and they have made others to hope that they would confirm the word.


7 Have ye not seen a vain vision, and have ye not spoken a lying divination, whereas ye say, 'The LORD saith it'; albeit I have not spoken?


8 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye have spoken vanity, and seen lies, therefore, behold, I am against you, saith the Lord GOD.
KJV


Ezek 13:18-23
18 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe to the women that sew pillows to all armholes, and make kerchiefs upon the head of every stature to hunt souls! Will ye hunt the souls of My people, and will ye save the souls alive that come unto you?


19 And will ye pollute Me among My people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, by your lying to My people that hear your lies?


20 Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.


21 Your kerchiefs also will I tear, and deliver My people out of your hand, and they shall be no more in your hand to be hunted; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.


22 Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life:


23 Therefore ye shall see no more vanity, nor divine divinations: for I will deliver My people out of your hand: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
KJV




John 10:12-13
12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.


13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.
KJV

 

[Chuckt]

Ezek 13:6-8
6 They have seen vanity and lying divination, saying, 'The LORD saith': and the LORD hath not sent them: and they have made others to hope that they would confirm the word.


7 Have ye not seen a vain vision, and have ye not spoken a lying divination, whereas ye say, 'The LORD saith it'; albeit I have not spoken?


8 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye have spoken vanity, and seen lies, therefore, behold, I am against you, saith the Lord GOD.
KJV


Ezek 13:18-23
18 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe to the women that sew pillows to all armholes, and make kerchiefs upon the head of every stature to hunt souls! Will ye hunt the souls of My people, and will ye save the souls alive that come unto you?


19 And will ye pollute Me among My people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, by your lying to My people that hear your lies?


20 Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.


21 Your kerchiefs also will I tear, and deliver My people out of your hand, and they shall be no more in your hand to be hunted; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.


22 Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life:


23 Therefore ye shall see no more vanity, nor divine divinations: for I will deliver My people out of your hand: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
KJV




John 10:12-13
12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.


13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.
KJV

Sounds like it came from the dead heretic Arnold Murray of Shepherd's Chapel who didn't believe in the Trinity and had a host of other hangups.

 

[presidente]

The pre-trib rapture is a cult that began in 1830's Britain by Edward Irving and John Darby. Prior to that there was no pre-trib rapture idea ever taught in the Christian Church.

The early 1st/2nd century Church fathers held to a post-trib coming of Christ to gather His Church prior to the Millennium.

From what I've read neither Edward Irving, the church he pastored, or the 'Catholic Apostolic Church' movement led by Drummond and those other men believed in the pre-trib rapture. The version of the Margaret McDonald prophecy I read seemed to support the pre-trib rapture view. I suspect Darby was more reactionary against Irving's group in some of his beliefs than in favor of them.

The 'Catholic Apostolic Church' movement were millenarians, believing the millenium was yet to be fulfilled, but I don't think they thought of the millennium in the same was most pre-mil do.

 

[Ahwatukee]

God is my Rock, I put my faith in Him and His Son. No need to be a survivalist, the actual time of deliverance and testing is going to be very short. You'd know about that if you were staying in His Word instead of being busy idolizing men's traditions.

No need to be a survivalist, the actual time of deliverance and testing is going to be very short.

I'm afraid that your are very mistaken regarding what you think you know about the time of God's wrath and the severity of it. Therefore, for all of you who think that the gathering of the church is synonymous with the Lord's return to the earth to end the age, allow me to list the events of God's wrath that the church would have to go through in order to be gathered at that time, that is, those who would still be alive, if any!

1ST Seal/White Horse: The emergence of the antichrist who will make war and conquer the great tribulation saints and be given authority over every nation, tribe, people and language. And who will require everyone to receive his mark which without no one will be able to buy or sell i.e. no one will be able to perform crediting or debiting to their bank accountes.

2nd Seal/Red Horse:Takes peace from the earth so that mankind slays one another. He's give a large sword which means that his campaign is world-wide. I don't believe that this will be restricted to just armies, but to people in general.

3rd Seal/Black Horse: World-wide famine. That the rider has a pair of scales demonstrates the need to accurately weigh of food in times of scarcity/famine. The mention of A quart of wheat for a denarius, and three quarts of barley for a denarius demonstrates a days wages for a small amount of food. Again, this demonstrates scarcity of food and therefore, famine.

4th Seal/Pale Horse: Death and Hades are give power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine, plague and wild beasts of the earth. The 4th is a culmination of the the previous seals and the result is a fourth of the inhabitants of the earth will die from those plagues mentioned. Based on 7 billion people, a fourth would equal 1.75 billion people.

Seals 5, 6 and 7: These do not appear to be plagues which produce any fatalities.

1st Trumpet: A third of the earth is burned up, a third of the trees. The underlying question is, if a third of the earth is being burned up, how many fatalities will result from this? For there is no way that third of the earth and a third of the trees can be burned up without there also being fatalities involved. So this a large unknown number.

2nd Trumpet: An asteroid or another object hits in one of the oceans resulting in a third of the creatures in the ocean being killed and a third of the ships are destroyed. The reason for their destruction will be due to the gigantic 1500 ft plus waves and the energy that will be dispersed throughout that entire body of water created by that object hitting in the ocean. How many people will be on those ships? Every city, town and community that is exposed to that body of water will be completely destroyed! Not to mention all of the cities, towns and communities 50 to 100 miles inland. How many fatalities would that be? Again, this is an unknown large number of fatalities.

3rd Trumpet: An object like a torch falls on a third of the rivers and fresh drinking water, which contaminates a third of the water, the result being that many people will die from drinking the water. How many fatalities is that? Again, a large unknown number of fatalities.

4th Trumpet: A third of the sun, moon and stars are struck so that they are darkened by a third. The result being that the earth will be missing a third of its normal light both day and night. There appear to be no fatalities associated with this trumpet. I personally believe that this trumpet is setting the stage for the following three trumpets which are referred to as woes.

5th Trumpet/1st Woe: A star/angel opens the Abyss and releases demonic beings that have tails and stings like scorpions who are not given power to kill the inhabitants of the earth, but only to torment them for 5 months with stings like that of a scorpion. There are no fatalities associated with this trumpet, but only torment. These demonic beings have a king over them who is the angel of the Abyss, which is that beast who comes up out of the Abyss, kills the two witnesses, takes control of the antichrist and stands in the temple proclaiming himself to be God.

6th Trumpet/2nd Woe: Four angels who have been bound at the great Euphrates River are released to kill a third of mankind. When they are released they immediately go and gather an army of 200 million demonic beings, I believe they gather them from the Abyss that will have been opened at the previous trumpet. Unlike the 5th trumpet, their main purpose will be to kill a third of the inhabitants of the earth. With just the 4th seal and this 6th trumpet, the fatalities would be approx.4.5 billion people and that's not counting trumpets 1,2 and 3 or the bowl judgments. Are you now getting an idea of the severity of God's wrath now?

7th Trumpet/3rd Woe: Satan and his angels are thrown out of heaven and restricted to the earth. Rejoice you heavens and those who dwell in it. But WOE to the inhabitants of the earth, for the devil has gone down to you and is full of wrath. There are no fatalities mentioned here and no way to know how many there will be. With Satan and his angels no longer allowed in heaven and restricted to the earth, they will be able to focus all of their malice and evil upon the inhabitants of the earth.

1st Bowl: Ugly painful sores break out on those who have the mark of the beast. No fatalities are mentioned at this bowl judgment.

2nd Bowl: The worlds oceans are turned to literal blood. All of the creatures in the sea die.

3rd Bowl: All fresh water is turn to literal blood. No drinking water. And if God does it the same way as he did with Moses and the Nile, all of the bottled water in all of the warehouses will also be turned to blood. No drinking water! Also, because of the 2nd bowl, desalination will not be an option.

4th Bowl: The 4th angel pours out his bowl upon the sun and the sun will be give power to scorch the inhabitants of the earth with fire and intense heat. Fatalities from this is unknown!

5th Bowl: The 5th bowl is poured out throne of the beast, and his kingdom was plunged into darkness. People gnawed their tongues in anguish and cursed the God of heaven for their pain and sores. They did not repent of their deeds.

6th Bowl: The great river Euphrates is dried up to make way for the kings of the east. And those spirits of demons go and gather the kings of the earth to Armageddon for that final battle where they will all be killed by the doublle-edged sword that proceeds out of the mouth of the Lord, which is symbolic for the word of God.

7th Bowl: he seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and out of the temple came a loud voice from the throne, saying, “It is done!” This completes completes God's wrath. The result of this judgment is the greatest earthquake to take place since mankind has been on the earth, which results in the cities of the nations collapsing and the mountains and the islands no longer being found, huge hail stones weighing 75 to 100 pounds each will fall upon the inhabitants of the earth. And they cursed God on account of the plague of hail, because the plague was so terrible. How many fatalities will result from the earthquake and the hail?

Now, you have people on this forum who have been teaching that God is going send his church through all of that! His church whom Jesus has rescued from the coming wrath and that we are not appointed to suffer. Keep in mind that Jesus is the One opening the seals, which leads into the trumpets, which leads into the bowl judgments i.e. He is the one treading out the wine-press of the wrath of God almighty!

This is the wrath of God that is coming and the church will be removed prior to these plagues of wrath!

 

[DP]

Sounds like it came from the dead heretic Arnold Murray of Shepherd's Chapel who didn't believe in the Trinity and had a host of other hangups.

So says the false Jew deceiver like yourself.

 

[DP]

From what I've read neither Edward Irving, the church he pastored, or the 'Catholic Apostolic Church' movement led by Drummond and those other men believed in the pre-trib rapture. The version of the Margaret McDonald prophecy I read seemed to support the pre-trib rapture view. I suspect Darby was more reactionary against Irving's group in some of his beliefs than in favor of them.

The 'Catholic Apostolic Church' movement were millenarians, believing the millenium was yet to be fulfilled, but I don't think they thought of the millennium in the same was most pre-mil do.​

EDWARD IRVING IS UNNERVING​

 

[DP]

I'm afraid that your are very mistaken regarding what you think you know about the time of God's wrath and the severity of it.

How would you know, you are too busy pushing the pre-trib rapture doctrines of men instead of heeding God's Word as written.

I've already established per other threads that you don't even know 'the day of The Lord' Bible events only occur on the last day of this world when you instead try to move that timing back to before the trib!

 

[garee]

Now, you have people on this forum who have been teaching that God is going send his church through all of that! His church whom Jesus has rescued from the coming wrath and that we are not appointed to suffer. Keep in mind that Jesus is the One opening the seals, which leads into the trumpets, which leads into the bowl judgments i.e. He is the one treading out the wine-press of the wrath of God almighty!

This is the wrath of God that is coming and the church will be removed prior to these plagues of wrath!

Hi Ahwatukee .

My two cents...

The wrath of God which is being revealed as that which has continually been revealed from the beginning, when he subjected this creation to corruption. (aging, decaying, leading toward death).

So I would suggest it is not something that will be revealed when the church is no longer here but is revealed as the same that has been revealed from the fall..

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

It would seem that you are following what some call dispensationalism as if God worked in the heart man other than by purifying their hearts by a work of His faith in any time period. The wrath of God as the final comes on the last day the seventh trumpet. The church is shown as part of the tribulation all the way to the end of the book of Revelation.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Hi Ahwatukee .

My two cents...

The wrath of God which is being revealed as that which has continually been revealed from the beginning, when he subjected this creation to corruption. (aging, decaying, leading toward death).

So I would suggest it is not something that will be revealed when the church is no longer here but is revealed as the same that has been revealed from the fall..

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

It would seem that you are following what some call dispensationalism as if God worked in the heart man other than by purifying their hearts by a work of His faith in any time period. The wrath of God as the final comes on the last day the seventh trumpet. The church is shown as part of the tribulation all the way to the end of the book of Revelation.

Hello garee,

That is not the same wrath that is coming. The wrath that is coming will be via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, which will be initiated by the Lamb, for he is the one who will be opening the seals, which lead into the trumpets, followed by the bowl judgments. The wrath of God that being revealed that you are speaking of is in regards to those who worship created things more than the creator, where God gives them over to there depraved sexual desires. The wrath that is coming is not the same. What is coming is the day of the Lord.

 

[DP]

Hi Ahwatukee .

My two cents...

The wrath of God which is being revealed as that which has continually been revealed from the beginning, when he subjected this creation to corruption. (aging, decaying, leading toward death).

So I would suggest it is not something that will be revealed when the church is no longer here but is revealed as the same that has been revealed from the fall..

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

It would seem that you are following what some call dispensationalism as if God worked in the heart man other than by purifying their hearts by a work of His faith in any time period. The wrath of God as the final comes on the last day the seventh trumpet. The church is shown as part of the tribulation all the way to the end of the book of Revelation.

Dispensationalism is... pre-trib rapturism prettty much, since Darby was the mainstay behind both doctrines in the 1830's.

Ahwatukee doesn't understand what is the 'wrath' Paul was talking about in 1 Thess.5, because he is wrongly taught per pre-trib it is Satan's time of wrath during the tribulation as per Darby's false pre-trib rapture teachings.

The wrath event Paul was speaking of in 1 Thess. 5 that we are not appointed to is about God's wrath upon the wicked on the 'day of the Lord' timing at the end of the tribulation. That's the timing in 1 Thess.5 that Apostle Paul established early in that chapter.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Dispensationalism is... pre-trib rapturism prettty much, since Darby was the mainstay behind both doctrines in the 1830's.

Ahwatukee doesn't understand what is the 'wrath' Paul was talking about in 1 Thess.5, because he is wrongly taught per pre-trib it is Satan's time of wrath during the tribulation as per Darby's false pre-trib rapture teachings.

The wrath event Paul was speaking of in 1 Thess. 5 that we are not appointed to is about God's wrath upon the wicked on the 'day of the Lord' timing at the end of the tribulation. That's the timing in 1 Thess.5 that Apostle Paul established early in that chapter.

Never read anything by Darby and No, the wrath that we are not appointed to suffer are the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. As I continue to telling you guys, it is because you don't understand that the wrath that is coming is by God's hand.

 

[John146]

According to your theory, are Christians going to have to keep from getting the mark of the beast? Is this something we should worry about? Or will we be supernaturally protected somehow?

Dispensationalism is... pre-trib rapturism prettty much, since Darby was the mainstay behind both doctrines in the 1830's.

Ahwatukee doesn't understand what is the 'wrath' Paul was talking about in 1 Thess.5, because he is wrongly taught per pre-trib it is Satan's time of wrath during the tribulation as per Darby's false pre-trib rapture teachings.

The wrath event Paul was speaking of in 1 Thess. 5 that we are not appointed to is about God's wrath upon the wicked on the 'day of the Lord' timing at the end of the tribulation. That's the timing in 1 Thess.5 that Apostle Paul established early in that chapter.

 

[Ahwatukee]

According to your theory, are Christians going to have to keep from getting the mark of the beast? Is this something we should worry about? Or will we be supernaturally protected somehow?

Did you read what happens to the great tribulation saints because of their testimony of Jesus and the word of God and because they will not worship the beast, his image nor receive his mark?

"And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

If the church were here, the same thing would happen to them, that is, if they were here, which they won't be.

 

[DP]

Never read anything by Darby and No, the wrath that we are not appointed to suffer are the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. As I continue to telling you guys, it is because you don't understand that the wrath that is coming is by God's hand.

Proof of what I said before, Ahwatukee doesn't understand the timing Paul was speaking here:

1 Thess 5:1-4
5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.


2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.


3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.


4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
KJV

The 'day' Paul is speaking of is the 'day of the Lord' timing, which per 2 Peter 3:10 is when the elements of man's works are burned off the surface of this earth on the day of Jesus' coming to gather His Church. It is the day all the prophets agree that ushers in the day of Christ's literal reign on earth over all nations.

This is why Paul reminds them about Christ's servants, children of the day, are not appointed to that wrath those drunken in the night will receive, but instead are appointed to live with Jesus when that 'day of the Lord' timing begins at His return:

1 Thess 5:9-10
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,


10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.
KJV

 

[John146]

Who's the crowd in Revelation 20:4? "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

And Revelation 14:12? "Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus."

Proof of what I said before, Ahwatukee doesn't understand the timing Paul was speaking here:

1 Thess 5:1-4
5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.


2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.


3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.


4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
KJV

The 'day' Paul is speaking of is the 'day of the Lord' timing, which per 2 Peter 3:10 is when the elements of man's works are burned off the surface of this earth on the day of Jesus' coming to gather His Church. It is the day all the prophets agree that ushers in the day of Christ's literal reign on earth over all nations.

This is why Paul reminds them about Christ's servants, children of the day, are not appointed to that wrath those drunken in the night will receive, but instead are appointed to live with Jesus when that 'day of the Lord' timing begins at His return:

1 Thess 5:9-10
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,


10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.
KJV

 

[DP]

Is this the day of God's wrath Paul was speaking of in 1 Thess.5?

Rev 16:12-21
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

No. That's the timing of Satan's wrath during the trib. Those events align with the 6th trumpet - 2nd woe events in Rev.9 thru 11:14. The plagues upon the beast during those first 5 vials isn't the wrath Paul was pointing to in 1 Thess.5 either, because Paul linked the 'day of the Lord' timing with the wrath he was speaking of:




15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.


That's our Lord Jesus still warning His Church on earth that He comes "as a thief". It means His coming to gather His Church has not happened yet at this point. He comes on the final 7th Vial to gather us, and that's when He pours out His cup of wrath upon the wicked, which is the wrath Paul was talking about in 1 Thess.5:


16 And He gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.


17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.


18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.


19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
(KJV)

 

[John146]

Are you saying that puts the Church going through Satan's wrath?

Is this the day of God's wrath Paul was speaking of in 1 Thess.5?

Rev 16:12-21
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

No. That's the timing of Satan's wrath during the trib. Those events align with the 6th trumpet - 2nd woe events in Rev.9 thru 11:14. The plagues upon the beast during those first 5 vials isn't the wrath Paul was pointing to in 1 Thess.5 either, because Paul linked the 'day of the Lord' timing with the wrath he was speaking of:




15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.


That's our Lord Jesus still warning His Church on earth that He comes "as a thief". It means His coming to gather His Church has not happened yet at this point. He comes on the final 7th Vial to gather us, and that's when He pours out His cup of wrath upon the wicked, which is the wrath Paul was talking about in 1 Thess.5:


16 And He gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.


17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.


18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.


19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
(KJV)

 

[popeye]

Never read anything by Darby and No, the wrath that we are not appointed to suffer are the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. As I continue to telling you guys, it is because you don't understand that the wrath that is coming is by God's hand.

Under their own logic,the flying scorpions are just some minor tribulation during Gods wrath because they came from hell and God is only indirectly involved.

So now their post trib double minded doctrine has a two part wrath. Pre scorpion and post scorpion,since the scorpions are not wrath.

 

[popeye]

Did you read what happens to the great tribulation saints because of their testimony of Jesus and the word of God and because they will not worship the beast, his image nor receive his mark?

"And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

If the church were here, the same thing would happen to them, that is, if they were here, which they won't be.

Funny thing is,they see themselves in the GT,being chase by the AC bogeyman hiding in bombed out buildings and such.

AS DEPICTED IN THE LEFT BEHIND MOVIES THEY DESPISE.

LOL. OMG....SO COMICAL

 

[DP]

Are you saying that puts the Church going through Satan's wrath?

Yes. Christ's Church will... suffer Satan's wrath as written, which is what the trib is about.'

Rev 12:7-9
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
KJV

Rev 12:11-12
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
KJV



Rev 12:13-17
13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
KJV